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I hear alot of talk about Nob Bikers, and while I know they're still good, I wonder if some people are maybe still stuck in 5ed gear. How have peoples experiences with MANz compared to Nob Bikers, specifically with a warboss in the squad? I know you're missing out on goodies like a waagh banner and a painboy with MANz, but with the price of each biker nob, as well as how much better 2+ got in melee with power weapons, I'm thinking MANz in a Battlewagon is a more sound investment. Opinions?

I tried out some MANz and was left pretty sore after their poor poor performance. Than again I've always been a Nob kinda guy with kitted out squads.

Tried out Nob Bikers today. 5 Bikers 2xPK,PB,2xBC,Banner, Cybork w/ WarBoss,Bike,PK,Squig, Cybork

I had also foolishly paid for eavy armor which the bike grants ...

This unit decimated a huge portion of my opponents army. Was playing vs CSM
It munched up 2x5 man Termie squads,3man Mutilator Squad, Daemon Prince, 3x Oblits.

The New FNP makes them pretty grotesque. Boss up front taking the brunt of the dmg with a 4+Cover/Armor 5++, and FnP all the while being T6

The Bikes are still amazing units - they have the speed, AND the new bonus to toughness, making them much harder to ID.

Wound allocation means you can relax on diversifying them, meaning they generally end up being cheaper. Challenges aren't an issue, since the Painboy (who's a character) can just refuse and not strike - but you still get the FnP so it's no loss.

Meganobs are still good - you will be paying less for them overall, so it's a cheaper alternative, but you have to pay to get them into the fight.

Overall, you're looking at two units who fill somewhat different rolls. Meganobs are more "fire-and-forget", in that you "fire" them off towards a target, they kill the target, possibly something within the area, before either being killed off or having to slog accross the board to get into another fight. Biker Nobs have the speed to constantly crash into the opponent's units over large distances, so they work well as a bulldozer unit.

And the price of either generally reflects this. Considering both the purpouse and price of the Biker Nobs, you want to build your army around them - they are a core ellement. Meganobs are more a support ellement synergizing with a larger overall playstyle. They are an integral part of a playstyle, considering the points investment, but a list isn't necessaries built around them.

So, you generally have to choose what benefits your army and/or playstyle the most.

Why no MANz in a trukk?!? Thats MY preferred method of MANz dropping.

I prefer MANz, but they need a transport to do anything. In a straight comparison, your average BikerNob squad goes for 350pts+ for 5+1, including 2 Power Klaws and a Painboy.
Alternatively, that would get you 6 Meganobz in a Deffrolla Wagon, or 7 Meganobz in Trukks (2 squads).

I like the Meganobz because I like 2 Wounds on a 2+ save. I also like getting 3 PK attacks as base. The weakest part of them is the speed, which is nicely countered by an open- top dedicated transport.

BikerNobz- Expensive melee upgrades, 4+/4++ cover, FNP, WS5, S5 Dakkaguns and raw speed, cannot hide in a transport.
Meganobz- Cheapest Klaws going, 2+ save, price difference is just enough for a 'free' transport. No Invuls, weak morale, generally useless if the transport goes and stupid-expensive models.

I prefer Meganobz for a few reasons, mainly because they're relatively cheap (small units are effective) and battlewagons are great in their own right so I don't worry as much about the cost of the transport since the transport is, in fact, awesome.

My main beef with Nob bikers is that they now have literally half the survivability they used to. Run the numbers on the 3+ cover save and 4+ feel no pain they had in 5th versus the 4+ cover and 5+ FNP they have now if you don't believe me. Not being ID'd by missiles and lascannons is good, and getting FNP versus said weapons is also good, but small arms are now a serious threat to them, and medium stuff like autocannons/scatter lasers etc. is a death sentence.

For me the final nail in the coffin for Nob bikers is Grey Knights. Any unit with an IC can just roll right over them without really trying, S5 + instant death AP3 = dead bikers.

