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There was a significant change in the FAQ for chaos knights. Chaos knights like despoilers and tyrants can now move over blocking units as long as they don't end their move in engagement range of an enemy unit. This is a significant change. No longer can a bunch of scouts move up to within 1.1 inch of a melee despoiler and restrict its movement.

Also, titanic units like chaos knights can fall back and shoot, and even fall back and charge. So, a melee despoiler or rampager is pretty scary now since it can't be so easily constrained in movement. It will be free to charge forward and smash stuff up.

This, plus the fact that Thermal cannons got hit by a cost increase means that the cheapest knights we can field now are melee despoilers with fist and chainsword,

Another buff to melee knights is that these can reach second or even third floor easily now in a fight. Putting a unit on upper floors no longer protects them from being charged and killed by a knight in close combat.

I think chainsword and fist despoilers and even rampagers will become more popular in chaos knight armies in 9th ed.

Okay, I think this is the knight I will be building around in 9e for the foreseeable:

House Khomentis Knight Castigator warlord. With Damonic Shrike and Dread hunter.

It's hardly a hugely original loadout, but 9e just put this guy through the roof due to tactical reserves.

There's now no way of stopping this chonky boy shooting at top profile at the target of his choice, either on T1 if you judge your opponent not to have the means to take him down, or T2 if you're facing lots of AT.

His gun will do an average of 16 damage vs T8 4++. It will one-bang anything without an invuln save.

are there any legit allies allowed to chaos knights in grand tournaments?

The current competitive rules don’t really have restrictions other than to be battle forged, detachments must share a faction keyword. The common word for detachments to be selected for us is “CHAOS”.

Meaning a Chaos Knights detachment can be taken with a Chaos Space Marines detachment and a Chaos Daemons detachment. Or a Thousand Sons or Deathguard.

The key is that they can’t be mixed in a single detachment unless they share ANOTHER key word, like NURGLE or something.

Does this help?

 Brymm wrote:
The current competitive rules don’t really have restrictions other than to be battle forged, detachments must share a faction keyword. The common word for detachments to be selected for us is “CHAOS”.

Meaning a Chaos Knights detachment can be taken with a Chaos Space Marines detachment and a Chaos Daemons detachment. Or a Thousand Sons or Deathguard.

The key is that they can’t be mixed in a single detachment unless they share ANOTHER key word, like NURGLE or something.

Does this help?

keeping in mind that I don't have the new rules yet...
https://spikeybits.com/2020/07/gw-nerfs-grand-tournament-play-40k-rules.html
the article said that CHAOS was no longer a legit soup keyword, meaning that we'd be stuck going mono-faction. While I don't currently plan on going to any GTs, any local tournaments may well follow the rules and has me concerned.

sorry. I misread it as each unit in the army had to share a keyword other than chaos. my bad. I can still use my Cult of Duplicity as soup.

Yeah I like that rule, it stops the detachment mixed-bag that was seeing some play in 8e, which I never really thought was healthy.

This edition is tough on Knights. Opponent can max out on easy secondary quite easily if you are running full knight army. And playing primary objectives can be challenging too.

From what I see, its possible to play 1 war dog and as many as 4 knights. So, place the one wardog on the rear objective and hope that your opponent doesn't have anything that can challenge that.

Then throw 4 knights forward onto the midboard objectives and hope that that will overwhelm the opponent. a wardog is around 155 points. So, that still leave 1845 points to be spent on 4 knights, which is a decent amount.

Its better than putting a big shooty knight on your rear objective and wasting its melee ability. Because even a shooty variant knight can fight.

I think I'd rather go 3 big and 4 armiger variants if I was going pure knights. Probably a lot of lightning locks in there.

Also reduces targets for titan slaying. Especially useful in GT mission pack where you get vp's for killing 1/2/3 rather than maxing out with 2 dead.

So what I’m reading is that you can take your super heavy detachment and get a full refund if your warlord is TITANIC. A change from last edition is that you can get the full command benefit of running a TITANIC unit as your Warlord with two Wardogs so you can have lots of points left to fill out a different detachment of Chaos like Deathguard. Food for thought.

Hello All, i was thinking of buying a knight to complement the Khorne Daemons. any thoughts on are preferred knight with Daemons and a load out.

Get a Khorne Lord of Skulls to go with your Khorne Daemons. Super fluffly! As a single superheavy, a LOS is just as good as a knight. Price points are similar too. Ah sorry, I forgot this was the chaos knight thread. Anyway, go for a shooty knight, as Khorne Daemons doesn't have much shooting, and even a shooty knight can still fight well enough.

 Brymm wrote:
So what I’m reading is that you can take your super heavy detachment and get a full refund if your warlord is TITANIC. A change from last edition is that you can get the full command benefit of running a TITANIC unit as your Warlord with two Wardogs so you can have lots of points left to fill out a different detachment of Chaos like Deathguard. Food for thought.

