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Akragth wrote:

david choe wrote:
OR
The get a black smith to reforge the blade on the stick to make a spear or just twist the blade from the scythe on the scythe handle to cut better like in all the movies. The blade is not even set like in the movies and the blade is thin. Too thin as a weapon. If you have to reforging ability and to remove all this crap.... it is better to get a long stick and sharpen the point. Come on man...

Lol. You're ignoring the ''improvised'' part of improvised weapon, again. You're talking on the subject as if they lived in some sort of ideal world where every attack came with warning, where every peasant had the means to reforge weapons, had access to a range of tools or could afford/had access to better weaponry. They didn't. That's the ideal world, but reality is something else entirely.

You are taking the fact it would be a poor weapon and, without any real evidence to support it, conferring that the idea of it ever being used as a weapon is a myth. Before you say ''watch the video'' again, no. Not only does your video not disprove the notion that it was ever used as a weapon, the bloke who made it wasn't around in medieval times, so it's only his speculation to begin with. You cannot, and have not, proved anything on the matter.

Indeed, mere common sense would suggest that if needs must, you'd use whatever was at your disposal to defend yourself, whether that's taking one item you own and using it to create another, or just using the item itself. Would it be an ideal weapon? No. Improvised weapons rarely are. But would you go bare knuckle because your brother took the pitchfork, and you're left with just the scythe? Nope. Poor weapon or not, it is better than punching an armed opponent. At the very least it can keep them at arm's length.

It is a hollywood myth and comic book of grime reaper that make this soooo cool and scary weapon what it is today.

Seriously, your comprehension is sorely lacking if you believe anyone here is arguing that farmers were armed with the weapon that the grim reaper uses.

LOL.. ok this is getting silly and childish and a bit juvenile. I feel you are being defensive because you feel your pride is at stake or something. Like I stated before you are not a scythe manufacture... who cares..???

Your belief is based on hollywood and Grim reaper and because this myth has been around for so long that you even assume as fact because of the grim reaper and hollywood. It is ok man... I thought so too. Up until 10 years ago... when I saw a scythe in a farm and I pick it up... I was like WTF... I can not swing this as a weapon at all. The blade is thin. Real Thin! Next, the blade is not even parallel to the handle. It is set on the other side. What this means is for it to murder somebody, the blade would have to be remove and set as a spear or parallel to the stick. This modification is what hollywood and internet like you assume was the WAR SCYTHE. you even show me the BS picture of the Polish troops with War scythe, which was debunk by the video. IN other words... there were never a modification for war at all. This again is a myth of farmer modifying their scythe to be a pole weapon. The debunk stated that if you can modified that much, you might as well just modified other sharper thicker blade to the pole. You might as well go get the same stick that you are about to modified and sharpen the point and is easier to use and deadly than that paper thin blade for cutting Wheat! You understand right that the blade is very thin and light. You think a farmer has the strength to use that Wheat cutting instrument blade if it were as heavy as an axe head? They use the scythe all day long to cut freaking wheat. The blade is paper thin and light.

Think about it... what evidence do you have? You only have the common sense assumption that farmer would use it and that is it. NO historical ever mention that farmers use them. It would mention that in history somewhere.... Example... The Khmer rouge used farming equipment such as sickle and tools such as Sledge hammer to execute their prisoner because it is cheap and use no bullets. It was documented. Sickle is useful in a fight, a farmer scythe is impossible to use in a fight at all. It has the same usefulness in battle as taking a wood chair from their house as a weapon. You can't swing with a scythe other than sweeping side to side to cut wheat.

The evidence of that manuscript was debunk by the guy also. Use your common sense to decide the evidence for yourself and get your pride out of the way.

In short, show your self the poof of this. Ask yourself why do I belief that farmer use them as weapon. Guarantee because of Grim Reaper and hollywood.

BTW - The grim reaper scythe doesn't exist in real life. Real scythe blade is not parallel like the reaper. Real scythe blade is paper thin and design to cut wheat! The depiction of grim reaper is a thick solid blade that can cut.

War Scythe has the same name as scythe. Anybody who ever mentioned that War scythe was a farming scythe that was modified do not know anything of that pole weapon. The war scythe was a pole weapon with real war blade and that blade was never a farm tool stuck on. War Scythe is like War hammer or War Axe. None of those weapons were farming tools that was modify to become a weapon. It was made as weapon from scratch.....

Don't be embarrass because most of us felt for the hollywood and grim reaper too.

Go see a real farm scythe.

Pick up a farm scythe.

Look around the farm that you got the farm scythe. I guarantee that there are more useful murdering tools you can use from.

