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Found this new KS. Its erm interesting I guess.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/929519929/damsels-of-darkmyre?ref=category

A new line of 32mm miniatures based on the art of Fastner and Larson, set in the SHYFTRZ world of Darkmyre.

No problems with the art

but calling your game Shyftrz (Shifters?) is mildly annoying

So, they are peddling 3d printed minis. Essentially print on demand stuff?

Pass.

So if they're already sculpted and they're print on demand, then this is just a (very expensive) shopping cart, right?

Zombicide rules? Check.
San Diego Comic Con-themed board? Check.
Scantily-clad cosplayer survivors? Hmmmm.

Maybe I'll check this KS out...

WHAT?

For those prices, I could hire some actual scantily-clad cosplayers and larp it up all night! Who do they think they are, Werner Clocke?

Bad artwork, awful 3D work.
Nothing to see here, move along.

I remember just funding one of these.


We actually got miniatures from them.

Gonna pass on this one. Kingdom Death has better nekked girls.

Um.. well. I already went in on the Bombshell Babes, which covers this base well enough for me. Not to mention large chunks of Reaper's output...

 Mr. Burning wrote:
So, they are peddling 3d printed minis. Essentially print on demand stuff?

Pass.

Indeed. After a few truly epic hobby Kickstarters it now looks like the dregs of the industry are trying to get in on it and score some easy money for nothing.

Hey everyone this is Misty from JunkRobot.

First let me thank you for discussing the line whether positive or negative you're entitled to your own opinion and that I can respect completely.
The models you see are 3d printed but we are not "peddling" print on demand stuff. We are evaluating the interest in the line and determining how much funding we can raise to achieve the best possible way to achieve this.
Damsels are just one tiny section of what we are planning, we wanted these to be sexy beautiful and diverse. Provided there's interest we'll do MOnsterz of Darkmyre and more. We'll keep the Damsel line supported but it won't be our sole focus.
As stated in the KS page if we hit $10,000 mark we will offer the minis in high quality metal just like other companies(it would actually make us some money to do this), but quite honestly it took a very long time to get where I'm at on this project so hiring sculptors to make greens and master molds etc. can only be done if the interest is there and the funding is there.
While some companies are taking there old products and I can name some MAJOR companies "re-inventing" there product and jumping on the Kickstarter bandwagon for some easy loot that 's not what we are doing, we began creating Darkmyre, the annoyingly name SHYFTRZ and Damsels back in 1991 and thanks to KS, people like me who are technically a registered company but really a two woman operation can showcase their work and hope to achieve mild success.
If the KS stays very modest and we hit our goal but don't go over much then we actually lose money, with a small print run the models shipping and packaging cost us $15.00 each if you take a look at our levels lets say the $200.00 Jingle Bell level you can potentially get 20 models 20 x 15=300.00 so we would be losing 100.00 for every back in that level. I'm open about the JunkRobot finances and overall we lost $1,200.00 on the SHYFTRZ card game.
I don't want to leave any negative connotations I just want you guys to know how committed to the project I am and I do NOT take any gamer for granted.
My commitment to you guys
I love miniatures. I love everything about them and the process and I have been painting them for very long time. Thank you so much for discussing the line and please email if you have any questions I'd be more than happy to clarify or explain anything you may want to know. I am here to provide a service for YOU not the other way around.
Sincerely,
Misty-

Missed the fact the minis would be produced in metal previously, just saw the "Manufactured in Ultra Frost material" which makes it look like they are all POD.

Where are you getting your casting done, and what are you doing for packaging? A cost of $15 for the cast, packaging, and domestic shipping seems a bit high.

Well, to be helpful I could point out why you received negative feedback here, and hopefully it'll help you if you want to rehash this project.

First, the presentation looks very unprofessional. It uses gaudy text, lots of fonts (in the graphic design industry, more than 3 kinds of fonts in one layout is usually bad), unaligned photos and texts, weird layout: from a graphic design perspective it's just plain bad, like scam-artist "you are the 10,000th visitor" online ads bad. It's like this has been photoshopped by a 12 year old kid in the 90s. Good design reflects professionalism--it shows that if you're willing to take your time/hire a person to think about how you present your product, you will also take your time to think about your customer and show a good product.

