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Hi All, I am new to the site, I have signed up for advice and tactics mainly.

I have played 40k many years back in second edition, where I had a small space marines army (space wolves), I also dabbled with the orks and with a larger Tyranid army. But i think it was so long ago many of the rules and miniatures have changed.

I Have played Fantasy battle to a much greater extent through 4th ed to the current edition and have collected several armies including a large Chaos, Lizardman and now a vastly growing Dark Elf army (currently about 6000 points and steadily growing).

However I find it difficult to get time to play Fantasy due to the length of time a game takes, also having read the Horus Heresy books I am really wanting to get back into 40k where locally I will find more opponents and from the test game I did in store its much faster per game than fantasy.

So the question I am stuck with is which army?!

Now I know from Fantasy it is mostly about personal choice but its always been easy enough for me to pick a Fantasy army and I have several, however I'm under strick orders from the Girlfriend only 1 40k army as I'm a big enough geek already haha!

I love the models of many armies, but I dont know how their play styles would translate to my style of gaming so far!? I would generally favour elite troops over hordes, but tbh the horde armies (gaurd, nids and Orcs) all have cool models and I do like tanks and monsters! so here I am stuck!

I know I would like to be able to put concentrated fire into a target, and hit them with an equally focussed hard hitting assault, Mixing speed and hitting power with heavy ranged fire. As for psychic powers I dont know if its something I'd take too much notice off in 40k not that I know much about them or how they work. On the other side of the same coin I quite like the idea of having some serious shortrange firepower for cityscape battles which I'd really like to give a go at.

I can rule out Necrons as I think they look terrible. And probably Chaos because I think they're just too cliched, though I did consider a Nurgle Festus plague zombie army.

I Dont like Dark Eldar models or set up. Or Greay Knights as they too look lame. Dont fancy Orcs as I dont wanna paint all those foot troops, and I like my troops to go where I tell them not squabble about it. Dont want to do Sisters of Battle as the miniatures range is too small. As cool as the larger Nid models look I cba painting all the hordes and I dont like the whole aliens with guns thing so I'd win up almost with a melee army.

So I'm left with Tau, Eldar, Space Marines or Imperial guard... I dont think Guard would suit my style, or lack of enthusiasm to paint a horde, I would wind up with all tanks and weapons teams an as few troops as possible.

So Marines (but which chapter? I like Wolves, Dark Angels, and standard)
Eldar, I do really like but I have no idea how I'd paint these guys or what kind of collection would suit the kind of styles I'd want.
Tau, theoretically the best shooters, and the mechs are cool but I'm not too keen on the Kroot who're the only melee troops i think?

Anyone care to offer a sample list for my play style or advice on how I could make those races fit into my style?!

Sorry for such a long first post I hope it makes sense and thanks for anyone whose taken the time to read it and leave a comment

I would suggest you try Dark Angels, but wait for the new codex. Space Wolves are also pretty strong right now and do fit a lot of your criteria however.

I was leaning towards the Marines or Eldar more than Tau tbh, and I thought there'd be a new DA codex soon with the new boxed set having them in. The models are very cool but there's nothing to seperate them model wise from other Chapters right now, hopefully the codex will fix that (Blood Angels get a mega gunship a variety of dreadnaughts and some flying angels, Wolves get wolves and bigger wolves, DA got nothing?!) But the DA look mean as anything in their robes!

Eldar are the wild card great models but I am not a very good painter, and I dont see me being able to do them justice, also I kind of imagine them getting whooped with my play style

Between the three you've whittled it down to, I'd discount tau right away. They have very limited close combat abilities, and you say you want to be able to win an assault once in awhile.

Between the other two I'd probably say vanilla space marines. The different chapters let you do interesting things, but the basic codex marines lets you do the most stuff, and is less fiddly than eldar (and better supported).

Eldar can be painted rather easily - they are fantastic models that really respond to washes due to all the raised plates and so on the armour has.

If you are interested in getting an Eldar army, let me know. Mine is currently up for sale/trade. I'd even be happy to finish off painting it up

How much does winning matter to you? Eldar can do all the things you stated above, with decent melee in the form of Harlequins, good short range shooting with your fire dragons, wraith guard, and dire avengers (if you bladestorm that is), and some great long range weapons with fire prisms, wraith guard, war-walkers, falcons, and to a lesser degree vipers. They also have some great psychic defence if you take a farseer with runes of warding.

