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How good are the betrayal primarchs, I mean its cool we have got them and I've seen the rules but I think Horus is super OP. What does everyone else think about them? Has anyone played any games with them?

There primarchs, there supposed to be lol

Keep in mind though that the heresy books are stand alone and are not actually 40k books, they just use the same rules

Yeah I agree it would be awsome to see them wade through a whole battle line of enemy troops and that wh30k is stand alone but still... Anyway the others seemed fine. It just seems like to me with a terminator retinue Horus and that unit could pretty much single handily carry the game. And that doesn't sou d that fun to me...

BaconUprising wrote:
Yeah I agree it would be awsome to see them wade through a whole battle line of enemy troops and that wh30k is stand alone but still... Anyway the others seemed fine. It just seems like to me with a terminator retinue Horus and that unit could pretty much single handily carry the game. And that doesn't sou d that fun to me...

It's Horus?... The Warmaster?

BaconUprising wrote:
Yeah I agree it would be awsome to see them wade through a whole battle line of enemy troops and that wh30k is stand alone but still... Anyway the others seemed fine. It just seems like to me with a terminator retinue Horus and that unit could pretty much single handily carry the game. And that doesn't sou d that fun to me...

Not if you had Sanguinius leading a squad of Sanguinary Guard in Terminator armour facing off against him. The rules for Mortarion, Fulgrim, and Angron match up against Horus. I don't think he is that OP when confronted with a figure of near equal stats.

Remember the old saying, don't bring a knife to a gunfight. If they are coming at you with Horus you better have a loyalist primarch facing off against him,

BaconUprising wrote:
How good are the betrayal primarchs, I mean its cool we have got them and I've seen the rules but I think Horus is super OP. What does everyone else think about them? Has anyone played any games with them?

Keep in mind they are only intended to be used against other HH armies, not normal 40k armies.

The Primarchs are not OP. This is a case of paper commanders vs seeing them on the table. Are they beasts? Sweet Jeebus, yes. Unbeatable? Nope. Just like anything else in the game, have it make enough rolls and it falls.

They just need to fail more rolls.

On a side note, the crusade legion list works fine against normal 40k lists. In fact, minus the Primarchs they generally don't do well against them as they were designed to fight other PA lists not the Xenos lists.

hisdudeness wrote:They just need to fail more rolls.

Like Rogal Dorn?

 hisdudeness wrote:
The Primarchs are not OP. This is a case of paper commanders vs seeing them on the table. Are they beasts? Sweet Jeebus, yes. Unbeatable? Nope. Just like anything else in the game, have it make enough rolls and it falls.

They just need to fail more rolls.

On a side note, the crusade legion list works fine against normal 40k lists. In fact, minus the Primarchs they generally don't do well against them as they were designed to fight other PA lists not the Xenos lists.

Yes the other primarchs may not be OP but I really think Horus is


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valace2 wrote:

BaconUprising wrote:
Yeah I agree it would be awsome to see them wade through a whole battle line of enemy troops and that wh30k is stand alone but still... Anyway the others seemed fine. It just seems like to me with a terminator retinue Horus and that unit could pretty much single handily carry the game. And that doesn't sou d that fun to me...

Not if you had Sanguinius leading a squad of Sanguinary Guard in Terminator armour facing off against him. The rules for Mortarion, Fulgrim, and Angron match up against Horus. I don't think he is that OP when confronted with a figure of near equal stats.

Remember the old saying, don't bring a knife to a gunfight. If they are coming at you with Horus you better have a loyalist primarch facing off against him,

I would have to disagree. In the rules I think Horus could easily beat any of them, maybe not angron, In CC and his amazing rules mean in my eyes he is almost unstoppable

The Primarchs have their own slot, same as super heavies. They are not meant for games under 2500 points.

Primarchs.....ah how this game has changed....
So can I use my epic 40k mortarion model now?

 Deuce11 wrote:
The Primarchs have their own slot, same as super heavies. They are not meant for games under 2500 points.

Hadn't actually thought of this that would be a good idea putting them in apocalypse games only and such. I mean I love Horus but I thought he might ruin matches he was in.

 Nurgle wrote:
Primarchs.....ah how this game has changed....
So can I use my epic 40k mortarion model now?

Not really, this is Pre-Demon prince Mort, not new

Hadn't actually thought of this that would be a good idea putting them in apocalypse games only and such. I mean I love Horus but I thought he might ruin matches he was in.

Seeing as you can take Apoc type weapons in that same slot, the primarchs can be matched easily.

