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Made in fr
Hellacious Havoc




The Realm of Hungry Ghosts

Fip wrote:
I would even let him babysit the havocs. Illusory Supplicant in your enemies turn warp sight plea in your own turn.



The prayers don't work like that, though. You get to chant one at the beginning of the round, not one each at the beginning of every player's turn.
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

A priest is not worth its points. He is way too expensive for one prayer. A tzeentch MoP or sorcerer can cast three psychic powers (with a strat).
   
Made in us
Morphing Obliterator





 p5freak wrote:
A priest is not worth its points. He is way too expensive for one prayer. A tzeentch MoP or sorcerer can cast three psychic powers (with a strat).


I don't disagree entirely, it's an unwieldy unit, especially with the attendants, its combat value is marginal at best. Word Bearers can invest and get 2 prayers per turn and potentially improve its combat potential, so there's that. Furthermore, CSM HQ is heavily impacted already, especially if you're trying to limit yourself to a single detachment.

However, it does provide some buffs that are unavailable anywhere else. As with most things, I suspect it comes down to army composition, legion choice, and tactical preference. Under the right circumstances I suspect it's indispensable.

"In relating the circumstances which have led to my confinement in this refuge for the demented, I am aware that my present position will create a natural doubt of the authenticity of my narrative."  
   
Made in us
Twisting Tzeentch Horror





 TwinPoleTheory wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
A priest is not worth its points. He is way too expensive for one prayer. A tzeentch MoP or sorcerer can cast three psychic powers (with a strat).


I don't disagree entirely, it's an unwieldy unit, especially with the attendants, its combat value is marginal at best. Word Bearers can invest and get 2 prayers per turn and potentially improve its combat potential, so there's that. Furthermore, CSM HQ is heavily impacted already, especially if you're trying to limit yourself to a single detachment.

However, it does provide some buffs that are unavailable anywhere else. As with most things, I suspect it comes down to army composition, legion choice, and tactical preference. Under the right circumstances I suspect it's indispensable.


I agree. It really depends on army build. I haven't really used him much as he can't buff possessed with Illusory. However, if I had to pick between him and a MoP, it is MoP all day everyday.
   
Made in us
Morphing Obliterator





 xeen wrote:
I agree. It really depends on army build. I haven't really used him much as he can't buff possessed with Illusory. However, if I had to pick between him and a MoP, it is MoP all day everyday.


I think MoP is auto-include. The other two HQ slots are the variables in my opinion. At this point I've only been theory-crafting lists, which is EC focusing heavily on Core units, so Blissful Devotion/Honor the Prince is something I want to play around with.

I'll play my first actual games with EC this weekend and see how theory plays on the table. I don't really play competitively at this point though, so it's just casual games with friends, so the results will not be very indicative of what to expect outside that environment.

"In relating the circumstances which have led to my confinement in this refuge for the demented, I am aware that my present position will create a natural doubt of the authenticity of my narrative."  
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





 TwinPoleTheory wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
A priest is not worth its points. He is way too expensive for one prayer. A tzeentch MoP or sorcerer can cast three psychic powers (with a strat).


I don't disagree entirely, it's an unwieldy unit, especially with the attendants, its combat value is marginal at best. Word Bearers can invest and get 2 prayers per turn and potentially improve its combat potential, so there's that. Furthermore, CSM HQ is heavily impacted already, especially if you're trying to limit yourself to a single detachment.

However, it does provide some buffs that are unavailable anywhere else. As with most things, I suspect it comes down to army composition, legion choice, and tactical preference. Under the right circumstances I suspect it's indispensable.


Yeah, I agree too. It kind of depends on the list. I have tried it out. But my current lists have dropped it. What I hate is that you can still roll a 1 and fail at a prayer (and sometimes at a key turn too). And if you spent so many points to bring a character that then failed at its one job at a moment.... its so disheartening. Because at least a psyker like MOP has 2 casts. And you can even reroll a psychic test while I found out you can't reroll a prayer... lol

BTW, I discovered this trick on reddit. It may solve our problems with overcrowded HQ slots. We can leave aside 55 points and just summon in a herald of Slanaash. She is a psyker that is power level 3. We literally can't fail to summon her. She has just one cast, but that is just right for us to use her to do psychic actions instead of using our Master of possession. And she is cheap at 55 points.

So, hide our MOP comfartably behind obscuring terrain, far back within our deployment zone. Turn 1, don't move him, do the demonic ritual. Summon the herald of slanaash. You can place her within 12 inches of the MOP, so she can be further up (perhaps right behind our terminator bloc?). And then she can just follow our terminator bloc and do warp ritual or mental interrogation. And meanwhile, our MOP can continue to stay far back out of deny range and cast his buff spells at will.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/03 02:03:50


 
   
Made in us
Sinister Chaos Marine





I've been waiting for Chaos to get updated for a while and I'm pretty happy with the new rules, but I'm wondering about a couple things.

For CoB Obliterators attacking with their fists, would they receive the +1S before their fists double the Strength? (S11 or S12?). And, if they were buffed with Mutated Invigoration, would that buff occur before or after the doubling strength?