The downside is they're a very unforgiving army, due partly to their design, and partly to the fact that they're now two editions outdated. You're units are all pretty expensive, and other than wraithguard or wraith lords, are all pretty fragile. The learning curve for this army is pretty steep compared to a marine army, but once you're able to start working all your units in concert they can be brutal. On the plus side, there have been rumours of them getting an update some time next year, which if it holds true will hopefully bring them back in line with the power levels of other armies.

Kind of sound like my current Dark Elves in terms of working the units together to achieve the victory but if you get cornered they're took weak to take a hit back!

I do like the storm guardian models too despite them probably being very weak.

Winning doesn't matter to me for now but I'd like to be able to reach a competitive tournament level one day.

Eldar fit your battle plans perfectly, do some research into the different craft worlds and plan your army accordingly.

I'll consider it and give it a look, I have read on the craftworlds before but I would have to paint any aspect warriors to match as I like uniformity, but I guess if you paint the helmets the appropriate aspect colours its ok!?

There are a whole range of ways to paint up Aspects - you don't have to stick with the "standard" colours, though many people do. I saw some rather awesome grey and yellow striking scorpions on Dakka a while ago.

sounds like wolves to me.

you get the well rounded grey hunters (great at shooting and no slouch in melee). And of course, the ultimate in flavorful elites that is the lone wolf (a unit whose purpose is to die in a blaze of glory with hopefully the enemy commander strapped to them on the way to hell.....yes please!)

Im going to have to say take a veteran catachan army. Have Iron hand stracken leading a command squad and 2 veteran gaurd squads with 3 melta guns or flame throwers for city fights. If you want long range fire power take a battery of basalisks or medusas. Manticores always do decent damage. Use hellhound varient or take a squad of russ tanks for city fights evan. With little amount of infantry you can have an elite army that is hard hitting and covered by long range wepons.

Grey Knights look to lame!!! What is this, terminators are some of the most gorgeous models gw has ever made, to each their own I guess.

If you pick up dark vengeance for the angels, that should be enough to keep you busy for a month until the new army book comes out. If not buy another tac squad and you will roughly have 900 points legal army to play around with.

Even vet guard list will still have a large amount of men to paint, so I dont think they would suit, based on the reasons you gave against orks and nids.

Try eldar with tau support or Tau with eldar support- shooty army that sucks at close combat with some phykers and some close combat elite monsters.

Also, maybe try tau with ork allies? It is a long shot but the orks absorb alot of damage and if you go for a mek list your not really "hordy" you will have 30 boys, a deff dread, and some support in the form of elite infantry (5-15) or walkers (1-3)
Painting orks is easier than it seems because there is so much green- all you have to do really is base color, black wash(with a little brown thrown in), heavy drybrush base, light drybrush lighter green- and then you have to paint about 40% of the models body.

Yanos wrote:
Kind of sound like my current Dark Elves in terms of working the units together to achieve the victory but if you get cornered they're took weak to take a hit back!

I do like the storm guardian models too despite them probably being very weak.

Winning doesn't matter to me for now but I'd like to be able to reach a competitive tournament level one day.

I've never used Storm Guardians before, but I think they could work ok as a kind of suicide unit with some fusion guns (not very fluffy though). Boost them up in a wave serpent and drop them out to pop those obnoxious vehicles, freeing up your fire dragons (you're gonna want at least a unit of these guys) to deal with heavy elite units like terminators and paladins.

If you're into doing forge world, I'd also recommend Hornets. They're kind of like more mobile war-walkers. They can put out tons of firepower and are extremely mobile, and with the jink rule, they get a 5+ cover save as long as you keep moving. They also go into the relatively lacklustre fast attack slot rather than the heavily contested heavy support, allowing you to bring even more firepower.

Its you choice. At the end.

Four criterias (or criteriae.)

Do you like the look of them? Most important, in my opinion. Any army can be customised to any role (mostly), and you can make your own fluff.

Do you like the way they play? If you choose Space Marines, which character do you like the most? Of course, you can always make your own character, and use their rules. (Hint Hint: Get Marneus Calgar and Honour guard, name him soemthing different, and buy 2 more squads of Guard on E-bay.)

Do you like their lore/personality/ethics? Simplicity in itself. If they have honour, nobility, compassion for the individual people that make up the imperium, and fight for civilians, and have black skin, and have a primarch that left them 9 epic artefacts of destructions including 3+ invulnerable save mantle, and they have green armor, and an obsession with flame and melta, and a homeworld that is rocky, black, and has some lava flows, you might want to take it.

Finally, do you honestly think you will be happy with it? Will you love painting, fielding, adoring it, giving it names? If you do, ignore the rest. This is the most important.

