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Howdy everyone,

While we love all the amazing things happening in the crowd-funding arena and these are all most certainly news-worthy topics that rightfully belong in our News & Rumors forum, we've decided that once a crowd-fuding project has finished its funding period (either successfully or unsuccessfully) then if people are still looking to discuss the topic we're going to move those threads into the forum appropriate for that game/manufacturer.

So a Mantic Kickstarter thread will get moved into the Mantic forum after their funding period is over, for example, with any project for a game that doesn't have a dedicated forum on Dakka here being moved into our Misc. Games forum.

While we know that news regarding crowd-funding projects after their funding period is still news, we also feel that this policy will best compromise between giving crowd-fuding projects the maximum exposure while they need it but still allowing our News and Rumors forum to have a higher influx of new stuff on its first page. Especially given that in many cases there is often very little news on crowd-funding projects for months and months after their funding period is over.

Obviously when there is truly new information regarding these projects as full-fledged retail products then it is perfectly fine to start another thread in the News & Rumors forum to discuss that game or line of miniatures.


Therefore, in the next few days you may notice that some of these crowd-funding threads for projects that have finished their funding period start to disappear...but don't fret! They will just have been moved to their new forum home!


Thanks!

Will video game KS's and non-gaming KS's be moved to the video gaming and off topic forums?

So,if there's a new Dreadball KS model out, pics get posted in the... Warpath thread?

Overall, I'm not seeing how this will have much of an effect other than removing the word "Kickstarter" from topic titles once they are complete, to please the vocal minority that have a bug up their butt about crowdfunding for whatever reason.
The exact same discussion will still be there, just in a different thread in N&R as absolutely no-one uses the subforums and that will not change (I say that as one of the oddball folks who *does* use them :p).
E.g.

As soon as the Kingdom Death Kickstarter finishes, it gets moved to the obscure Generic Misc forum, and someone else creates a new Kingdom Death new releases thread, and discussion about the Kickstarter (as KS-funded minis will quite naturally encompass 100% of their product releases for the next year or so) continues as normal in the new thread ?

 SilverMK2 wrote:
Will video game KS's and non-gaming KS's be moved to the video gaming and off topic forums?

They should generally already be there unless they somehow have some connection to miniature gaming (in some form).

Feel free to alert any thread in the news & rumor forum that isn't miniature games related or send a moderator a PM to get them to check it out. They may end up deciding that there is indeed a link to miniature gaming in their opinion, but if there genuinely isn't one, then it should get moved to the proper forum.

Not really seeing how showing off new sculpts in the Endless' Kickstarter thread post Kickstarter is any less news than someone posting White Dwarf leaks in a GW Thread or new Infinity Sculpts in the Infinity N&R thread.

 scarletsquig wrote:
So,if there's a new Dreadball KS model out, pics get posted in the... Warpath thread?

Overall, I'm not seeing how this will have much of an effect other than removing the word "Kickstarter" from topic titles once they are complete, to please the vocal minority that have a bug up their butt about crowdfunding for whatever reason.
The exact same discussion will still be there, just in a different thread in N&R as absolutely no-one uses the subforums and that will not change (I say that as one of the oddball folks who *does* use them :p).
E.g.

As soon as the Kingdom Death Kickstarter finishes, it gets moved to the obscure Generic Misc forum, and someone else creates a new Kingdom Death new releases thread?

Here's the thing:

Not everyone comes into a thread keeping up with the entire thing...so a crowd-fuding project thread will often have many, many pages discussing the nuances of the actual funding campaign that are essentially useless to the discussion once the funding period is over. But to a new user looking at those threads, they aren't usually updated properly (with their thread titles getting edited to tell you where the new info starts) once that funding period is over...as often those threads are run by the company reps who are pretty busy post-funding getting the actual project going.

So yes, it actually is a good thing to start fresh with a new thread in the news & rumors forum on the topic once the funding period ends, because then the information for anyone new to the project can be collated in a way that makes sense (and is no longer referencing a crowd-fudinding initiative that is now closed).

And as always, including a link to the previous kickstarter thread on the project can allow those who are interested in past information to find their way to it.

I understand that no solution is perfect to everyone's sensibilities, but we've analyzed the traffic of the News & Rumors forum pretty thoroughly and we believe that this change is necessary.