Second, the 3d sculpts are too boring and static. Most people would've forgiven bad graphic design for a really good product, but this is not it. One good example is Dark Sword miniatures (http://www.darkswordminiatures.com/). They produce something like this: (mostly) cheesecake figures based on artworks. The website does suffer from bad design, but look at their product: it's top of the line. Most of all, they took the time to do actual photos of the ACTUAL product and hired pro-painters to paint them. Now, hiring good painters might not be part of your budget but at least showing the actual product to your consumer will help immensely. Now watching the video I can see that you have test products that are already painted : WHY NOT PUT PICTURES OF THOSE. We want to pay for an actual miniature, not a 3d sculpt. Your consumers want to see your product before they can gauge interest. Would you buy a car if you're only allowed to see a 3d model of it?

But as is, even if you produce actual sculpts of the product, it's too static. The poses look unnatural, and not the sexy/cool kind of unnatural that people will forgive. We're talking about "I AM A ROBOT" kind of unnatural. Which, save for a few deviants, is not sexy at all.

Third, the video. Intro looked like it came from the 80s, again, made by a 12-year old. It doesn't have to be fancy; you just need a nice, simple video that sends your message across and not "we are hardselling this product using a rehearsed dialogue that pretends to be normal" kind of way". Make it sound sincere. Make it sound like you love your product and you want to see it come through. People love passion, and passion shows whatever media you use.

Wish this would help.

My feedback:
They're far, far too expensive for something that's crowdfunded. Have a close look at this Kickstarter, which is also not one of the "masses of cheap figures" ones, by any means.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/bombshellminis/bombshell-babes

Thanks for criticisms I will try very hard to make changes I am EXTREMELY passionate about the project. Like I have said in other post I wouldn't even break even on this KS unless it reaches 6K, I'll have to take a loan. I hope that reflects my dedication.
The graphic design I didn't realize looked so bad, I actually thought it was nice so I guess I am way off target on that.
I'll redo the video and try and make some changes. Regarding the models being static, the guy that's creating them has worked for some of the biggest companies in the world I'll pass on your comments and see how he reacts, maybe on future renders/sculpts we can help make them a little more dynamic.
Regarding price point, guys I am trying, I really am.
I'm talking to printing companies and casting companies each day to try and get things leveled out, most however, want tangible numbers not proposed scenarios so we are taking it a day at a time to see better how accommodate their requirements.
Finally, just to let you in on my perspective of the whole project and the 12 year old video POV. I think KS is about presenting your idea to the masses, getting input and changing things to make it better. To allow your viewers to see things behind the scenes that you wouldn't normally get to see, like me painting a miniature early in the morning with just my hair pulled back. I could do a professional presentation, sanitize the entire thing and make it look "professional" but I want things to to be loose and fun and silly. I will change the video though and I do appreciate your comments. I'm going to do everything humanly possible to gain trust and earn the right to be a worthy miniature company.
Misty-

very hight price point for very average "sculpts" almost twice the price of other lines with a similar style. not one for me..

Good luck.

I don't see a problem with the video. I'm not expecting a trailer, I want to see someone talking earnestly about their product.
The graphic design is amateurish, but presumably you're not a professional designer. Maybe you can get someone to help with that if this goes well.
I don't think the subject matter is for me, but I'm having a hard time judging the printed minis quality from your photos. A quality photo of the mini with neutral colored primer would probably be necessary for that.
Caitlyn looks like a decent interpretation of the art for instance. Keyra's stance has not been effectively translated in the mini however.
I don't think this is starting off as any worse a deal than many kickstarters, although the price per model seems to vary a lot depending g on the pledge level, and you've already met your goal, so maybe you should take everyones advice here "under advisement".

you mistake my message: it doesn't have to look serious and tight. But it does have to look professional. Professionalism should not suffer if you want it to look fun and silly. To give an example, here's a company my friends made with minimal budget:

http://tuxessories.bigcartel.com/

It's informal, but it's professional. And budgetwise, there's only a handful of them and they didn't spend big bucks to launch their products.