The so called "war scythes" used by Polish peasants were in fact converted farm tools. Being peasants chased by the government, they did not have the raw resources to make weapons from scratch and thus reforged their existing scythe blades into improvised spears. It is a rather simple operation: you just need to straighten out the tang so it is attached with the point up rather than sideways.
Also, provide more evidence than uncredible youtube videos of guys that speculate without producing evidence.
If you want to gain some real knowledge about the use of scythes in war, I suggest you get of youtube and start reading literature about peasant uprisings, particularly those in Poland.

david choe wrote:
Your belief is based on hollywood and Grim reaper and because this myth has been around for so long that you even assume as fact because of the grim reaper and hollywood.

Firstly, what? Secondly...what?

My belief is based on the fact that you'd use whatever means you could obtain to defend yourself. What you wrote is conjecture, and it's a rather juvenile attempt to put words in my mouth.

It is ok man... I thought so too. Up until 10 years ago... when I saw a scythe in a farm and I pick it up... I was like WTF... I can not swing this as a weapon at all. The blade is thin. Real Thin! Next, the blade is not even parallel to the handle. It is set on the other side. What this means is for it to murder somebody, the blade would have to be remove and set as a spear or parallel to the stick. This modification is what hollywood and internet like you assume was the WAR SCYTHE. you even show me the BS picture of the Polish troops with War scythe, which was debunk by the video. IN other words... there were never a modification for war at all. This again is a myth of farmer modifying their scythe to be a pole weapon. The debunk stated that if you can modified that much, you might as well just modified other sharper thicker blade to the pole. You might as well go get the same stick that you are about to modified and sharpen the point and is easier to use and deadly than that paper thin blade for cutting Wheat! You understand right that the blade is very thin and light. You think a farmer has the strength to use that Wheat cutting instrument blade if it were as heavy as an axe head? They use the scythe all day long to cut freaking wheat. The blade is paper thin and light.

I didn't post any picture of anything. So...

And you didn't debunk anything. There was speculation, talk of how poor it's be as a weapon and nothing much else. Proof that the idea they were ever used as weapons is a myth? Nope. Not even vaguely.

Think about it... what evidence do you have? You only have the common sense assumption that farmer would use it and that is it. NO historical ever mention that farmers use them. It would mention that in history somewhere.... Example... The Khmer rouge used farming equipment such as sickle and tools such as Sledge hammer to execute their prisoner because it is cheap and use no bullets. It was documented. Sickle is useful in a fight, a farmer scythe is impossible to use in a fight at all. It has the same usefulness in battle as taking a wood chair from their house as a weapon. You can't swing with a scythe other than sweeping side to side to cut wheat.

Evidence? It's your claim that the whole thing is a myth, the onus is on you to prove it never happened. You haven't. You instead focus on how it'd be a last resort, a fact that literally nobody has argued against. But a last resort isn't the same as a myth, so...

The evidence of that manuscript was debunk by the guy also. Use your common sense to decide the evidence for yourself and get your pride out of the way.

What manuscript? I don't even...

And common sense? Common sense says that peasants would use whatever they could. Lol. Pride? I mean, I gave you the benefit of the doubt with it being a language issue, but it's starting to look like something else. Stop trying to distract from the point with obscure conjecture.

In short, show your self the poof of this. Ask yourself why do I belief that farmer use them as weapon. Guarantee because of Grim Reaper and hollywood.

Uh, because if it's scythe or nothing, then it's scythe. same as I said how many times?

Don't be embarrass because most of us felt for the hollywood and grim reaper too.

Again, nobody is talking about a reaper scythe, or hollywood. Just, well...you. It's another juvenile attempt to belittle others, frankly based on nothing but your own imagination.

Go see a real farm scythe.

Pick up a farm scythe.

Look around the farm that you got the farm scythe. I guarantee that there are more useful murdering tools you can use from.

I already explained this. Re-read what has already been said.

Clearly your arguments hinge on the fact that you ignore (repeatedly) what is said, hide behind a video you found and then cover up your shortcomings by putting words in people's mouths, whilst simultaenously accusing them of being childish. Long story short? Believe what you want. You're clearly happy with your version of history. But stop acting like you're some authority who can dispell widely accepted facts, because you're not.

Akragth wrote:

Think about it... what evidence do you have? You only have the common sense assumption that farmer would use it and that is it. NO historical ever mention that farmers use them. It would mention that in history somewhere.... Example... The Khmer rouge used farming equipment such as sickle and tools such as Sledge hammer to execute their prisoner because it is cheap and use no bullets. It was documented. Sickle is useful in a fight, a farmer scythe is impossible to use in a fight at all. It has the same usefulness in battle as taking a wood chair from their house as a weapon. You can't swing with a scythe other than sweeping side to side to cut wheat.

Evidence? It's your claim, that the whole thing is a myth. The onus is on you to prove it never happened. You haven't. So...

It's impossible to prove a negative. I think he's right on this one, that if you think it was used as a weapon you would need to provide evidence.

