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Ghostkeel pays 50pts for a shield gen and 35pts for stims?

Ouuuuuuuccchhhh.....

That kinda kills what i wanted to do with them lol. Thats 205pts EACH if you want shield and stims on them. 210 with a nonflamer gun.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Ghostkeel pays 50pts for a shield gen and 35pts for stims?

Ouuuuuuuccchhhh.....

That kinda kills what i wanted to do with them lol. Thats 205pts EACH if you want shield and stims on them. 210 with a nonflamer gun.

Is that confirmed? luchiban said the Stormsurge pays 50 for a Shield Generator, I don't recall anything being said about Ghostkeels.

Caederes wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Ghostkeel pays 50pts for a shield gen and 35pts for stims?

Ouuuuuuuccchhhh.....

That kinda kills what i wanted to do with them lol. Thats 205pts EACH if you want shield and stims on them. 210 with a nonflamer gun.

Is that confirmed? luchiban said the Stormsurge pays 50 for a Shield Generator, I don't recall anything being said about Ghostkeels.

luke1705 just said it

Caederes wrote:
I asked this earlier but didn't get a response so I feel like it bears repeating.

When you perform the Combined Fire thing, if a Stormsurge adds its shooting to the attack, the wording of the rule suggests that it can choose to shoot just one of its guns at the target and then still fire its other guns at other targets per the GMC rules. I think it's the same story as with Target Locks. Would certainly make the Stormsurge an auto-take for Hunter Contingents!

It says the shooting unit must shoot at the same target as the other units. You could read that as "must shoot all guns at the same target" but I feel like it's satisfied by shooting a single gun, so you should be able to shoot at other things. Do you retain the +1 BS buff? I'm not sure. It says "When 3 or more units combine their firepower, the firing models add 1 to their ballistic skill". It sort of implies that it's the models firing AT that target if you ask me, but as per the english language, I think you still get the buff even when you target lock (or stormsurge GMC to a different target)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Hmm. 9 Crisis suits in a unit sounds like a fun unit to Join Shadowsun to- All Stealth+ Shroud and 3d6 JSJ!

Definitely the most fluffy way to run Farsight Enclaves

Sounds like the same thing as markerlights.

Markerlights do not buff the unit as a whole, it buffs the ones firing at the marked unit. If any model fires at a different model they dont have the benefits. I dont see the Combined Fire being any different.

Vineheart01 wrote:

luke1705 just said it

Ah my bad lol! Eh, I wouldn't bother with either upgrade on a Ghostkeel anyway. Not enough Ignores Cover in the game (outside of Tau) to justify them, plus it just puts them up into Y'Vahra territory which is where it does not want to be.

luke1705 wrote:

Caederes wrote:
I asked this earlier but didn't get a response so I feel like it bears repeating.

When you perform the Combined Fire thing, if a Stormsurge adds its shooting to the attack, the wording of the rule suggests that it can choose to shoot just one of its guns at the target and then still fire its other guns at other targets per the GMC rules. I think it's the same story as with Target Locks. Would certainly make the Stormsurge an auto-take for Hunter Contingents!

It says the shooting unit must shoot at the same target as the other units. You could read that as "must shoot all guns at the same target" but I feel like it's satisfied by shooting a single gun, so you should be able to shoot at other things. Do you retain the +1 BS buff? I'm not sure. It says "When 3 or more units combine their firepower, the firing models add 1 to their ballistic skill". It sort of implies that it's the models firing AT that target if you ask me, but as per the english language, I think you still get the buff even when you target lock (or stormsurge GMC to a different target)

That was my interpretation as well. It's amazing how good the Stormsurge is with the full codex leak.

50 points? That's kind of excessive for a unit that should always have a 2+ cover save and rarely get to use its 4++...

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Sounds like the same thing as markerlights.

Markerlights do not buff the unit as a whole, it buffs the ones firing at the marked unit. If any model fires at a different model they dont have the benefits. I dont see the Combined Fire being any different.

The markerlight section is much more clear in how that works. If you ask me, I think they intended for it to be the same, but there will be a section in YMDC about how this works. You heard it here first on channel 7 news.

Caederes wrote:
It's amazing how good the Stormsurge is with the full codex leak.

Thanks GW, for once again not bothering to think about how your rules interact.

