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 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Naix wrote:
Is there no more grinding advance?

What? Why would that be changed? As far as I can tell, grinding advance is alive and well.

I thought the double shots from grinding advance came from the last faq, so hence the lack of inclusion in this faq negates that? like how the absence of the summary execution from the previous faq buffs commissars?

 Naix wrote:
I thought the double shots from grinding advance came from the last faq, so hence the lack of inclusion in this faq negates that? like how the absence of the summary execution from the previous faq buffs commissars?

You're looking in the wrong place - the Grinding Advance errata is in the Codex: Astra Militarum FAQ. It's the very first item.

ah my bad

Scion command squads can take vox and medicae kits now without gimping themselves so much which is nice, not particularly competitive but nice.

So, with the huge nerfs to turn 1 DS, the ruling on preventing charges to units in ruins, and the limiting of everyone els's big guns to 0-3 while we can potentially field up to 9 Basilisks/Russes. Are guard back in play as mono faction in competitive?

RogueApiary wrote:
So, with the huge nerfs to turn 1 DS, the ruling on preventing charges to units in ruins, and the limiting of everyone els's big guns to 0-3 while we can potentially field up to 9 Basilisks/Russes. Are guard back in play as mono faction in competitive?

They were always competitive, just difficult to pull absolute top table results, especially in ITC.

Now we're back to the first week of our codex power. Almost every threat we've been building to fight got taken down a peg and anything a serious "pure" guard army was using is almost completely unaffected. The only players with guard units getting screwed were the super soup players and guys who were using relic of cadia every turn.

The big problem is we're still slow and lack really elite units aside from bullgryn. Turn 1 especially we'll struggle to take objectives in maelstrom and ITC events, but we have a way better chance to survive the turn 1 alpha strike and grind a person down over the game.

It's funny, with the new detachment CP amounts, I'm seriously questioning whether it's even necessary to take a battery commander. We have extremely powerful warlord traits that were only really being edged out because of lack of CP for most armies. Go back and re-read the IG command traits, Old Grudges, draconian disciplinarian (Lord commissar version thanks to how he works with the FAQ makes conscripts useable outside valhallans and is dirt cheap)
master of command and Cadia's Superior tactical Training all have potential now that you don't need to so jealously horde CP. Old Grudges especially will be big if things like mortarion get popular or the new knights prove to be powerful.

Oh yeah and a couple of other things. Commissars are a good buy now for leadership. A regular one is half the price of a command squad with flag and a Lord provides ld 9 for 31pts. They're pretty good little counterattack units, a regular commissar with a power axe is 20pts, and thanks to how their rule is worded, proper placement defeats most leadership debuffs in the game. When you are in a commissar's bubble, you can elect to use HIS leadership. That means if someone has a -3 leadership on your guard squad and the commissar isn't being affected, you should be fine as his leadership is still at base. It's a niche thing but handy versus eldar planes and night Lord's.

Another addendum, alpha strike assaults are far from dead, they'll just be less common... I think. Raven guard, alpha legion, and any other "infiltrate" ability is unaffected by the FAQ. I would not be surprised to see detachments containing these kinds of units splashed into other lists in the future. Screens are still very important, it's just now they have a chance to move up most of the time.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

RogueApiary wrote:
So, with the huge nerfs to turn 1 DS, the ruling on preventing charges to units in ruins, and the limiting of everyone els's big guns to 0-3 while we can potentially field up to 9 Basilisks/Russes. Are guard back in play as mono faction in competitive?

(Lord commissar version thanks to how he works with the FAQ makes conscripts useable outside valhallans and is dirt cheap)

Lord commissar's seem like they'd be decent even with infantry squads now tbh, 30 points for +2 leadership and reroll morale isn't that bad, and they can function as a hail mary melee character if you get charged. Not amazing by a long shot but they can help a little now as opposed to before.