So, when a Kickstarter ends move Kickstarter thread to the wasteland and make a new N&R Thread for the game system?

Sounds like a solution to me. Game threads like Zombicide have become bloated monstrosities that could do with a fresh thread for the weekly scenario releases and the odd expansion previews.

 Cyporiean wrote:
So, when a Kickstarter ends move Kickstarter thread to the wasteland and make a new N&R Thread for the game system?

Yeah, as soon as there is actual news for said project it would be perfectly fine to have a thread about it in the News & Rumor forum again.

But this way there is an easily understandable separation between projects that are currently in a crowd-funding period and those that are post funding-period and actively working towards producing a product like any other traditional company.

Make sense?

 yakface wrote:

 Cyporiean wrote:
So, when a Kickstarter ends move Kickstarter thread to the wasteland and make a new N&R Thread for the game system?

Yeah, as soon as there is actual news for said project it would be perfectly fine to have a thread about it in the News & Rumor forum again.

But this way there is an easily understandable separation between projects that are currently in a crowd-funding period and those that are post funding-period and actively working towards producing a product like any other traditional company.

Make sense?

Is there a 'grace period' (not really the term I want to use..) for how long post-Kickstarter you'd want something to be in the KS thread rather than the N&R thread?

IE: Dreadball showing off MVP greens a week or so after the Kickstarter ended.

Anything that moves ancient kick starters away from the news and rumors is welcome, and since its completely legit to start a new thread once some actual news surface i don't see a problem with this. In fact, this method will allow for better exposure.

This is good news and a totally logical compromise

 yakface wrote:


So yes, it actually is a good thing to start fresh with a new thread in the news & rumors forum on the topic once the funding period ends, because then the information for anyone new to the project can be collated in a way that makes sense (and is no longer referencing a crowd-fudinding initiative that is now closed).

And as always, including a link to the previous kickstarter thread on the project can allow those who are interested in past information to find their way to it.

That's a good point, it's quite hard to update an OP for a KS thread without removing parts of the OP that, by the end of the KS is already gargantuan (with tons of images/videos and a mountain of text), and better off archived.

Plus people tend to ramble on about shipping and "omg i cant wait" posts for a dozen pages after a KS ends, a discussion which I can agree would be better off elsewhere (might want to make a ruling on that to encourage people to use the moved-to-the-misc-section KS thread for "I'm excited!" or "Still no package in Oz", "I'm stalking the postman to make sure my dog don't eat my package" style posts that aren't really N&R discussion.

However, this assumes that the person who starts the new thread is willing to keep the OP and title updated with relevant information, rather than posting it because "me first, I wanna be first".

That's the real problem with the N&R board, IMO the thread-posting guidelines would be better if they included "Don't post a generic company N&R thread or Kickstarter thread unless you're willing to updating the OP/ title".

Currently only about half of people starting threads are committed to updating them in a manner that allows people to skim-read the thread titles and OP effectively.

Having proper threads by committed posters also helps to avoid fragmentation and duplicate/ redundant posting. For example, almost no-one other than me actually posts to the official Mantic N&R threads currently, they were 3 months inactive when I made my latest posts in them, during that time period everyone simply either posted in the KS threads or made a pile of smaller threads about individual news items (there's 2 of these on the front page currently), the official threads rapidly fell into disuse as they contained absolutely zero relevant information about the games in the OP and were never updated.

Taking away the KS threads isn't a problem per se, but you might find that what replaces them could be an even bigger problem unless its done properly. At the moment they do hoover up a lot of discussion that would otherwise spill out across multiple new threads.

I think this is really smart my only request would be to keep a pointer from the thread that was moved (i.e., instead of just moving it with no sign of where it's gone to, there's the "moved" icon that you can click on the thread and be taken to the appropriate subforum).

 scarletsquig wrote:

That's the real problem with the N&R board, IMO the thread-posting guidelines would be better if they included "Don't post a generic company N&R thread or Kickstarter thread unless you're willing to updating the OP/ title".

Currently only about half of people starting threads are committed to updating them in a manner that allows people to skim-read the thread titles and OP effectively.

