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I came up against a Blood Angel/Dark Angel termie deathstar list this weekend. The DA blob had mostly th/ss with a librarian, a character, and a guy with lightening claws. They also had FNP and a thing that made me re-roll my saves.
I threw my Wraiths at them, which bought me a few turns. Besides just lots of fire or running away does anyone have strategies for Necrons against this kind of obstacle.

Thanks!

I use a monolith to worry them. A doomsday Ark will force invulnerable saves. Lychguard plus a tricked out lord will soak up a ton of wounds and force 1-3 inv saves a round.

Honestly you're going to end up playing their game if you get into h2h.

Eldritch lances or doomsday arks are best bet.

The best way to beat th/ss terms is massed attacks. Beating the 2+ armor still leaves a 3++, and its hard to field enough ap2 weapons to make that happen. Tesla destructors pile on the wounds, 4 of them from a mix of flyers and annihilation barges will whittle down the death star in about 2 turns, and wraiths can mop up. Fielding stuff you wouldn't normally, like doomsday arks, isn't a good solution.

Necrons can easily destroy termie deathstars that aren't spectacularly lucky. Just spam Tesla shots from immortals/barges/fliers. Unfortunately terminator deathstars aren't particularly fast.

For some somewhat unconventional advice, Necrons can field one of the best counter-deathstars in the game. Although expensive, a fully tricked out Royal Court with Scythes and MSS will make short work of most deathstars, and are particularly effective against TH/SS Termies because 1) They easily wound at a higher initiative and 2) They can use MSS to cause about half of the unit to turn on the other half (The average rolled on 3D6 is about a 10.5, meaning that even if the Termies are given LD10, they will still fail MSS about half the time).

Emperor awfulness wrote:
The best way to beat th/ss terms is massed attacks. Beating the 2+ armor still leaves a 3++, and its hard to field enough ap2 weapons to make that happen. Tesla destructors pile on the wounds, 4 of them from a mix of flyers and annihilation barges will whittle down the death star in about 2 turns, and wraiths can mop up. Fielding stuff you wouldn't normally, like doomsday arks, isn't a good solution.

Not really, if you have two overlords you can easily have ten AP2 weapons via 2x5 destruct-teks.

Given the points you could have 9 more heavy D's.

Three triarch stalkers with Heavy Gauss or Melta (melta is 2 shot too)

Then you have Doom Scythes or Doomsday Arks.

Tachyon arrows too if you want.

Add in the C'tan lightning bolt.

Oh and all that will ignore the FNP the termies would get as well. A termie unit with FNP is worse to fight against than necrons.

*edit*
Oh ya, if you have zahndrekh and a big unit of warscythe wielders you could make them str 8 on the charge, ignoring armor and FNP as well.

I run a list with a lot of eldritch lances. My GK friend doesn't like this very much as his termites almost never get to do anything. Of course, he only gets a 5++. 3++ should get the unit further the field. Just have to start hoping that Tesla rolls a lot of sixes.

The things necrons bring that make my 10man block of TH/SS terms worry are the lychguard stars. Sword and board with 2 lords with mind shackles and a few scythes.

3 things:

1. Triarch Stalker. Light 'em up so the rest of your stuff gets twin-linked. The melta gun isn't bad, either.

2. A string of throwaway units. Feed them one at a time (make him charge you) and shoot in between.

3. Doom Scythes. They're good enough otherwise that you won't regret taking them against other things (unlike, IMO, Doomsday Arks), and if the deathstar's bunched up (as it likely is after crushing one of your throwaway units) you can get a bunch of hits.

I wouldn't take a counter-deathstar, like some people have suggested. It won't be much good against other things and it will likely cost as much as the thing you're trying to kill (which is much more versatile).

Some good throw away troops, like 2 units of 5 deathmarks, with a couple flamer template Crypteks. Use them as speed bumps and precision shots to take down the chars.... Deliver these with 2 Night scythe, and TESLA the tar out of them before they assault your troops. Of MSU warriors, use them as complete throwaways.

JonnyB wrote:
Some good throw away troops, like 2 units of 5 deathmarks, with a couple flamer template Crypteks. Use them as speed bumps and precision shots to take down the chars.... Deliver these with 2 Night scythe, and TESLA the tar out of them before they assault your troops. Of MSU warriors, use them as complete throwaways.

While the flame template is good, it won't negate FNP.