For MoT, if an enemy wounds the unit with, say, some bolters and a plasmagun or a lascannon, do I get to pick the order that I take those saves? Like, I would get to choose to take the lascannon/plasma gun save first so if it fails the damage becomes 0 instead of a bolter shot becoming damage 0?

Is there anything in the book that allows you to have cultists to fill your compulsory troop choices? Specifically the mutant cultists. I'd really like to have a mutant themed army but it seems, unless I forgo troops altogether, I'll need at least 2x5 Legionaries (+cultists) to fill out the battalion requirements.

I can't find anything on daemon summoning rituals. Is this gone?

I'd like to take what I own and try to turn it into a primarily daemonkin footslogging list as CoB for the movement and strength. I'm wondering what stuff would be worth looking into/considering alongside the basics. I'm also wondering if any of these units are not worth taking because they're overpriced or outshined by something else.

Demon Prince warlord
Master of Possession - Mutated Invigoration, Pact of Flesh
Accursed Cultists & Legionaries - I'd like to deck out the legionaries with the cool chaos stuff like the tome and demon weapon, but reading through this it sounds like a waste of points?
Possessed
Chaos Spawns
Obliterators

I have other stuff, like way too many berserkers, sorcerer, apostle, exalted champ, warp talons, raptors, a chaos dreadnought, way too many terminators--how viable is a 10-man unit of terminators w/o Abaddon? I love terminators but have always felt like they weren't too great, especially in a chaos army. Even though they're not daemonkin, I would certainly consider running a large mob down the center of the board.

I've heard a lot about the Lord Discordant but I'm just not really into any of the daemon engines. The defiler and the heldrake are alright, the other stuff I don't care for. I much prefer predators/land raiders to the daemon engines, or dreadnought-like stuff (decimator), but I don't feel particularly compelled to fill out the army list with vehicles. Should I reconsider and look at combining daemon engines with the daemonkin, or can I get everything I need from the daemonkin + traitor marines?

I saw someone mentioned that Prescience isn't as good because CSM are better at melee, but I'm confused because doesn't Prescience work for both shooting and melee? Couldn't I take a 5-man legionaries unit with the tome and Prescience, cast +1 to hit on the Obliterators on turn 1, and then if the unit survives, cast it again on Possessed when they reach combat? It also adds more Deny attempts since the MoP only gets 1 deny, plus you could have a couple cheap units casting smite. For 20pts you can make the marines sort of like faux grey knights/TSs and you could take the same 1 or 2 spells a couple times so they could be cast from different locations depending on who needs it, and you'd have another unit to cast it if that one dies. For example, 2 5-man units with MoT (or any Mark, really) and Prescience for 250pts total; they can buff a friendly unit with Prescience, or themselves for a 4++, or cast Smite. If one of them dies, you still have Prescience.

Finally, I'm thinking about taking 2 Legionaries units and 1 Accursed Cultist unit for my battalion. Would these be best taken as minimal units or, unlike what I'm hearing about the Legionaries, would it make sense to fill out the cultist unit to 10 & 6 models? It's just always felt kinda lame to spend the minimal amount of points on troops. Some armies seem to do a good job of using their troops as the as like the backbone of their army, but every time I read about Chaos Space Marines the consensus always seems to be to take as few Chaos Space Marines as possible.

Thanks!

Rejoice in the coming oblivion!  
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





Iggy88 wrote:
I've been waiting for Chaos to get updated for a while and I'm pretty happy with the new rules, but I'm wondering about a couple things.

I can't find anything on daemon summoning rituals. Is this gone?

I'd like to take what I own and try to turn it into a primarily daemonkin footslogging list as CoB for the movement and strength. I'm wondering what stuff would be worth looking into/considering alongside the basics. I'm also wondering if any of these units are not worth taking because they're overpriced or outshined by something else.

Demon Prince warlord
Master of Possession - Mutated Invigoration, Pact of Flesh
Accursed Cultists & Legionaries - I'd like to deck out the legionaries with the cool chaos stuff like the tome and demon weapon, but reading through this it sounds like a waste of points?
Possessed
Chaos Spawns
Obliterators


Thanks!


Demon summoning is still around. Its rules are in the chaos demons book. So they are still applicable.

Go ahead and use the units you listed. There isn't really any unit that is so terrible you will shaft yourself badly if you took them. Legionaires are perfectly fine actually. There is nothing wrong with them. I can see a list with what you listed doing fine. Just give it a try!
   
Made in us
Morphing Obliterator





Eldenfirefly wrote:
BTW, I discovered this trick on reddit. It may solve our problems with overcrowded HQ slots. We can leave aside 55 points and just summon in a herald of Slanaash. She is a psyker that is power level 3. We literally can't fail to summon her. She has just one cast, but that is just right for us to use her to do psychic actions instead of using our Master of possession. And she is cheap at 55 points.

So, hide our MOP comfartably behind obscuring terrain, far back within our deployment zone. Turn 1, don't move him, do the demonic ritual. Summon the herald of slanaash. You can place her within 12 inches of the MOP, so she can be further up (perhaps right behind our terminator bloc?). And then she can just follow our terminator bloc and do warp ritual or mental interrogation. And meanwhile, our MOP can continue to stay far back out of deny range and cast his buff spells at will.


