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 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Remember in the old west, attitudes being what they were

anybody in the least Asian would have been labled a heathen chinese (well worse probably) and discriminated against accordingy

ending up in the same ghetto part of town (or more likely tented camp). If that Japanese or Korean or whoever had skills usefull to the gang they would be used (if they didn't end up dead)

This is kind of what I was trying to get at .. In 1980 in the middle of a gold rush town full of outlaws.. would your average gunslinger know the difference between Chinese, Japanese, Korean or Vietnamese? I dunno maybe I'm wrong, I just kind a felt like they'd be a minority and the townsfolk would lump them all together as one big group of "orientals" and they'd all be in 1 part of town sticking mostly to themselves.

The samuari idea might be a little to much, I agree. but, I had a fan request that so I thought I'd look into it. I was going to have him be a bounty hunter actually... his father was murdered by an outlaw years ago, and all he has left of him are the swords he used to carry.

The Meiji restoration had created many broke samurais, with nothing more than their weapons and an inkling of family honour, at best. They would be very good bounty hunters, biter enough not to care about their mark.

>In 1980

You mean 1890?

>would your average gunslinger know the difference between Chinese, Japanese,

No - but there would be no Japanese there. At all.
Until Meiji, Japan was a closed country - and almost no one emigrated.
One single individual might in some strange way have ended up in this town and in a gang - but giving him samurai gear and abilities would be as if you added a Viking (with horned helmet?) to a Scandinavian gang.

>Korean

... and the Koreans had almost no formal martial arts training whatsoever until around 1930 - and certainly no katana-shaped weaponry.
This despite some recent claims (look up the term "Koreating history".
I.e. your sword wielding hero really ought to be a true chinese - with floppy swords and all
No place for katanas in the US (atleast not until WW2 soldiers had plundered Japan).

>The samuari

You mean samurai, samuari is not a word.

>...idea might be a little to much...

Yes.

>... but, I had a fan request ...

So anything goes if you are a fan?
Can I have a Zulu Warrior in a gang?

>... his father was murdered by an outlaw years ago, and all he has left of him are the swords he used to carry.

And the Zulu warrior can carry the lion loin cloth, the zebra pelted shield and short spear of his father?



Sorry for sounding so harsh - but I really think you are on the wrong path here, leaving a somewhat realistic setting for the sake of introducing "cool" elements.

I am a Japan-nerd - and feel sad whenever the real history is raped (like in "The Last Samurai"-film and the whole Ninja myth).


By all means, add a Japanese delegation from the Meiji court (in time realistic formal english long coats and top hats)
- but please at least consider staying away from stuff that might sell well (such as samurai, pirate zombies and bare chested ladies) but would ruin the feel of your game.

Just my two Yen of wisdom (?).

(and I am still going the buy the gang - even if it gets "Samuraiified".

2 yen don't buy much, even these days. 20 years of economic stagnation will do that to your economy.

Matthews showed up in Japan in 1852-ish, and the restoration was in 1868 onward... so a destitute heir could make sense. And since it was the US that shook them out of it, they could have emigrated there. I'm just saying. Don't impose a whole cultural trope on every individual.

Although a proper Japanese gang would be nice. You could have the front of long coats, top hats and white gloves, but with the back end of seedier, poorer individuals.

>Although a proper Japanese gang would be nice. You could have the front of long coats, top hats and white gloves, but with the back end of seedier, poorer individuals.

I would definitely buy it.
Hopefully without shuriken, ninjas or tengu though

Well, if a fan tosses an idea at me that I like, chances are I'm gonna run with it .. he just did a bunch of work for me, 1 less thing for me to come up with :p

Really though .. it's a historical setting, but I think of it as more like a hollywood action movie than a history lesson (because I don't know enough about history to teach anyone anything). Blackwater Gulch is a fictional place, and pretty much everything in my head about the town comes from movies like Tombstone, and the game red dead redemption. In fact that game is pretty much what gave me the whole idea for BWG in the first place

But I see what you're saying... I won't let it get too far fetched (until the skinwalkers, chupacabras and jackalopes show up in the boxed game next year :p). there will be some in normal western dress in the gang too, gotta have the San Fransisco C---sucka in there somewhere....