A House Lucaris Despoiler with the Lucaris WLT, 2 Avengers and a Pyrothrone is probably going to be my go to. Plus a bunch of Helverins, and a Battalion of Thousand Sons. I'm a little bummed that I can only have a single instance of a power other than Smite, but the funsies of a full squad of Rubrics dropping in exactly where I need it might just be so much fun.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Get a Khorne Lord of Skulls to go with your Khorne Daemons. Super fluffly! As a single superheavy, a LOS is just as good as a knight. Price points are similar too. Ah sorry, I forgot this was the chaos knight thread. Anyway, go for a shooty knight, as Khorne Daemons doesn't have much shooting, and even a shooty knight can still fight well enough.

Cp intensive though and, without two friends in a SHD, can't unlock CSM traits on its own in an aux. I think that model's future is gonna hang on their next codex.

Well,, to be fair, superheavies like a LOS don't really benefit from CSM legion traits, as these only affect characters, infantry, and Hellbrutes.

Don't know if you've played against them, but they are heavily impacted by the Iron Warriors warlord traits and strats like Iron Within, Dour Duty, unholy vigor and tank hunters. Along with certain characters, this is what pushed triple LoS into the very top ranks of competitive lists at the end of 8e.

Been messing around with lists a bit recently. Trying to decide which knight is best for Infernal Conquest. First thought is a Valiant, because chonkh. But then I remembered Helm of Warp-Sight. Even though I'd get little from my normal House Lucaris, a double avenger could be super sneaky to use, as long as I'm not mistaken, HoWS let's you dakka at enemies in engagement range at full BS. Having that parked on an objective could be really nice.

Also, was there ever an FAQ which let. FW knights take relics? I can't find it anywhere.

StarHunter25 wrote:
was there ever an FAQ which let. FW knights take relics? I can't find it anywhere.

why should that matter? It isn't the datasheet that allows Chaos Knights to take relics, but rather the description on P. 68 of the 'Artifacts of Tyranny'. The only possible exception is if you want to take a second, as the 'Corrupted Heirlooms' Stratagem limits it to Despoilers, Tyrants, or Abhorrents.

edit, make your FW knight your Warlord, and it can take a Relic. The only real issue is if you want a second or a third.

It's almost as if I had read the rules, and noticed how much more specific the Chaos Knights codex is with keywords in regards to warlords, relics, and stratagems in comparison to the Imperial Knights codex. I also may have heard the rumors of the lack of communication between the GW and FW design teams, and guessed that the PDF updates were more or less copy paste jobs. Thus my question to the existence of a FAQ or designer's commentary potentially being hidden on GW's myriad social media outlets in regards to keyword relations for Cerastus, Acastus and Questoris knights from Forgeworld. Thanks for the condescending non-answer though.

StarHunter25 wrote:
It's almost as if I had read the rules, and noticed how much more specific the Chaos Knights codex is with keywords in regards to warlords, relics, and stratagems in comparison to the Imperial Knights codex. I also may have heard the rumors of the lack of communication between the GW and FW design teams, and guessed that the PDF updates were more or less copy paste jobs. Thus my question to the existence of a FAQ or designer's commentary potentially being hidden on GW's myriad social media outlets in regards to keyword relations for Cerastus, Acastus and Questoris knights from Forgeworld. Thanks for the condescending non-answer though.

Reading your offense over that response is worse than whatever you are feeling about it.

No, there is no FAQ.

Chaos daemons are a good faction to soup in for Chaos knights. Nurglings are great, and if you take a patrol detachment, you can take up to 3 nurglings squads. For just 2 CP to get that patrol.

If you are willing to use 3 CP to get a battalion, you can get even more nurgling squads. And they make up for the biggest problem with playing knights. We don't want our knights sitting on an objective, we want them fighting the enemy.

So, all those nurgling squads can now do the objective sitting, and they are great objective sitters, while our chaos knights can then go do whatever they want.

Plus strong psykers... a LoC is pretty good right now.

Eldenfirefly wrote:Chaos daemons are a good faction to soup in for Chaos knights. Nurglings are great, and if you take a patrol detachment, you can take up to 3 nurglings squads. For just 2 CP to get that patrol.

If you are willing to use 3 CP to get a battalion, you can get even more nurgling squads. And they make up for the biggest problem with playing knights. We don't want our knights sitting on an objective, we want them fighting the enemy.

So, all those nurgling squads can now do the objective sitting, and they are great objective sitters, while our chaos knights can then go do whatever they want.

grouchoben wrote:Plus strong psykers... a LoC is pretty good right now.

Yeah, if you're gonna soup in Daemons, Nurgle and Tzeentch do NOT mind losing their Locus (which is their mono-faction bonus).

I played my first game of 9th with my Chaos Knights...and man, it seems like you are climbing uphill with these missions and terrain rules.

Like my knight is clearly taller than some of the terrain but magically can't see enemies....ridiculous!

Anyways, I did win by killing all the enemy troops on one flank and throwing my rampager in the face of the other flank.