@Vineheart01

The wording for the Ballistic Skill bonus from combined firing isn't the same as Markerlights. Markerlights specify you get it when firing at that unit, the combined firing just says "when 3 or more units combine their firepower, the firing models add 1 to their Ballistic Skill". This would make the Stormsurge have +1 Ballsitic Skill when firing at multiple targets simultaneously!

Caederes wrote:

Vineheart01 wrote:

luke1705 just said it

Ah my bad lol! Eh, I wouldn't bother with either upgrade on a Ghostkeel anyway. Not enough Ignores Cover in the game (outside of Tau) to justify them, plus it just puts them up into Y'Vahra territory which is where it does not want to be.

luke1705 wrote:

Caederes wrote:
I asked this earlier but didn't get a response so I feel like it bears repeating.

When you perform the Combined Fire thing, if a Stormsurge adds its shooting to the attack, the wording of the rule suggests that it can choose to shoot just one of its guns at the target and then still fire its other guns at other targets per the GMC rules. I think it's the same story as with Target Locks. Would certainly make the Stormsurge an auto-take for Hunter Contingents!

It says the shooting unit must shoot at the same target as the other units. You could read that as "must shoot all guns at the same target" but I feel like it's satisfied by shooting a single gun, so you should be able to shoot at other things. Do you retain the +1 BS buff? I'm not sure. It says "When 3 or more units combine their firepower, the firing models add 1 to their ballistic skill". It sort of implies that it's the models firing AT that target if you ask me, but as per the english language, I think you still get the buff even when you target lock (or stormsurge GMC to a different target)

That was my interpretation as well. It's amazing how good the Stormsurge is with the full codex leak.

No arguments here, but how many will I field? Zero. How many Riptides will I field? Zero (ok maybe one). Somehow, it'll still be a cheesy army list


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Caederes wrote:
@Vineheart01

The wording for the Ballistic Skill bonus from combined firing isn't the same as Markerlights. Markerlights specify you get it when firing at that unit, the combined firing just says "when 3 or more units combine their firepower, the firing models add 1 to their Ballistic Skill". This would make the Stormsurge have +1 Ballsitic Skill when firing at multiple targets simultaneously!

But you see, I don't think that same logic would work for target locked models. THEY didn't fire at the unit. Their friends did.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Ghostkeel pays 50pts for a shield gen and 35pts for stims?

Ouuuuuuuccchhhh.....

That kinda kills what i wanted to do with them lol. Thats 205pts EACH if you want shield and stims on them. 210 with a nonflamer gun.

I think at that point Stim is just better if you had to pick one.

Oh god, Heavy Burst Cannon Riptides will be BS5, twin-linked, ignore cover, and possibly Tank Hunter with this. They will be not only viable, but dangerous.

We're getting to see how big a Tau "forward" base is from an included map. It's not even a main base and it could rival a hive city in size but not height.

There are implications that it was set up in a matter of weeks maybe a month or two at most or less given the time frame of events. It's sufficient to say Tau Industrial capacity is simply on a magnitude that the Imperium can't consider. If they want to have any hope of defeating us they had best start learning about their enemy before its too late. Or that enemy of tomorrow will be the enemy of today now.

The Imperium has dealt with enemies more dangerous and more powerful than the Tau. The chapter names of the Prefectia campaign seem to imply that the Tau have won the battle for Prefectia, but they have awoken the sleeping giant.

After all, taking some back water Planets like Agrellan is one thing, but a Fortress World? Now you have the Imperiums attention. Goodbye!

I mean, if a few companies of Raven guard, a company of white scars, and a contingent from House Terryn threaten the Taus plans, imagine what a real counter attack would do?

 Crazyterran wrote:
The Imperium has dealt with enemies more dangerous and more powerful than the Tau. The chapter names of the Prefectia campaign seem to imply that the Tau have won the battle for Prefectia, but they have awoken the sleeping giant.

After all, taking some back water Planets like Agrellan is one thing, but a Fortress World? Now you have the Imperiums attention. Goodbye!

I mean, if a few companies of Raven guard, a company of white scars, and a contingent from House Terryn threaten the Taus plans, imagine what a real counter attack would do?

Which is why Commander Farsight is getting a book at some point. Also we don't know how the FW book with Tau vs Admech will go down either.

 Crazyterran wrote:
The Imperium has dealt with enemies more dangerous and more powerful than the Tau. The chapter names of the Prefectia campaign seem to imply that the Tau have won the battle for Prefectia, but they have awoken the sleeping giant.