Edit: So I just realised something, with the new data sheet limitation you're limited to a max of 12 leman russ's (3 squadrons of 3 and 3 TC), in the index however Leman russ's and Leman russ demolisher's were separate datasheets. Would that not mean you could get a total of 21 russ's ( 3 squadrons of 3 russ's, 3 squadrons of 3 demolisher's, and 3 TC) using the index?

 gbghg wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

RogueApiary wrote:
So, with the huge nerfs to turn 1 DS, the ruling on preventing charges to units in ruins, and the limiting of everyone els's big guns to 0-3 while we can potentially field up to 9 Basilisks/Russes. Are guard back in play as mono faction in competitive?

(Lord commissar version thanks to how he works with the FAQ makes conscripts useable outside valhallans and is dirt cheap)

Lord commissar's seem like they'd be decent even with infantry squads now tbh, 30 points for +2 leadership and reroll morale isn't that bad, and they can function as a hail mary melee character if you get charged. Not amazing by a long shot but they can help a little now as opposed to before.

Edit: So I just realised something, with the new data sheet limitation you're limited to a max of 12 leman russ's (3 squadrons of 3 and 3 TC), in the index however Leman russ's and Leman russ demolisher's were separate datasheets. Would that not mean you could get a total of 21 russ's ( 3 squadrons of 3 russ's, 3 squadrons of 3 demolisher's, and 3 TC) using the index?

Pretty sure you have to use the most up to date datasheet for your model. In this case, the codex one invalidates all index LR datasheets. What it doesn't cover, however, is FW datasheets. So you can in theory roll with something absurd like 9 LR Annihilators, 9 conquerors, 9 stygies Vanquishers, 9 codex LR's, 3 tank commanders, and Pask.

Anybody gonna take Sly Marbo at 65pts now?

Finally there is clarification that Baneblades can't fire overwatch if they are already in melee. I'm surprised that one took so long to get an answer for.

I rarely took more than 3 of anything other than troops anyway so I feel like Guard will generally be unaffected by that rule.

With new CP numbers for BNs and BDEs I am very eager to try out other warlord traits!

RogueApiary wrote:

 gbghg wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

RogueApiary wrote:
So, with the huge nerfs to turn 1 DS, the ruling on preventing charges to units in ruins, and the limiting of everyone els's big guns to 0-3 while we can potentially field up to 9 Basilisks/Russes. Are guard back in play as mono faction in competitive?

(Lord commissar version thanks to how he works with the FAQ makes conscripts useable outside valhallans and is dirt cheap)

Lord commissar's seem like they'd be decent even with infantry squads now tbh, 30 points for +2 leadership and reroll morale isn't that bad, and they can function as a hail mary melee character if you get charged. Not amazing by a long shot but they can help a little now as opposed to before.

Edit: So I just realised something, with the new data sheet limitation you're limited to a max of 12 leman russ's (3 squadrons of 3 and 3 TC), in the index however Leman russ's and Leman russ demolisher's were separate datasheets. Would that not mean you could get a total of 21 russ's ( 3 squadrons of 3 russ's, 3 squadrons of 3 demolisher's, and 3 TC) using the index?

Pretty sure you have to use the most up to date datasheet for your model. In this case, the codex one invalidates all index LR datasheets. What it doesn't cover, however, is FW datasheets. So you can in theory roll with something absurd like 9 LR Annihilators, 9 conquerors, 9 stygies Vanquishers, 9 codex LR's, 3 tank commanders, and Pask.

I think you're correct on both accounts. The 40 Leman Russ list is still alive and well as long as you sell your soul to Forge World.

 Colonel Cross wrote:
Anybody gonna take Sly Marbo at 65pts now?

Finally there is clarification that Baneblades can't fire overwatch if they are already in melee. I'm surprised that one took so long to get an answer for.

I rarely took more than 3 of anything other than troops anyway so I feel like Guard will generally be unaffected by that rule.

With new CP numbers for BNs and BDEs I am very eager to try out other warlord traits!

