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So I hate losing but love the look of Dark Eldar.
Is it a bad idea to start a DE army because they lose
a lot?
What has changed in 6th Edition to make them more or
less competitive?

Well yeah they do take some time to learn to play properly. I would not recommend them as a first army because they are too unforgiving. On the other hand, if they appeal most to you and you are willing to put in some serious time to figure them out you should just go for it!

Sixth ed. made shooting even more important and that's something dark eldar are pretty good at. Jink saves for our transports are really good too, as are our flyers. Assault got nerfed overall (even with incubi klaives being ap2 still). Wyches are a very cool way of wrecking vehicles now though, just give them a couple of haywire grenades and let them assault vehicles.

Depends on how much you hate losing, and how easily you'd be able to adapt to their play style. If you are good at outmanuevering your opponent, you should't have too much trouble getting used to Dark Eldar, and so you won't lose as many games. A good way to learn is to watch battle reports and see what others do with their armies. Which tactics work best, which units are most effective, which armies will be hardest for you to deal with and so on. This will hopefully give you a better feel for the army without you having to lose tons and tons of games.

From what I understand, DE got nerved in 6th edition, as assault took a hit, and web way portals are now far less useful. I would still say that their about a mid-tier codex though, with some great shooting elements, so they definitely aren't the worst army out there.

You will struggle, yes. Chances are, if you hate losing enough to post online about your concerns, it'll be too much for you. Pick a better army, imho.

For starters, what do you like about DE? Lets see if we can't find it in a more user-friendly army?

Dark eldar in capable hands don't lose a lot, but in newbie or less capable hands, they do. I started with a DE army and I did lose a lot, wasn't sure what to get to expand my army, wasn't sure which unit is good.

The reason that they're particularly hard to play is that they're full 100% offensive and -100% defensive, it's really hard, as a newbie, to grasp the idea behind target priority, how to fully use terrain well, etc.. And doubly more so as DE relies heavily on tactics to win, because otherwise they just get shot up by that one single bad move you made.

Army-wise, they're still considered the higher tier army(judging from dakkaites in that army tier thread a while ago), their shooting side is certainly better than before, their assault side got a full overhaul, some units got worse, the rest has to rethink how they're being played, WWP got basically reduced to point void. But whoever told you that DE lost a lot only meant that for a newbie, you'll lose a lot, once you've gotten better, the army is still very strong.

Well Ive been really liking GK Just because they remind me of crusaders and I love the dreadknight and terminators.

Thx1138 wrote:
Well Ive been really liking GK Just because they remind me of crusaders and I love the dreadknight and terminators.

See? This we can work with.

Have you read any of the common builds?

Judging by your post, it sounds like you may want a Draigostar army.

Lots of Paladins, Draigo, couple rifleman dreads, and sure, toss in a dreadknight to kick some stuff around.

That's an army that will win you some games.

DE are fun but need skill to get the most out of them. I lost a lot. Main opponent being space wolves and long fang spam and ruin priests with all their wackiness. That fun aspect quickly dwindles when the loss/win ratio stacks.

DE are made of glass, pure and simple.
A single mistake can be turned around, but more than that will cost you a game with them.
It might be worth picking up the codex and looking for some batreps on dakka with them, that should give you some insight on how they work and how best to use them.
Not to mention an idea on a solid list.

GK on the other hand, ive seen a newer gamer beat a vet without many issues.
They have a solid, up to date book with alot of strong builds.
You will win alot more games with them to start with than you will with DE.

If you're only concerned about winning, DE is not the army to start with.

Hell, even if you've played for a few years, chances are you'll lose more battles than you'll win when you start with DE.

Go with grey knights if you want easy wins, yeah.

Starting out with DE it's a bit hard to get the feel of the army. It's important to realize that you have to go balls out, brutal, kill everything on the board.

DO NOT SIT ON OBJECTIVES UNTIL TURN 4 AT THE EARLIEST.

If you're sitting on objectives you're not killing the enemy. In 6th ed you can travel 12-24" easily per turn with your skimmers, so you shouldn't worry about defending anything until late game.

In 6th shooty DE got a big boost.

One of the things that helped me have a 12 win 7 loss record with the DE was the mind shift into a DE fluff game where I was a raider coming in to do the most possible damage to the enemy without caring about the mission.

Start with something easier to learn, definitely; Space Marine or Chaos armies tend to be the easiest to get started with for a beginner (don't follow my example; I started with Craftworld Eldar and didn't win a game for years). If you're still set on Dark Eldar I can offer a few pieces of advice:

First, transports. ALWAYS take transports. Raiders, Venoms, doesn't matter, every single foot unit in your army must have a ride.