Definitely useful for a few more weeks at least until the Daemons codex releases. Daemons leaks look to radically alter the calculus on everything if true. Too many to list here, but worth looking up if you have the time.

"In relating the circumstances which have led to my confinement in this refuge for the demented, I am aware that my present position will create a natural doubt of the authenticity of my narrative."  
   
Made in us
Sinister Chaos Marine





Does the Slaaneshi spell Delightful Agonies work on mortal wounds? Could I give MoS to Legionaries, cast the 5+++ on themselves, and then use the save to mitigate mortal wound damage from MoP sacrificial dagger?

Rejoice in the coming oblivion!  
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

Iggy88 wrote:
Does the Slaaneshi spell Delightful Agonies work on mortal wounds? Could I give MoS to Legionaries, cast the 5+++ on themselves, and then use the save to mitigate mortal wound damage from MoP sacrificial dagger?


Yes, that works.
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





Working on it

I'd like to get some feedback on a Nightlords list I want to try out. I want to maximize the combo of the Night Lord trait with the -1ld from fearsome that some units get. My group has also decided to not implement the CP changes from Nephilim so it's the standard 12CP to start.

Spoiler:

[-4CP, 2,000pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Legion: Night Lords

+ HQ +

Chaos Lord in Terminator Armour [ -1CP, 125pts]: 1. Flames of Spite, Claws of the Stygian Count, Exalted power axe, Gifts of Chaos, Lightning Claw, Mark of Slaanesh, Scourging Chains, Warlord

Master of Possession [ -2CP, 120pts]: 6. Dirty Fighter, Aspiring Lord, Gifts of Chaos, Liber Hereticus, Mark of Slaanesh, Mutated Invigoration, Pact of Flesh

+ Troops +

Accursed Cultists [6 PL, 150pts]
. 10x Mutant: 10x Blasphemous appendages
. 6x Torment: 6x Hideous mutations

Legionaries [6 PL, 100pts]: Chaos Undivided
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. 3x Marine w/ boltgun: 3x Bolt pistol, 3x Boltgun, 3x Frag & Krak grenades
. Marine w/ heavy weapon: Heavy bolter

Legionaries [6 PL, 100pts]: Chaos Undivided
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. 3x Marine w/ boltgun: 3x Bolt pistol, 3x Boltgun, 3x Frag & Krak grenades
. Marine w/ heavy weapon: Heavy bolter

+ Elites +

Chaos Terminator Squad [19 PL, -1CP, 345pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. Chaos Terminator: Accursed weapon, Combi-bolter
. Chaos Terminator: Accursed weapon, Combi-bolter
. Chaos Terminator: Accursed weapon, Combi-bolter
. Chaos Terminator: Accursed weapon, Combi-bolter
. Chaos Terminator: Accursed weapon, Combi-bolter
. Chaos Terminator: Accursed weapon, Combi-bolter
. Chaos Terminator: Accursed weapon, Combi-bolter
. Chaos Terminator: Accursed weapon, Combi-bolter
. Chaos Terminator: Accursed weapon, Combi-bolter
. Terminator Champion: Accursed weapon, Black Rune of Damnation, Combi-bolter, Trophies of the Long War

Possessed [7 PL, 140pts]: Possessed Champion
. 4x Possessed: 4x Hideous mutations

+ Fast Attack +

Chaos Spawn [5 PL, 125pts]
. 5x Chaos Spawn: 5x Hideous mutations

Raptors [6 PL, 105pts]: Chaos Undivided
. 4x Raptor: 4x Astartes chainsword, 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. Raptor Champion: Astartes chainsword, Bolt pistol

Raptors [7 PL, 120pts]: Mark of Khorne
. 4x Raptor: 4x Astartes chainsword, 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. Raptor Champion: Astartes chainsword, Bolt pistol

+ Heavy Support +

Havocs [7 PL, 150pts]: Chaos Undivided
. Havoc Champion: Astartes chainsword, Flamer
. 4x Havoc w/ lascannon: 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Lascannon

Havocs [7 PL, 150pts]: Chaos Undivided
. Havoc Champion: Astartes chainsword, Flamer
. 4x Havoc w/ lascannon: 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Lascannon

Obliterators [15 PL, 270pts]
. 3x Obliterator: 3x Crushing fists, 3x Fleshmetal guns

++ Total: [105 PL, -4CP, 2,000pts] ++


General plan is to keep the havocs and Legionaries back to midfield, Raptors and Obliterators deep strike, possessed, spawn, and Accursed cultists move up the board. The Termi Block does what it does with the MoP, dirty fighter hopefully will help with any chargers and liber hereticus allows the juicy triple cast.

Will probably deep strike the lord but we'll see
   
Made in ca
Waaagh! Warbiker





 TwinPoleTheory wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
A priest is not worth its points. He is way too expensive for one prayer. A tzeentch MoP or sorcerer can cast three psychic powers (with a strat).


