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Just saw this...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2236930/Stephanie-Fletcher-Newlywed-teacher-charged-raping-underage-students-affair-teacher.html?ICO=most_read_module

‘She was telling me that every question I got right we could do something’
- victim to police

Only got one thing to say...

WHERE THE HELL WERE THESE TEACHERS AT WHEN I WAS IN SCHOOL?

Not totally sure how it was rape, pedophilia sure but the boys seemed consensual until they suffered in their grades...

It's (at least statutory) rape if they're unable to give consent. People below a certain age, which varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, are normally not legally able to give consent. Sometimes they legally can with someone close to their own age. Again, the specifics vary under different laws.

Strange system of laws, I suppose it gets the job done though.

Well, the principle that people below the age of majority cannot give consent is consistent around the world. Just exactly where that age is, and where the corner-case exceptions are, varies a bit from place to place.

I thought 16 was the age you could give consent if your parents approve. But I don't think they would...

At least she's not unattractive...

Seriously, what the hell, where were the parents? Guess they "respected the kid's privacy" by not noticing increased picture mail activity?

Age of Consent in New York is 17, so these kids were technically below that.

Considered an E Felony in the state, given the teachers age. Rape in the third degree. 1 to 5 years imprisonment per count. She could be facing 10 years in jail for this, as well as up to $500,000 in fines.

 Mannahnin wrote:
It's (at least statutory) rape if they're unable to give consent. People below a certain age, which varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, are normally not legally able to give consent. Sometimes they legally can with someone close to their own age. Again, the specifics vary under different laws.

And, more importantly in the case of a 16-year old (an age group that's well known for wanting sex), sex across an age difference like that often also involves a power difference. A teacher isn't a peer, it's someone who has a great deal of power over a student and there's a lot of potential for coercion. It's kind of unfortunate that sometimes a consensual relationship gets punished harshly, but the law is necessary to avoid some really nasty stuff.

Let's leave fantasies out of it, please.-Mannahnin

Eh, she's not too bad. Doesn't sound like a bad plan to me. Certainly beats sitting at home playing Planetside 2.

Sounds like a very unhappy young woman. Glad to see dakka as empathetic as usual.

 Testify wrote:
Sounds like a very unhappy young woman. Glad to see dakka as empathetic as usual.

Well, she did this the same year she married... I mean, it's hard to empathised with someone who abuses kids, especially the ones left in their care.

I particularly want to punch one teacher I know who bangs every student he can get away with, and that's in college, so...

The fact that it was legally rape doesn't make it morally wrong. My friend lost her viginity at 13 to a 17 year old...she pressured him into it.

That doesn't make it right either. Obviously teachers should be forbidden from sexual relations with pupils and she shouldn't be allowed to teach.

 Testify wrote:
Sounds like a very unhappy young woman. Glad to see dakka as empathetic as usual.

She sexually harassed two kids...

 Corpsesarefun wrote:

 Testify wrote:
Sounds like a very unhappy young woman. Glad to see dakka as empathetic as usual.

She sexually harassed two kids...

Life is more complex than that. You can't just stick the label "sexual harassment" on something and leave it at that. It's probably fair to say the schoolkids involved weren't exactly traumatised by it.

As I say, she sounds like someone with very deep emotional problems, she does not sound like someone who habitually abuses children.

 Testify wrote:
The fact that it was legally rape doesn't make it morally wrong. My friend lost her viginity at 13 to a 17 year old...she pressured him into it.

You mean to say that a 17 year old boy couldn't find it in himself to say no to a 13 year old girl?

Obviously teachers should be forbidden from sexual relations with pupils and she shouldn't be allowed to teach.

See, I tend to think about how the victim's must feel here, those two boys, their family, the school and her husband (because he is also in victim of her behaviour), and tell myself that I don't give much a crap about her feelings.

 Kovnik Obama wrote:

You mean to say that a 17 year old boy couldn't find it in himself to say no to a 13 year old girl?

I don't think he wanted to say no

 Kovnik Obama wrote:

See, I tend to think about how the victim's must feel here, those two boys, their family, the school and her husband (because he is also in victim of her behaviour), and tell myself that I don't give much a crap about her feelings.

People are complicated.

Testify, I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about.

Neither am i.

 InquisitorVaron wrote:
I thought 16 was the age you could give consent if your parents approve. But I don't think they would...

