Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2018/04/21 23:03:27
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
godardc wrote: What did the faq changed for the manticores ?
He is salty they didn't get improved.
But they're already a pretty solid decent unit. Sure Guard BS lets it down on occasion, but that can be mitigated, and isn't the units fault.
"In Warfare, preparation is the key. Determine that which your foe prizes the most. Then site your heavy weapons so that they overlook it. In this way, you may be quite sure that you shall never want for targets."
— Lion El'Jonson
"What I cannot crush with words I will crush with the tanks of the Imperial Guard!"
- Lord Commander Solar Macharius
2018/04/22 01:15:49
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
2018/04/22 02:31:22
Subject: Re:Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
necron99 wrote: So what's everyone's impression of hellhounds? I was going to drop my two wyverns for two hellhounds.
I like them, only used 1 in 1 low point game so far against my friend's eldar, it did decent work burning up his aspect warriors then won me the game by exploding next to his farseer and killing him when my friend finally managed to kill it.
2018/04/22 12:34:47
Subject: Re:Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
I was going to argue that you're good to go because flanking isn't deepstriking, but it actually looks like not because the restriction is called out on page 5 of the main rulebook FAQ as no move or advance for units coming in as reinforcements. Since abilities that circumvent this restriction are disallowed in the paragraph right below it, your TC's "Full Throttle" order could not be used in this case.
2018/04/22 20:28:38
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
godardc wrote: What did the faq changed for the manticores ?
He is salty they didn't get improved.
But they're already a pretty solid decent unit. Sure Guard BS lets it down on occasion, but that can be mitigated, and isn't the units fault.
Outshadowed by basilisk though. Well unless you are specifically aiming at 4+ or worse save guys aka infantry but then you are wasting d3 damage. And I would imagine IG isn't short on infantry killing power. If you want to kill anything with 3+ save or better get basilisk.
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2018/04/22 20:56:48
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
I really struggle to understand why people like Basilisks. I have one because I like the model, but I can never find a proper place for it in my lists. For a little over 100 pts. you get an average of 4 shots per turn, resulting in 2 hits (BS 4+) and after to-wound and save rolls you will probably end with one wound for D3 damage. It is pathetic. You can not use it to hunt elite infantry because it lacks volume of fire, you can not use it against vehicles or monsters because it deals too little damage per wound... basically you can not use it for anything. And the model itself is so big that you can not expect to hide it out of LOS that is critical for it's survival (T6 and 11 wounds is not a big deal).
If GW gave them an ability to shoot twice like LRs do, or boost BS to 3+ and damage to D6 (or better D3+3) they could be good, but now they are meh.
2018/04/22 21:02:11
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
AstraVlad wrote: I really struggle to understand why people like Basilisks.
Functionally it natively possesses the Catachan Brute Force ability. This allows you to combine Catachan with Cadian re-roll 1's (without paying for Harker), the Cadian relic and Overlapping Fields of Fire. The other indirect fire platform (Manticore) gives up a lot more by going over to Cadia, leaving the Basilisk as a more natural fit in one of the better regiments. Of course as always individual players' results and preferences will vary.
I really struggle to understand why people like Basilisks. I have one because I like the model, but I can never find a proper place for it in my lists. For a little over 100 pts. you get an average of 4 shots per turn, resulting in 2 hits (BS 4+) and after to-wound and save rolls you will probably end with one wound for D3 damage. It is pathetic. You can not use it to hunt elite infantry because it lacks volume of fire, you can not use it against vehicles or monsters because it deals too little damage per wound... basically you can not use it for anything. And the model itself is so big that you can not expect to hide it out of LOS that is critical for it's survival (T6 and 11 wounds is not a big deal).
If GW gave them an ability to shoot twice like LRs do, or boost BS to 3+ and damage to D6 (or better D3+3) they could be good, but now they are meh.
I like them because I play cadians and i have a bad habit of rolling 1's, the extra point of AP comes in handy sometimes too. and i'd disagree with your point about targeting it at vehicles or monster's, it does the same damage per hit as the manticore but with an extra AP, my basilisk has done consistent work against enemy vehicles since i've started using it.
2018/04/22 23:12:24
Subject: Re:Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Do you play cyclop demolition vehicles ? IMHO they are better than in 7th. Today, thanks to my opponent bad placing and forgetting it, one killed about 10 plague marines and wounded severly a deamon prince and 2 characters. It was great to ''snipe'' characters like that.
necron99 wrote: So what's everyone's impression of hellhounds? I was going to drop my two wyverns for two hellhounds.