 Steve steveson wrote:
It's impossible to prove a negative. I think he's right on this one, that if you think it was used as a weapon you would need to provide evidence.

No, I don't, because I haven't said with certainty they were. I'm not going to try and state what happened across hundreds of years of history without a weight of evidence to back it up. Infact, on the contrary my objection is to stating--stating, not speculating--that they weren't used like that, that they were a myth, when nothing shown so far has actually proven that.

I said they may have been, and gave some scenarios where it may have happened. In my opinion, like any improvised weapon, odds are it probably happened at some point.

Now, because he stated that it's a myth the onus was on him to prove it as a fact, but that simply hasn't been shown. All he's proven so far was that they'd be poor weapons, but to stretch that to ''they were never used, and that's a myth'' is to stretch it a tad too far.

I think if a peasant had no choice, they could get one good swing in with a scythe, then take the weapon from his attacker. Would it be able to be used in a whole battle? No, but in a pinch its better then your fists. And no, I don't own one, but I have been around them. Wouldn't be my first choice unless it was already handy.

 Artorias the Abysswalker wrote:
Interesting, I was thinking about this, does anyone have knightly roots, or is descended from a medieval order?

I've done extensive research of my family history, and one of my forbearers on my mother's side, fought in Maximillian I's army and was knighted after a skirmish. We even have our own coat of arms for House Grama - a golden sun on a purple field, and our motto is "We stand fast".

Sadly, at my current state I would mayhaps be equivalent to a merchant's son and might have a glimmer of hope, that I might be a squire and not go to battle with a pitchfork

My oldest brother did some research and found our family tree can go back into the Saxon era of Briton. But that was about all he could find, nothing in top of that. So it's possible as our family is old, but nothing showed up to say other wise.

david choe wrote:
LOL.. ok this is getting silly and childish and a bit juvenile.

Only for the last 17 or so pages.

 n0t_u wrote:

david choe wrote:
LOL.. ok this is getting silly and childish and a bit juvenile.

Only for the last 17 or so pages.

We are a silly bunch. Come on man.. arguing about weapons from 100s years back and playing with toys .... it seems normal that is out come exist.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Inquisitor Lord Bane wrote:
I think if a peasant had no choice, they could get one good swing in with a scythe, then take the weapon from his attacker. Would it be able to be used in a whole battle? No, but in a pinch its better then your fists. And no, I don't own one, but I have been around them. Wouldn't be my first choice unless it was already handy.

Yes, that is my point.... if it was in my hand and here comes trouble...ok

But this improvise myth..... is that trouble is coming or we are going to go look for trouble... go grab a handy tools to fight....

OK... lets see my farm handy tools to fight... axe... nah... pitch fork...nah....Kitchen knife..nah.
Hey look at that scythe.. Grim reaper and death uses it... I'm going to pick that up because it is freaking scary looking and the blade is very long I can only sweep it side to side but.. what the heck. The guy might not see me coming and I sweep at this legs.. yeah.. then kill him and take his weapon.

You know what I mean.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Akragth wrote:

 Steve steveson wrote:
It's impossible to prove a negative. I think he's right on this one, that if you think it was used as a weapon you would need to provide evidence.

No, I don't, because I haven't said with certainty they were. I'm not going to try and state what happened across hundreds of years of history without a weight of evidence to back it up. Infact, on the contrary my objection is to stating--stating, not speculating--that they weren't used like that, that they were a myth, when nothing shown so far has actually proven that.

I said they may have been, and gave some scenarios where it may have happened. In my opinion, like any improvised weapon, odds are it probably happened at some point.

Now, because he stated that it's a myth the onus was on him to prove it as a fact, but that simply hasn't been shown. All he's proven so far was that they'd be poor weapons, but to stretch that to ''they were never used, and that's a myth'' is to stretch it a tad too far.

That is why I said you're thinking this because of movies and drawing of fantasy art and the Reaper.

Anything and everything has been use as a murdering tools in the history. I wouldn't group scythe, brass candle holder, or a stone bust of venus as a weapon.

david choe wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:

david choe wrote:
LOL.. ok this is getting silly and childish and a bit juvenile.

Only for the last 17 or so pages.

We are a silly bunch. Come on man.. arguing about weapons from 100s years back and playing with toys .... it seems normal that is out come exist.

Don't call me man and I was referring to the clear bias earlier.
But there's not really an overall superior sword anyway and to think a farmer wouldn't toss together a weapon or use some more sinister looking tools.

As for the scythe, doesn't mean no one used a scythe as a weapon, just it's not a very good weapon. There is the possibility the blade may have been a bit better than it is now, but the issue was the blade's position in the first place.

However how many farmers are going to be aware that their scythe is not a good weapon? They were stupid and untrained.

david choe wrote:
That is why I said you're thinking this because of movies and drawing of fantasy art and the Reaper.

Nobody except you talked about that. I, for one, was definitely talking about the farming tool.

