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There's a player at my flgs that I used to be able to beat rather easily but since he switched his Grey Knight for Necrons I have been unable to defeat him.

We usually play at 1750 and his list looks like this.

1 named HQ... can't remember which one... the one that like to collect things iirc
1 squad of warrior that sit on objective
1 squad of warrior in a ghost ark
1 squad of immortal that sit on objectives
1 squad of wraith
3 Annihilation barges
1 squad of lychguard in a Nightscythe (HQ goes with then.

My list usually looks like this :
Nurgle lord on bike escorted by 6 nurgle bikers with 2 melta guns (pw on AS)
3 x 7 Plague marines with 2 melta in rhinos. PC has a Power Axe and melta bomb
1 Heldrake with Baleflammer
2 x 5 Havoks with 4 autocannon
The rest varies... vindicator, tons of cultist... what ever I feel like playing

What usually happens is that he sends his wraith rigth at me, forcing me to shoot pretty much my whole army at them. If I assault them, I strike last and usually get tied until the lychguard arrives... then I beat myself up with those damn mindshackle scarabs...

His barges sends tons of shots at me and I'm having trouble to catch up with them to use my melta guns... because that's the only thing that seems to be able to penetrate their shields.

Any advice would be really appreciated... I did well against every other players I play against but I'm totally unable to defeat this list (and I also tried with my Dark Angels and Dark Eldars :/)

well for starters, target priority seems to be the order of the day.

dont waste your heavy weapons on the wraiths they are toughness 4, so you can drop them with bolter fire. heres a few things i would change about your army or add in:

grab a squad of havocs with flakk missiles. they should be able to drop the flier no problem, and combined with vector strikes from your heldrake, you can take that down no problem.
a second squad of havocs with heavy bolters, or even missiles. i like either for various reasons, but missiles have had good sucsess against me. a good full round of bolter fire, plus krak missiles into the wraiths should drop them fast. and since they dont have RP, once down they stay down. his barges only have a 24" range, and are not fast skimmers, so once the flier and wraiths go down, start pointing your missiles at the barges. finish up by focusing on the closest unit, and dropping it. another thing to consider, is that chaos have acsess to some dirt cheap psykers, and can do some cool things with biomancy and telepathy, as well as their own powers. use those as much as possible. otherwise, i reccommend sit back and use your longer range to peg off threats before they reach you. looking at his list, he has nothing over 24" range, so you should be able to gain a few turns of sniping without much issue.

Well the most important piece of good news first; his list is awful, so that should be easy to work with. On the other side of that coin, the list you seem to be using looks rather good.

In all honesty, you should be able to beat him with what you have already. By the sounds of it, it is your gameplay that is letting you down. I'm going to run through some things here under some assumptions based on your post; correct me if I'm wrong in any instance.

It seems to me the Wraiths are jumping you in turn 2, meaning you are likely deploying on the 24" line. Well the thing to remember is none of his guns have more than 24" range, whereas yours do. Don't deploy right up on the line, there are better ways to deploy, though some people feel compelled to deploy at the line always. Bunker up; if all your army is in one place the Wraiths have to come at your full force in order to get anything, so you shoot the bejesus out of them. I'm seeing no D-Lord, so it's just like killing 12 Marines with small arms fire, and we all know that's easy enough to do.

Next time, try this. Try and aim to go second; I know this is a random roll, but if you win the roll off, make him so first. Deploy 36" away. In the first turn his Barges will move 12" and snap fire everything. There's not much you can do about that except they and stay out of LOS if you can. If he doesn't keep the Wraiths close to them then send your Bikes at them in your turn. Everything else should be out of range.

With his Wraiths he has two choices; stay back out of your range in which case you don't need to worry about them for a turn, or run at you head on, in which case you unload on them with everything. Keep the Havocs until last, because if you don't end up needing them, they can try glance the Barges or better yet, start thinning out those Warriors on the objectives (remember that those Autocannons will kill his Warriors very quickly; this and the fact they are good against everything, don't change them for Heavy Bolters as suggested above).

A very important thing to remember is the combination of reserve rules and Invasion Beams...in your favour. In the turn he comes on the Lychguard can't assault. If he drops them out they must stand their and take the brunt of your shooting. If he leaves them inside then use that o your advantage; in your turn make sure you destroy the Scythe. If destroyed they go into ongoing reserves meaning they comes on from his board edge and have to foot slog it back across the board giving you time to prepare and deal with other things.

I've beaten better Necron lists with a similar Chaos lists, so it is certainly doable. Just remember to always play to your strengths.