I like them, only used 1 in 1 low point game so far against my friend's eldar, it did decent work burning up his aspect warriors then won me the game by exploding next to his farseer and killing him when my friend finally managed to kill it.
I like mine, and think it is decent too. Not partcularly good, but not bad, and yeah, it can explode. I don't see myself removing it from my list. But be aware that you wyverns can shoot without los, so are more durable.
gbghg wrote: it does the same damage per hit as the manticore but with an extra AP
A problem is: Manticore makes twice the number of shots compared to Basilisk so it can be used against infantry (with Catachan doctrine it will be about 8 shots per turn). But I personally do not think even Manticores are good enough to take them. For a comparable price you can have LRBT that will shoot twice, benefit from the same doctrines, can be ordered to do some funny things and have a bunch of other weapons to shoot with. Yes you will loose out-of-LOS-shooting capability but I rarely see situations where I both:
1. Need out-of-LOS shooting.
2. Can not deal with the target using massed mortar fire.
2018/04/23 09:08:34
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Some very quick mathhammer of Basilisk, manticore and LRBT. If they want to do 10 damage to a T7 3+ target, how many points would you need to invest into each type of vehicle?
This calculation is oversimplified. Let's do a little more math.
At first we assume that all our tanks are taken in the Catachan detachment and have full reroll for amount of shots made for LR and re-roll of one of two dice for Manticore. Let's assume that we re-roll all 1s and 2s keeping 3+. Thus our average amount of shots from 1D6 will be 4,17. We also assume that they are not moving, so no penalty for shooting for artillery and we have double shooting for LRBT. We also forget about hull and sponson weapons for simplicity's sake.
Our contenders will be: 1. Command LRBT in basic configuration with 1 HB for 197 pts. 2. Manticore for 143 pts. 3. Basilisc for 108 pts.
We will take 5 of each and see how much damage they'll do and how many points we'll need to pay per wound.
LRBT does 2D6 shots with full re-roll or 8,33 shots. Manticore re-rolls 1 dice for an average of 4,17 and rolls another dice for 3,5 so it has about 7,67 shots. It is a bit more difficult to calculate a Basilisc because it effectively have 2 re-rolls of 1 dice (we roll 2 dice selecting the best roll, but can re-roll one dice for being Catachan). Let's be generous and give it an average of 5 shots. So from 5 models we'll have: - 41,7 shots for LRBT Commanders; - 38,3 shots for Manticores; - 25 shots for Basilisks.
Now we have to take aim. Tank Commanders hit at 3+ and can order themselves to re-roll 1s to-hit, so they hit 77,8% of shots or 32,4 shots total. Manticores and Basilisks hit 50% and make 19,2 and 12,5 hits respectively.
Every unit wounds T7 at 3+, so we can expect to have an average of 21,6 wounds for Tank Commanders, 12,8 wounds for Manticores and 8,3 wounds of Basilisks. Against LRBTs and Manticores our target will use the same 5+ save (AP -2) and roll 6+ against Basilisks (AP -3), that means that amount of unsaved wounds will be: - 25,21 for Tank Commanders; - 14,91 for Manticores; - 11,11 for Basilisks.
And we will pay: - 39,1 pts for 1 wound inflicted by LRBT; - 48 pts for 1 wound by Manticore; - 48,6 pts for 1 wound by Basilisks.
That's why we regularly see Tank Commanders on the tables: because they are the most cost-effective unit we have (even when we leave out of equation their hull and sponson weapons -- which we should not) and rarely see Basilisks.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/23 11:18:13
2018/04/23 11:32:10
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
With so many CP in an IG army the Ariel spotter stratagem is pretty awesome when used with a basilisk. It only works on one unit per turn but as I only take one it’s not an issue. Taking them with Valhallan doctrine would mean it would keep firing until the end.
I’m now taking two LTBT and a basilisk in a vostroyan spearhead detachment. The 30” coaxial plus the 4.9” move mitigates a lot of the issue associated with with the conqueror. The basilisk doesn’t benefit as much from the doctrine but the +1 to hit rolls at on 1 CP can be useful.
