Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Well, the test of 8th edition's balance was always going to be Eldar. They were top tier in 5 of the past 6 editions of the game after all, and GW loves to make them broken; I mean, who DIDN'T love Wave Serpent spam in 6e, or the current mess in c7e. I'm sure that mandiblasters inexplicably doing mortal wounds despite the fluff not making sense for that at all is a great sign. And it's always been so fun to play against those "I hide my jetbikes all game and dash out at the last second to contest every objective" matches; nothing screams fun like not being able to play the game.

There aren't enough words in the English language to express my loathing. I know it's not the players' fault, but at this point if I never see Eldar again, I won't feel aggrieved. This latest article hasn't really filled me with hope that the things I hate about them (not being able to interact with enemy models, random overpowered nonsense) will be fixed in 8th. Who knows though, maybe we'll get the first edition ever where Eldar are actually appropriately costed.

Daedalus81 wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

Yeah, this is how I always interpreted their roles. The mortal wound thing messes this up, as now Scorpions are good against heavily armoured opponents too.

Also, for all the rationalisations of mortal mandiblasters, let's not forget that MWs bypass invulnerable saves, meaning forcefields. How is that supposed to make sense?

And this is not only about mandiblasters, It makes me fear that MW abilities are dished out generously without rhyme or reason, instead of being super rare as I think they should.

Can't think of a forcefield that works in CC at the moment.

So...one unit gets mortal wounds and now they're being handed out willy nilly. The aspiring sorcerer got a downgraded Smite - willy nilly indeed.

Shadowfield, Refractor Field, Iron Halo, Rosarius..........what field does not work in CC?

 Crimson wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Because forcefields aren't skin tight, they can get inside them.

And that's why Iron Halo doesn't work in melee... wait, it does!

Who says the Iron Halo doesn't also block mortal wounds?

Getting committed to this dour line of thinking will wind up putting you in a pickle later on...

I'm imagining Mandiblasters won't be as broken as they sound. Maybe something like something you use if the unit got to charge, and it gets the Mortal Wound profile on a to-hit roll of a 6.

 Mr Morden wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:

Can't think of a forcefield that works in CC at the moment.

So...one unit gets mortal wounds and now they're being handed out willy nilly. The aspiring sorcerer got a downgraded Smite - willy nilly indeed.

Shadowfield, Refractor Field, Iron Halo, Rosarius..........what field does not work in CC?

Ork Kustom power field i think?

 axisofentropy wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:

Can't think of a forcefield that works in CC at the moment.

So...one unit gets mortal wounds and now they're being handed out willy nilly. The aspiring sorcerer got a downgraded Smite - willy nilly indeed.

Shadowfield, Refractor Field, Iron Halo, Rosarius..........what field does not work in CC?

Ork Kustom power field i think?

Which if currently a cover save, so probably not changing in that respect. I wonder if it'll give -1 to hit instead of +1 to the armour save.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I'm imagining Mandiblasters won't be as broken as they sound.

Honestly, without points values it's all utterly irrelevant, they could do an automatic mortal wound at the start of every round of combat and still be balanced if pointed appropriately and all factions have the tools to manage them

Looking forward to seeing Eldar rebalanced. Hopefully we'll see an end to Scatter Bike spam.

Eldar would be fine if they had a price increase, and considering the FB dude specifically has spoken about units getting rebalanced points wise, I am still holding on to hope they are still not the cheese lords of cheese mountain.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Azreal13 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I'm imagining Mandiblasters won't be as broken as they sound.

Honestly, without points values it's all utterly irrelevant, they could do an automatic mortal wound at the start of every round of combat and still be balanced if pointed appropriately and all factions have the tools to manage them

Yeah exactly this.

It might only sound OP because we haven't seen all the stuff that other factions have to match and counter this sort of stuff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I don't like that in the Eldar preview we saw that some units hit first regardless of the charge :(

 Azreal13 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I'm imagining Mandiblasters won't be as broken as they sound.

Honestly, without points values it's all utterly irrelevant, they could do an automatic mortal wound at the start of every round of combat and still be balanced if pointed appropriately and all factions have the tools to manage them

40 point Striking Scorpions confirmed!

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 axisofentropy wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:

Can't think of a forcefield that works in CC at the moment.

So...one unit gets mortal wounds and now they're being handed out willy nilly. The aspiring sorcerer got a downgraded Smite - willy nilly indeed.

Shadowfield, Refractor Field, Iron Halo, Rosarius..........what field does not work in CC?

Ork Kustom power field i think?

Which if currently a cover save, so probably not changing in that respect. I wonder if it'll give -1 to hit instead of +1 to the armour save.

KFFs are currently invluns, not cover.

