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Points.

If my opponent says ‘I’m a couple of points over, is that ok?’, it’s on me to accept or decline.

Reasons for doing so may be limited by their collection. It may also be because they’re a sad old grognard like wot I am, and just can’t stand not fielding squads of 10, or other, similarly round numbers.

It’s Not A Big Deal. Happy? Say yes. Not happy? Say no. Compromise, and never be a Richard

Bharring wrote:
But I liiiike my 1500 pt games.

To hell with anyone who suggests 1503! Cursed cheaters! Probably even a Dark Angles player!

Woah now. There's no need for that kind of language here!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Compromise, and never be a Richard

I want 2" of extra movement for my units, you want to play by the rules. Clearly we should compromise on 1" extra.

Quite the leap of logic there, no?

You don’t want them to go over points? That’s fine. They asked, you declined. That’s fair enough.

Your example? That’s straight out cheating. And purposefully silly.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Quite the leap of logic there, no?

You don’t want them to go over points? That’s fine. They asked, you declined. That’s fair enough.

Your example? That’s straight out cheating. And purposefully silly.

It ought to be fair enough but see the various posts in the thread suggesting that they wouldn't play with someone that allowed them those extra points.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Compromise, and never be a Richard

I want 2" of extra movement for my units, you want to play by the rules. Clearly we should compromise on 1" extra.

As far as I can tell, there are no rules specifying what points value an army should have. Nor even that both armies have to be the same (though that is implied, its not explicitly stated; that I can see.)

'I want 2" of extra movement for my units, you want to play by the rules. Clearly we should compromise on 1" extra.'

You're just as welcome to ask to use a 2k list vs me using a 1k list. I'm sure there are situations I'd accept. But it's not likely.

If I *did* accept, that wouldn't be cheating, though.

Bharring wrote:
But I liiiike my 1500 pt games.

To hell with anyone who suggests 1503! Cursed cheaters! Probably even a Dark Angles player!

Whoa whoa whoa!

Who the frag do you think you are not playing the enforced mandatory standard 2000pts?
YOU SCUMBAG!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Quite the leap of logic there, no?

You don’t want them to go over points? That’s fine. They asked, you declined. That’s fair enough.

Your example? That’s straight out cheating. And purposefully silly.

And I'm just asking for extra movement. If you hate fun you can always say no.

Oh dear.

Hyperbole.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Quite the leap of logic there, no?

You don’t want them to go over points? That’s fine. They asked, you declined. That’s fair enough.

Your example? That’s straight out cheating. And purposefully silly.

And I'm just asking for extra movement. If you hate fun you can always say no.

Guess what - during 7th I did not only allow but actually encouraged Tyranid player to use his Hormagaunts as if they were Beasts, because it was most certainly more fun way to play them for both of us. Moreover, at no extra cost! How dare I!

 Peregrine wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Compromise, and never be a Richard

I want 2" of extra movement for my units, you want to play by the rules. Clearly we should compromise on 1" extra.

No need to compromise. You can have the 2" extra. Just did this for a buddy the day CA came out because his regiment is from a high-gravity world, and we were playing on a moon, so his soldiers were "loping" while my tanks didn't really get much (there's no rules for "better fuel efficiency" sadly).

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Compromise, and never be a Richard

I want 2" of extra movement for my units, you want to play by the rules. Clearly we should compromise on 1" extra.

No need to compromise. You can have the 2" extra. Just did this for a buddy the day CA came out because his regiment is from a high-gravity world, and we were playing on a moon, so his soldiers were "loping" while my tanks didn't really get much (there's no rules for "better fuel efficiency" sadly).

Man.. I must come from a "no fun allowed" local meta, because I can't picture anyone ever asking to do that, nor can I picture myself ever allowing it lol.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Points.

If my opponent says ‘I’m a couple of points over, is that ok?’, it’s on me to accept or decline.

Reasons for doing so may be limited by their collection. It may also be because they’re a sad old grognard like wot I am, and just can’t stand not fielding squads of 10, or other, similarly round numbers.