Both are good. both have their own uses

manz get more PK on table for less points but have gak mobility. no invlun and only t4. If you are smart about them though you can usually get them into cover easily and go to ground on an obj at end of game if need be (which bikes cant do)

the bikes have great survivability until the painboy dies... 1 bike it seems to be is not as tough to kill as 1 manz. the 4+ cover/5+ invuln just doesn't beat 2+ and 5+/3+ cover for manz (if you can find it)

Vs. eachother, Bikers will eat manz


Manz are something you slingshot and forget about into enemy deployment

bikes can get into enemy deployment your T1, get assaulted on his T1, wipe his squad, turbo boost back to your own deployment on your T2 etc. They can go back home and take care of business, while the manz have to embark+move 12 that turn then can start flatting out


THe t4 v t5 is a big deal too as others have said.. getting ID'd by missiles/lascannons/marine with fists/hammers etc

I would go for nob bikers, but 3 MANz in a trukk is fun if you have the slotz spared from lootaz

jdjamesdean@mail.com - I'd highly recommend a bosspole or two in that set up, especially if you like to branch off the warboss and hit two things at once.

Kharrak - One thing, your opponent chooses who does not participate in the assault if you deny the challenge.


I like both, as everyone has said, they have different uses. In even combat, with 7 Mans vs 5+1 bikes, you're looking at 4 un-sv wounds vs the bikes and about 5 vs the manz (7 without an invulnerable).


I've been liking take Manz 5 plus the mad doc for the 5++ and 5+ FNP and put them in a looted wagon (trukk would be better). You could also add a non-mega armoured warboss, mek or even a warphead to this unit.

With the bikes, been taking them as everyone has described. Bikes seem to die quicker though.

Fouler wrote:
I prefer Meganobz for a few reasons, mainly because they're relatively cheap (small units are effective) and battlewagons are great in their own right so I don't worry as much about the cost of the transport since the transport is, in fact, awesome.

My main beef with Nob bikers is that they now have literally half the survivability they used to. Run the numbers on the 3+ cover save and 4+ feel no pain they had in 5th versus the 4+ cover and 5+ FNP they have now if you don't believe me. Not being ID'd by missiles and lascannons is good, and getting FNP versus said weapons is also good, but small arms are now a serious threat to them, and medium stuff like autocannons/scatter lasers etc. is a death sentence.

For me the final nail in the coffin for Nob bikers is Grey Knights. Any unit with an IC can just roll right over them without really trying, S5 + instant death AP3 = dead bikers.

I thought that they just had a 4+ cover in 5th like always. Exhaust could didnt change at all. FNP is slightly worse, BUT works vs everything that dosent ID us and we have a perm 5T now.


Anyways, I perfer nob bikers. So fast and deadly, especially with a boss. However theyre alot more expensive. Also I like the bikes guns as well. They come in handy enough and are pretty good in overwatch too due to TL.

MANz are pretty good, but you pretty much need to take a boss for that morale boost.

Meganobs are technically far stronger than biker nobs, but the issue is speed. Bikers can make their charge on turn 2 if they want to, Meganobz wont even be close yet even if the trukk or BW theyre in didnt get 1shotted the first turn.

However, 2+ save does let them shrug off a lot of firepower. If you can at least get them halfway to your enemy before being forced to depart the vehicle, you should be at the enemy by turn 3-4 which is where the game really hinges upon due to it ending the next turn (or could be).

Erm.... trukks can move 24 inches per turn. So turn 1, move 12 inches, then turbo boost another 12 inches. Then turn two, 6 inch move, disembark and charge

 KingCracker wrote:
Erm.... trukks can move 24 inches per turn. So turn 1, move 12 inches, then turbo boost another 12 inches. Then turn two, 6 inch move, disembark and charge

Trukks can have RPJ too eh?

so 13+12+7

32" + 6" disembark and charge on T2.
It's not a bad deal, no wonder people pop these before my BW's although the Kareen rule is amazing right now.

Bikez are sadly better than MANZ imho.
This is dakka edition, not choppa edition, bikerz have great dakka, and speed, as well as a 4+ cover save all the time (except in combat, but they are able to outrun most things).

