Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Why do Loyalist need mirrored version of the chaos characters?
Chapters tend to follow the Codex Astarte. It doesn't make sense for them to have a Chaos equivalent of everything. Not all Chaos Space Marines come from Chapters that followed the Codex Astartes. They're not going to keep following the Space Book when they do go rogue, since they won't be confined to its structures.

Looking closely at the poses of the Havocs in the assembled shot and then at the sprues, I'm confident that you'll need duplicates of both sprues to make the pictured squad.

The lascannon and missile launcher models are identically posed and both use the body from the middle of the left-hand sprue. Therefore you would need two of the left-hand sprue frame to construct both of those models.

The Rotor Cannon and Heavy Bolter models are duplicated poses using the body from the right-hand sprue. Similarly, you would need two of the right-hand sprue to make both of those models.

The Champ is the only model that isn't doubled, in the shot, but since we know they're using two left-hand sprues already, you can assume you can construct two champs/special weapons guys from the kit.

On the sprue there are two sets of missile launcher claw arms for the backpack. There is also a second arm for the missile launcher/lascannon with an open hand to press against the weapon. I'm guessing that means more weapons on the last sprue.

Is it just me, or is the heavy bolter in the havoc kit different from the one in the new CSM box? And it's got extra cables.

 Brother Xeones wrote:
Looking closely at the poses of the Havocs in the assembled shot and then at the sprues, I'm confident that you'll need duplicates of both sprues to make the pictured squad.

The lascannon and missile launcher models are identically posed and both use the body from the middle of the left-hand sprue. Therefore you would need two of the left-hand sprue frame to construct both of those models.

The Rotor Cannon and Heavy Bolter models are duplicated poses using the body from the right-hand sprue. Similarly, you would need two of the right-hand sprue to make both of those models.

The Champ is the only model that isn't doubled, in the shot, but since we know they're using two left-hand sprues already, you can assume you can construct two champs/special weapons guys from the kit.

Specific bits from both could be duplicated on a third sprue to make sure you don't get enough for more than 5 bodies.

Nope. I'm positive the studio squad was created with 4 sprues—two each of the ones we're looking at now. They're just giving you a few optional parts here and there to camouflage the fact that you've got duplicate bodies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

Specific bits from both could be duplicated on a third sprue to make sure you don't get enough for more than 5 bodies.

I will allow that this is possible but why wouldn't they give you different posses for the last two guys then? I just don't think it's likely. One point in your favor though—isn't the loyalist Dev kit 3-sprues?

EDIT: OK, Nevermind. I was wrong. You can't find the armor torso fronts for either the missile launcher guy or the HB guy on these sprues. That's gotta mean there's one sprue we haven't seen which basically confirms a 3-sprue kit with no sprue dupication. It's just unfortunate the the poses are duplicated in that case...

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
Is it just me, or is the heavy bolter in the havoc kit different from the one in the new CSM box? And it's got extra cables.

Well, yeah. They’re in different kits.

 Brother Xeones wrote:
Nope. I'm positive the studio squad was created with 4 sprues—two each of the ones we're looking at now. They're just giving you a few optional parts here and there to camouflage the fact that you've got duplicate bodies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

Specific bits from both could be duplicated on a third sprue to make sure you don't get enough for more than 5 bodies.

I will allow that this is possible but why wouldn't they give you different posses for the last two guys then? I just don't think it's likely. One point in your favor though—isn't the loyalist Dev kit 3-sprues?

It saves them having to do an additional sculpt. These are all digital files so should be easy to duplicate. Usually when they do this kind of thing they invert the duplicated part so the dupe is a mirror of the original and not identical. Obviously that doesn't work here unless you want left-handed havocs.

 Irbis wrote:


You know, one thing I don't like about this guy - if 8th edition likes to give armies lots of support characters, where the hell is loyalist version?

And by that, I don't mean a new model or anything, just actually using existing ones. SM actually have lots of 'Lord X' characters, why GW won't give them datasheets?

See this guy, for one, you could give him slight variation of the rules given to CSM model above, and triple the sales overnight, but apparently GW hates creativity/money...

He's literally just any of the current Champs with a fancy weapon. There's your equivalent.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ghaz wrote:
From Facebook:

I kinda want to see someone put a negative spin on this. Dakka has never let me down before.

Joking aside, that's actually fantastic news as I had been planning to get the eBook version anyway. My paper version had an accident with some coffee.

The Havocs look like duplicates at first glance for two reasons

You've got two sets of two poses and they all have the same head.

This makes them look samey, but if you look closely, the details of the torso/legs are totally different. Now, this does probably mean that you'll have two 'poses' to work with in each box and if you want a squad of all 4 of one weapon, I bet they'll make you buy 4 boxes of havocs.

That said, the Chaos Marines can take the same weapons, so getting a bunch of havocs won't be too bad, and you can supplement them with the heavy weapons you get with the Chaos Marine box to make things more varied.

Either way, Havocs are just Devastators, and I don't see Devastators on the table much these days, so I kind of expect these to just... not be important? You don't have to buy this kit to make a good army, is what I'm saying.

I kinda want to see someone put a negative spin on this. Dakka has never let me down before.

Well, easy....they are incredibly stupid to think that we...........Nope, can't come up with anything! Someone else maybe?

You could easily argue they're showing preferential treatment to the people who bought a digital copy? i.e. selectively giving out free product to one consumer over another?

About ruddy time they gave us updated versions of e-books. Don't know why they don't include the errata info in all e-books.