Don't you have a huge battle tank thing that drops a giant S:10 AP1 or 2 ordnance template? I think its called a doomsday ark or something?

Mindshackle scarabs are great, as you can make one of those ultra-tough Termies smack his buddies about a bit.

Otherwise, I'll echo the advice to take lots of Tesla shots. Immortals would be good for this I think, as they're the cheapest/most numerous option.

Last tip - if you pull off any placed shots, go for the Apothecary (that's the guy giving out FNP). Take him out and FNP disappears, making your job much easier.

Kevlar wrote:
Don't you have a huge battle tank thing that drops a giant S:10 AP1 or 2 ordnance template? I think its called a doomsday ark or something?

You mean the open topped skimmer that can't move or else it doesn't get to fire at full effect? Ya.

Also it's Str 9, AP 1, no ordnance. 72" range though.

If it moves it's....considerably less useful.

Spam S8 AP2 to deny armor and FNP. Lance-courts, Heavy Gauss Cannons, Doomsday Cannons, and Death Rays all fit the bill.

Alternatively, drown them in small arms fire. He'll fail those 2+ saves eventually. Big blocks of Warriors backed up with Ghost Arks, Scarabs, anything Tesla are all great here. This is also actually one of the only times I'd advocate the use of Flayed Ones. A big block of 20 that gets the charge is pumping out 80 WS4 S4 attacks, which works out to about 3 or 4 dead terminators. Not sure how many Termies he's packing, but if it's only 5 that's gonna smart.

Wraiths will usually lose against TH/SS Terminators, simply because you aren't ignoring armor (most of the time) and their strikes cause Instant Death.

6 wraiths will hit about 12 times on the charge, rend twice, and put 8 normal wounds out. That's typically three dead terminators, the survivors will only get a few swings, less hits, and a handful of wounds. You might lose a wraith, but 3++ is a good save.

Emperor awfulness wrote:
6 wraiths will hit about 12 times on the charge, rend twice, and put 8 normal wounds out. That's typically three dead terminators, the survivors will only get a few swings, less hits, and a handful of wounds. You might lose a wraith, but 3++ is a good save.

A 2+ is a better save, terminators ID the wraiths, and even the rends get a 5+ save. In my experience terminators are more than a match for wraiths. TH&SS even more so.

I've had success against a similar deathstar using a C'Tan Shard with Gaze of Death.

Might be because my opponents tend to overestimate the C'Tan's effectivness, but they throw plently of CC at it. Ironically this makes it more effective due to the big template and its eventual deathsplosion. No doubt somone who is more competitive would have a more effective way to neutralise the Shard

Deathmarks accompanied by abyssal staff crypteks own any deathstar.

I'm running melee necrons.
2 over lords, 10 lords, 4 crypteks (2 deep strike, 2 night fight), 6 units of 5 warriors, 2x wraiths, 2x scythes, and scarabs.

Typically I put 2 lords into each of 5 warrior units, and toss in the overlords as well. That leaves 5 lone warriors to go to ground on the backfield objective, 2 the deep strike, 2 in transports, and one walking.

With 12 shackles in the list, I'd dual charge 2 units into the death star. 4-6 mind shackle tests and 12 to 20 S7 AP1 attacks. I pile as many warriors into base to base as possible, and take the hits on them first. Typically I do a ton of damage, and usually win or lose combat in the first round by a single point, losing ~5 or 6 warriors in the process, of which ~2 get back up. The net effect is an even trade of terminator for necron warrior. The necrons win the grind.

-Matt

Should have clarified: this is like 10 termies with an HQ and an apothacary (or close to that, I don't play marines).
Great advice.
What all negates FNP and why. I am shady on that.
Also, I can basically field anything Necron, as my army is disgustingly huge. I only have 3 fliers though.
Thanks!

If they are playing Deathwing (DA) Termies, which is the only way to get an apothecary, they can't expand past 5-man squads, so it was either 2 squads, or he was cheating. But that's 500-600 points in the Deathstar, so you probably can devote a big chunk of your army to repelling it safely.

FNP is negated by instant death attacks, which will be the S8+ shooting you can put out, most likely.

The Royal Court Deathstar will do pretty well, but I doubt you want to devote 500+ points to tricking out Lords and Crypteks with all of the other toys Necrons bring.