I don't disagree entirely, it's an unwieldy unit, especially with the attendants, its combat value is marginal at best. Word Bearers can invest and get 2 prayers per turn and potentially improve its combat potential, so there's that. Furthermore, CSM HQ is heavily impacted already, especially if you're trying to limit yourself to a single detachment.

However, it does provide some buffs that are unavailable anywhere else. As with most things, I suspect it comes down to army composition, legion choice, and tactical preference. Under the right circumstances I suspect it's indispensable.


Its a bit of a shame that he cannot also take liber hereticus to extend his chants by 6. Getting an extra chant would make that relic OP.

Really dumb that most legions cant get this guy to not only know another chant but also cast another chant without serious CP investment. Its a bit of a shame because theres some really fun design space for a slappy priest as with the nurgle daemon weapon as a back up if he ever gets threatened. But if you taking potency you aint taking anything else.

8 attacks that auto wound at -3 AP and D2 ignoring wound caps.
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





Yeah, plus if you want to talk about combat, CSM has lots of other characters that already inherently fight better than the Dark Apostle. So they would benefit even more from melee buffs than the Dark Apostle. Even a master of executions at only 65 points fights much better than a Dark Apostle. Not to mention just about every other non-castor character in the codex fights better than he does at base stats.

So, if you want to spend any kind of CP for relics or warlord traits, its better off spending them on your other characters than on him.
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
I'd like to get some feedback on a Nightlords list I want to try out. I want to maximize the combo of the Night Lord trait with the -1ld from fearsome that some units get. My group has also decided to not implement the CP changes from Nephilim so it's the standard 12CP to start.


You do know that auras with the same name (fearsome and terror tactics) dont stack ?
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





EviscerationPlague wrote:
No gak Sherlock that Power Fists cost points. Still better than being perpetually stuck with Accursed Weapons.


Except the article was highlighting the budget value of Chosen so just tossing PF as a counter and making no comparative analysis doesn't really make sense does it?

Chosen v MEQ

4 * .666 * .666 * .666 = 1.18 / 25 = 0.047

Terminator w/ PF

3 * .5 * .833 * .666 * 2 = 1.66 / 38 = 0.044

Amazing. I'm not sure how I'll get by without power fists.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Daedalus81 wrote:
EviscerationPlague wrote:
No gak Sherlock that Power Fists cost points. Still better than being perpetually stuck with Accursed Weapons.


Except the article was highlighting the budget value of Chosen so just tossing PF as a counter and making no comparative analysis doesn't really make sense does it?

Chosen v MEQ

4 * .666 * .666 * .666 = 1.18 / 25 = 0.047

Terminator w/ PF

3 * .5 * .833 * .666 * 2 = 1.66 / 38 = 0.044

Amazing. I'm not sure how I'll get by without power fists.

You know what's even more budget than Chosen? Spawn.

Chosen have no role and don't need a defense from you LOL
   
Made in es
Dakka Veteran




Do you thing that "generic" zombies would be a reasonable proxy for accursed cultists... After all thats what the datasheet suggest.

Any usefullness on the tabletop doe?
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User




 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
I'd like to get some feedback on a Nightlords list I want to try out. I want to maximize the combo of the Night Lord trait with the -1ld from fearsome that some units get. My group has also decided to not implement the CP changes from Nephilim so it's the standard 12CP to start.

Spoiler:

[-4CP, 2,000pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Legion: Night Lords

+ HQ +

Chaos Lord in Terminator Armour [ -1CP, 125pts]: 1. Flames of Spite, Claws of the Stygian Count, Exalted power axe, Gifts of Chaos, Lightning Claw, Mark of Slaanesh, Scourging Chains, Warlord

Master of Possession [ -2CP, 120pts]: 6. Dirty Fighter, Aspiring Lord, Gifts of Chaos, Liber Hereticus, Mark of Slaanesh, Mutated Invigoration, Pact of Flesh

+ Troops +

Accursed Cultists [6 PL, 150pts]
. 10x Mutant: 10x Blasphemous appendages
. 6x Torment: 6x Hideous mutations

Legionaries [6 PL, 100pts]: Chaos Undivided
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. 3x Marine w/ boltgun: 3x Bolt pistol, 3x Boltgun, 3x Frag & Krak grenades
. Marine w/ heavy weapon: Heavy bolter

Legionaries [6 PL, 100pts]: Chaos Undivided
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. 3x Marine w/ boltgun: 3x Bolt pistol, 3x Boltgun, 3x Frag & Krak grenades
. Marine w/ heavy weapon: Heavy bolter

+ Elites +

Chaos Terminator Squad [19 PL, -1CP, 345pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. Chaos Terminator: Accursed weapon, Combi-bolter
. Chaos Terminator: Accursed weapon, Combi-bolter
. Chaos Terminator: Accursed weapon, Combi-bolter
. Chaos Terminator: Accursed weapon, Combi-bolter
. Chaos Terminator: Accursed weapon, Combi-bolter
. Chaos Terminator: Accursed weapon, Combi-bolter
. Chaos Terminator: Accursed weapon, Combi-bolter
. Chaos Terminator: Accursed weapon, Combi-bolter
. Chaos Terminator: Accursed weapon, Combi-bolter
. Terminator Champion: Accursed weapon, Black Rune of Damnation, Combi-bolter, Trophies of the Long War