 Elbows wrote:
You could easily argue they're showing preferential treatment to the people who bought a digital copy? i.e. selectively giving out free product to one consumer over another?

Yeah that's probably as close as we'll get to a "negative response". Sends a pretty clear message that GW prefers you to buy the digital vs the hard copy. I don't see them giving players free copies of the physical book.

But, of course, there are practical reasons for this.

This is probably the first time I've been tempted by an e-book. Or at least, this practice makes me think it's the way I might want to start going. Especially since I finally have a phone with the room on it.

-

Also, looking at those Havoc Sprues, I'll bet the last sprue is 2 bodies with options for regular bolters and probably bolt pistols/chainswords or something. I'm not holding out hope for multiple heavy weapons, though like I said, between the Chaos Marine kit, this, and Shadowspear, you should be able to keep too much 'sameyness' from infecting your army. I mean, there'll be 3 different autocannons ffs.

Someone'll scream they should put all the changes and data sheets up for free in PDF format any time now

It would be time for a PDF, ..

I hope that "Chaosy-Emperors Champion" got some tricks up his sleeve, otherwise I can't really see the point.

GW: But he has a powerfist that doesn't suffer -1 to hit and he inflicts mortal wounds on 6's!

Me: *yawn*...I mean, "wow".

I like how the Havocs have different armour and are not just regular CSM with big guns. They might be good for converting characters too, as they look a bit beefier than the regular blokes.

Well I managed to get sole Venom Crawler for reasonable price. Now I just have to hope that there is going to be reasonable battleforce available for CSM soon.

And more importantly: Good paint scheme!

I kinda want to see someone put a negative spin on this. Dakka has never let me down before.

- re-using cover art is lazy

- good opportunity for a new dex revising the failures of the first attempt, instead it's more stuff instead of fixing what needed fixing.

- as per their chart this does not contain the shadowspear daemonkin rules, you still need to get those separately.

- still contains WE and EC meaning they won't be getting a codex anytime soon

- many rules are just more of the same and lazy from what the previews tell us

I'd say I could go on to be extra edgy but I'm already reaching

drbored wrote:
The Havocs look like duplicates at first glance for two reasons

You've got two sets of two poses and they all have the same head.

This makes them look samey, but if you look closely, the details of the torso/legs are totally different. Now, this does probably mean that you'll have two 'poses' to work with in each box and if you want a squad of all 4 of one weapon, I bet they'll make you buy 4 boxes of havocs.

That said, the Chaos Marines can take the same weapons, so getting a bunch of havocs won't be too bad, and you can supplement them with the heavy weapons you get with the Chaos Marine box to make things more varied.

Either way, Havocs are just Devastators, and I don't see Devastators on the table much these days, so I kind of expect these to just... not be important? You don't have to buy this kit to make a good army, is what I'm saying.

Yes, this is correct. I was always saying that. What I thought was happening was that you just had several options for front detailing so that the armor panels for each were different.

HOWEVER, I can see now that I was actually wrong in saying that there would be 2 sets of 2 duplicate sprues.

The poses are the same, but the torso fronts for both the missile launcher guy and the HB guy are not on the sprue anywhere that I can see. So that must mean their really is an additional sprue they're not showing us—and that nearly confirms that this will be a 3-sprue kit with no sprue duplication at all.

I'm loving those chonky Terminators.

 Brother Xeones wrote:
Looking closely at the poses of the Havocs in the assembled shot and then at the sprues, I'm confident that you'll need duplicates of both sprues to make the pictured squad.

The lascannon and missile launcher models are identically posed and both use the body from the middle of the left-hand sprue. Therefore you would need two of the left-hand sprue frame to construct both of those models.

The Rotor Cannon and Heavy Bolter models are duplicated poses using the body from the right-hand sprue. Similarly, you would need two of the right-hand sprue to make both of those models.

The Champ is the only model that isn't doubled, in the shot, but since we know they're using two left-hand sprues already, you can assume you can construct two champs/special weapons guys from the kit.

EDIT: OK, Nevermind. I was wrong. You can't find the armor torso fronts for either the missile launcher guy or the HB guy on these sprues. That's gotta mean there's one sprue we haven't seen which basically confirms a 3-sprue kit with no sprue dupication. It's just unfortunate the the poses are duplicated in that case...

I like the fact that some of the havocs have shoulder mounted weapons while some aren't.

Lord Executioner.

It’s growing on me, but not as a 40k Model.

AoS? Yes, absolutely. But not grabbing me as a 40k piece. Perhaps the inevitable 360 will soften that opinion in due course.

Man, I wish we would get leaks already. It's killing me to wait until tomorrow morning when the early review videos go live.

Lord Executioner is the weakest model of the release imo. Starting to doubt we are going to see updated Berzerkers.... possibly ever. Hope I’m wrong.

 Virules wrote:
Man, I wish we would get leaks already. It's killing me to wait until tomorrow morning when the early review videos go live.

Same, i'm dying to know the full rules for the lord discordant and all the renegade rules. There seems to be great potential in the vigilius 2 detachments. So much unknown that needs to be known >.<

My money is on Calgar dying. And before people whine about how how he just got a new model, I still remember Valten. That dude got THREE models and still died...

...and then died AGAIN because they had to retcon the first death out.

So Calgar dies, I'm betting. And since we know that Cypher is important to what's going on for Round 2, I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that Luther and/or the Lion make and appearance. I mean, the Dark Angels were already there in force in Round 1...