It’s Not A Big Deal. Happy? Say yes. Not happy? Say no. Compromise, and never be a Richard

You may not have any players like this in your group, but there absolutely ARE people who will try to make you feel like you have no choice in the matter. They may hit you with the “let me have extra points or you’re a bad person who hates fun” subtext, (usually done in the form of just showing up with points over and acting shocked when you don’t react favorably to it,) or just not tell you about the extra points at all.

I always play at or under the limit because I respect my opponent, and don’t want to put him in the awkward situation where he feels like the villain because he had to refuse to bend to my whims. It’s the same reason my dad threatened to go get his belt when child-me suddenly had the epiphany that I could just ask everyone for money for things I want. Because unapologetically imposing on people and putting them in awkward situations is disrespectful.

And that’s on them.

Now I’ve not been able to play regularly in a while, so I’ve no idea how well rounded points are. So my approach is rooted in now outdated experience, especially in Warhammer Fantasy, where the points totted up to odd amounts. Going over by two or three is the difference between fielding a unit, and just bulking out others, but being nine or so down.

Any time I was arranging a game, I’d contact the person if it looked like I was exceeding the points, and put the ball in their court. Yes was fine, no was fine. It was never demand, just a question.

Anyone making demands of the game is in the wrong. Be it ‘tournament practice only, bring your A game or you’re disrespecting me’, demanding they be allowed to exceed the limit, or adopting specific house rules outside of a club league etc is a Richard.

 niv-mizzet wrote:

You may not have any players like this in your group, but there absolutely ARE people who will try to make you feel like you have no choice in the matter. They may hit you with the “let me have extra points or you’re a bad person who hates fun” subtext, (usually done in the form of just showing up with points over and acting shocked when you don’t react favorably to it,) or just not tell you about the extra points at all.

Sure, such people exist, and I'm sure most of us would agree that it is not OK behaviour. And of course having extra points without asking is actually cheating.

But people can try to pressure and shame you to do all sorts of in this game, like to use points whilst you'd rather use PL or accept their houserule of using suggested tournament rules in a casual matched play game.

The bad sportsmanship there is not that they want to play a 2006-pt game. It's that they're trying to guilt you into it.

Isn't that the same as Peregrine's example of wanting to play with an extra 2" of movement? The problem isn't what they're asking. It's how they're asking. An extra 2" of movement may even be a valid request, in some very specific scenarios. But if it's just an attempt to get an advantage, coupled with some form of bullying the opponent to agree to it, then the bad sportsmanship is the seeking of advantage and bullying. The rules (or points) change is just the vehicle.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Quite the leap of logic there, no?

You don’t want them to go over points? That’s fine. They asked, you declined. That’s fair enough.

Your example? That’s straight out cheating. And purposefully silly.

It's asking for a favor to make your army better. That's literally the same thing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crimson wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Once again, this is called cheating with permission,

That's an oxymoron, there literally is no such thing. It is a sure sign that your argument is weak if you have to rely on lies based on nonsense to defend it.

Are you saying that one can't openly know if their opponent is cheating? It goes right hand in hand, essentially.

If the opponent knowingly beforehand agreed to play in a certain way, then it cannot be cheating. Cheating is intentionally breaking the rules agreed upon, which is not the case here. Do you usually have this much trouble understanding what commonly used words mean?

None of these examples are beforehand. Nobody says "Hey let's play a 2004 point game", which is honestly the most unrealistic thing I would probably read ever. You agreed to a 2000 point game, and ALL the sudden you're this many points over. So I do have to call shenanigans on your list construction. You can always remove something to hit the point limit, even if you don't want to. You people complain about "netlisters" not making their own armies, and you can't even construct a proper army yourself!

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Quite the leap of logic there, no?

You don’t want them to go over points? That’s fine. They asked, you declined. That’s fair enough.

Your example? That’s straight out cheating. And purposefully silly.

It's asking for a favor to make your army better. That's literally the same thing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crimson wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Once again, this is called cheating with permission,

That's an oxymoron, there literally is no such thing. It is a sure sign that your argument is weak if you have to rely on lies based on nonsense to defend it.

Are you saying that one can't openly know if their opponent is cheating? It goes right hand in hand, essentially.