I totally agree with Legion. If you like the models and they fire your imagine you can tailor many of the lists to different playstyles.

I would suggest Eldar though. Bringing off a victory through clever use of cover and turbo-boosts makes Eldar very satisfying to play. They look beautiful and can be painted very nicely with washes or you can wet-blend every armour plate if you want to. Mixing aspects gives you a very balanced force.

If you start now with a first 1500pts, and progress at my sort of rate (not very quickly) by the time you have them painted, all of the rumoured new models should be coming out in time to add to your base army sometime next Summer.

Thank very much to everyone who has replied to this I know its a really hard question to ask, due to it all being such a personal choice I have got a lot of what I wanted from the responses though, just the general rule of what people thought about the races/styles.

As far as making your own fluff I would do that with anything I collected as the story aspect is very important to me, My Dark Elves for example are not from Naggaroth, they're from the borders at the edge of the chaos wastes north of there, in a coastal town Ruled over by Aracnan "the scourge" a Dreadlord who found Cthulu the king of the Kraken's in his underwater prison and works to free him! As such my army includes loads of corsairs, every regiment xbows/spears etc has the Kraken banner pole from the corsairs set in the unit. My Hydra are "dwellers of the deep models from LOTR (I call them Land Kraken). I wont go into much more detail, but its also a very heavily converted force if hardly painted (and not painted well!).

I must admit reading up at lunch time today I am really leaning towrd an off shoot Of Eldar Craftworld Ulthwe, talking with my 40k playing mate I came up with some fluff and a potential list so I'll do the same for Wolves and DA and see what looks good on paper tonight... if no decision is made on Friday on my day off I'm gonna go into a GW store and buy a model that I like on impulse and stick with it! lol


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 GimbleMuggernaught wrote:

Yanos wrote:
Kind of sound like my current Dark Elves in terms of working the units together to achieve the victory but if you get cornered they're took weak to take a hit back!

I do like the storm guardian models too despite them probably being very weak.

Winning doesn't matter to me for now but I'd like to be able to reach a competitive tournament level one day.

I've never used Storm Guardians before, but I think they could work ok as a kind of suicide unit with some fusion guns (not very fluffy though). Boost them up in a wave serpent and drop them out to pop those obnoxious vehicles, freeing up your fire dragons (you're gonna want at least a unit of these guys) to deal with heavy elite units like terminators and paladins.

If you're into doing forge world, I'd also recommend Hornets. They're kind of like more mobile war-walkers. They can put out tons of firepower and are extremely mobile, and with the jink rule, they get a 5+ cover save as long as you keep moving. They also go into the relatively lacklustre fast attack slot rather than the heavily contested heavy support, allowing you to bring even more firepower.

for tanks?,
I love Forgeworlds models but I dont know if they are usable in general 40k games?

Also yeh I dont know how I'd use the storm guardians but i dont think i'd have a single unit of shooty guardians in the force I'd use dire avengers instead as they can also go melee if needs be with some chance of success? But a cheap unit of SG with flamers/melas would defo do for close support/assault/tank hunting. I was suggested giving them 2 flamers then a warlock with davastator? basically a heavy flamer to use them against hordes or units in cover? Does this make sense? Then a second unit with fusion guns for tanks. I love the fire dragon models tbh and the Striking scorpions, 2 of my favourite troop type unit models in GW collection

You can use forgeworld with your opponent's permission. Most tournaments will stipulate what you can and cannot use. Personally I have never seen anyone refusing to play with FW as long as they get to see the rules and perhaps have them explained.

The problem with putting non-close -combat specialist Eldar in range to use their flamers is that you are putting them in range of the enemy's charge

They can be good to soften up larger or tough squads which you then charge with something else. Melta for hitting tanks after dropping them off in a WS can also be good.

It's sad that you discounted CSM, because they have the coolest monsters and tanks around.

Space Marines are probably the way to go. Their elite troops can be ultra-elite and there are so many variants these days it's hard not to find an army that suits your playstyle.

I would suggest taking a deep, hard look at Blood Angels. I know Gray Knights and Space Wolves seem to be the best armies in the game right now, but a friend of mine is having a lot of success with Death Company and Black Rage tactics right now. He's changed my opinion about how to run these guys.

Yanos wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 GimbleMuggernaught wrote:

Yanos wrote:
Kind of sound like my current Dark Elves in terms of working the units together to achieve the victory but if you get cornered they're took weak to take a hit back!

I do like the storm guardian models too despite them probably being very weak.

Winning doesn't matter to me for now but I'd like to be able to reach a competitive tournament level one day.