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 KingCracker wrote:
Erm.... trukks can move 24 inches per turn. So turn 1, move 12 inches, then turbo boost another 12 inches. Then turn two, 6 inch move, disembark and charge

Trukks can have RPJ too eh?

so 13+12+7

32" + 6" disembark and charge on T2.
It's not a bad deal, no wonder people pop these before my BW's although the Kareen rule is amazing right now.

I love the ramshakle, specially since that damage is only STR3. Big deal!

 KingCracker wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 KingCracker wrote:
Erm.... trukks can move 24 inches per turn. So turn 1, move 12 inches, then turbo boost another 12 inches. Then turn two, 6 inch move, disembark and charge

Trukks can have RPJ too eh?

so 13+12+7

32" + 6" disembark and charge on T2.
It's not a bad deal, no wonder people pop these before my BW's although the Kareen rule is amazing right now.

I love the ramshakle, specially since that damage is only STR3. Big deal!

Yes it's simply amazing. Better yet I rolled away from Assaulty units and onto objectives ...

I didn't realize that until last nite playing a game. Than again it's the first time someone bothered to shoot at my trukks. Generally they're too bothered by the 3x Battlewagons loaded with shoota boyz; Deffrollas; 2x 10 man Loota squads behind an ADL with Gretchen manning a quad gun. Or the new addition 5xNob Bikers + Boss

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 KingCracker wrote:
Erm.... trukks can move 24 inches per turn. So turn 1, move 12 inches, then turbo boost another 12 inches. Then turn two, 6 inch move, disembark and charge

Trukks can have RPJ too eh?

so 13+12+7

32" + 6" disembark and charge on T2.
It's not a bad deal, no wonder people pop these before my BW's although the Kareen rule is amazing right now.

Why is Kareen amazing? Is it because the explosion still STR 3?

 whembly wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 KingCracker wrote:
Erm.... trukks can move 24 inches per turn. So turn 1, move 12 inches, then turbo boost another 12 inches. Then turn two, 6 inch move, disembark and charge

Trukks can have RPJ too eh?

so 13+12+7

32" + 6" disembark and charge on T2.
It's not a bad deal, no wonder people pop these before my BW's although the Kareen rule is amazing right now.

Why is Kareen amazing? Is it because the explosion still STR 3?

That's the main reason yes.

It's not bad if you wind up going the right direction either ^^

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 whembly wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 KingCracker wrote:
Erm.... trukks can move 24 inches per turn. So turn 1, move 12 inches, then turbo boost another 12 inches. Then turn two, 6 inch move, disembark and charge

Trukks can have RPJ too eh?

so 13+12+7

32" + 6" disembark and charge on T2.
It's not a bad deal, no wonder people pop these before my BW's although the Kareen rule is amazing right now.

Why is Kareen amazing? Is it because the explosion still STR 3?

That's the main reason yes.

It's not bad if you wind up going the right direction either ^^

Ah... gotcha

Thinking of bringing out my trukks again.... time to theory hammer some lists!

Buggies to block LOS and be bullet magnets/be in the enemys face. This has worked wonders for me so far. And really, the only counters are being fast enough to get around them anyways, or just focus on killing them off. Its pretty nice, though DE can just zip over them like nothing

 KingCracker wrote:
Buggies to block LOS and be bullet magnets/be in the enemys face. This has worked wonders for me so far. And really, the only counters are being fast enough to get around them anyways, or just focus on killing them off. Its pretty nice, though DE can just zip over them like nothing

Yeah... I'm coming around to using more buggies. They're great situational units.

Don't forget regular Eldar... waveserpent spam still sucks.

I guess I should just say Elder in general then BUT at least against DE, everything in your army can shoot down their transports, and then shooting/assaulting whats inside isnt scary at all. But I cant say too much against Eldar, as I havnt played against an Eldar player in many many years.

To be quite honest, i like both!

One more thought, bikes mega expensive compared to Manz points wise.

A points comparison.. Equal groups here

6 Manz + trukk 6 Kombi weapons



4,bikes (1 pain boy) banner 1 bc 2 pk 1 bp grot orderly

skyfi wrote:
One more thought, bikes mega expensive compared to Manz points wise.

