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So... I want to make a chaos lord of tzeentch who rides a bike and wields two plasma pistols. (used to want a power lance as well, but I realized I cannot have all of the above).

The rule I have to question is whether or not I can dual wield them. The line, verbatim, off of the Chaos Wargear List, reads like this: "A model can replace one weapon with one of the following."

Am I to understand that this means that you can replace any weapon with one of the weapons off the list as often as you desire or that you can only replace one weapon one time?

You can replace any weapon he has, but since he's only got a ccw and a bolt pistol, you can only replace those and limits you to two weapons.

It's a good question ... the answer is maybe.

If it had read may swap a weapon for one weapon. it would be an easy yes.

The problem is may swap one weapon for one weapon, seems to imply that you can only do it once. I'm an old player so i don't personally think this way but have to admit the possibility.

ah yes, I had overlooked that he did not have a bolter in his profile. Thank you very much for clearing that up for me.

You can do it, as you have a bolt pistol and a CCW that you can trade for a plasma pistol each.

"A model can replace one weapon with one of the following."

In that case you may replace one weapon.

You have no allowance to replace more than one weapon, so you can not take 2 plasma pistols.

 DeathReaper wrote:
"A model can replace one weapon with one of the following."

In that case you may replace one weapon.

You have no allowance to replace more than one weapon, so you can not take 2 plasma pistols.

My reading of ' with one of the following' is that it means that the character can make 1 for 1 substitutions for wargear, not go "Ok, I replace my bolt pistol with a plasma pistol and a power fist and a lightning claw and a midget with a shotgun", not that he can only take a single option once. (In more technical terms, it allows the model to replace one of X or Y with any one item from the list Z).

How many weapons does the rule allow you to replace, One or Two or more?

They cover this is other codexes when they can replace 1 or 2 weapons by saying "replace bolt pistol and/or chainsword with:", SM Captain rules.

 DeathReaper wrote:
They cover this is other codexes when they can replace 1 or 2 weapons by saying "replace bolt pistol and/or chainsword with:", SM Captain rules.

Thats right. In fact they even cover it in the CSM dex just above the ranged weapons in the Melee weapons sections with almost the exact same wording.

 Lord Harrab wrote:
You can replace any weapon he has, but since he's only got a ccw and a bolt pistol, you can only replace those and limits you to two weapons.

You could always be beardy though.

Trade out a CCW for combi-weapon.

Trade out the Combi-XX for a lance
Trade out the Bolter part for pistol.

Eh... combi-weapon is one weapon.

 DeathReaper wrote:
How many weapons does the rule allow you to replace, One or Two or more?

They cover this is other codexes when they can replace 1 or 2 weapons by saying "replace bolt pistol and/or chainsword with:", SM Captain rules.

these aren't the C:SM rules they are the CSM rules which are worded differently. The CSM lord is allowed to take options from the melee, ranged, artifact, and special issue war-gear section. The ranged options are replace a weapon with one of the following.

The chaos artifacts part states you can only take one of them per model, the other charts don't.

Actually, the terminator stuff say can exchange combi-bolter for one of the following. That is a limit of one per model.

The line of "can exchange one weapon for one of the following" also is a limit of one per model. I have two weapons I may exchange 1 for x, y or z. It doesn't say I can exchange my second weapons for y when I traded the frist for z.

its the same way you can put loghtning claws on a chaos lord. replace the bolt pistol and the chainsword for plasma pistols.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
its the same way you can put loghtning claws on a chaos lord. replace the bolt pistol and the chainsword for plasma pistols.

But you cannot do that. You can only have one of the ranged weapons options in the wargear list.
You can have plasma + bolt pistol, plasma and a melee weapon but not dual plasma.

The melee weapons allow you to swap bolt pistol and/or ccw, the ranged do not.

 liturgies of blood wrote:
Eh... combi-weapon is one weapon.

Actually it's not.

Each part is listed as a weapon.


PG 56 Combi-Weapons.

Primary Weapon-Boltgun
Secondary Weapon-"plasma,flamer,etc"

Pg 56 BGB

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 liturgies of blood wrote:
Eh... combi-weapon is one weapon.

Actually it's not.

Each part is listed as a weapon.



PG 56 Combi-Weapons.

Primary Weapon-Boltgun
Secondary Weapon-"plasma,flamer,etc"

Pg 56 BGB

Oh my god jd....
tell me you didn't just do that...
EVERYONE REMAIN CALM!

Neronoxx wrote:


Oh my god jd....
tell me you didn't just do that...
EVERYONE REMAIN CALM!