I've never used Storm Guardians before, but I think they could work ok as a kind of suicide unit with some fusion guns (not very fluffy though). Boost them up in a wave serpent and drop them out to pop those obnoxious vehicles, freeing up your fire dragons (you're gonna want at least a unit of these guys) to deal with heavy elite units like terminators and paladins.

If you're into doing forge world, I'd also recommend Hornets. They're kind of like more mobile war-walkers. They can put out tons of firepower and are extremely mobile, and with the jink rule, they get a 5+ cover save as long as you keep moving. They also go into the relatively lacklustre fast attack slot rather than the heavily contested heavy support, allowing you to bring even more firepower.

for tanks?,
I love Forgeworlds models but I dont know if they are usable in general 40k games?

Also yeh I dont know how I'd use the storm guardians but i dont think i'd have a single unit of shooty guardians in the force I'd use dire avengers instead as they can also go melee if needs be with some chance of success? But a cheap unit of SG with flamers/melas would defo do for close support/assault/tank hunting. I was suggested giving them 2 flamers then a warlock with davastator? basically a heavy flamer to use them against hordes or units in cover? Does this make sense? Then a second unit with fusion guns for tanks. I love the fire dragon models tbh and the Striking scorpions, 2 of my favourite troop type unit models in GW collection

Dire avengers aren't great for melee, but the can sometimes not die long enough for you to get a melee unit in there to help them. Striking scorpions can be pretty good against hordes, but seem to fold against more elite melee units because even though they have lots of attacks and a 3+ save, they're still only T3, so you'll be taking lots of wounds. I would recommend Harlequins. I have had great success with these guys, especially if you arm them all with Harlequin's Kisses for the rending attack. Throw in a shadowseer too for the cover save and you've got a scary melee unit that can take almost anything. Their main drawback is how difficult they are to paint, but you can always just do some simple patterns to make it easier on yourself.

Do you know what armies people in your area are playing? This could help you decide on units and tactics. If there's lots of hordes in your area, load up on scorpions, and storm guardians with flamers/destructor. Lots of armour? Take a copious amount of fire dragons. The beauty of Eldar is that they have an answer to every problem in their codex somewhere (except flyers. We're still only a 4th edition 'dex)

I'd go Eldar. Lots of flexibility and their new codex is undoubtably around the corner!


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I'd go Eldar. Lots of flexibility and their new codex is undoubtably around the corner!

Tau. They are twice as strong as they ever have been with 6th edition. They are due for a update. They have a medium model count and cool freaking gundams.

They aren't grimdark. They use real military tactics instead of the 'DRIVE MEH CLOSER SO I CAN HIT IT WITH MAH SWORD!'.

Yeah man. Tau.

or Orks. Then you don't have to pretend to care about anything except rolling dice and yelling waaagh. But if Orks are off the table, Tau.

Well I agree with GalacticZ to a point Tau look awesome, they have amazing models and i do love the gundam wing aspect ofthe mechs but on the flip side if slapped they die?!

I'd like to think that if i had to get in close and dirty say city fight landscapes or whatever i could pile in with chainswords or whatever closer quarter weapons, the Tau just seem like they'd crumble in those circumstances?


Eldar/Marines seem to have the aspect of "i can shoot you" be it with anti infantry/heavy infantry/tank weapons to "I can chop you up" in melee too!

just dont know I have basically 36 hours to decide! i'm giving myself until i get to GW liverpool on Friday morning GMT!!! Then I'm buying A model! lol

Yanos wrote:
Well I agree with GalacticZ to a point Tau look awesome, they have amazing models and i do love the gundam wing aspect ofthe mechs but on the flip side if slapped they die?!

I'd like to think that if i had to get in close and dirty say city fight landscapes or whatever i could pile in with chainswords or whatever closer quarter weapons, the Tau just seem like they'd crumble in those circumstances?


Eldar/Marines seem to have the aspect of "i can shoot you" be it with anti infantry/heavy infantry/tank weapons to "I can chop you up" in melee too!

just dont know I have basically 36 hours to decide! i'm giving myself until i get to GW liverpool on Friday morning GMT!!! Then I'm buying A model! lol

Eldar are more like "We have really shooty units that blow at CC, but we also have really good CC units that blow at shooting. Watch us use them on you in concert to great effect!

SM and their associated dexes are moreso "We have shooty units that are good at CC too, and we have CC units that are decent at shooting. We're gunna pile our stuff on the table and roll dice at you"

I suggest Space Wolves if you want a balance of both. Their units, especially their main troops choice, are very "Jack of All Trades" and its a quite well-rounded codex. Very fun theme too. Space Fratboys.