I’m still taking cadia for my brigade detachment. Reroll misses is exceptional for my 3x3 mortar heavy weapon teams. If I didn’t love Using CPs so much I’d love to combo them with the old grudge warlord trait.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/23 13:24:40
2018/04/23 15:04:23
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
I just came back from playing mostly 4th edition and some 5th. What's up with the cost of Chimeras and where are their special rules? 55 points to around 93 with weapons, I couldn't believe my eyes. Are they worth their points? I was thinking of using one as a Bullgryn limo.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/04/23 15:22:44
2018/04/23 15:50:58
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
This is a bit late but thanks everyone who answered my question about the best Leman Russ variants. Shame the Exterminator is no good, my favourite looking Death Korps tank because it looks so WWl French
2018/04/23 16:04:13
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Afrika wrote: I just came back from playing mostly 4th edition and some 5th. What's up with the cost of Chimeras and where are their special rules? 55 points to around 93 with weapons, I couldn't believe my eyes. Are they worth their points? I was thinking of using one as a Bullgryn limo.
Its how I use it. I run double flamers on it. If I go first I advance and just pop smoke. If my opponent shoots it great. Means they arent shooting my more valuable tanks. And if he doesnt also great. I have 4 giant dudes who are about to pop out and smash faces.
2018/04/23 16:05:37
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Tiberius501 wrote: This is a bit late but thanks everyone who answered my question about the best Leman Russ variants. Shame the Exterminator is no good, my favourite looking Death Korps tank because it looks so WWl French
It's not that it's no good (it's not as bad as the Vanquisher), it's just that there's better out there. You could probably make it work if you really wanted to!
2018/04/23 16:53:14
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Tiberius501 wrote: This is a bit late but thanks everyone who answered my question about the best Leman Russ variants. Shame the Exterminator is no good, my favourite looking Death Korps tank because it looks so WWl French
It's not that it's no good (it's not as bad as the Vanquisher), it's just that there's better out there. You could probably make it work if you really wanted to!
Yeah it's workable, it's outclassed by other variants, but there are some advantages to it. And if the army is more lore leaning then its faults shouldn't deter too much.
"In Warfare, preparation is the key. Determine that which your foe prizes the most. Then site your heavy weapons so that they overlook it. In this way, you may be quite sure that you shall never want for targets."
— Lion El'Jonson
"What I cannot crush with words I will crush with the tanks of the Imperial Guard!"
- Lord Commander Solar Macharius
2018/04/23 16:56:14
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Afrika wrote: I just came back from playing mostly 4th edition and some 5th. What's up with the cost of Chimeras and where are their special rules? 55 points to around 93 with weapons, I couldn't believe my eyes. Are they worth their points? I was thinking of using one as a Bullgryn limo.
I have not found a worthwhile use for a Chimera in this game. They cost too many points (93 for the cheapest version) and IG can make better use of those points elsewhere. When your Chimera is destroyed, you have to roll a D6 for each passenger. For each roll of 1, a model is slain. That is very bad for high wound, high cost models with a 3+ Invulnerable Save. Their toughness, armor, number of wounds, and invuln saves are useless in that situation.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/23 16:56:53
The secret to painting a really big army is to keep at it. You can't reach your destination if you never take any steps.
Afrika wrote: I just came back from playing mostly 4th edition and some 5th. What's up with the cost of Chimeras and where are their special rules?
They are gone. An Chimeras are gone with them. If you need transport you can always take Taurox but generally you'll be better off without metal boxes at all.
2018/04/23 17:20:18
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
I like my gryphonne pattern chimera with twin heavy bolters in the turret with my tallarn list so they keep their BS. However, is this the most competitive? No. But it does keep my plasma special weapon teams alive. Love special weapons teams.
Taurox is about 20 points cheaper and packs a bigger punch with the twin autocannon.
Taurox Prime is the supreme leader of the metal bawks. For 20ish more point over the chimera, you get a nice amount of dakka with the Gatling and hot-shots. Drawback? Scions only. :(
But I do like my heavy bolter bawks with the gryphonne pattern. easy enough to convert as well. As stated above the heavy flamer delivery system is nice to bring dudes to the front line.
"Glory in our suffering, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint"
-Paul of Tarsus
If my post seems goofy, assume I am posting from my phone and the autocorrect elf in my phone is drunk again
2018/04/23 17:24:34
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