As for mandiiblasters, I think we should wait until we actually know how they work before screaming about how OP they are. Yes, they will do mortal wounds which ignore saves, but if that's enough to engage your rage, then buckle up, because there's going to be a lot of stuff that does.

 stonehorse wrote:
Looking forward to seeing Eldar rebalanced. Hopefully we'll see an end to Scatter Bike spam.

Reece seems to think so in his fluff piece for GW. I mean I know it's a promo piece written for a company and isn't 100% true, but at the same time I don't think he'd breech the subject if he didn't have some confidence in it being true.

 gnome_idea_what wrote:
To be fair to your Sisters worries, given that there are only going to be a handful of codexes on launch all Imperium non-space marine forces will likely get consolidated into one book, so IG and Knights will probably get the same treatment.

Well, IG/AM got their own faction focus already, so if Sisters share theirs with other Imperial Agent it means they will likely still be considered more of a nice/allied stuff than a real faction…

 Galas wrote:
Nothing more beautiful that going to a tournament with my 100 bloodreavers Bloodbound

Your bloodsomething bloodwhat? Do they have bloodweapon and bloodarmor?

 Rippy wrote:

I don't like that in the Eldar preview we saw that some units hit first regardless of the charge :(

They already said that in the Charge preview. Eldar and Daemonettes, units that before needed their Initiative to survive meele, will still hit first all the time. I have no problem with that.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Galas wrote:
Nothing more beautiful that going to a tournament with my 100 bloodreavers Bloodbound

Your bloodsomething bloodwhat? Do they have bloodweapon and bloodarmor?

Nah, but they march to war at the shadow of the banner of a Bloodsecrator at the same time many bloodstokers whip them into a frenzied bloodlust.

PLEASE read all information in OP before making assumptions on information, as those assumptions may already be covered by other articles.

 Rippy wrote:
I don't like that in the Eldar preview we saw that some units hit first regardless of the charge :(

It's how Banshee Masks work in the fluff, and it's an "almost every combat" which means there is stuff that will negate it. Plus we know Lash Whips and Slaaenshi models will have ways to trip up charging models into not striking first.

It's likely something we'll see a few armies get (maybe even Grav or Concussive making it a thing were you can't activate the unit first), and forces choices on how to deal with those units and negate their bonuses.

 Galas wrote:

 Rippy wrote:

I don't like that in the Eldar preview we saw that some units hit first regardless of the charge :(

They already said that in the Charge preview. Eldar and Daemonettes, units that before needed their Initiative to survive meele, will still hit first all the time. I have no problem with that.

I am aware they said there were some cases where units hit first regardless, but this makes it sound like it might be commonplace for some armies. Yes I understand those armies will be doomed without it in some cases, but I feel like there is a better way of mitigating it than making them unchargable for some armies.

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
KFFs are currently invluns, not cover.

I must be thinking of an older KFF setup then.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 gnome_idea_what wrote:
To be fair to your Sisters worries, given that there are only going to be a handful of codexes on launch all Imperium non-space marine forces will likely get consolidated into one book, so IG and Knights will probably get the same treatment.

Well, IG/AM got their own faction focus already, so if Sisters share theirs with other Imperial Agent it means they will likely still be considered more of a nice/allied stuff than a real faction…

Maybe. I mean, rolling the small Imperial armies into a single post might be done just to better cover things. And it's not like any small army can't see a proper release in the future with a bigger solo list.

It is not about mandiblasters being OP, that's not my complaint. It is about this not making any sense, and the fact that this hints that MWs would be more prevalent in the game than I'd prefer.

IMHO, Mortal Wounds should be reserved to the most powerful weapons in the setting, and no one in their right mind (at least before these news) would have placed mandiblaster on that list.

 Crimson wrote:
It is not about mandiblasters being OP, that's not my complaint. It is about this not making any sense, and the fact that this hints that MWs would be more prevalent in the game than I'd prefer.

IMHO, Mortal Wounds should be reserved to the most powerful weapons in the setting, and no one in their right mind (at least before these news) would have placed mandiblaster on that list.

Mortal Wounds could also be replacing Rending, which I would expect to be on Mandiblasters.

Make eldar a dying race again!

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
It is not about mandiblasters being OP, that's not my complaint. It is about this not making any sense, and the fact that this hints that MWs would be more prevalent in the game than I'd prefer.

IMHO, Mortal Wounds should be reserved to the most powerful weapons in the setting, and no one in their right mind (at least before these news) would have placed mandiblaster on that list.

Mortal Wounds could also be replacing Rending, which I would expect to be on Mandiblasters.