BTW, if looks likes you have some ponts spare in your list, so if you are down with tailoring, a squad of Missile Launcher Havocs would go well to thin those Wraiths faster (don't bother with Flakk Missiles, they are too expensive and a Vector Strike from your Heldrake backed by Autocannons should be more than enough to dsipatch one single Scythe).

Thanks for the advices. I usually have tough luck against him, his dices have been hot against me for the last couple games... I realize my deployement could be better... as you guessed, I usually deploy as far as possible to allow my rhino to reach his objective as soon as possible. I'll correct that next times... there's something else I'll correct. He played his barge as FAST skimmer... hence why they always got the jump on me. I'll correct that too

I'll also see if I can fit some missile havoks in the list.

Another chaos unit that is useful against necrons is having a khorne lord on the juggernaut with either of the demon weapons. The lord by himself will erase a single necron unit in cc. Then put the lord with a unit of chaos spawn just so there is something there to soak up small arms fire. The whole unit moves 12" and is not slowed by terrain so it can get to his army by turn 2. Your current army looks good the way it is but think about the unit I just mentioned it's good against a lot of different armies.

my friend plays a chaos army against my necrons all the time, and what i find hurts me the most is his havocs, psykers and heldrake.

he likes to castle up, shoot me for a few turns, then advance and take objectives. i also run pretty tough lists for the most part, and we always end up fighting a close match.

sit back, shoot him up, and focus fire on one unit (usually the closest) untill it goes away. save your super long range fire for his flier....and seriously flakk missiles are awsome vrs necron fliers. also keep in mind, quantum shielding dosent work on the back armor, and is not present on his fliers (not sure if he was calling that or not) so if you can get bikes with meltas or something into a rear shot on his barges, that just makes them die easier.

Thinking about this sort of army my mind is always drawn to the idea of having 2 scythes full of immortals or warriors, a command barge and as many a plague marine squads as possible.

I do think that tesla barges are better than havocs though, perhaps there is another way. Expensive units though.

The Anni barges are amazing (probably one of my fave necron units) but they die very quickly to a melta up the backside, and they are not overly quick either.

If you have one or a model for count-as, a Forgefiend with 2 Hades Autocannons could be a good addition. Those 8 S8 AP4 shots would do a LOT of damage to a necron army. You could pen any of his vehicles and deny armour saves to his warriors....as well as popping his Scythe fairly tidyly too.

Necrons are very weak in CC but the combination of gauss and Overwatch makes getting there an issue. if you can get into CC i recommend a Lord with the Black Mace - again, it will deny armour saves on the warriors but also has the chance to cause every surviving model in the unit a S4 hit after combat.

 Praxiss wrote:
The Anni barges are amazing (probably one of my fave necron units) but they die very quickly to a melta up the backside, and they are not overly quick either.

They are vehicle that isn't Heavy, therefore by very definition they are quick. And what's not quick about a vehicle that can move 12", and still shoot off 6 shots (4 twin-linked) get 3 hits with each 6?

Well, yeah. They can move 12" and Snapfire. But if you want to move and shoot as full BS you can only go 6"

Snapfiring with Anni Barges is still pretty effective. I don't hesitate to move them more than 6" if it's required.

 Praxiss wrote:
Well, yeah. They can move 12" and Snapfire. But if you want to move and shoot as full BS you can only go 6"

Since when does Tesla care about firing at full BS? At lower BS it has a better chance of rolling 6's as there are more failed hits so more re-rolls.

Huh, never looked at it that way.

i stand corrected!

Few things that may or may not help your frustrations.

Wraiths:
Yes it's only 12 wounds, and small arms fire will usually tie them up. If he's putting points into Whip Coils, then spread your guys out. They only reduce the initiative of units that make base contact at the start of the combat phase. So all your Pile in guys will still swing at initiative. If you're running cultists, then use them to bog the wraiths down for a turn, maybe 2. Also, Difficult ground is now a Wraiths worst nightmare. While they aren't slowed by having to roll the extra die, but they are reduced to Initiative 1 on the charge. So everything will be able to swing before them, and if Whip Coils are there, those few models in base contact are swinging Simul.

Mindshackle Scarabs:
These are much easier to get around than most people think, but if your Gambit Fails, then yeah, you're kinda boned. If you charge him, then they don't work for that turn. Both MSS and Issuing Challenges are at the start of the Phase. It's generally accepted that the player who's turn it is resolves the priority, so you say the MSS goes if he wants to use them, then you issue the challenge. If he's running Trazyn, then he doesn't have an invul, so it's just 3 wounds and he's down, until he makes his EL roll. He's no longer in a challenge if he does get back up, so on his turn, just accept with the champion (if you haven't broken the squad yet).