That is true I'd imagine, everything I've been reading makes me more torn between SM and Eldar.... I dont want to just sit there rolling dice with SM I'd play it Devastators for long range, Tactical squads mid range, Assault squads for assault!

Eldar yeh I see the point, get the Striking Scorpions and Harlequins into melee asap and keep the reapers at the back in cover!?! Possibly Dire Avengers being the only type that can shoot and fight?

What do you think of Scorps for ambush/infiltration moves? or better in a grav-tank to deploy?

and lastly yeh Wolves are probably the cooler looking SM list but no flyers? shame as the Stormtalon is a sexy model!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I was thinking about army lists and have 2 what do you guys think (bare in mind I'm not very knowledgeable at all about 40k!)

ELDAR

HQ
Farseer:
Runes of warding, spirit stones
4 warlocks (mix of powers)

ELITES:
5 Scorpions with Exarch with Stalker and shadowstrike
5 Fire dragons with exarchwith crackshot and fire pike
7 Harlequins with all the upgrades! And harlequins kisses

TROOPS
5 Rangers
10 Dire Avengers with Exarch with Power weapon and shimmershield, defend and bladestorm
10 Storm Guardians with 2 flamers and warlock with Destructor (waveserpent transport)
10 Storm Guardians with 2 fusion guns and warlock (Wave Serpent)

FAST ATTACK
3Vypers with shuriken cannons and missile launchers
3 shining spears with exarch


HEAVY SUPPORT
2 war walkers with 2 missile launchers
Wraithlord with wraithsword and starcannon
3shadowweaver artillery


SPACE WOLVES

HQ
Wolf lord terminator armour thunder hammer stormshield
4 wolfguard terminators mix of hammers and shields and claws (land raider transport)

ELITE
Lone wolf with 2 fenris wolves, and lightning claws
Dreadnought with assault cannon and cc weapon (drop pod)

TROOPS
2 x Grey hunters squads with Rhino’s and melta guns
1x Blood claws squad with lukas

FAST ATTACK
4 Thunder wolf cavalry with hammers and shields
A fenrisian wolf pack 10 wolves + cyber wolf
Landspeeder squadron 1 Typhoon 2 Tornado pattern

HEAVY SUPPORT
Vindicator
5 Long Fangs with 2 missile launchers 2 plasma cannons and a razorback with twinlinked assault cannon, extra armour and HK missile
Predator with dozer blade and extra armour no sponsons (cheap!)

TheCaptain wrote:Eldar are more like "We have really shooty units that blow at CC, but we also have really good CC units that blow at shooting. Watch us use them on you in concert to great effect!"

lol. Yeah.

I suppose the only problem with this is as a codex ages and that mysterious synergy that eldar rely on starts to break apart. Eldar may be designed to use a bunch of specialists in a combined arms approach, but nowadays...

I know it may not be something you want to consider straight off the bat when starting the hobby again but remember there are allies rules now if you cant find a perfect fit straight away. If you want to buy an army now and dont want to wait i would consider building up a force of eldar in anticipation of their new codex when it comes out or a space wolves force with a vue to augmenting it with perhaps ba or da who are just around the corner. I would be surprised if such a force doesnt fit all your needs.

Thansk for the advice but allies rules aren't really something I like that much tbh, it works great for Space Marines and Imperial guard being able to fight together or Sister of battle / grey knights etc but for Nids (who would they ally with seriously?!) Necrons... same as Nids its not pheasible!

Eldar/Dark eldar/tau dont have any real allies but I could see arguements for why they'd team up with someone to fight off say the Necs or Nids. and Chaos would use people for anything they could... lastly Orks.... aren't clever enough to ally




Howefer... moot point as I bought some Eldar Guardians today! descision made!

Thansk to everyone who threw their opinion in

Yanos wrote:
Thansk for the advice but allies rules aren't really something I like that much tbh, it works great for Space Marines and Imperial guard being able to fight together or Sister of battle / grey knights etc but for Nids (who would they ally with seriously?!) Necrons... same as Nids its not pheasible!

Eldar/Dark eldar/tau dont have any real allies but I could see arguements for why they'd team up with someone to fight off say the Necs or Nids. and Chaos would use people for anything they could... lastly Orks.... aren't clever enough to ally




Howefer... moot point as I bought some Eldar Guardians today! descision made!

Thansk to everyone who threw their opinion in

Well Nids are the only Army without allies to be fair. Other armies/factions have teamed up with each other over the years of fluff funny one is Bangels W/ necrons IIRC