Possessed [7 PL, 140pts]: Possessed Champion
. 4x Possessed: 4x Hideous mutations

+ Fast Attack +

Chaos Spawn [5 PL, 125pts]
. 5x Chaos Spawn: 5x Hideous mutations

Raptors [6 PL, 105pts]: Chaos Undivided
. 4x Raptor: 4x Astartes chainsword, 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. Raptor Champion: Astartes chainsword, Bolt pistol

Raptors [7 PL, 120pts]: Mark of Khorne
. 4x Raptor: 4x Astartes chainsword, 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. Raptor Champion: Astartes chainsword, Bolt pistol

+ Heavy Support +

Havocs [7 PL, 150pts]: Chaos Undivided
. Havoc Champion: Astartes chainsword, Flamer
. 4x Havoc w/ lascannon: 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Lascannon

Havocs [7 PL, 150pts]: Chaos Undivided
. Havoc Champion: Astartes chainsword, Flamer
. 4x Havoc w/ lascannon: 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Lascannon

Obliterators [15 PL, 270pts]
. 3x Obliterator: 3x Crushing fists, 3x Fleshmetal guns

++ Total: [105 PL, -4CP, 2,000pts] ++


General plan is to keep the havocs and Legionaries back to midfield, Raptors and Obliterators deep strike, possessed, spawn, and Accursed cultists move up the board. The Termi Block does what it does with the MoP, dirty fighter hopefully will help with any chargers and liber hereticus allows the juicy triple cast.

Will probably deep strike the lord but we'll see



You can take as many Cultist Units as you have CORE Units. So you could pack another 150 points Accursed Cultist unit and a normal Cultist unit for a backfield objective, instead of the Legionaires. In your list you have 5 CORE Units, so you could have 5 Cultist Units.
Pro-Tip: Cultist Champion can take Bolt Pistol - strength 4. My cultists actually killed a dude with it first time in forever.

Get rid of the flamer on your Havocs and one spawn and pack 4 combimelta and 2 heavyflamer and one chain fist on the champ. That way they are a unit that does damage and needs to be taken care of.

Then you bring them in with from the night 9 inch from weak enemy troops 24 inches within your mop. You flame and melta around. Your Accursed Cultists follow up. You try and fail the charge your enemies weak troops fail moral. turn your enemy charges your terminator with something nice. They stand cuz of buffs. Your second turn, you underhand scheming 1 CP away and fall back closer to his running away screaming weak troops. You charge them with your terminators while your Accursed Cultists charge his good troups and block charge possibilities to your terminators. Your Terminator Lord comes in and fails his charge. You sound the black hunt with your terminators and kill his remaining weak troops.

His second turn is getting a hold of your terminators to tangle them or shoot them which you protected again or pushes deep into your backfield - but that doesn't matter, as it is a hunt and in a hunt you don't defend.

In your third turn you turn around and contempt over caution for 1 CP all your shooting in his good troops tangled with your Accursed Cultists and go for more juicy weak troops to bring the fear into his lines with your lord and terminators or charge his good troops, but that the greater Possessed and obliterators can do. As it is more important to hunt his troops to the ends of the battlefield and purge them from objective markers.
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User




Iggy88 wrote:
I've been waiting for Chaos to get updated for a while and I'm pretty happy with the new rules, but I'm wondering about a couple things.

For CoB Obliterators attacking with their fists, would they receive the +1S before their fists double the Strength? (S11 or S12?). And, if they were buffed with Mutated Invigoration, would that buff occur before or after the doubling strength?

For MoT, if an enemy wounds the unit with, say, some bolters and a plasmagun or a lascannon, do I get to pick the order that I take those saves? Like, I would get to choose to take the lascannon/plasma gun save first so if it fails the damage becomes 0 instead of a bolter shot becoming damage 0?

Is there anything in the book that allows you to have cultists to fill your compulsory troop choices? Specifically the mutant cultists. I'd really like to have a mutant themed army but it seems, unless I forgo troops altogether, I'll need at least 2x5 Legionaries (+cultists) to fill out the battalion requirements.

I can't find anything on daemon summoning rituals. Is this gone?

I'd like to take what I own and try to turn it into a primarily daemonkin footslogging list as CoB for the movement and strength. I'm wondering what stuff would be worth looking into/considering alongside the basics. I'm also wondering if any of these units are not worth taking because they're overpriced or outshined by something else.

Demon Prince warlord
Master of Possession - Mutated Invigoration, Pact of Flesh
Accursed Cultists & Legionaries - I'd like to deck out the legionaries with the cool chaos stuff like the tome and demon weapon, but reading through this it sounds like a waste of points?
Possessed
Chaos Spawns
Obliterators

I have other stuff, like way too many berserkers, sorcerer, apostle, exalted champ, warp talons, raptors, a chaos dreadnought, way too many terminators--how viable is a 10-man unit of terminators w/o Abaddon? I love terminators but have always felt like they weren't too great, especially in a chaos army. Even though they're not daemonkin, I would certainly consider running a large mob down the center of the board.