If he charges you, which he isn't doing the turn he gets them out of the Nightscythe, then hang your character out as far back in a unit as possible. If they aren't engaged when he assaults, they can't accept the challenge. You then get to pile-in and beat on the unit in an attempt to break them. If you don't break them then you get the opportunity to issue the challenge as above.

Flyers:
Flakk missles are kinda pricey IMO. Both Necron Flyers are only AR11, so the Havocs, even though they are Snap Firing, are still a threat to em when they hit. On 8 shots, you should still see a hit. An Aegis Defense line would solve a few of your problems if you just take a Quad Gun. You get a crack at the flyer when it comes in, if it kills it, the unit inside goes back in reserve, and then is foot slogging it starting on the next turn.

Annihilation Barges:
Yes these things are great, but they are not very different than any Predators. You can use the Necrons own rule and effectively glance him to Death with your Autocannons. Otherwise deal with them as you normally would any predator or whatnot. Find the points to put 1 Lascannon in each Havoc Squad, or swap out a squad of Havocs for some Obliterators. Also the new Forgefiend is great, after running one you might find you want to get a 2nd one. Helldrake can vector strike em, and if he's hanging em around the board edge, you can just vector strike as you fly off if you're desperate.

General Army problems:
The biggest thing that's hurting you that I can see is your list, not so much his. He's got you pretty much outnumbered and probably close to 2-1 since he's running warriors, when you're barely hitting ~35 wounds? The other disadvantage to this is that you don't really have the firepower to deal enough damage to them as you approach. Yes you have very resilient troops, but you probably have the same difficult time against IG. (kill your transports, pre-measure your assault range, then pour a ton of shots into you.)

Necrons don't care about vehicles. While I agree that players need 1-2 units in transports, there are only a handful of cases where you would want more. I'd drop the 3rd unit and bulk out a squad on the ground, or use the points for a Aegis Defense Line. One thing people seem to overlook with Fortifacations is that they are Deployed in a Table Half, not a Deployment Zone. So, depending on what you want to do, put the line 6" off your Deployment edge, and use it as cover to GET TO. While this doesn't matter much for those Annihilation barges firing at your Marines, it'll give you cover for your Cultists when you run them. Flyers don't come in till Turn 2, so as long as you're there before your opponents Turn 2, then you'll be fine. Also, the Aegis will provide cover to your Vindicator if you bring that, but Necrons don't really care, cause unless you can take out a whole unit, they're going to shrug 1/2 the damage off, which makes the Vindicator less than optimal vs. Crons.

Havocs are your Achilles heel in this army. These things threaten his entire army. They can rock up the Annhiliation Barges, reducing warriors to whatever cover save they have (and you can focus fire if he's got parts of the unit out of cover). My guess is that since you don't have any additional Marines to soak wounds, these are usually his priority? That or you're not taking advantage of their range and starting out of his. He is restricted to 24" on his weapons, so even those Annihilation Barges are only going to hit stuff 30" (36" with Snap Fire) away on first turn. Once those are down, he can put your transports out of commission, if he hasn't already with the Annihilation Barges. Once there he can pre-measure your assault range of 18" for a turn or 2, and your 7 man units don't hold up to that. Especially when Immortals are matching the high Toughness.

Hope these help, and good luck.

 Akar wrote:
Difficult ground is now a Wraiths worst nightmare.

It is?
I thought the Wraightflight rule they had made them ignore terrain?

BRB FAQ
-----
Q: Do models that ignore difficult terrain when moving or charging
still fight at Initiative step 1 if they charge through difficult terrain?
(p22)
A: Yes.
-----

 Akar wrote:
BRB FAQ
-----
Q: Do models that ignore difficult terrain when moving or charging
still fight at Initiative step 1 if they charge through difficult terrain?
(p22)
A: Yes.
-----

Whip coils makes it kinda irrelevant if they make it into combat.

 GaussGuy wrote:
Whip coils makes it kinda irrelevant if they make it into combat.

Not really, because then you'd at least be fighting at the same time, rather than letting the Wraiths hit you first.

xSPYXEx wrote:

 GaussGuy wrote:
Whip coils makes it kinda irrelevant if they make it into combat.

Not really, because then you'd at least be fighting at the same time, rather than letting the Wraiths hit you first.

Still sitting at T4 W2 with 3++ and whoever has whip coils that survives will hit at I2 next turn.