So on the topic of not getting too far fetched, here's some early sketches for the Flying Zarconis (and I just realized none of them are actually flying...)



I know they don't look too "westerny" .. gonna be toning down the color, since I don't think clowns were so colorful back then, more like normal dress but with clowny makeup. Each professional in the gang will be like a main act kind of performer, but all the henchmen will be clowns. The leader will be Mario Zarconi, a little person based on Sansom from the show Carinvalle. I'd like to get a mystic kind of character in there too, like a fortune teller.

The other 2 new gangs will be more normal a US army themed gang and a gang of all girls, but gunslinger types not saloon girls.

If we get enough unlocked to get to the next 4 new gangs, there will be a sort of mafia kind of gang that controls the gambling in town, a mexican army gang of federales, a gentleman's club that's all rich guys who hunt lowlifes for sport, and a western version of the crew from Firefly (another fan suggestion :p) .. will give me an excuse to watch the series again, for research of course...

I'd be in on the all-girl (getting Dusty Paige anyhoo), the japanese gang (no ninjas, kendoka was right about this one, it'd spoil it) and the FIREFLY CREW!!!

This is full of win. And with my gaming group, the amount of minis makes them affordable gifts so I can pass the virus along and I don't end up with their 100 models-army in my painting queue.

Cool, I'm confident we'll be able to unlock all the new gangs. After that I'm hoping we can get enough to do plastic horses, then we'll start doing alt sculpts of all of the leaders and professionals with them on horseback.

Got lots of bonus figures planned, most are based on different movie characters.

The circus gang is meant to be more of a comical kind of gang, but hopefully won't be too over the top.. like the orcs & goblins of the game.. since in the grim darkness of the wild west, there is only stuff painted brown and gray.

hmm.. just noticed my sig banner is pretty old.. guess I should add my own models to it one of these days...

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Remember in the old west, attitudes being what they were

anybody in the least Asian would have been labled a heathen chinese (well worse probably) and discriminated against accordingy

ending up in the same ghetto part of town (or more likely tented camp). If that Japanese or Korean or whoever had skills usefull to the gang they would be used (if they didn't end up dead)

As logical as that sounds, that in no way makes it accurate or even fairly plausible. Chinese, Japanese and Korean immigrants would never mix in any sort of likely history.

I just read the rules. It scratches my Mordheim itch very, very nicely.

I hope we do get ongoing experience rules. Just don't jump the shark (Amazon warbands spring to mind)

I like the Secret Fist concepts so far...might pick it up.

History stuff is noted. I do want to at least kinda follow the real thing, so I'll ensure that future characters have a more Chinese feel. That said though, I do want it to be a fictional game, more hollywood than history.. but I still want it to feel authentic. I know I can't make everyone happy, but I'll try my best

There will be a few that are in normal western clothing too, a couple of dusters or suits thrown in, for San Francisco Man at least

The mini sized rulebook we're doing now is mostly "just the rules" kind of like the small rulebooks that the WFB and 40K starter sets have, and I'll be updating the optional campaign rules PDF pretty soon. I'd say probably around this time next year after the game has been out a while and it's more established (so there's lots of content) we'll start doing a full sized hardback rulebook full of fluff and cool art, modeling guides, etc. Rules won't really change though, so if you have but then we'll also do a 2 player starter set that will have the small sized rulebook in it.

Imho, I don't think the hardback edition absolutely needs to be a goal. Don't get me wrong, I love books, they make me feel good when I am surrounded by them. But it is quite an investment, and Mordheim, BFG, Necromunda... they never had a hardback, and they failed more because of a lack of support rather because the book was meh.

Read through the rules saturday. Simple, no fuss. Easy to learn and fast to play. This'll be great for my ATP friends (Acute Time Poverty).