Good point, if this is the way that GW are taking old Rending, as a Tyranid player I am happy. Hopefully Genestealers will be playable again, along with Rending Claw armed Tyranid Warriors.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Make eldar a dying race again!

I'll be killing them as fast as I can.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 stonehorse wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
It is not about mandiblasters being OP, that's not my complaint. It is about this not making any sense, and the fact that this hints that MWs would be more prevalent in the game than I'd prefer.

IMHO, Mortal Wounds should be reserved to the most powerful weapons in the setting, and no one in their right mind (at least before these news) would have placed mandiblaster on that list.

Mortal Wounds could also be replacing Rending, which I would expect to be on Mandiblasters.

Good point, if this is the way that GW are taking old Rending, as a Tyranid player I am happy. Hopefully Genestealers will be playable again, along with Rending Claw armed Tyranid Warriors.

I felt my heart stop for a second when I thought of Genestealers being able to dish out mortal wounds (I'm hoping that if they do it's on a to-wound of a 6).

Also thanks once again for a great Facebook Round-up ClockworkZion!

All of the Facebook question round-ups can be found in the OP!

 Rippy wrote:
Also thanks once again for a great Facebook Round-up ClockworkZion!

All of the Facebook question round-ups can be found in the OP!

It's my pleasure to put my pointless reading through their comments to good use!

If Eldar are priced appropriately for their power level, Eldar players will complain because they will have ten models on the field. If they are priced cheap for their power level, everyone else will complain because they are OP. Neither one of these scenarios will make people want to play Eldar (outside tournament players), so I really don't get why GW can't make an effort to balance them. A frickin' subsystem weapon that does Mortal Wounds. Not a big axe, or giant Cannon, but a fething pair of little nozzles on the side of their helmets that, up until recently, I didn't even know did anything.

You can't outshoot Eldar because their shooting is better than everyone else, you can't outfight them because of stupid gak like Mandiblasters and always attacking first, you can't outmaneuver them because they are the most mobile army in the game. Give them a frickin' drawback. One.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
If Eldar are priced appropriately for their power level, Eldar players will complain because they will have ten models on the field. If they are priced cheap for their power level, everyone else will complain because they are OP. Neither one of these scenarios will make people want to play Eldar (outside tournament players), so I really don't get why GW can't make an effort to balance them. A frickin' subsystem weapon that does Mortal Wounds. Not a big axe, or giant Cannon, but a fething pair of little nozzles on the side of their helmets that, up until recently, I didn't even know did anything.

You can't outshoot Eldar because their shooting is better than everyone else, you can't outfight them because of stupid gak like Mandiblasters and always attacking first, you can't outmaneuver them because they are the most mobile army in the game. Give them a frickin' drawback. One.

You may be right, but can you really be sure that they're actually broken without seeing the full rules and points costs?

I know this is part of the daily panic attacks the board seems to have over every new article, but I just wish we could chill just a little about how broken something looks when we can't even see the rules that relate to said weapon that was mentioned basically in passing inside of a paragraph.

Can the pointy eared space ponces be broken? Sure. But basing that conclusion off of a marketing fluff piece is putting the cart before the horse.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
If Eldar are priced appropriately for their power level, Eldar players will complain because they will have ten models on the field. If they are priced cheap for their power level, everyone else will complain because they are OP.

It's a shame, but after seeing that Eldar preview, it may well be one of those two options. Very hard to say though, as we have seen probably 1% of units so far.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
If Eldar are priced appropriately for their power level, Eldar players will complain because they will have ten models on the field. If they are priced cheap for their power level, everyone else will complain because they are OP. Neither one of these scenarios will make people want to play Eldar (outside tournament players), so I really don't get why GW can't make an effort to balance them. A frickin' subsystem weapon that does Mortal Wounds. Not a big axe, or giant Cannon, but a fething pair of little nozzles on the side of their helmets that, up until recently, I didn't even know did anything.

You can't outshoot Eldar because their shooting is better than everyone else, you can't outfight them because of stupid gak like Mandiblasters and always attacking first, you can't outmaneuver them because they are the most mobile army in the game. Give them a frickin' drawback. One.

Lol, you don't even know how they work, they just mentioned. Maybe they have to roll 6's to would prefight to cause mortal wounds (This is something I've seen often on AoS models) It's far from OP and very fluffy. Just wait and see what the real rules are before ranting.

 Rippy wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
If Eldar are priced appropriately for their power level, Eldar players will complain because they will have ten models on the field. If they are priced cheap for their power level, everyone else will complain because they are OP.

It's a shame, but after seeing that Eldar preview, it may well be one of those two options. Very hard to say though, as we have seen probably 1% of units so far.

We've seen less than 1% of all the changes coming in the new game. Because other than what models are in an army and what they can carry everything else changed.