I hate when I double quote too.

Something I picked up from the ole Chaos Bike Thread.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

Neronoxx wrote:


Oh my god jd....
tell me you didn't just do that...
EVERYONE REMAIN CALM!

I hate when I double quote too.

Something I picked up from the ole Chaos Bike Thread.

And it was disproved in the ole Chaos Bike thread too. It's a single weapon.

rigeld2 wrote:

And it was disproved in the ole Chaos Bike thread too. It's a single weapon.

Must have missed that part entirely.
It's one option.
They're both a weapon.
"you cannot fire both weapons in the same turn" pg 56 BGB.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

And it was disproved in the ole Chaos Bike thread too. It's a single weapon.

Must have missed that part entirely.
It's one option.
They're both a weapon.
"you cannot fire both weapons in the same turn" pg 56 BGB.

In context referring to the primary and secondary. Good job only quoting one sentence out of the paragraph though.

Sorry, I misremembered the Biker thread. It's not legal though.
Edit: it's like comparing Glancing or Penetrating Hits to normal Hits. They share a word, but are not comparable.

rigeld2 wrote:

In context referring to the primary and secondary. Good job only quoting one sentence out of the paragraph though.

Sorry, I misremembered the Biker thread. It's not legal though.

It's really not.

When you roll a cover save for a vehicle, you discard the hit. Page 75 BrB. According to you, that means that the entire hit is discarded, not just the Glancing or Penetrating hit.

rigeld2 wrote:
It's really not.

When you roll a cover save for a vehicle, you discard the hit. Page 75 BrB. According to you, that means that the entire hit is discarded, not just the Glancing or Penetrating hit.

It kind of is, I'm talking weapons. You're talking "smoke"

Chaos lord may exchange any weapon IIRC for a pistol. They're both weapons.

Off to work.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
It's really not.

When you roll a cover save for a vehicle, you discard the hit. Page 75 BrB. According to you, that means that the entire hit is discarded, not just the Glancing or Penetrating hit.

It kind of is, I'm talking weapons. You're talking "smoke"

Chaos lord may exchange any weapon IIRC for a pistol. They're both weapons.

Off to work.

They're a Primary and Secondary Weapon housed in a single Weapon.
Just like a Glancing or Penetrating Hit is caused by a Hit.

Find permission to trade in a Primary Weapon.

 gruebot wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
They cover this is other codexes when they can replace 1 or 2 weapons by saying "replace bolt pistol and/or chainsword with:"

In fact they even cover it in the CSM dex just above the ranged weapons in the Melee weapons sections with almost the exact same wording.

True that. A Chaos model with access to Melee can replace and/or, meaning he can replace both weapons if he wants to. Ranged section says replace one, period.

That said I surely wouldn't have a problem with it in a friendly game - a Chaos Lord with twin plasma pistols is a Chaos Lord without a Daemon Weapon or other nasty special issue CCW.

rigeld2 wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
It's really not.

When you roll a cover save for a vehicle, you discard the hit. Page 75 BrB. According to you, that means that the entire hit is discarded, not just the Glancing or Penetrating hit.

It kind of is, I'm talking weapons. You're talking "smoke"

Chaos lord may exchange any weapon IIRC for a pistol. They're both weapons.

Off to work.

They're a Primary and Secondary Weapon housed in a single Weapon.
Just like a Glancing or Penetrating Hit is caused by a Hit.

Find permission to trade in a Primary Weapon.

Chaos Lord may replace "one" weapon with

A primary weapon is one weapon.

A secondary weapon is one weapon.

The chaos lord may trade "one" out.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
It's really not.

When you roll a cover save for a vehicle, you discard the hit. Page 75 BrB. According to you, that means that the entire hit is discarded, not just the Glancing or Penetrating hit.

It kind of is, I'm talking weapons. You're talking "smoke"

Chaos lord may exchange any weapon IIRC for a pistol. They're both weapons.

Off to work.

They're a Primary and Secondary Weapon housed in a single Weapon.
Just like a Glancing or Penetrating Hit is caused by a Hit.

Find permission to trade in a Primary Weapon.

Chaos Lord may replace "one" weapon with

A primary weapon is one weapon.

A secondary weapon is one weapon.

The chaos lord may trade "one" out.

It says one weapon. Does it say one primary weapon?
Or one secondary weapon?

The weapon is the combi. The parts of it are the primary and secondary weapon. These two things are not interchangable.

Weapons add strengrh to dmg vs vehiles right?
So if I fire my secondary weapon it doesnt beings youre telling me its not a wepon. If it was csm lord can trade it out.