Having proper threads by committed posters also helps to avoid fragmentation and duplicate/ redundant posting. For example, almost no-one other than me actually posts to the official Mantic N&R threads currently, they were 3 months inactive when I made my latest posts in them, during that time period everyone simply either posted in the KS threads or made a pile of smaller threads about individual news items (there's 2 of these on the front page currently), the official threads rapidly fell into disuse as they contained absolutely zero relevant information about the games in the OP and were never updated.

Taking away the KS threads isn't a problem per se, but you might find that what replaces them could be an even bigger problem unless its done properly. At the moment they do hoover up a lot of discussion that would otherwise spill out across multiple new threads.

You're right that this is a problem and one that doesn't have an easy solution as you don't want to prevent people from being able to start threads in the forum but at the same time you never know when a topic is going to be popular enough to become an uber-thread and who exactly will be committed to properly updating it.

The only suggestion I can make to those people who do care is that you can always essentially suggest a thread title update yourself by clicking the 'notify moderator' button on any post in an uber thread and then in the comments field for the moderator explain what the new thread title should say. Pressing the notification button on the post in the thread where you think the current thread title should be directing users to is another helpful way to get this point across to the mod (on top of telling them in the comment field).

That way, when the moderator gets that alert they can update the thread title with your suggestion if they agree with it.

So if anyone wants to be a 'thread champion' but didn't start the thread themselves, please feel free to utilize this method to help out!

I guess this seems a reasonable move

but could we also dump the GW 'news/rumours' threads that degenerate into wishlisting/'I can't be bothered reading this thread, what is the rule for X' into the appropriate 40K/fantasy forum ?

As these too degenerate into mega-wandering threads

I support this. Good call.

Also helps to trim the fat on the threds.

Keep it coming by picking up the conversation in the allotted area, and cut the conversation after the things done with. The pre game/ post game conversation can even be removed, I would think. AFTER the project is finished. Then continue on by talking the projects nuances. ( figures. new stuff. additional material...)

Great Idea. Not "Kickstarter needs its own area" great, but a great idea to spread the conversations.

+1 to the idea

I'm satisfied with this compromise.

So, I have my Blackwater Gulch news thread, which started as a KS thread, then became general news, then became a KS thread again, and is now back to news. Will this get moved and I should just make a new News thread (wouldn't mind starting fresh with a new thread anyway)?

What happens if I make a new Kickstarter campaign, would that go in the generic new news thread? old KS thread? or make an all new "This is our all new KS thread!" thread, and only use that for stuff about the new campaign?

Three cheers for Yakface!

 yakface wrote:

The only suggestion I can make to those people who do care is that you can always essentially suggest a thread title update yourself by clicking the 'notify moderator' button on any post in an uber thread and then in the comments field for the moderator explain what the new thread title should say. Pressing the notification button on the post in the thread where you think the current thread title should be directing users to is another helpful way to get this point across to the mod (on top of telling them in the comment field).

That way, when the moderator gets that alert they can update the thread title with your suggestion if they agree with it.

So if anyone wants to be a 'thread champion' but didn't start the thread themselves, please feel free to utilize this method to help out!

Ah, cool. I'll do that.

If we're losing the Dreadball KS thread, then the current Warpath rumours thread needs to state that it covers all of Mantic's sci-fi stuff, including Dreadball... otherwise there will just be a ton of mini-threads for each new release.

 Chronepsis wrote:
I'm satisfied with this compromise.

Indeed. Kickstarter threads frequently pique my interest and I do follow some of them from beginning to funding but they do clutter the first page of N&R for months later with almost no actual news.

So... Dakka is becoming a natural extension of the Kickstarter site...

Not sure if I'm OK with this... I mean...

What is the difference between a pre-order and a Kickstarter? That we, wargamers, are supporting one promotional marketing manouver and skipping the other.



What was the difference between the Zombiecide Kickstarter and a Zombiecide Pre-Order?? Someone, please, I need an answer.
Because that wasn't helping a proyect to become a reality, that was a pre-order move disguised as a Kickstarter. The same happened with Sedition Wars and Kisckstarter is becoming now a Pre-Order tool for CoolMiniorNot.

So, why supporting the Kickstarter innitiatives when they are just marketing manouvers? Is Dakka making any profit from this? because I would say that Dakka is a very important forum and their POWER in making a Kickstarter succesfull should be payed.