Anything and everything has been use as a murdering tools in the history. I wouldn't group scythe, brass candle holder, or a stone bust of venus as a weapon.

So what this boils down to is you not understanding what an improvised weapon is. They're items which aren't designed as weapons, but which can be used as weapons--usually in desperation, which is what I have stated. You cannot definitively say they were never used as improvised weapons. You can say they'd be a poor one, you can say you'd be an idiot to use it, you can even speculate that they probably weren't often used as a weapon, but the point I was making is that that's not the same thing as them being used as a weapon being a myth. To call it a myth, by its very definition, is to say that it's false, that it never happened. You cannot state that with certainty, and that's my objection.

Akragth wrote:

david choe wrote:
That is why I said you're thinking this because of movies and drawing of fantasy art and the Reaper.

Nobody except you talked about that. I, for one, was definitely talking about the farming tool.

Anything and everything has been use as a murdering tools in the history. I wouldn't group scythe, brass candle holder, or a stone bust of venus as a weapon.

So what this boils down to is you not understanding what an improvised weapon is. They're items which aren't designed as weapons, but which can be used as weapons--usually in desperation, which is what I have stated. You cannot definitively say they were never used as improvised weapons. You can say they'd be a poor one, you can say you'd be an idiot to use it, you can even speculate that they probably weren't often used as a weapon, but the point I was making is that that's not the same thing as them being used as a weapon being a myth. To call it a myth, by its very definition, is to say that it's false, that it never happened. You cannot state that with certainty, and that's my objection.

I think we all know that you are backtracking here... but whatever.

Anything can be an improvised weapon in that case but how come we are not talking about chairs, iron pans, or a pencil?

I am here to debunk the scythe as a myth. I didn't believe this after 10 years ago when I pick one up and try it. I researched it. Today somebody here mentioned the scythe and war scythe again, ... I pointed out it was a myth. I show 2 videos of this guy proofing a very valid point.

You are the one who is disagreeing with me. Now you are backtracking. If the rarity of scythe was use as a murdering tools.... then there should not ever be a discussion about scythe as a weapon. It is as stupid as talking about "I heard that a guy was killed by a stone statue bust of Venus" and talk about it as a weapon.

No doubt that many of you thought it was a common farm weapon in history because of Grim Reaper and hollywood and just hated the fact that I debunk it. LOL

Scythe fanbois??????

Okay..... This has gotten weird over the last few pages.

Firstly: I am a Blacksmith. I am also trained with a number of weapons, including the Bastard Sword and the Glaive. I am also trained to fight in armour.

Ill start with the first part: The Katana is inferior to other blades. No question. I am planning to craft swords for myself and my friends based upon our fighting styles: I am making myself a Bastard Sword and a Short sword, my first best friend has requested a Norse hand axe and a sword made specifically to a set of specifications that is difficult to provide here, my second best friend has requested a paired set of Long/Broad swords - he is naturally ambidextrous and is learning how to dual wield. He intends to have his primary sword slightly longer, and he can also use it with a shield. Now, one of my friends has no formal or informal training. All his experience comes from watching films, youtube videos and playing games. he is the only one whom has said he would take the katana as his first choice. Hell, even my ex preferred the Norse hand axe. This should tell you something.

As for control: With my Bastard sword I can vary the blow from a devastating hit that will rip you open, unless you are wearing plate armour, to a delicate sweep that just catches your throat with the very tip of the blade and rips it out. I can aim a hit at a specific weakpoint on full plate and expect to hit it.
Curved blade or no, my Bastard sword still has superior cutting power to the Katana.


Now, as for these Warscythes, well, they did exist. They where, as others here have cited, a viable peasant weapon that could be used in a time of war. The blade of the scythe was taken and rotated through 90 degrees and re-mounted on the shaft. This allowed the scythe to be used as a primitive form of halberd and if I remember rightly the halberd actually evolved from the warscythe. Either that or another polearm did.

Out of curiosity, what happens if you forge a katana with superior materials, other than the traditional pig iron?

 master of ordinance wrote:
Okay..... This has gotten weird over the last few pages.

Firstly: I am a Blacksmith. I am also trained with a number of weapons, including the Bastard Sword and the Glaive. I am also trained to fight in armour.

Ill start with the first part: The Katana is inferior to other blades. No question. I am planning to craft swords for myself and my friends based upon our fighting styles: I am making myself a Bastard Sword and a Short sword, my first best friend has requested a Norse hand axe and a sword made specifically to a set of specifications that is difficult to provide here, my second best friend has requested a paired set of Long/Broad swords - he is naturally ambidextrous and is learning how to dual wield. He intends to have his primary sword slightly longer, and he can also use it with a shield. Now, one of my friends has no formal or informal training. All his experience comes from watching films, youtube videos and playing games. he is the only one whom has said he would take the katana as his first choice. Hell, even my ex preferred the Norse hand axe. This should tell you something.