 Nurgle wrote:
Primarchs.....ah how this game has changed....
So can I use my epic 40k mortarion model now?

It's not a 40k thing. It's a Forge World book. Horus Heresy: Betrayal is the first book in a new series for playing 30k games.

In my opinion of the released rules the list of best to worst goes
Horus (I still maintain he's way better than the others)
Mortarion (Yes really! This guy is amazing. I thought they would nerf him but they didn't)
Angron (his rules were a bit disappointing in comparison)
Fulgrim (as to be expected)

 kronk wrote:

 Nurgle wrote:
Primarchs.....ah how this game has changed....
So can I use my epic 40k mortarion model now?

It's not a 40k thing. It's a Forge World book. Horus Heresy: Betrayal is the first book in a new series for playing 30k games.

With points and rules compatible in friendly 40k games.

Sidenote: takes roughly 432 lasgun shots on average to kill Horus.

 TheCaptain wrote:


Sidenote: takes roughly 432 lasgun shots on average to kill Horus.

So, about a platoon?

 TheCaptain wrote:
Sidenote: takes roughly 432 lasgun shots on average to kill Horus.

Or one vortex missile.

Wow that would be a waste!


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 Peregrine wrote:

 TheCaptain wrote:
Sidenote: takes roughly 432 lasgun shots on average to kill Horus.

Or one vortex missile.

Immune to instant death...

BaconUprising wrote:
Immune to instant death...

Vortex missiles do not care about immunity to instant death or any other excuse you can come up with for why you should not die. If you are under the 10" template you are removed from the table.

Are vortex missiles aloud in betrayal because if not we can assume they are not invented yet. Also just note that angron once survived thousands of tons of rubble collapsing on him and got up pretty much unhurt. Anyway can we get back on topic?

 Peregrine wrote:

BaconUprising wrote:
Immune to instant death...

Vortex missiles do not care about immunity to instant death or any other excuse you can come up with for why you should not die. If you are under the 10" template you are removed from the table.

Nor does Lukas the Trickster, or Crowe.

Would be quite interesting seeing one of them take down The Warmaster.

 TheCaptain wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

BaconUprising wrote:
Immune to instant death...

Vortex missiles do not care about immunity to instant death or any other excuse you can come up with for why you should not die. If you are under the 10" template you are removed from the table.

Nor does Lukas the Trickster, or Crowe.

Would be quite interesting seeing one of them take down The Warmaster.

That's why we have justaerin... Let them mush them up like pretzels then Horus can stroll in and claim the glory.

BaconUprising wrote:
Are vortex missiles aloud in betrayal because if not we can assume they are not invented yet.

Yes. Read the rules for the Reaver titan.

Also just note that angron once survived thousands of tons of rubble collapsing on him and got up pretty much unhurt.

That's nice. A vortex missile will still remove him.

Anyway can we get back on topic?

This is on topic, because it answers the question of how good primarchs are: decent, but not that impressive because in any game where a primarch is present the other player will kill it on the first turn with a vortex missile.

Interesting how exactly did you work that out when Horus won't be starting on the board? Him and the justaerin will then deep strike in a land within 3" of your reaver Titan, assault it and rip it apart with punitive ease. Say goodbye to your precious vortex missile...

Edit: spelling

BaconUprising wrote:
Interesting how exactly did you work that out when Horus won't be starting on the board? Him and the justaerin will then deep strike in a land within 3" of your reaver Titan, assault it and rip it apart with punitive ease. Say goodbye to your precious vortex missile...

So what you're saying is that you'll cheat and declare victory?

(You might want to read the rules about assaulting after arriving from reserve.)

The HH books are only designed to be used with each other. They are not meant to be used with regular 40k codices or the various 40k approved FW units.

I am well aware of the rules. When you are within 3" of the Titan you won't need to assault straight away. It won't be able to hit you with the weapon anyway at such close range so you wait a turn then bang!


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Also can we stop going on about this it's getting tiresome...

BaconUprising wrote:
I am well aware of the rules. When you are within 3" of the Titan you won't need to assault straight away. It won't be able to hit you with the weapon anyway at such close range so you wait a turn then bang!


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Also can we stop going on about this it's getting tiresome...

Well the Titan could just walk away. It does have a 12" move.

BaconUprising wrote:
Also can we stop going on about this it's getting tiresome...

You're the one who insisted on turning it into a tangent. I just pointed out that in any game where you can use a primarch the other player is going to have weapons capable of removing that primarch in a single shooting phase.