I've heard a lot about the Lord Discordant but I'm just not really into any of the daemon engines. The defiler and the heldrake are alright, the other stuff I don't care for. I much prefer predators/land raiders to the daemon engines, or dreadnought-like stuff (decimator), but I don't feel particularly compelled to fill out the army list with vehicles. Should I reconsider and look at combining daemon engines with the daemonkin, or can I get everything I need from the daemonkin + traitor marines?

I saw someone mentioned that Prescience isn't as good because CSM are better at melee, but I'm confused because doesn't Prescience work for both shooting and melee? Couldn't I take a 5-man legionaries unit with the tome and Prescience, cast +1 to hit on the Obliterators on turn 1, and then if the unit survives, cast it again on Possessed when they reach combat? It also adds more Deny attempts since the MoP only gets 1 deny, plus you could have a couple cheap units casting smite. For 20pts you can make the marines sort of like faux grey knights/TSs and you could take the same 1 or 2 spells a couple times so they could be cast from different locations depending on who needs it, and you'd have another unit to cast it if that one dies. For example, 2 5-man units with MoT (or any Mark, really) and Prescience for 250pts total; they can buff a friendly unit with Prescience, or themselves for a 4++, or cast Smite. If one of them dies, you still have Prescience.

Finally, I'm thinking about taking 2 Legionaries units and 1 Accursed Cultist unit for my battalion. Would these be best taken as minimal units or, unlike what I'm hearing about the Legionaries, would it make sense to fill out the cultist unit to 10 & 6 models? It's just always felt kinda lame to spend the minimal amount of points on troops. Some armies seem to do a good job of using their troops as the as like the backbone of their army, but every time I read about Chaos Space Marines the consensus always seems to be to take as few Chaos Space Marines as possible.

Thanks!


1.
You can take as many Cultist Units as you have CORE Units. So Havocs, Terminators, Raptors

2.
Your opponent shoots his weapons, so when he shot bolter first, then you need to roll against bolter.

3. Prescience not that important any more, because unmodified 6es explode. Not boosted ones as in 8th edition. Otherwise prescience still fine.

4. First the strength is on, and the mutated invigoration as it is from the psychic phase and then it gets doubled. I would say.

5. People not feeling psychers in Legionaires, as it is 40 points for guy and tome and it can be shot of in a round even if they are nurgle.

6. I would go for 5 man squads, I tried 10 man Legionaires in an attempt to create a Battalion list I call Abadons Legionado (all rights reserved) and I couldn't hid them because 10 guys take so much space and they got shot of the table one after another even when they were nurgle.

What would Wally the World Eater do? 
   
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Fip wrote:

1.
You can take as many Cultist Units as you have CORE Units. So Havocs, Terminators, Raptors

2.
Your opponent shoots his weapons, so when he shot bolter first, then you need to roll against bolter.

3. Prescience not that important any more, because unmodified 6es explode. Not boosted ones as in 8th edition. Otherwise prescience still fine.

4. First the strength is on, and the mutated invigoration as it is from the psychic phase and then it gets doubled. I would say.

5. People not feeling psychers in Legionaires, as it is 40 points for guy and tome and it can be shot of in a round even if they are nurgle.

6. I would go for 5 man squads, I tried 10 man Legionaires in an attempt to create a Battalion list I call Abadons Legionado (all rights reserved) and I couldn't hid them because 10 guys take so much space and they got shot of the table one after another even when they were nurgle.


1. Not true. You cant have more cultists than infantry. Core has nothing to do with this.
2. The player who contols the unit allocates wounds to a (already wounded) model in the unit. A smart opponent will shoot his bolter first, making your tzeentch mark useless against a heavy weapon which he shoots later, because the mark only works on the first failed saving throw.
3. +1 to hit is much more important than 6s do additional hits.
4. Its all described in the core rules, modifying characteristics.
5. I think 40 points for a protected psyker is fair.
6. Yes, 5 man squads. Keep them cheap.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/04 10:37:47


 
   
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Working on it

Spoiler:
p5freak wrote:
 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
I'd like to get some feedback on a Nightlords list I want to try out. I want to maximize the combo of the Night Lord trait with the -1ld from fearsome that some units get. My group has also decided to not implement the CP changes from Nephilim so it's the standard 12CP to start.


You do know that auras with the same name (fearsome and terror tactics) dont stack ?


But the names and abilities are different? Is there an FAQ I missed that states this doesn't work? Genuinely curious because I haven't seen anyone suggest this yet.


Spoiler:
Fip wrote:
 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
I'd like to get some feedback on a Nightlords list I want to try out. I want to maximize the combo of the Night Lord trait with the -1ld from fearsome that some units get. My group has also decided to not implement the CP changes from Nephilim so it's the standard 12CP to start.