As for control: With my Bastard sword I can vary the blow from a devastating hit that will rip you open, unless you are wearing plate armour, to a delicate sweep that just catches your throat with the very tip of the blade and rips it out. I can aim a hit at a specific weakpoint on full plate and expect to hit it.
Curved blade or no, my Bastard sword still has superior cutting power to the Katana.


Now, as for these Warscythes, well, they did exist. They where, as others here have cited, a viable peasant weapon that could be used in a time of war. The blade of the scythe was taken and rotated through 90 degrees and re-mounted on the shaft. This allowed the scythe to be used as a primitive form of halberd and if I remember rightly the halberd actually evolved from the warscythe. Either that or another polearm did.

Look at this video and tell me how he is not debunking this myth of scythe. I 'm tire of explaining to the same people that always disagreeing with me... so I rather have you list the disagreement of the video... I don't want to list all of his valid points

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_endKNXkdOY

david choe wrote:
I think we all know that you are backtracking here... but whatever.

Well, I started off saying they were a possible improvised weapon, and I'm still saying that they were a possible improvised weapon, so unless backtracking means something else to you then...no.

Anything can be an improvised weapon in that case but how come we are not talking about chairs, iron pans, or a pencil?

Because nobody said they've never been used as a weapon (because nobody is stupid enough to make such a claim, I daresay)? And because, if they did, examples can be given of them being used as an improvised weapon. Almost anything can be used to injure, or kill. Which by no small coincidence, is what the word weapon means:

weapon
noun
: something (such as a gun, knife, club, or bomb) that is used for fighting or attacking someone or for defending yourself when someone is attacking you.

The scythe can be used to injure, and it can be used to kill. Which means, that by the very definition of the word, it can be used as a weapon.

Now whether it ever was or not? You cannot prove it wasn't with certainty. Therefore you can only speculate. That's not debunking anything, that's giving your opinion. The very same thing the rest of us are doing (despite you trying to look down on us for doing so).

Scythe fanbois??????

Aaaand back to the depths of pettiness you plunge. I can see your mentality here, and to be honest it's not reflecting well on you. Since this isn't going anywhere, because you're convinced your opinion should be seen as fact, I'll not bother responding further unless something new comes up. I'd rather suggest you do the same, though in truth I doubt you will.

Akragth wrote:

david choe wrote:
I think we all know that you are backtracking here... but whatever.

Well, I started off saying they were a possible improvised weapon, and I'm still saying that they were a possible improvised weapon, so unless backtracking means something else to you then...no.

Anything can be an improvised weapon in that case but how come we are not talking about chairs, iron pans, or a pencil?

Because nobody said they've never been used as a weapon (because nobody is stupid enough to make such a claim, I daresay)? And because, if they did, examples can be given of them being used as an improvised weapon. Almost anything can be used to injure, or kill. Which by no small coincidence, is what the word weapon means:

weapon
noun
: something (such as a gun, knife, club, or bomb) that is used for fighting or attacking someone or for defending yourself when someone is attacking you.

The scythe can be used to injure, and it can be used to kill. Which means, that by the very definition of the word, it can be used as a weapon.

Now whether it ever was or not? You cannot prove it wasn't with certainty. Therefore you can only speculate. That's not debunking anything, that's giving your opinion.

Scythe fanbois??????

Aaaand back to the depths of pettiness you plunge.

Oh... I understand now....

I heard that in a parallel universe, some guy name Mortarion was famous for using Scythe.

Another famous entity name Grim Reaper carry one too. Oh Father time too. Lets see who els....oh yeah in the 6th planes of hell... the Bones Devil use them often too.

I am sorry that I was wrong to forget those entity used scythe. Oh yeah, and a farmer name Steve and Jack killed a english solider in the 15th century... so I must retrack that Scythe were used as a killing weapon.

What is the matter... when everybody was so anti Katana and try to make a comedy out of it... was ok.. now you can't take it? It was all fun and games until the joke is on you right?

Why are you trolling the forum?

david choe wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
Okay..... This has gotten weird over the last few pages.

Firstly: I am a Blacksmith. I am also trained with a number of weapons, including the Bastard Sword and the Glaive. I am also trained to fight in armour.

Ill start with the first part: The Katana is inferior to other blades. No question. I am planning to craft swords for myself and my friends based upon our fighting styles: I am making myself a Bastard Sword and a Short sword, my first best friend has requested a Norse hand axe and a sword made specifically to a set of specifications that is difficult to provide here, my second best friend has requested a paired set of Long/Broad swords - he is naturally ambidextrous and is learning how to dual wield. He intends to have his primary sword slightly longer, and he can also use it with a shield. Now, one of my friends has no formal or informal training. All his experience comes from watching films, youtube videos and playing games. he is the only one whom has said he would take the katana as his first choice. Hell, even my ex preferred the Norse hand axe. This should tell you something.