I always run him with my catachans but to be fair I always thought you couldn't call yourself catachans if you werent running marbo every game

For matched play he's decent but only being able to drop on turns 2-3 hurts and limits his ability to go back into reserve and hit again. His main use in my eyes is doing sneaky objective grabs, line breaker, and assassinating isolated squads or characters. For a paltry amount more though you can get a plasma Scion squad that is more consistent if a bit more one dimensional and less cool looking

RogueApiary wrote:
So, with the huge nerfs to turn 1 DS, the ruling on preventing charges to units in ruins, and the limiting of everyone els's big guns to 0-3 while we can potentially field up to 9 Basilisks/Russes. Are guard back in play as mono faction in competitive?

My first thought was something like this for ITC.

 Colonel Cross wrote:
Anybody gonna take Sly Marbo at 65pts now?

Finally there is clarification that Baneblades can't fire overwatch if they are already in melee. I'm surprised that one took so long to get an answer for.

I rarely took more than 3 of anything other than troops anyway so I feel like Guard will generally be unaffected by that rule.

With new CP numbers for BNs and BDEs I am very eager to try out other warlord traits!

I'm not sure to understand: why the new CP numbers would affect warlord traits? Because Grand Strategist might not be an auto-include anymore?

 Theo4016 wrote:

 Colonel Cross wrote:
Anybody gonna take Sly Marbo at 65pts now?

Finally there is clarification that Baneblades can't fire overwatch if they are already in melee. I'm surprised that one took so long to get an answer for.

I rarely took more than 3 of anything other than troops anyway so I feel like Guard will generally be unaffected by that rule.

With new CP numbers for BNs and BDEs I am very eager to try out other warlord traits!

I'm not sure to understand: why the new CP numbers would affect warlord traits? Because Grand Strategist might not be an auto-include anymore?

Precisely. If you have enough CP's to use without grand strategist and indeed with it end up more than you end up using(I struggled to use all cp's with warlord trait+heirloom and brigade!) there's no point taking that warlord trait. You can just take something other since you don't in practice notice less CP's.

IG isn't most CP hungry army out there. Think that trait is now more of soup army usage rather than pure IG.

For matched play he's decent but only being able to drop on turns 2-3 hurts and limits his ability to go back into reserve and hit again.

Why only deepstrike on turns 2-3? His explosives ability only states that he has to arrive on the field, it doesn't state where, couldn't you just deepstrike into your deployment zone turn 1 (in keeping with the new reserves rule) then carry on like normal on turns 2 and 3?.

AFAIK units not deployed after 3rd turn are count as being destroyed


Edit:
Found in March FAQ

Finally, any unit that has not arrived on the battlefield by the end of the third battle round in a matched play game counts as having been destroyed.

Marbo shouldn't get destroyed because he doesn't go back into reserves, he is "removed from the battlefield" until the end of your next movement phase. Its the same ruling with GSC return to the shadows stratagem and the mawlocs terror from the deep ability

C4790M wrote:
Marbo shouldn't get destroyed because he doesn't go back into reserves, he is "removed from the battlefield" until the end of your next movement phase. Its the same ruling with GSC return to the shadows stratagem and the mawlocs terror from the deep ability

And Swooping Hawks "Sky Leap"

C4790M wrote:Marbo shouldn't get destroyed because he doesn't go back into reserves, he is "removed from the battlefield" until the end of your next movement phase. Its the same ruling with GSC return to the shadows stratagem and the mawlocs terror from the deep ability

gbghg wrote:

For matched play he's decent but only being able to drop on turns 2-3 hurts and limits his ability to go back into reserve and hit again.

Why only deepstrike on turns 2-3? His explosives ability only states that he has to arrive on the field, it doesn't state where, couldn't you just deepstrike into your deployment zone turn 1 (in keeping with the new reserves rule) then carry on like normal on turns 2 and 3?.