My problem with the video is not the content but on how it was delivered.It sounds too... hardsell, for lack of a better word. Like a home TV shopping ad. Look at other kickstarter videos: usually it's just a guy sitting there, talking about their product. And it works because they show they're passionate about their product. I do not think your video reflects that.

JunkRobot wrote:

As stated in the KS page if we hit $10,000 mark we will offer the minis in high quality metal just like other companies(it would actually make us some money to do this), but quite honestly it took a very long time to get where I'm at on this project so hiring sculptors to make greens and master molds etc. can only be done if the interest is there and the funding is there.
While some companies are taking there old products and I can name some MAJOR companies "re-inventing" there product and jumping on the Kickstarter bandwagon for some easy loot that 's not what we are doing, we began creating Darkmyre, the annoyingly name SHYFTRZ and Damsels back in 1991 and thanks to KS, people like me who are technically a registered company but really a two woman operation can showcase their work and hope to achieve mild success.
If the KS stays very modest and we hit our goal but don't go over much then we actually lose money, with a small print run the models shipping and packaging cost us $15.00 each if you take a look at our levels lets say the $200.00 Jingle Bell level you can potentially get 20 models 20 x 15=300.00 so we would be losing 100.00 for every back in that level. I'm open about the JunkRobot finances and overall we lost $1,200.00 on the SHYFTRZ card game.

If all this is true, then it doesn't seem like you've done your homework on either how to run a successful Kickstarter or a successful business venture. Unless you have oodles of cash in the bank (which you probably don't since you are using crowd funding), then being a loss-leader is not going to work out. Make your Kickstarter a number that actually makes sense to enable you to offer the best version of your idea possible. As it is, it sounds like you're asking for just enough money to guarantee some sort of tragedy down the line. If you're going to lose money selling figures AND have to provide KS backer reward figures, then what are you going to have accomplished by raising any money at all? This sounds like the perfect setup for a failed business venture that has to renege on providing its backers with their rewards because things just don't work out.

That said, the figures themselves seem kinda forgettable. There are a boatload of cheesecake lines already on the market, and yours don't seem to do anything to stand out from the crowd. While I think their being 3D printed is cool, that doesn't seem to be a good differentiating factor for most of the miniature-buying market. They're just... more girl figures.

I hope this doesn't discourage you, as it seems like you are passionate about the idea. It just seems like the plan could use a little more work...

Kickstarter funding should aid your finances in helping the project get off the ground. I would expect you to have some financing as well but it isn't a prerequisite.

If It looked like I was loosing money I would reassess the project and take another look at my short to mid term goals.
Loosing money on packaging I would definitly look at wholesale packaging suppliers and work something out with the mail/courier companies to get a better deal for x amount of shipments too.

get a price from casters, packaging and mail companies based on minimums and anticipated shipments then work out your costs from there.

If it still looks like you still loose money then you may need to just do what other mini and games companies do, stay small and trickle out high quality work, use the internet and social media to build your profile, then look at kickstarting when your profile starts to get you peeking over the parapet. into the future.

I just finished a 3hr conference call with my main sculptor, explaining the changes necessary to create these minis with a more dynamic look.Also, I have someone sculpting, by hand, a two-headed mount to go great with our minis.These Damsels... may be -more girls- but these girls each have a story to tell and now we should be getting much better looking minis to tell them.

I'm rather surprised that this Kickstarter doesn't have more interest, some of the sculpts do have a bit of merit.

That said, I suspect that right now is a bad time: Kingdom Death, which is well regarded in a similar vein (at least as regards their pin-ups) has a Kickstarter beginning in 3 days. The large scale Kickstarters have drawn a lot of the free cash out of the market earlier as well, and with the holiday season fast approaching, it's really not a great time for such a venture, with a company that is mainly unknown. It's also very, very similar in some ways (and very different in others) to a recent kickstarter that focused on female miniatures, so that niche market is possibly experiencing a bit of satiation.