Yeah but whip coils only affect models in base contact at the start of the fight sub-phase this is before pile in moves are made. Not only can a smart opponent force you to charge through terrain they can also arrange their models in such a way that only one or two models will be affected by whip coils for the first round. And they can use their pile in move to limit the amount of models that can make it into base contact.

Whip coils are too expensive for what little benefit they give against a smart opponent. The first turn a majority of the enemy unit is going to strike first in the round when they have the most attacks they're going to have. 10 pts that doesnt help you against what you really fear (the fist hiding in the back).

 Akar wrote:
BRB FAQ
-----
Q: Do models that ignore difficult terrain when moving or charging
still fight at Initiative step 1 if they charge through difficult terrain?
(p22)
A: Yes.
-----

You know what's great about this though? Wraiths are Infantry, Jump so they can use their jump packs on the assault charge to move over the terrain anyway. Auto pass dangerous terrain test but they never "moved through" terrain, they moved over it. Also, remember that taking a test for dangerous or difficult terrain is no longer the qualifier for fighting at initiative 1.

OP, Akar's advice is pretty sound, though I wouldn't get too worked up about trying to bring him from I2 to I1.

Wraiths are not that scary. Really. As a me necron player who uses them, I find they draw a lot of fire, but don't really do much. I think their rep is way scarier then they actually are. A solid round of Bolter fire from a few squads does them in pretty good. And krak missiles work wonders.

Other then that just sit back and shoot em up. Turn 4 move up and grab some objectives and counter attack. Easy peasy

Wraiths are scary when a destroyer lord is in...

But whoever thinks that Trazyn with lychguard will be so easy to kill is plain wrong, those lychguard are tough, whenever you kill Trazyn, on 2+ he will just replace one and will be back to shackle you...

While the list may seem bad it is the plaguemarines nightmare, massive number of shots will do them in, Fnp from 4+ to 5+ made them suffer a lot.
Same for the bikesquad, Annihilation barges don't care you have T6, they will do you wounds and you will loose bikers if he focusses alll three , making them managble for the wraiths or the Guard.

Well, recently, i faced a Nurgle list led by Typhus in an RTT final with my Wraiths + Night Scythes list and my opponent lost horribly with only Typhus and a handful of PM left after five rounds. But he had no newer toys up to Zombies. Death to the false Emperor.

Just to let you know guys. I faced him again but he changed his list.
He replaced Lychguards with Deathmarks and a barge with a squad of jetbikes (forgot their name)

I have my nurgle lord on bike, with 6 bikers, 3 squads of PM, one Heldrake and 3 squads of Havoks (2 autocannons and 1 ML)
I followed your advices and totally annhilated him.

The wraith fell in one turn under the fire of the Havoks (I made a mistake at deployment an could not used my PM against them).
The deathmarks killed all my bikers save for the aspiring champion and the lord who proceeded to wipe the floor with the jetbikes in assault.
The PM kiled a barge and the ghost ark, the havok finished the other barge and destroyed the Nightscythe's weapon. The Heldrake did most of the job for killing everything that was one foot.

He was pretty pissed when I pointed that his barge are not fast and when I told him I could screw his MSS tactic when I was charging him.

I wipedhim by the end of turn 6. My 3 squads of PM were still alive, so were 2 of my rhino, 2 of my havoks squads and my Heldrake.

Well, you played a very nice list. How many points was this?

1750

Deamon wrote:
Just to let you know guys. I faced him again but he changed his list.
He replaced Lychguards with Deathmarks and a barge with a squad of jetbikes (forgot their name)

I have my nurgle lord on bike, with 6 bikers, 3 squads of PM, one Heldrake and 3 squads of Havoks (2 autocannons and 1 ML)
I followed your advices and totally annhilated him.

The wraith fell in one turn under the fire of the Havoks (I made a mistake at deployment an could not used my PM against them).
The deathmarks killed all my bikers save for the aspiring champion and the lord who proceeded to wipe the floor with the jetbikes in assault.
The PM kiled a barge and the ghost ark, the havok finished the other barge and destroyed the Nightscythe's weapon. The Heldrake did most of the job for killing everything that was one foot.

He was pretty pissed when I pointed that his barge are not fast and when I told him I could screw his MSS tactic when I was charging him.

I wipedhim by the end of turn 6. My 3 squads of PM were still alive, so were 2 of my rhino, 2 of my havoks squads and my Heldrake.

I was actually disappointed when I found that Annihilation Barges were not fast lol.

Deamon wrote:
1750

Here my list would be like this: DLord, 5x 5 Warriors in Night Scythes, 3x 5 Wraiths, and 3 Annihilation Barges. Tough to beat.