I'm really itching to buy some mdf buildings now. Von Skyfury showed me his Sarissa built models and the quality was impressive. I think I'm done with my old foamcore buildings. They had a good run, but I need to move on to better toys.

Personally I love hard cover rules.

Which the creator then signs... with my name in the back.

I am such a pride whore.

Hardback rulebook won't be in this Kickstarter.. that's just something I want to get to eventually, and hopefully release without needing a Kickstarter anymore when the time comes.

I like the wood buildings a lot too, I think I like Battle Flag's the best, they have a lot of detail. The ginormous hotel might be pricey but I think their smaller buildings are a good price.

We're finalizing the details for the new sets now. Currently we were planning for 4 new gangs, then 3 3-man add on packs for each gang, then 4 more new gangs. Decided to just get all the new gangs done first, and drop 2 of the later gangs so we'll start with 6. The 2 new ones will be the Dockside Gang who are kind of a bunch of drifters that settled along the river and that's their turf, and often have run-ins with the river boat Tranquility's crew

Currently going to be something like this...

Dockside Gang

Dr. B.N. Belfree (Leader) Doctor, Smith & Wesson Revolver, Winchester Repeater, Large Axe
Chinco Benito Jose Martinez Valdez (Aka Paco) - Bounty Hunter, Colt .45, Remington Rolling Block Rifle & Machete
Tennessee - Gunslinger, Colt .45, Remington Rolling Block Rifle & Bowie Knife
Eddie Escobar - Henchman, Volcanic Pistol, Tomahawk
Mongo - Henchman, 2 hatchets & throwing knives

Tranquility Crew

Captain Nathan Reynolds (Leader) - Gambler with colt 45 & 2 Bowie Knives
Dr. Simon - Doctor with Derringer Pocket Pistol & Bowie Knife
Adam James - Bounty Hunter with Colt 45, Rolling Block Rifle & Long Barrel Shotgun
Zoe Blackburn - Henchman with 2 Smith & Wesson revolvers
Julie, Ship's Mechanic - Henchman with large wrench (counts as miner's pick), volcanic pistol

Zoe not packing a sawn off repeater? Shame!

Tranquility Crew.... squee!

Might move Zoe over to be a Gunslinger in one of the support packs, and have Father Sheppard take her place for the starter set... don't know what kind of weapons he'd have though :/

We're going to launch with the original 4 gangs though, and these last 2 will be for stretch goals to add next

 Necros wrote:
Might move Zoe over to be a Gunslinger in one of the support packs, and have Father Sheppard take her place for the starter set... don't know what kind of weapons he'd have though :/

Non-Combatant? Give him Healing/Morale boosting abilities instead?

Yeah I was thinking of something like that. We have Dr Simon as the healer, and if he was just a morale booster he would only matter if your gang is running away, otherwise he'd be useless and probably an easy target. I think I'd at least have to give him a shotgun or something, just because the game is all about shootouts.

Had another idea though of using this gang to introduce new professions that weren't going to be featured until the big boxed game next year, but they could kind of bridge the gap.

Engineers who can fix broke machines and invent different weapons like gatling pistols. Preacherman who can be a morale booster. Monster hunters who get bonuses to hit supernatural things. Supernatural things that get +1 HP if they take someone out of action.

Book used a gun or two in the series, he just didn't shoot to kill.

Yes, and he knew way more about combat, etc, than a Shepherd should... It is certainly in character for him to be combat savvy. I could see him using just about any weapon.

Cool, that could work then .. rewatching the show now, been so long since I've seen it, even the movie is on SyFy like every other day. Never read any of the comics.. but I'll eventually need some other characters besides the main crew. Each gang is planned to have 14 members, a starter set of 5 and then 3 3-man support packs... eventually.

Hmm, yeah, you already have "James" as a gun heavy character in the starter, so Zoe may be a little redundant. The Pastor would offer a good opportunity to do something different, maybe.