As for control: With my Bastard sword I can vary the blow from a devastating hit that will rip you open, unless you are wearing plate armour, to a delicate sweep that just catches your throat with the very tip of the blade and rips it out. I can aim a hit at a specific weakpoint on full plate and expect to hit it.
Curved blade or no, my Bastard sword still has superior cutting power to the Katana.


Now, as for these Warscythes, well, they did exist. They where, as others here have cited, a viable peasant weapon that could be used in a time of war. The blade of the scythe was taken and rotated through 90 degrees and re-mounted on the shaft. This allowed the scythe to be used as a primitive form of halberd and if I remember rightly the halberd actually evolved from the warscythe. Either that or another polearm did.

Look at this video and tell me how he is not debunking this myth of scythe. I 'm tire of explaining to the same people that always disagreeing with me... so I rather have you list the disagreement of the video... I don't want to list all of his valid points

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_endKNXkdOY

Stop posting that video, it does not prove anything, as that guy presents about just as much evidence as you do. None.
On the other hand, the use of scythes in war is a commonly known fact that is well documented by both historical and contemporary literature and backed up by artwork from the period and even photographs for later periods. Get og Youtube, as you will never find any knowledge there. Go read some proper literature and if you find anything out there that proves that scythes were never reforged into improvised weapons, come back and let us know.


And a second thing for which you have been ridiculed: that Grim Reaper you keep bringing up. The use of a scythe by the Grim Reaper is symbolic, he harvests souls like a farmer harvests grain. It has nothing to do with the use of a scythe as a weapon. The Grim Reaper does not need a weapon, he is Death. Death does not need to reforge his scythe into a shabby improvised spear to stop a cavalry charge, he has nothing to do with the use of scythes in combat.

Iron, trying to reason with this person is like trying to reason with you over matters Putin*.

*You know the spirit this is posted in.

 Grey Templar wrote:
As a merchant, I would probably have the following, assuming late/mid middle ages.

Weapons

1) Polearm of some kind as my primary weapon
2) Warhammer, axe, or pick as a backup weapon(swords are expensive)
3) Crossbow

Armor

Chainmail leggings and sleeves, padded doublet, cheap breastplate, metal greaves, and a simple metal helm. Along with a shield, likely reinforced hardwood.

If I'm richer than average I might be able to afford a horse and better armor. And after any battles I've got my eye open for any better equipment off the dead.

Wussies. I want a wagon full of cross bows and wiener dogs with tiny schiltrons. We'll form our own tercio of biting/shooting goodness!

Dog mounted crossbow, you say?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSXsLAzX9cc

look how cool this guy are using this scythe. Holy crap check out how easy it would be to fight with them. OMG, Farmers must have trained this weapon.

Oh you mean this kind of scythe... like the kind grim reaper used.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djQh-7b0Fn8

But what is really good for is this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzmrLFHRaTY

Pitch fork or just a stick would be better to fight with right?

 Artorias the Abysswalker wrote:
Interesting, I was thinking about this, does anyone have knightly roots, or is descended from a medieval order?

I wouldn't need to murder too many people to be a Silesian count with roots going back to the Teutonic order. Though this is a maternal lineage from my fathers mothers kin in Germany. The rest of me is English, and if you go back a very long way Welsh and very likely through genetic markers Roman. It is not a stretch tom imagine some of my ancestors were 'Arthurian' but as ancestry is an ever widening shotgun effect, especially for the trader and nobility classes and others who moved about that geneology is anything but special.

My father also has a worn brass ring passed along one of our maternal lines which is a bastard ring of the Duke of Montroses get. It's so worn it has no identifying stamp anymore, it was important to the generations of bastard ancestors who wore it sometime in the 18th century though. I have legitimate noble connections by marriage, but not ancestry also from my mothers side.

My paternal ancestry, in fact from father to eldest son goes back to some important people in English history, at the time of the Commonwealth and the family then had a lot of clout, but weren't nobles and ultimately were on the wrong side of history after the Restoration. My direct ancestor was a trusted companion of Oliver Cromwell.

I think the Dacians would like to join your little scythe party.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falx
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dacian_warfare

The Romans were particularly nervous of the two handed falx which could go through their armor without difficulty. Apparently they made special armor for it.

david choe wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:


Special bonus

Got medieval?

Agricultural tools as weapons and exotic armament in the 16th century:


These guys just didnt mess about.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Artorias the Abysswalker wrote:
Nice! It just didn't look practical to me at first.

Speaking of practical weapons - morning star flail - cool looking. Practical? Maybe on horseback, but definitely not on foot. Also, did knights use their lances in open combat, or were they mostly used for jousting?