So, while there are some very decent sculpts, there are a lot of problems, but the biggest issue is, to me, the front page. It's so difficult to understand what the various pledge levels actually entitle you to, and what is in what.

For example, consider the sidebar;
-Snowman level ($50): 3 choices (not including Ravage) plus Ravage. 4 miniatures, $12.50 average price.

-Ms. Klaus Level ($80): 4 choices (may include Ravage) plus Myrrh level (which is a shirt that can be traded for a miniature) and access to "stretch goal rewards". So, 5 miniatures, $16 average price. Unless the "stretch goal rewards" are great, the value per miniature for a higher level is dramatically worse.

So, what are the "stretch goal rewards"? Darned if I can figure it out. It vaguely seems that any of the Damsels other then the original 5 or so are stretch goals... which would be looney, but even that I'm not sure about, because the page also says that choices of miniatures are from "any unlocked damsel"...

3/4 down the page you get these graphics;


and



So, if the images are correct, Snowman is actually up to 5 models ($10 average), and Ms. Klaus is up to 7 ($11.40 average). A better deal, but... waa? Why is this buried at the bottom of the page in these really badly laid out pictures?

Compare this to the Bombshell Miniatures reward guide;
...

Having bellyached about all that, there are some nice sculpts, at least enough to potentially tempt someone to get a few (also, they claim to be delivering in December, so there is that);
Bex is rather nice


Mellisa (I think?) is rather nice as well.


There are definitely a few things I would consider picking out of this... but a lot of it is just all over the place.

Hello,
For me it would be the lovable Fastner and Larson artwork. The miniatures are "ok" but as child of the seveties and eighties, I like the Heavy Metal aspect of the art. Just my two cents.

Looks like the rewards have been reworked and cleaned up some.

Interesting to see that a lot of the complaints I had earlier seem to have been dealt with: the pledge levels have been revamped to offer more value at each, and been made clearer;

-The $50 "Snowman" Pledge level is now a very clear 4 choices plus the KS exclusive, or 5 choices. $10 each average (1 extra miniature).

-The $80 "Ms. Klaus" level went from 5 minis to a choice of either a) 7 picks, 1 KS exclusive dame, a demon miniature and 5 painted bases, or b) 10 choices and 5 painted bases. A fairly dramatic increase in value from previous.

Additionally, it looks like they really took to heart the criticism about awkward positioning, as the newer sculpts really do look they are worth picking up (well, if you want cheesecake, that is).

Certainly there seem to be enough to justify the $50 pledge, at least to my way of thinking.











It also looks like they are going to add a female mummy (no pun), which will either be a flat $8 add-on, or a free include. I hope that this picks up a bit, the company really looks to have learned some valuable things during the kickstarter, and it's always nice to support what really seems to be a true start-up.

Of course, all this is coming from someone that seems to excel at finding justifications for throwing money at pin-up miniatures, so your mileage may vary...

Yeah, I'm glad that they're taking the criticisms well! At least you're doing something GW doesn't do: listen to your current and potential market. I'd still prefer if it shows the actual product, painted or not.

I actually like the sculpting for Allison and Bex. I think Allison should be your poster miniature and get one painted beautifully right away!

If you guys send me an Allison miniature, I can paint it for free and send you well-taken product shots. That's how much I love that figure. That is, if you people still need a painter. Some samples of my works:




Just PM me if you're interested!

Mommy. Why are the Space Marines fighting?


also, after Buzzsaw's post, I'll have another look at this. Tomorrow.

OT:

Because the title "I Have the High Ground!" is a reference to Star Wars. A.K.A. two knight brothers fighting because of betrayal. The color of the thunderhammers reflect that, too.

I have to compliment Junkrobot for quick responses to criticism: today's update shows revisions on sculpts just posted yesterday, and I think I would add 2 more figures to the "well worth picking up pile".

Deanna;


Michelle;


I think I may be talking myself into a higher pledge level...