Second, speed. A wise man who suffered through the 3e DE book for a long time once said that Dark Eldar are like sharks: they stop moving, they die. Don't let yourself get tied down, you can outrun virtually every army the other guy can throw at you (maybe not Saim-Hann or airborne Guard, but we'll get to that), which means you can run around their flanks and pick off isolated units. You also have 36" turbo-boosting Jetbikes and some really pretty nasty flyers to choose from, use them.

Third, application of force: you've got a fairly fragile force, meaning that if you get in a straight-up punching match you're going to lose. Fight dirty; let the other guy overextend himself chasing you, then use your superior speed to pounce on isolated units with everything you've got.

Most of this is academic; my Dark Eldar force is mostly unassembled right now and I haven't played any proper games with it yet. People with experience with the list can tell you if I'm being helpful or if I'm talking out my ass.

Out of 20 or so games with Dark Eldar, I have lost 3 times. They are extremely powerful if you build them and play them correctly.

But, and it is a big but, they do require finese and tactics to use properly. They are more of a veteran army, and I would only choose them
as a first army if you are prepared to go thru the school of hard knocks learning how to use them. You need to study tactics, lists, and battle reports to
understand them. They are very fun to play once you "get them down".

Dear god are you guys actually trying to turn a prospective DE player into a Grey Knight player!?


OP play what you want. 40k isn't that complicated of a game, don't base your decision on weather or not DE might be hard at first. Collect the army you like the best and want to spend hours painting.

orkybenji wrote:
Dear god are you guys actually trying to turn a prospective DE player into a Grey Knight player!?

I don't see why that's a bad thing, if he's truly looking for an army that can be easy to play as a beginner, then a strong army like GK is the one for him. It's not like DE is some sorta cult which we, the DE players, gain some mystical power as our cult expands... It's that or I've been forgetting to claim my mystical powers.

orkybenji wrote:
Dear god are you guys actually trying to turn a prospective DE player into a Grey Knight player!?


OP play what you want. 40k isn't that complicated of a game, don't base your decision on weather or not DE might be hard at first. Collect the army you like the best and want to spend hours painting.

I certainly am not, but I do play both armies competitively and understand what he is getting into.

On another note, as a long time veteran of the game, one of my strongest pieces of advise to new players is "stick with 1 army". With the price of models only going up, and constant releases, 1 army will keep
you busy for a long, long time. You can focus your time and finances, and really learn the inns and outs of it.

With that being said; choose the army with the models you like the most. Dark Eldar are arguably the best looking models Games Workshop has ever produced.

I love my DE army, but it has lost every single game it has played in 6th edition. Exploding transports halve my army in two turns and footslogging is not an option.

So yes, they are in a difficult competitive place now. If you dislike marines, Necrons are not that hard to master and can be made fun with rather portablr, low-model-count lists.

If you care a ton about winning, I wouldn't start DE. I started DE right after the codex came out as my first army. I've learned to make great lists and play well, but it's still just automatically an uphill battle vs several of the common army builds. It will sometimes feel like you should've been given a bit more firepower because your 5+ saves are ignored by practically everything. It's just not a top-tier codex, and I don't think it's going to get better.

If you're looking to be real competitive and play in tournaments, go for a different codex or a mix using allies. If you just want to win playing friendly games, DE codex is more than capable of that. It's not a bad codex by any means, it's just not great either.

It was until 6th ed came out. DE does require finesse so don't think your gonna win right outta the gate. You have to find what works best for your style of play. What units work good together. It isn't as cookie cutter as marines. We are fast but fragile, so speed and cover are our friends. Keeping your opponent guessing is a good tactic. As far as being one of the most beautiful armies it is also fun to play.

So, the thing with DE is that it's all or nothing. Either you swarm your opponent with way more vehicles than they can handle and shoot their friggin face of for a comprehensive victory, or your opponent has the proper tools to handle them, and your entire army tables itself in a comprehensive defeat. I almost never see games that are a middle ground for Dark Eldar.

... which you kind of expect given that its a glass cannon army.

If you want something that's a bit more durable and a bit more... I don't want to say reliable, so much as I mean expectable, then yeah, a DE army probably isn't for you.

Protect your DE with your life! Only attack when you have a major tactical advantage. Plan your attacks in advance, and ALWAYS have a plan B.

I speak from experience.