[spoiler]
[-4CP, 2,000pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Legion: Night Lords

+ HQ +

Chaos Lord in Terminator Armour [ -1CP, 125pts]: 1. Flames of Spite, Claws of the Stygian Count, Exalted power axe, Gifts of Chaos, Lightning Claw, Mark of Slaanesh, Scourging Chains, Warlord

Master of Possession [ -2CP, 120pts]: 6. Dirty Fighter, Aspiring Lord, Gifts of Chaos, Liber Hereticus, Mark of Slaanesh, Mutated Invigoration, Pact of Flesh

+ Troops +

Accursed Cultists [6 PL, 150pts]
. 10x Mutant: 10x Blasphemous appendages
. 6x Torment: 6x Hideous mutations

Legionaries [6 PL, 100pts]: Chaos Undivided
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. 3x Marine w/ boltgun: 3x Bolt pistol, 3x Boltgun, 3x Frag & Krak grenades
. Marine w/ heavy weapon: Heavy bolter

Legionaries [6 PL, 100pts]: Chaos Undivided
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. 3x Marine w/ boltgun: 3x Bolt pistol, 3x Boltgun, 3x Frag & Krak grenades
. Marine w/ heavy weapon: Heavy bolter

+ Elites +

Chaos Terminator Squad [19 PL, -1CP, 345pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. Chaos Terminator: Accursed weapon, Combi-bolter
. Chaos Terminator: Accursed weapon, Combi-bolter
. Chaos Terminator: Accursed weapon, Combi-bolter
. Chaos Terminator: Accursed weapon, Combi-bolter
. Chaos Terminator: Accursed weapon, Combi-bolter
. Chaos Terminator: Accursed weapon, Combi-bolter
. Chaos Terminator: Accursed weapon, Combi-bolter
. Chaos Terminator: Accursed weapon, Combi-bolter
. Chaos Terminator: Accursed weapon, Combi-bolter
. Terminator Champion: Accursed weapon, Black Rune of Damnation, Combi-bolter, Trophies of the Long War

Possessed [7 PL, 140pts]: Possessed Champion
. 4x Possessed: 4x Hideous mutations

+ Fast Attack +

Chaos Spawn [5 PL, 125pts]
. 5x Chaos Spawn: 5x Hideous mutations

Raptors [6 PL, 105pts]: Chaos Undivided
. 4x Raptor: 4x Astartes chainsword, 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. Raptor Champion: Astartes chainsword, Bolt pistol

Raptors [7 PL, 120pts]: Mark of Khorne
. 4x Raptor: 4x Astartes chainsword, 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. Raptor Champion: Astartes chainsword, Bolt pistol

+ Heavy Support +

Havocs [7 PL, 150pts]: Chaos Undivided
. Havoc Champion: Astartes chainsword, Flamer
. 4x Havoc w/ lascannon: 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Lascannon

Havocs [7 PL, 150pts]: Chaos Undivided
. Havoc Champion: Astartes chainsword, Flamer
. 4x Havoc w/ lascannon: 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Lascannon

Obliterators [15 PL, 270pts]
. 3x Obliterator: 3x Crushing fists, 3x Fleshmetal guns

++ Total: [105 PL, -4CP, 2,000pts] ++


General plan is to keep the havocs and Legionaries back to midfield, Raptors and Obliterators deep strike, possessed, spawn, and Accursed cultists move up the board. The Termi Block does what it does with the MoP, dirty fighter hopefully will help with any chargers and liber hereticus allows the juicy triple cast.

Will probably deep strike the lord but we'll see



You can take as many Cultist Units as you have CORE Units. So you could pack another 150 points Accursed Cultist unit and a normal Cultist unit for a backfield objective, instead of the Legionaires. In your list you have 5 CORE Units, so you could have 5 Cultist Units.
Pro-Tip: Cultist Champion can take Bolt Pistol - strength 4. My cultists actually killed a dude with it first time in forever.

Get rid of the flamer on your Havocs and one spawn and pack 4 combimelta and 2 heavyflamer and one chain fist on the champ. That way they are a unit that does damage and needs to be taken care of.

Then you bring them in with from the night 9 inch from weak enemy troops 24 inches within your mop. You flame and melta around. Your Accursed Cultists follow up. You try and fail the charge your enemies weak troops fail moral. turn your enemy charges your terminator with something nice. They stand cuz of buffs. Your second turn, you underhand scheming 1 CP away and fall back closer to his running away screaming weak troops. You charge them with your terminators while your Accursed Cultists charge his good troups and block charge possibilities to your terminators. Your Terminator Lord comes in and fails his charge. You sound the black hunt with your terminators and kill his remaining weak troops.

His second turn is getting a hold of your terminators to tangle them or shoot them which you protected again or pushes deep into your backfield - but that doesn't matter, as it is a hunt and in a hunt you don't defend.

In your third turn you turn around and contempt over caution for 1 CP all your shooting in his good troops tangled with your Accursed Cultists and go for more juicy weak troops to bring the fear into his lines with your lord and terminators or charge his good troops, but that the greater Possessed and obliterators can do. As it is more important to hunt his troops to the ends of the battlefield and purge them from objective markers.


Investing in the termies is an interesting idea, I'm using the contekars as a proxy hence the basic loadout, but I'll give this build a try!