A points comparison.. Equal groups here

6 Manz + trukk 6 Kombi weapons



4,bikes (1 pain boy) banner 1 bc 2 pk 1 bp grot orderly

Yuppers. Now, which one would you rather have? I know for certain, there would be a trukk with a gak load of death inside it on my table

 Billagio wrote:

Fouler wrote:
I prefer Meganobz for a few reasons, mainly because they're relatively cheap (small units are effective) and battlewagons are great in their own right so I don't worry as much about the cost of the transport since the transport is, in fact, awesome.

My main beef with Nob bikers is that they now have literally half the survivability they used to. Run the numbers on the 3+ cover save and 4+ feel no pain they had in 5th versus the 4+ cover and 5+ FNP they have now if you don't believe me. Not being ID'd by missiles and lascannons is good, and getting FNP versus said weapons is also good, but small arms are now a serious threat to them, and medium stuff like autocannons/scatter lasers etc. is a death sentence.

For me the final nail in the coffin for Nob bikers is Grey Knights. Any unit with an IC can just roll right over them without really trying, S5 + instant death AP3 = dead bikers.

I thought that they just had a 4+ cover in 5th like always. Exhaust could didnt change at all. FNP is slightly worse, BUT works vs everything that dosent ID us and we have a perm 5T now.


Anyways, I perfer nob bikers. So fast and deadly, especially with a boss. However theyre alot more expensive. Also I like the bikes guns as well. They come in handy enough and are pretty good in overwatch too due to TL.

MANz are pretty good, but you pretty much need to take a boss for that morale boost.

The 3+ cover I'm talking about is from 5th ed turbo-boosting, which is what you're doing if you aren't assaulting with bikers. I agree that bikers have their strong points and it isn't like MANz are universally better, it's just that I can't stomach spending 500 points on a unit that completely fails against grey knights. MANz have their issues with matchups as well, but nothing as severe as that.

 KingCracker wrote:

skyfi wrote:
One more thought, bikes mega expensive compared to Manz points wise.

A points comparison.. Equal groups here

6 Manz + trukk 6 Kombi weapons



4,bikes (1 pain boy) banner 1 bc 2 pk 1 bp grot orderly

Yuppers. Now, which one would you rather have? I know for certain, there would be a trukk with a gak load of death inside it on my table

Depends on if your flgs/club has house ruled 2+ saves away (and dedicated transports)... And av13+... And limited your foc even more lol.... Especially in lower legs of esc league.. I'm tryin to get 500 built and painted by jan 8th, but limited by stuff above plus can only take 0-1 of other slots and think you only allowed to pick one.. Think it's 1 hq 1-3 troop and 0-1 of somethin else?...


I know normally I'd take that Manz missile!!.... Or 4 ha

I think my biggest problem with a manz missile is once your transport inevitably blows up after you boost and you get into combat, youre stuck out in the open and have to footslog to the next scrap whereas bikers can get there faster.


They are much cheaper tho so I think im gonna pick up some black orcs and 40mm bases on ebay and try some converting. Does anyone know how big black orcs are? Are they nob sized or boy sized?

 Billagio wrote:
I think my biggest problem with a manz missile is once your transport inevitably blows up after you boost and you get into combat, youre stuck out in the open and have to footslog to the next scrap whereas bikers can get there faster.


They are much cheaper tho so I think im gonna pick up some black orcs and 40mm bases on ebay and try some converting. Does anyone know how big black orcs are? Are they nob sized or boy sized?

If you got 6 trucks / 2 wagons just steal domeone else's ride lol. Those ill gits ought a know betta!!! They probably ain't dropping all 8 transports and if so prob ain't shooting the 74 boys/megaboss/meganobs inside them... And aren't shooting buggies lootas planes kept as your biker boss koptas or nob bikers.


I like to bring both so opponents have to deal with bikes or Manz cuz one usually seems to make it to enemy deployment / own it



Black ork common base for conversion. Aobr nobs work great too. Plenty of tuts online to follow to boot

Read my friends Ork Codex the other day and it states that normal Ork Bikers have 2 wounds. Is this correct? Seems a bit strong that they would get an extra wound. Was just wondering cos both of us thought it was a bit odd.

Ta

Boar