Huh, both good points, I take that back then. That gives him a lot more utility. Still not sure if he's *better* than Stormtroopers but it definitely helps. I always used to combo him with Stormtroopers in the old days so I guess I'll be doing that again when I run catachans. He was a good 1-2 lunch, shoot the enemy with Stormtroopers then charge with marbo to buy them breathing room. With "stalk" he can pull it off pretty reliably, at least as reliably as IG will get.

Yeah I never realized he wouldn't be destroyed by pulling him off the battlefield after turn 3. That makes him way more useful for late game OBJ grabbing! Damn he is totally worth it in that regard! Especially with new character targeting rules.

C4790M wrote:
Marbo shouldn't get destroyed because he doesn't go back into reserves, he is "removed from the battlefield" until the end of your next movement phase. Its the same ruling with GSC return to the shadows stratagem and the mawlocs terror from the deep ability

Except that another FAQ clarifies that any units that are removed from the battlefield and redeployed are counted as arriving from reserves. So that kind of complicates things. If they arrive from reserves, were they considered to be in reserves, and thus get destroyed? Or does it apply to other rules that interact with arriving from reserves? Clarification is definitely needed.

Not much has changed for me. Still going to run pask. Just with 2 tank commanders as well. With the shadowsword.

Commisar just for a cheap HQ.

Running 4x power lifter sentinel vs 2. They are just TOO good.

Most game I end up winning by beating the opponent down. At the end of turn 6 I start to get ahead in points and they don't have anything to deal with my armour.

you start to get ahead in points on turn 6? You might be skewed a little too hard to endgame...

 rhinoceraids wrote:
Not much has changed for me. Still going to run pask. Just with 2 tank commanders as well. With the shadowsword.

Three character tanks? Do you have any regular Leman Russ tanks in the list so that you can give tank orders?

 JB wrote:

 rhinoceraids wrote:
Not much has changed for me. Still going to run pask. Just with 2 tank commanders as well. With the shadowsword.

Three character tanks? Do you have any regular Leman Russ tanks in the list so that you can give tank orders?

You can order <Tank Commanders>, the only keyword needed is <Leman Russ>, which they have.

 JB wrote:

 rhinoceraids wrote:
Not much has changed for me. Still going to run pask. Just with 2 tank commanders as well. With the shadowsword.

Three character tanks? Do you have any regular Leman Russ tanks in the list so that you can give tank orders?

Tank Commanders can order themselves and eachother.

So anyone know how we’re going to deal with the salt mountains now that we’ve survived the faq unscathed?

gendoikari87 wrote:
So anyone know how we’re going to deal with the salt mountains now that we’ve survived the faq unscathed?

That is only a continuation of the status quo, so proceed with whatever you did before?

Part of the problem with addressing this issue is that many of the loudest negative voices either play against opponents who cheat or who do not play the rules correctly. Obviously an army can be stronger than its rules if the pilot stretches the rules to increase its efficiency across the board. As an example, one individual here who frequently complains about IG and their experiences playing against them regularly recently posted this:

Mortar team 1: Rolls for shots, rerolls for catachan, rolls to hit, rolls to wound, opponent rolls to save, chooses losses

While applying the Catachan rule to infantry weapons does not break the game, doing that with a few rules will definitely increase the power of the army beyond what it should be.

Just from personal experience, the opponent who gives me the most trouble in competitive play is not someone who plays an OP army or list but someone who understands how IG work, what I am trying to do and tries to stop that within the scope of what they can do and what the mission objectives are.

 Ordana wrote:

 JB wrote:

 rhinoceraids wrote:
Not much has changed for me. Still going to run pask. Just with 2 tank commanders as well. With the shadowsword.

Three character tanks? Do you have any regular Leman Russ tanks in the list so that you can give tank orders?

Tank Commanders can order themselves and eachother.

AFAIK it was faqed but I cant find this.

Gnollu wrote:
AFAIK it was faqed but I cant find this.

Pask was prohibited from ordering himself in the original FAQ for the Index. As the wording of the rule has been changed and there is a Codex the current Index FAQ has removed that question completely.