After all, taking some back water Planets like Agrellan is one thing, but a Fortress World? Now you have the Imperiums attention. Goodbye!

I mean, if a few companies of Raven guard, a company of white scars, and a contingent from House Terryn threaten the Taus plans, imagine what a real counter attack would do?

Maybe that's just what they want? The IoM seems to be a rather large force, and one that a lot of Xenos don't like, for good reason at that. So attracting the attention of the IoM could be a good way to basically create a greater evil that all the people within the Tau Empire have to fight against, and one that some of the smaller worlds would see as a good cause to join the Tau Empire in order to fight against.

In all reality, the IoM is too vast to really expand a lot of resources fighting against the Tau Empire, which isn't generally violent if beaten back. So I'm sure they're well aware that even if they lose and get pushed back, they can recover over time, but if they can beat back the IoM, at least in what seems like a threatening force, they gain a lot more from it. They simply can't lose in the greater scheme of things when you think about it.

The Tau were at... mmm try hard level... I dunno 4/10 on the oh gak scale of how hard of a fight for this world was. So I think the Imperium is in for some trouble. I would say this fight was easier for them to win than the first crusade sent to fight them which also failed I might add. That fight Tau were in like oh gak 9.5/10 try hard scale. Every time new Tau technology enters the fray the Imperium is turned back swiftly and more swiftly and with more devastating consequences as time goes by.

In the Kayon book it mentions there is a steady stream of new technologies always coming to the front lines.

Edit
I know I shouldn't copy and paste text, but just this one little snippet.



Edit
The rules for the Tidewall stuff is in Kauyon under Tau Empire. This lends credence to it possibly being Tau only.

Edit2
There are rules to field the individual pieces of the Tidewall. So you can take all the pieces as separate things if you so desire and move them around. Muahaaha!

 Gamgee wrote:
I know I shouldn't copy and paste text, but just this one little snippet.

Spoiler:

The news soon reached a chain of star systems coreward of the Gulf, long abandoned by the Tau Empire. There, a legendary leader gathered his people and made ready for a war that would change the history of the Tau forever

Sounds like Char is finally making his move.

I'm calling it now. He is going to get a campaign book and units and stuff totally unique to him.

Also its funny but I predicted an inevitable Tau civil war. Though not everyone I told bought my story. I hope this isn't so. This is exactly the kind of disunity the Imperium could capitalize on. I really hope he is going to strike out at the Imperium, but I got my doubts.

Or perhaps he learns to use warp travel? Man the Imperium would be in some serious trouble if he gains that capability.

Edit
A poster on ATT has pictures of the battle strategy and Shadowsun pulled a Hannibal and used the exact same deployment (of Tidewalls) to encircle and destroy the White Scars as the Battle of Cannae. Hahah. In honour of both our victory, Shadowsun's, and for the Hannibal reference.

Edit2
I have a theory. It mentions the Tau studied warp technology from a fleet they destroyed just as it warped in. They studied the effects and were going to send it to the top minds in the Empire for study but the crew of this vessel never returned anywhere and the Imperial forces didn't know about it and certainly didn't seem to stop it. I think we know what will change the course of this war. That ship was either working for Farsight or defecting to him with more definitive knowledge of the warp and he is going to use that to his advantage. Can you imagine a Tau Empire either one classic or the possible neo that has warp drive technology? I think the Imperium would quickly find the Tau expanding to every possible world and space.

Just checked out the previous orders on the US site. 83$ for a physical codex? The feth?

The plot thickens. A Grey Knight has foreseen that Farsight will defeat the crusade that is coming, but it might damn is soul to do it.

:(

 McNinja wrote:
Just checked out the previous orders on the US site. 83$ for a physical codex? The feth?

I think you're on the Australian site. The codex is $83 here.

Who is Char?

 McNinja wrote:
Just checked out the previous orders on the US site. 83$ for a physical codex? The feth?

You're on Australian prices.

The original in a long line of clones.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CharClone

My personal favorite being Zech's Marquis and of course Farsight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY1iSTdTyO4#t=7m45s

That's Zech's in the first episode, long before he gets his custom mech. He was good enough to beat the main hero in a bassic suit. When in a custom model he is all but unstoppable.