Also as for Cultists over legionaires I'm worries that it might make my backfield too weak, if my opponent despstrikes anything the cultists will just be swept away. 5 Legionaries may not be super durable but I think they'd stand a better chance.

I am curious to see how the Accursed cultists perform though, I'll see if I can make points for a second squad

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/04 13:26:33


 
   
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 Daedalus81 wrote:
Except the article was highlighting the budget value of Chosen so just tossing PF as a counter and making no comparative analysis doesn't really make sense does it?

Chosen v MEQ

4 * .666 * .666 * .666 = 1.18 / 25 = 0.047

Terminator w/ PF

3 * .5 * .833 * .666 * 2 = 1.66 / 38 = 0.044

Amazing. I'm not sure how I'll get by without power fists.


EC changes the calculus a bit on that. Again, a lot of the CSM choices come down to legion, playstyle, and preference. I mean, at the end of the day, it's the Abaddon fan club codex, so if you're playing anything other than Abaddon/BL you're going to have to work a bit harder to get your full mileage, but there's some options out there, as long as you're not new to the faction, in which case, GW can't even be bothered to support getting into the army.

"In relating the circumstances which have led to my confinement in this refuge for the demented, I am aware that my present position will create a natural doubt of the authenticity of my narrative."  
   
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What proxy could you use for torments if you didnt wanted to buy GW offcial kit?

It dosent need to be a GW mini.

Thanks in advance.
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User




 p5freak wrote:
Fip wrote:

1.
You can take as many Cultist Units as you have CORE Units. So Havocs, Terminators, Raptors

2.
Your opponent shoots his weapons, so when he shot bolter first, then you need to roll against bolter.

3. Prescience not that important any more, because unmodified 6es explode. Not boosted ones as in 8th edition. Otherwise prescience still fine.

4. First the strength is on, and the mutated invigoration as it is from the psychic phase and then it gets doubled. I would say.

5. People not feeling psychers in Legionaires, as it is 40 points for guy and tome and it can be shot of in a round even if they are nurgle.

6. I would go for 5 man squads, I tried 10 man Legionaires in an attempt to create a Battalion list I call Abadons Legionado (all rights reserved) and I couldn't hid them because 10 guys take so much space and they got shot of the table one after another even when they were nurgle.


1. Not true. You cant have more cultists than infantry. Core has nothing to do with this.
2. The player who contols the unit allocates wounds to a (already wounded) model in the unit. A smart opponent will shoot his bolter first, making your tzeentch mark useless against a heavy weapon which he shoots later, because the mark only works on the first failed saving throw.
3. +1 to hit is much more important than 6s do additional hits.
4. Its all described in the core rules, modifying characteristics.
5. I think 40 points for a protected psyker is fair.
6. Yes, 5 man squads. Keep them cheap.


1. Page 76: "You cannot include more Cultist Units than traitoris Astartes core infantry in each chaos space marines detachment"

3. Page 145 it always is an unmodified hit roll of 6 in each wanton. +1 to hit equals extra hits on 6, as both increase hits by ~17%. It is more, when you play against an enemy with priest with illusory supplicant. Because then hit rolls of 1-3 always fail, even with +1.

What would Wally the World Eater do? 
   
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[wrong topic sorry]

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/04 22:01:55


 
   
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Vatsetis wrote:
What proxy could you use for torments if you didnt wanted to buy GW offcial kit?

It dosent need to be a GW mini.

Thanks in advance.


I was planning to use some of the minis from the Cthulhu Wars games that I have regardless, if I decide to field them at all. Might actually motivate me to paint them.

https://petersengames.com/cw-miniatures/

There's a number of models in the line that would work well.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/04 23:04:32


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The Realm of Hungry Ghosts

 p5freak wrote:
Iggy88 wrote:
Does the Slaaneshi spell Delightful Agonies work on mortal wounds? Could I give MoS to Legionaries, cast the 5+++ on themselves, and then use the save to mitigate mortal wound damage from MoP sacrificial dagger?


Yes, that works.


But it's worth noting that you won't be able to use your 5+++ against the dagger if you're using the dagger to cast Delightful Agonies. The 5+++ won't come into effect until after you've completed the casting roll. It'll be there if you're using the dagger for the next cast.

Bharring wrote:
At worst, you'll spend all your time and money on a hobby you don't enjoy, hate everything you're doing, and drive no value out of what should be the best times of your life.
 
   
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Germany

Fip wrote:

1. Page 76: "You cannot include more Cultist Units than traitoris Astartes core infantry in each chaos space marines detachment"


You said core, which is incorrect. Bikers and helbrutes are core. You cant have two cultist units and two helbrutes, or two biker units. It has to be traitoris astartes core infantry.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 p5freak wrote:
Fip wrote:

1. Page 76: "You cannot include more Cultist Units than traitoris Astartes core infantry in each chaos space marines detachment"


You said core, which is incorrect. Bikers and helbrutes are core. You cant have two cultist units and two helbrutes, or two biker units. It has to be traitoris astartes core infantry.

Which is absolute dumbassery on the writers
   
 
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