If the opponent knowingly beforehand agreed to play in a certain way, then it cannot be cheating. Cheating is intentionally breaking the rules agreed upon, which is not the case here. Do you usually have this much trouble understanding what commonly used words mean?

None of these examples are beforehand. Nobody says "Hey let's play a 2004 point game", which is honestly the most unrealistic thing I would probably read ever. You agreed to a 2000 point game, and ALL the sudden you're this many points over. So I do have to call shenanigans on your list construction. You can always remove something to hit the point limit, even if you don't want to. You people complain about "netlisters" not making their own armies, and you can't even construct a proper army yourself!

For most people in this thread "beforehand" means before first dice roll of the actual game, not a week, day or an hour before the game takes place. You can freely discuss any parameter of a non-tournament game up untill the very moment the actual game begins and it is still a part of "achieving agreement between two consenting adults". This seems to be idea beyond your ability to comprehend...

I'm sure I've often arranged games with 'weird' point totals. I gather some models I want to use, then make the list. 1337, Cool. I message my friend: 'Wanna play 40K on Saturday? I made a 1337 point list." They then make their list. It might be 1300, 1350 or 1362. It really doesn't matter, the points are not that accurate to begin with; the goal is just to achieve a rough parity.

Of course tournaments and other competitive events where there is some specific limit that every participant agrees to honour is different; then that obviously is the limit and not a point more.

nou wrote:
[

For most people in this thread "beforehand" means before first dice roll of the actual game, not a week, day or an hour before the game takes place. You can freely discuss any parameter of a non-tournament game up untill the very moment the actual game begins and it is still a part of "achieving agreement between two consenting adults". This seems to be idea beyond your ability to comprehend...

Out of selft interest where in Poland is W40k or 9th age played that way?

 Crimson wrote:
I'm sure I've often arranged games with 'weird' point totals. I gather some models I want to use, then make the list. 1337, Cool. I message my friend: 'Wanna play 40K on Saturday? I made a 1337 point list." They then make their list. It might be 1300, 1350 or 1362. It really doesn't matter, the points are not that accurate to begin with; the goal is just to achieve a rough parity.

Of course tournaments and other competitive events where there is some specific limit that every participant agrees to honour is different; then that obviously is the limit and not a point more.

I see what you did there

 Crimson wrote:
I'm sure I've often arranged games with 'weird' point totals. I gather some models I want to use, then make the list. 1337, Cool. I message my friend: 'Wanna play 40K on Saturday? I made a 1337 point list." They then make their list. It might be 1300, 1350 or 1362. It really doesn't matter, the points are not that accurate to begin with; the goal is just to achieve a rough parity.

Of course tournaments and other competitive events where there is some specific limit that every participant agrees to honour is different; then that obviously is the limit and not a point more.

That sounds incredibly incomprehensible.

Even my first locals when I started in 4th did 1300 as a standard game at first, but simply adding numbers at the end is just bizarre. Why the arbitrary number?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also if you want "rough parity", you can use the terribly thought out Power Level system.

I put a lot of time and thought into making army lists. This means fitting things that synergize well into the agreed point limit. You don’t always get what you want and sometime for good reason. When I played warmachine that extra point or two could mean the difference in a good list or game breaking combo.

I happen to think it’s a bit rude to ask when you could easily remove a model or a piece of war gear.

If it’s someone new to the game just playing with what they have or a situation like that it’s one thing but to think it’s ok to show up over points isn’t cool and slightly passive aggressive even.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

That sounds incredibly incomprehensible.

Even my first locals when I started in 4th did 1300 as a standard game at first, but simply adding numbers at the end is just bizarre. Why the arbitrary number?

Why it is bizarre? Perhaps those were the forces I think thematically fit with my Inquisitor. Perhaps that was the total of the Space Marines I had painted for my new chapter thus far. What does it matter, it is just a number, why should round numbers have some specific significance?

Also if you want "rough parity", you can use the terribly thought out Power Level system.

Sure. It's good for that sort of thing.