Innitiatives like Tre Manor and his Red Box games Kickstarter have all my support. Because I see that it is a good project and he needs support. That is OK.

Tomorrow, GW will make a Kickstarter and will ask for help... for help and support of the fans... and they are a fething big company that doesn't need any help at all.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
...but could we also dump the GW 'news/rumours' threads that degenerate into wishlisting/'I can't be bothered reading this thread, what is the rule for X' into the appropriate 40K/fantasy forum ?

I fully support this. In fact, I think that the DA rumor thread would have been better handled by moving it to the 40k Discussion forum instead of being locked.

 BrookM wrote:
Sounds like a solution to me. Game threads like Zombicide have become bloated monstrosities that could do with a fresh thread for the weekly scenario releases and the odd expansion previews.

For games that have had a lot of support like Zombicide it might also be a good idea for the OP to add in all the links to the post-KS additional free DLC scenarios.

 scipio.au wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Sounds like a solution to me. Game threads like Zombicide have become bloated monstrosities that could do with a fresh thread for the weekly scenario releases and the odd expansion previews.

For games that have had a lot of support like Zombicide it might also be a good idea for the OP to add in all the links to the post-KS additional free DLC scenarios.

Agreed, though I think we don't need to tell Adam that, he's done a sterling job on that thread so far!

How is Dakka limiting the longevity of KS threads in News and Rumours an indication that they are becoming an extension of Kickstarter...whatever that means?

 BobbaFett wrote:
So... Dakka is becoming a natural extension of the Kickstarter site...

I don’t know how you’d read any of Yak’s announcement as that.

 BobbaFett wrote:
What is the difference between a pre-order and a Kickstarter? That we, wargamers, are supporting one promotional marketing manouver and skipping the other.

I’d’ve thought that obvious:

1. Discounted price on item (ie. lower than what retail is likely to be in most – not all – cases).
2. Additional content (sometimes in the form of additional scenarios/rules/campaigns/map programs).
3. Limited Edition playing pieces/miniatures (this one has to be the most obvious).
4. Access to special add-ons (like those Battlefoam cases) at discounted prices.
5. Ancilliary products (T-shirts, posters, coffee mugs, stickers, novelty condoms, etc.).

 BobbaFett wrote:
What was the difference between the Zombiecide Kickstarter and a Zombiecide Pre-Order?? Someone, please, I need an answer.

Zombicide Pre-Order = You get Zombicide!
Zombicide Kickstarter = You get Zombicide, a T-shirt, a lithograph, a map building program, an additional campaign, half a box worth of additional Zombie miniatures, extra cards to use those miniatures, 8 or so additional hero miniatures (and their Zombified forms).

But all of this is obvious, and there’s no way on earth you don’t already know all this. You’re just trying to grind a (really blunt) axe with Kickstarter.

 BobbaFett wrote:
The same happened with Sedition Wars and Kisckstarter is becoming now a Pre-Order tool for CoolMiniorNot.

Pre-Ordering Sedition Wars = You get Sedition Wars!
Kickstarting Sedition Wars = You get Sedition Wars, an additional campaign, a patch, 12 additional soldiers, 17 additional bad guy minis, limited resin scult, a painting DVD by the God-damned McVeys of all people, an extra tank, a bunch of various tokens made into miniature form (rather than cardboard or plastic chits), 6 bone crabs (which may not be sold separately), 6 limited edition miniatures not available outside of the KS and access to a further 13 minis not available outside of the KS (no novelty condoms sadly).

But again, you know all this. Anyone with half a brain and eyes would have been able to figure this out. This means that your beef is either with Kickstarter or, more likely, CMoN.

HBMC is partially right and partially wrong. Getting extra content or discounted pricing really isn't uncommon for pre-sales either. However the true difference between Kickstarter and Pre-sale is giving companies the visibility of how many people are planning to buy their stuff and over a matter of time seeing what people what made of don't want made. There is a feedback process to Kickstarter that isn't 100% apparent. Overall, I have zero issues with Kickstarter as it does have a rather vital role in our market now. It's a means for a product to be displayed for possible creation and if the people don't like it it won't get funded and potentially sale the maker additional invested money in a flop product. People vote with their wallets, and that is nothing but win win.