That differs depending on the age of the other party.

And when there's a power relationship or position of trust, such as employer/employee or teacher/student then the age of consent becomes a hard 17 or 18, depending on where the case is happening.

Issues of sexual morality when we're talking about adolescents are complex and difficult to speak about authoritatively. Individual people mature at different rates; one person may be sufficiently emotionally stable and intelligent to handle a sexual relationship at 15 or 16; another may be unable to handle it responsibly even at 20 or 21. For legal purposes we have to draw a draw a line in the sand, but that hard and fast line of "One day before your 18th birthday = crime", "One day after = A-OK!" is realistically a fiction we agree to live by for convenience. It's even more obvious when a given state puts the age at 16 and the neighboring one puts it at 18.

In real life, if you're going to have casual sexual encounters with people you don't know well, you should be darn careful about making sure they're of legal age, and that you take proper precautions against pregnancy and STI transmission.

But also in real life, most folks have sex with people they know, and can hopefully have real relationships of one kind or another with, and judge whether the person is mature. Both in law and in common practice, most people and places are more understanding about adolescents close in age (like a 17 year old and their 18 year old partner, in a state where 18 is the age of consent).

When we're talking about teachers and students, of course, the other moral problem is the power imbalance. It's difficult to have an ethical relationship of this kind, avoiding exploitation and abuse of trust, when one person has such power over the other. Even when people are (rarely) able to manage it, the APPEARANCE of inpropriety and abuse is almost inescapable, and the social stigma and suspicion makes a bad footing for a relationship. For this reason an ethical teacher will avoid the whole thing in the first place, even if they genuinely love the student and believe them to be mature. It's better to err on the side of caution and recognize that your own judgment may be compromised, and the potential for harm to other person outweighs what you find desirable.

This is why we judge teachers who abuse their position with students very harshly.

Quick question on the "legal" crime/charge/definition of pedophilia and child molestation.

Is it true it is no longer considered pedophilia/child molestation if the victim is over 12 years old? Read it some where when discussing the Sandusky case. Think they said 12 -age of consent was called something of a minor (I forgot)

I know it was off topic, but was wondering if that was true. Always thought the legal and medical definitions of child molestation and pedophilia was someone who was not the age of consent,

The exact laws vary from state to state. Depending on how young the kid is and how old the offender, it could be molestation, abuse of a minor, improper sexual contact with a minor, etc.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-57325273-10391695/advocates-pennsylvania-sex-abuse-laws-the-worst-/
http://students.haverford.edu/masar/documents/PARapeLaws.pdf

Get your stupid fanatsies out of your heads. The teacher is a child predator. Hang that person on the courthouse steps as a warning to others.

I think there was a study where they gave kids M&M's base don how many answers they got righ ont a test.

The number of correct answers the top 33% got correct did not change. They were already trying their hardest to get htem right. The middle 33% changed in a way that was not statistically significant, as they were alreaady toppe dout as well, just not htat smart. The bbottom 33% had a 25% increase in correct answers because they actually were given a reason to try.

http://darwincatholic.blogspot.com/2012/09/low-iq-or-low-motivation.html

So, I think this lady was on to something....

Apart from the sexual predator thing...

 Frazzled wrote:
Get your stupid fanatsies out of your heads. The teacher is a child predator. Hang that person on the courthouse steps as a warning to others.

Agreed, Well not the hanging, she may be into that, you dont know.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Get your stupid fanatsies out of your heads. The teacher is a child predator. Hang that person on the courthouse steps as a warning to others.

Agreed, Well not the hanging, she may be into that, you dont know.

No no no, let's hang her, whether she's into it or not! We can re-enact a scene from Burroughs' Naked Lunch I'll get my Steely Dan 3.

 Kovnik Obama wrote:

Well, she did this the same year she married... I mean, it's hard to empathised with someone who abuses kids, especially the ones left in their care.

I can all but guarantee you that the two boys in question were willingly 'abused'. There is a world of difference between sexually abusing a young child and consensual sex, in actuallity if not legally, with 16 year olds Can you honestly say that if you were in the boys situation when you were 16 you would have turned her down? I know that I wouldn't.

Obviously there is a lot more to this given that she is/was a teacher and offering teenage boys sex is like offering alchol to an alcholoic.

However hyperbole about hanging her is idiotic. The merest whisper of a paedophile and the pitchforks come out.