The Shepherd was the "soul" of the crew, so I could see him giving a morale boost. He also always seemed to supply some critical info on jobs, whether about weapons, strategy, knowing of Niska, being able to show his ID to the Alliance and get supplies.... Is there any way he could buff his gangmates? Give them a strategic advantage? Go first bonus or something?

As for others, you must include Badger with his very fine hat. Saffron/Yolanda/Bridget would be great, and I also like the bounty hunter Jubal Early... He was terrifying.

Edit - forgot a critical point...

As far as shepherd, I think he could be a very dynamic character for you. First, have him "mooch" a weapon off of one of the other starting on the board characters in his gang, then, instead of inflicting damage, any hits (etc) cause knockouts or pinning to use non-BWG terms.

Also, instead of providing stat boosts, have his "inspiration" give a random gangmember an extra action in the turn. Also, it can't be the same gangmember in back-to-back turns.

$.02

@ Necros You really should find the comics, or read a wiki with the spoilers. Book has an awesome history, IMO.

Shepherd should get "Mysterious Backstory" type bonus, not necessarily morale boosting.
He seemed to be the guy who came up with exactly what they needed when they needed it most, whether that was a spiritual thing, or a physical one.
In one of the comics, he is the distraction during the heist, and the getaway driver after.
So he could affect the game like the advisors for IG.
Maybe not contributing to the damage output directly, but giving some kind of blanket bonus?
At the very least, he could do "non-lethal" damage of some type.

Also, I second Zoe getting a repeating sawn-off. It's all I remember her ever using.

I can't wait to see the "Wash" model, with his special rule "Witty Réparté" Oh, and "River's" "What the hell just happened to me" move in close combat.

hmm .. yeah I'll have to think on it a while. Starting to feel like this gang won't really fit the template I set up (but that doesn't mean I won't make it :p ) where basically everyone but the leader is just like the characters that could be in any other gang.. similar weapons, skills and stats, but it's the leader that defines what special ability everyone in the gang gets. But then, everyone on the crew is someone special, and it kinda feels wrong to make any of them just be generic henchmen.. but every gang needs henchmen

Well if they are worth more Fame each, you'll never field the whole crew, someone needs to mind the shop and such, so it'd be down to choices.

Maybe offer them only as 3-men packs? Capn Reynolds as a single mini for KS contributors?

I think I got em planned out now mostly.. I'll do the whole crew, and then mix in a few side characters, even if they were enemies. Could do saffron, the captain's ex-wife, jayne's ex-partner with the big beard (stitch?), mr. universe as a telegraph operator who hopes to never get killed with a sword, and badger who hopes to never become a lawyer in BSG or the king of hell in Supernatural.

For sheppard, I think I'll have him be a preacher which was one of the professions that will get added in the expansion next year.. and these guys probably won't be made and released for a while anyway since everything takes so long, so it could fit.

So I think the starter would be Not-Mal, Not-Jayne, Not-Simon, Not-Kaylee and Not-Inara. The other 3 professionals for the rest of the gang will be Not-Book, Not-River as a wrassler and Not-Zoe as a gunslinger.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, for something different.. been kicking around more ideas for the gatling gun.

Was thinking, it would have the shooty stats I was talking about before, but I'm thinking about having it cost 50xp, and have it in place of one of the henchmen in the starter set. It would have stats like any other model, so it could be destroyed, but since there were no robots in the wild west it would still require a gunner to shoot it. So the ranger starter set would be 4 men and 1 gatling gun. So this would mean 1 less model shooting, but one gun that could essentially hit everything in a 12" circle. This would also help keep the retail cost more in line with the other sets too.

And to keep every gang from having a gatling gun, was going to add the rule that you need 10 models in your gang for every 1 piece of artillery. But Sergeant Wilde's special gang ability would be that if he's the leader, the 10 model minimum is waived, but you still need 20 if you want to add a second one. I kinda doubt there will be many games that big, but ya never know...