Flails CAN be practical, but they do have downsides... 1. you have to use it's momentum. 2. it's only really good use is as a "disarming weapon", which leads to 3. You still need other weapons to fight.

Posted as you were typing also, the video posted just now of exotic weapon plays includes flail plays. Enjoy.

The farm tool scythe as a weapon is a myth. That freaking thing is almost impossible to use in combat. You have better chance at wining combat with a iron pan.

david choe, not to call you out as someone on the wrong side of the evidence AGAIN but... The link given was for 16th century handbook of fighting techniques, not stills from a fantasy RPG. i.e you are flatly going against historical evidence right in front of your face.

Now if the guys in the later medieval are have a how to guide for fighting with the sickle and the scythe, it meant there was a fighting style for fighting with those weapons. As the plays are very simple its likely to be a primer on improvised weaponry, along the grounds that sickles and scythes are sharp and available from every village, so how would I use one? The Japanese developed a similar set of skills, many of the ninja weapons were actually farm tools.
Please note that all fighters has identical weapons, this isn't to match scythe vs scythe, but to show how a scythe attacks and how it is used to defend and is supposed to be read from a trained eye. It tell the reader as much about how to stop someone coming at you with a scythe (which angry peasants might well do) as well as how to pick up a scythe and use it.

At this point if we ignore him he might go away. "Debating" with him is pointless. He's clearly right with all of the super qualified youtube dewds he keeps posting videos from, and we all have no knowlege or ability to research.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

david choe wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
Okay..... This has gotten weird over the last few pages.

Firstly: I am a Blacksmith. I am also trained with a number of weapons, including the Bastard Sword and the Glaive. I am also trained to fight in armour.

Ill start with the first part: The Katana is inferior to other blades. No question. I am planning to craft swords for myself and my friends based upon our fighting styles: I am making myself a Bastard Sword and a Short sword, my first best friend has requested a Norse hand axe and a sword made specifically to a set of specifications that is difficult to provide here, my second best friend has requested a paired set of Long/Broad swords - he is naturally ambidextrous and is learning how to dual wield. He intends to have his primary sword slightly longer, and he can also use it with a shield. Now, one of my friends has no formal or informal training. All his experience comes from watching films, youtube videos and playing games. he is the only one whom has said he would take the katana as his first choice. Hell, even my ex preferred the Norse hand axe. This should tell you something.

As for control: With my Bastard sword I can vary the blow from a devastating hit that will rip you open, unless you are wearing plate armour, to a delicate sweep that just catches your throat with the very tip of the blade and rips it out. I can aim a hit at a specific weakpoint on full plate and expect to hit it.
Curved blade or no, my Bastard sword still has superior cutting power to the Katana.


Now, as for these Warscythes, well, they did exist. They where, as others here have cited, a viable peasant weapon that could be used in a time of war. The blade of the scythe was taken and rotated through 90 degrees and re-mounted on the shaft. This allowed the scythe to be used as a primitive form of halberd and if I remember rightly the halberd actually evolved from the warscythe. Either that or another polearm did.

Look at this video and tell me how he is not debunking this myth of scythe. I 'm tire of explaining to the same people that always disagreeing with me... so I rather have you list the disagreement of the video... I don't want to list all of his valid points

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_endKNXkdOY

Stop posting that video, it does not prove anything, as that guy presents about just as much evidence as you do. None.
On the other hand, the use of scythes in war is a commonly known fact that is well documented by both historical and contemporary literature and backed up by artwork from the period and even photographs for later periods. Get og Youtube, as you will never find any knowledge there. Go read some proper literature and if you find anything out there that proves that scythes were never reforged into improvised weapons, come back and let us know.


And a second thing for which you have been ridiculed: that Grim Reaper you keep bringing up. The use of a scythe by the Grim Reaper is symbolic, he harvests souls like a farmer harvests grain. It has nothing to do with the use of a scythe as a weapon. The Grim Reaper does not need a weapon, he is Death. Death does not need to reforge his scythe into a shabby improvised spear to stop a cavalry charge, he has nothing to do with the use of scythes in combat.

Another victim of this famous myth. If you actually read and do more research.. you will see that the scythe myth has been around since 16century.

This famous guy Paulus Hector Mair con many many people to think that scythe was a weapon because of his martial art. This one guy in the 15century started it all and many often sited his books as the bible proof of Scythe martial art. Which is the silliest thing ever.

The Polish War scythe or farming scythe from Poland "MIGHT" be the only exception. Which I'm not really sure if it were true. However, even if it were true... Hollywood really screw with most of your perception. This is also part of the "scythe fanbois" bible proof of scythe as weapon. Maybe Poland Scythe were super thick or something, I don't know.

However, time and time again... people keep thinking that a normal farming scythe were common for farmer upraising or revolt weapons... because in almost every hollywood film when there is a lynch mob... they have to show the cook with a rolling pin and some farmer with a scythe... because how els are we going to know they wear farmers right?