Karol wrote:

nou wrote:


For most people in this thread "beforehand" means before first dice roll of the actual game, not a week, day or an hour before the game takes place. You can freely discuss any parameter of a non-tournament game up untill the very moment the actual game begins and it is still a part of "achieving agreement between two consenting adults". This seems to be idea beyond your ability to comprehend...

Out of selft interest where in Poland is W40k or 9th age played that way?

My group is from Pyrylandia, we originated from a laid back board game group, not connected and not dependent on any FLGS here.

It seems like one poster mentioned wanting to keep his extra six units because it made his army more potent. I'm not down with that. That seems like taking advantage. Unfortunately, it seems to have given certain posters their "ah-HA!" quote that they can use to dismiss the original point of contention where a player might choose a subpar list for fluff reasons and want those points to use the army in the way that makes him or her happy.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Compromise, and never be a Richard

I want 2" of extra movement for my units, you want to play by the rules. Clearly we should compromise on 1" extra.

I would give the extra 2 inches. I'm not playing to win or challenge myself or any of that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 niv-mizzet wrote:


You may not have any players like this in your group, but there absolutely ARE people who will try to make you feel like you have no choice in the matter. They may hit you with the “let me have extra points or you’re a bad person who hates fun” subtext, (usually done in the form of just showing up with points over and acting shocked when you don’t react favorably to it,) or just not tell you about the extra points at all.

Why wouldn't you walk away from someone who is making you feel guilty? Why play against someone if you are not totally on board?

For myself, 6 points out of 2000 is a 0.3% points advantage, which means nothing to me. I don’t for a second believe GW is accurate to within 10% most of the time, so to me, 6 points is insignificant, no matter what whombo-combo that unlocks.

I tend to approach things pragmatically, as opposed to dogmatically, however. Not everyone does that. Between my friends, we have a thing...

“Hey Dick-head! I’m 6 points over.”

“Ok, but if you win it doesn’t count, feth-face.”

And then we play a game, and if the over-points player wins, and the under-points player remembers, he can rain on the victor’s bragging rights, by reminding him that he’s a dirty cheater and it didn’t count.

But since all we play for is bragging rights and something to do while we hang out together, that’s usually a good compromise for us. It’s worked for about 20 years now, and woe betide an over-points player that loses! Because then not only did you win, but you beat them while they were cheating!

(To be clear, we don’t worry about a few points here or there. We’d rather play units with the upgrades we want rather then be finicky about a melta-bomb or one extra Tac Marine. That’s fun for us.)

To the OP:

I like to collect a wide variety of units, rather than spamming the same unit over and over, though with IG I do have a lot of infantry squads. I generally buy a variety of units that I like and build combined arms type armies as strongly as I can from my collection.

 Crimson wrote:
Why it is bizarre? Perhaps those were the forces I think thematically fit with my Inquisitor. Perhaps that was the total of the Space Marines I had painted for my new chapter thus far.

If that total is 1337 points then why not play a 1500 point game? Why should your opponent have to match an awkward point total perfectly tailored to your army?

What does it matter, it is just a number, why should round numbers have some specific significance?

Because it's a neutral number. A 250 point increment is just a round number for "I want a 2-3 hour normal size game" or whatever, it favors neither player because the exact number is set by the community as a whole (and human nature to use round numbers). A 2006 point game almost certainly started as a 2000 point game until one player asked to alter the number for their own benefit. That is no longer neutral.

 Crimson wrote:
I'm sure I've often arranged games with 'weird' point totals. I gather some models I want to use, then make the list. 1337, Cool. I message my friend: 'Wanna play 40K on Saturday? I made a 1337 point list." They then make their list. It might be 1300, 1350 or 1362. It really doesn't matter, the points are not that accurate to begin with; the goal is just to achieve a rough parity.

My god...sounds like you're just playing for fun!...you rebelious scum!
You should never be allowed to play. Ever.
It's disgusting how you swan around not going up in 250pts increments.
You degenerate filth!
You're supposed to play the official enforced standard of 2000pts. The level all competitive trolls tailor their lists too.

I bet you don't even use the most points efficient powerful units. Or spam them to the proper amount.
Disgusting.