When you say Shadowsun "wrecks" a certain Raven Guard character......oh my.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gamgee wrote:
The plot thickens. A Grey Knight has foreseen that Farsight will defeat the crusade that is coming, but it might damn is soul to do it.

:(

Hmm...the "Crusade that is coming" implies the one the Imperium will launch, not the current Tau invasion. Sounds like he might fight Shadowsun's forces, they get attacked by the Imperium and then they join forces? Or maybe it will be like a Prince Yriel situation?

 Gamgee wrote:
The plot thickens. A Grey Knight has foreseen that Farsight will defeat the crusade that is coming, but it might damn is soul to do it.

:(

Where did you read this?

The book mentions that the Imperium has finally decided the Tau are a threat worth swatting, and are sending vast amounts of troops. Before, the only people really countering the Tau third sphere was a few companies of the Raven Guard, a few companies of the White Scars, elements of six other unnamed Chapters, local Imperial Guard Regiments, and House Terryn.

Now battle conclaves of the Sisters of Battle, Knight Houses, Titan Legions, entire Marine Chapters and tons of Guardsmen and members of the Adeptus Mechanicus are enroute to the Region, and it's not like they don't have all of that nearby - the Imperium has been building up the Eastern Fringe something fierce because of the Tyranids.

And the Tau think killing the Chapter Master of the Raven Guard dealt a death blow to the Imperial forces. All it did was make them angry. The Zeist Campaign was a single chapter strength worth of marines, and that would've pushed deep into Tau space if there hadn't been a hive fleet on the way.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the Tau are weak, or wouldn't put up a bloody fight, but with the forces the Imperial's are looking at throwing at the Tau, the Empire is at the least going to get pruned back severely territory wise.

And in all honesty, I haven't seen as much plot armour on the Tau and Shadowsun in particular in pretty much other parts of 40k. At this point, the only two people who are capable of killing her are Marneus Calgar or Draigo.

(and seriously, that's been two (there if you count Taros) campaign books where the Imperial's lose to the Tau, book three (four) better be the Imperial's turn.)

 Crazyterran wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
The plot thickens. A Grey Knight has foreseen that Farsight will defeat the crusade that is coming, but it might damn is soul to do it.

:(

Where did you read this?

The book mentions that the Imperium has finally decided the Tau are a threat worth swatting, and are sending vast amounts of troops. Before, the only people really countering the Tau third sphere was a few companies of the Raven Guard, a few companies of the White Scars, elements of six other unnamed Chapters, local Imperial Guard Regiments, and House Terryn.

Now battle conclaves of the Sisters of Battle, Knight Houses, Titan Legions, entire Marine Chapters and tons of Guardsmen and members of the Adeptus Mechanicus are enroute to the Region, and it's not like they don't have all of that nearby - the Imperium has been building up the Eastern Fringe something fierce because of the Tyranids.

And the Tau think killing the Chapter Master of the Raven Guard dealt a death blow to the Imperial forces. All it did was make them angry. The Zeist Campaign was a single chapter strength worth of marines, and that would've pushed deep into Tau space if there hadn't been a hive fleet on the way.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the Tau are weak, or wouldn't put up a bloody fight, but with the forces the Imperial's are looking at throwing at the Tau, the Empire is at the least going to get pruned back severely territory wise.

And in all honesty, I haven't seen as much plot armour on the Tau and Shadowsun in particular in pretty much other parts of 40k. At this point, the only two people who are capable of killing her are Marneus Calgar or Draigo.

(and seriously, that's been two (there if you count Taros) campaign books where the Imperial's lose to the Tau, book three (four) better be the Imperial's turn.)

Shadowsun's tactic has always been baiting a trap and cutting down the fools who fall into it. While I doubt the Tau are aware of the scale of the forces inbound, this feels like a trap. Also, if the Stormsurge is hitting production in high enough quantity, the Imperium may need to field proper Titans to remove them as Knight Titans are at serious risk against a well supported Stormsurge unit.

Ok I was trying to avoid posting open spoilers from Kauyon but you guys seem to have jumped the shark Does Shadowsun personally kill the Raven Guard Chapter Master? If so, how? Does she just blast him?

I get the sense that Shadowsun would be setting a trap given that she embodies the Kauyon method of warfare. However....how Farsight figures into the inevitable Mont'ka book will be interesting. I take that Grey Knight prophecy to imply Farsight will stop the Imperial Crusade before they obliterate the Tau.