Again, a scythe is harder to use than any Japanese exotic weapons like Nunchaku or Sai.. and normal farmer can scythe his enemy with a farm scythe is beyond believable.

Nobody can use a farm scythe as a weapon unless he actually train with it as a weapon. Which would be an oxymoron because nobody train to fight with a iron pan or a rolling pin or a freaking farm tool.

LOL... really the Grim reaper is not real?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frazzled wrote:
I think the Dacians would like to join your little scythe party.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falx
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dacian_warfare

The Romans were particularly nervous of the two handed falx which could go through their armor without difficulty. Apparently they made special armor for it.

well lets join the party.

We all know that those tools are more of a sickle than a european scythe that is depicted in our conversation. Don't even mention the Japanese ninja scythe. Again, just because the english name has the word scythe in it.

We are talking here about the typical English Farm Scythe as depicted in many fiction hollywood. You want to bring in Greek sickle or scythe just because 500BC they use it to cut wheat and now you want to compare as Farmer scythe ... OK you win.

Painting of a farmer with a scythe from around 1250.

Looks like it could be swung like a pick, not terribly difficult. Probably not very effective, but not impossible like you've been trying to tell us. A farmer takes a swing at a militia member wearing chainmail, one of e things happen:

1. The scythe blade breaks on the chainmail, and the guard runs him through.

2. The scythe breaks but pierces the chain, wounding and allowing him to grab the guards weapon.

3. Clean hit, scythe is fine after going through the chain. Most likely a lucky hit, probably shouldn't try it again.

 Orlanth wrote:

david choe wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:


Special bonus

Got medieval?

Agricultural tools as weapons and exotic armament in the 16th century:


These guys just didnt mess about.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Artorias the Abysswalker wrote:
Nice! It just didn't look practical to me at first.

Speaking of practical weapons - morning star flail - cool looking. Practical? Maybe on horseback, but definitely not on foot. Also, did knights use their lances in open combat, or were they mostly used for jousting?

Flails CAN be practical, but they do have downsides... 1. you have to use it's momentum. 2. it's only really good use is as a "disarming weapon", which leads to 3. You still need other weapons to fight.

Posted as you were typing also, the video posted just now of exotic weapon plays includes flail plays. Enjoy.

The farm tool scythe as a weapon is a myth. That freaking thing is almost impossible to use in combat. You have better chance at wining combat with a iron pan.

david choe, not to call you out as someone on the wrong side of the evidence AGAIN but... The link given was for 16th century handbook of fighting techniques, not stills from a fantasy RPG. i.e you are flatly going against historical evidence right in front of your face.

Now if the guys in the later medieval are have a how to guide for fighting with the sickle and the scythe, it meant there was a fighting style for fighting with those weapons. As the plays are very simple its likely to be a primer on improvised weaponry, along the grounds that sickles and scythes are sharp and available from every village, so how would I use one? The Japanese developed a similar set of skills, many of the ninja weapons were actually farm tools.
Please note that all fighters has identical weapons, this isn't to match scythe vs scythe, but to show how a scythe attacks and how it is used to defend and is supposed to be read from a trained eye. It tell the reader as much about how to stop someone coming at you with a scythe (which angry peasants might well do) as well as how to pick up a scythe and use it.

LOL. you were the guy who posted Paulus Hector Mair the famous con artist "martial artist" book of his time right? This guy was full of crap and got hanged for it in the end. His farming "martial art" combat was one the the reason why we have "scythe fanbois" and the creation of scythe myth.

I am starting to remembers avatar of people full of crap here. I mean anybody who is a fanbois of farm tools as real weapons....come on.
You actually believe that this book really show how to fight with farm tools? He made like 3 books. Just 3. Who would ever try to learn how to use a farm tools as weapon? And those drawing really show how to fight. It is pure BS. Fighting with Chaos Lord spike shield? Or lets stick the sickle up a guy butt? This book is the joke of all european martial artist book. People who train in european fighting always joke about this book and laugh at all the stupid drawing. It is the famous funny book of every fighting club man....Dude..this says a lot about you.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Inquisitor Lord Bane wrote:
Painting of a farmer with a scythe from around 1250.

Looks like it could be swung like a pick, not terribly difficult. Probably not very effective, but not impossible like you've been trying to tell us. A farmer takes a swing at a militia member wearing chainmail, one of e things happen:

1. The scythe blade breaks on the chainmail, and the guard runs him through.

2. The scythe breaks but pierces the chain, wounding and allowing him to grab the guards weapon.

3. Clean hit, scythe is fine after going through the chain. Most likely a lucky hit, probably shouldn't try it again.

The thing is... the blade are very thin and that drawing is false. True scythe blade will be position the other way. Again, I don't want to debate about things that the video debunked. Please look at the video and you will see why this drawing is wrong.