I think summoning or allying in some other units to hold objectives is going to be key to these missions.

Also, do knights really only start with 9 cp compared to 12 everyone else gets if they go monofaction?

Knights can start with the full 12 if your Warlord is in the Super-Heavy Detachment and you have no other detachments costing CP.

bmsattler wrote:
Knights can start with the full 12 if your Warlord is in the Super-Heavy Detachment and you have no other detachments costing CP.

Hmm. I didn't see anything clarifying that so I started with 9. Like I said, it was my first game of 9th!

The smaller board did help, but man...having to hold back to hold objectives...is un-knightly. I may try a more aggressive list with more rampagers and just try and surge forward and hit the enemy before they can move out next time.

Heafstaag wrote:

bmsattler wrote:
Knights can start with the full 12 if your Warlord is in the Super-Heavy Detachment and you have no other detachments costing CP.

Hmm. I didn't see anything clarifying that so I started with 9. Like I said, it was my first game of 9th!

The smaller board did help, but man...having to hold back to hold objectives...is un-knightly. I may try a more aggressive list with more rampagers and just try and surge forward and hit the enemy before they can move out next time.

Chaos Knights errata wrote:*Pages 62 – Traitoris Lances, rules text
Change the last sentence to read:
‘If your Warlord has the Chaos Knights keyword, Chaos Knights
Super-heavy Detachments in your army gain the following
Command Benefits: ‘Select one of the following: +3 Command
Points if your Warlord is part of this Detachment; +6 Command
Points if your Warlord is part of this Detachment and has the
Titanic keyword.’

So you'll still be down 3CP if for some reason you have a mix of Titanic and non-Titanic units and choose to make a non-Titanic unit your warlord...but...I don't think I've ever seen that be done in a pure-knight list.

If you're going pure knights you really need a lot of wardogs. I much prefer the experience of running soup: I've tried World eaters, Thousand Sons and Daemons in 9e, and I'd rate WE as most fun and Daemons as most competitive. I've run 3 exalted GDs and 2 Questoris, and 2 Exalted GDs and 3 Questoris, always with nurglings. Undecided which works better, but it's probably 3/2.

Maethbalnane wrote:

Heafstaag wrote:

bmsattler wrote:
Knights can start with the full 12 if your Warlord is in the Super-Heavy Detachment and you have no other detachments costing CP.

Hmm. I didn't see anything clarifying that so I started with 9. Like I said, it was my first game of 9th!

The smaller board did help, but man...having to hold back to hold objectives...is un-knightly. I may try a more aggressive list with more rampagers and just try and surge forward and hit the enemy before they can move out next time.

Chaos Knights errata wrote:*Pages 62 – Traitoris Lances, rules text
Change the last sentence to read:
‘If your Warlord has the Chaos Knights keyword, Chaos Knights
Super-heavy Detachments in your army gain the following
Command Benefits: ‘Select one of the following: +3 Command
Points if your Warlord is part of this Detachment; +6 Command
Points if your Warlord is part of this Detachment and has the
Titanic keyword.’

So you'll still be down 3CP if for some reason you have a mix of Titanic and non-Titanic units and choose to make a non-Titanic unit your warlord...but...I don't think I've ever seen that be done in a pure-knight list.

I didn't think to check FAQs, lol! Didn't think there would be one so soon.

Nice!

Was looking at the power levels. and point changes in the new FAQ. Our Chaos Tyrant with volcano cannon is as cheap as the imperial version now at 635 points. That is rather interesting. You can take a superheavy detachment with that as the warlord, and 2 war dogs, and you would still have at least 1000 points to take something else in another detachment if you want to soup.

Another thing I just thought about. I know the missions have been tough for us. But has anyone considered taking a superheavy detachment of 1 Tyrant, and like 6 war dogs ? The war dogs are not titanic. So, even if they kill the Tyrant, they can't max points VP for that titan killing secondary. And 1 titanic and 6 war dogs can run around and cover a lot more ground and objectives than say 4 titanics.

Also, you can place say 2 of the war dogs in reserve so they come in from the flanks on either turn 2 or 3.

Also another point about reserves. Has another considered putting a Harpoon and confrag cannon Tyrant into reserve? Based on the faq, it costs 4 CP which is hefty. But we get more CP to play with anyway in the new edition.

A confrag cannon Tyrant's guns are all mid ranged anyway. So, it gets no benefit starting on the board on 1st turn to be shot at. Coming in on turn 2 at the flanks of the midboard, 9 inches away almost seems like the perfect range for it. Literally all of its guns (even the 4 melta guns), will be in range the minute it comes from strategic reserves 9 inches from the opponent. And it would be able to roast a ton of stuff. Then pay full tilt to make a 7 inch charge onto a mid board objective and kill even more stuff. It sounds really cool to me. The table size is smaller now, and knights can step over infantry models to get where they want. So, once the knight is in the midboard, just about anything will be within its reach from there.