To extrapolate: FNP is negated by Wounds that cause the Instant Death effect. You're causing ID wounds when you're using a weapon whose strength is double (or more) the target's Toughness. In the case of Space Marine Terminators (Toughness 4 unless shenanigans or SCs), anything S8 or higher causes ID.

The list in question was a DA/BA allies list. I know the unit had more than 5. It was part of a group game, so there was alot going on and I am not familiar with either of those codecies, as he is the first person I have played against that runs them. I'm pretty sure the unit in question was DA. Is it possible that the IC from the ally list joined the unit?
I'll message him tonight to get clarity on that list. He plays at a very competative store, so I'm pretty sure, whatever it is, that its legal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok it was Belial as Warlord with a 10 man th/ss squad, an apothacary upgrade, and a Librarian.
He had 2, 5 man tac squads for min troop choice and if he was running his full list he also had BA termie blob (I think) with a Sangunary Priest (?). Sanguinary Guard?
Oh, and he had a 5 man tactical termie squad that he deep struck.

It was a team game,but that is near what his full list is (the BA were cut out).
My 2k list was:
2 x 10 Tesla Immortals with an orb lord and one with Obyron.
2 x 9 Warriors in Arks, one with Zanderehk and one with an orb lord.
2 x Anni Barges
1 x Canoptik Spyder with fab array
1 x 6 Wraiths, 3 Whip Coils
1 x 6 Deathmarks with Despairtek.

Royal Disco Inferno is a fun (and really expensive) way to take care of Deathstars in general (MSS is so much fun).

How did you have problems against a deathstar with Obyron in your army? Obyron is amazing vs MEQ. Cleaving Counterblow and Furious Charge are very very likely to give you +10 attacks and 8 str on the charge. If your worried about any ap 2 weapons, you can just use the precision strikes that you are likely to generate from cleaving counterblow to annihilate this problem.

 sounddemon wrote:
How did you have problems against a deathstar with Obyron in your army? Obyron is amazing vs MEQ. Cleaving Counterblow and Furious Charge are very very likely to give you +10 attacks and 8 str on the charge

Cleaving Counterblow doesn't work against Thunder hammers.

That being the case, the Necron solution to deathstars is unironically the same as their solution to everything else: mass firepower. If you make anything roll enough saves, it dies.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 sounddemon wrote:
How did you have problems against a deathstar with Obyron in your army? Obyron is amazing vs MEQ. Cleaving Counterblow and Furious Charge are very very likely to give you +10 attacks and 8 str on the charge

Cleaving Counterblow doesn't work against Thunder hammers.

That being the case, the Necron solution to deathstars is unironically the same as their solution to everything else: mass firepower. If you make anything roll enough saves, it dies.

While volume of firepower is a possible solution to the terminator problem, it is unreliable.. It is more reliable and more consistent to just use Eldritch Lances from HoD or the deathmark combo with HoD with abyssal staffs. You could be killing something else with all those wasted shots. I've gone against a 600 point thunderwolf cav deathstar fully equpped with storm shields and wiped them off the table using Deathmarks and two HoD on the second turn. If your looking for an anti deathstar killer, get deathmarks they are highly effective and cheap on points.

So, lets look at termies.

* Slow, and large units cannot take a transport as such.
* Tough, allways 2+/5++ as basic.
* Really hard hitting, but usually strike last.
* Not the best shooting, and if its THSS termies then no shooting.


Simply work out an effective list as an all commers, no point adding in units or changing your army to fight it.
They are very slow, but hit like a hammer (funny that?)
Simply keep out of thier way, keep moving and keep shooting.

Veils are pretty damn good for this.
Just take your usual list, but make sure you have a veiltek in a unit of 10 gauss immortals.
The Phaeron upgrade is also pretty useful for the unit if you want to throw the lord into it.
Simply unleash everything, then jump as soon as they get close.

Failing that, doom scythes cut through them pretty damn easily and leave them with a ++ save only.

Or, if you want cheese, run a flyer list and laugh as that huge point sink of a deathstar cant hurt anything.

Thanks everybody for the responses. Reflection is key to growth, and the collective "wisdom in the room" highlights the better part of a forum like this.
So, what I take away:
1. A better understanding of flier advantage. I only field things that are painted, and I have only 1 of 3 Doomscythes painted. I gotta get to work!
2. STR 8 attacks are really good v marines.
3. Lycheguard can be their own "deathstar."

This is in addition to my basic motto: Shoot, shoot, shoot, don't ask questions...