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Why hello there fine gents and ladies, thank you for coming, the punch is in the back.

Did you get a cup? remember to be courteous to the Watchers in the Dark, they work hard.

Now that we're all acquainted, let's get down to business.


I've been able to gather a relatively adequate force on my travels down the road of the Unforgiven, and I want to switch it up, allies being a no-brainer for the task. I find allies to be a great way to both patch up holes in your army, and also to add an extra dimension to your armies fluff, Being a relatively fluffy player myself (I like the game too, but the story is what sold this universe to me.) I don't really want to use xenos as allies to my dark angels, not to mention I have some spare Imperium bits.



Thus, I find myself at an impasse. I don't want to use my Eldar as allies, because as I've said Dark Angels Hate Xenos. so I ask you, oh kind dakka, what ally would benefit me the most and still stay relatively true to the fluff?

the big three I can think of are:

Space Wolves: A relatively obvious choice, given the friendly rivalry between the 1st and 6th legions, Space wolves add great scoring bodies (Grey Hunters) Some awesome fire support (Long Fangs) and very customizable HQ's, however, since they are allies of convenience, the rune priests anti-psychic ability would harm my psykers as well. Also, Space wolves do not add anti-air, unlike my other two options. All in all, they are very fluffy and painting blue-grey will be a nice break from black and gold.

Pros: adaptable troops, good fire support, psychic defense, and very fluffy

Cons: no anti-air, wolf guard are basically deathwing -1, psychic defense hurts my own psykers

Blood Angels: Another apparent choice, as the Dark and Blood Angels were once in the same codex. Blood angels, in addition to being the only battle brother on this list, add great air power in the form of the graceful Stormraven (Volatilis Landicus Raidicus), Great psychic abilities, fast moving and awesome infantry, strong assault capabilities, lots 'o melta, and fast tanks. However shooting usually takes precedence over assault in 6th and their aren't as many mech lists nowadays, not to mention being fast-moving doesn't matter so much in the face of Ravenwing and deep-striking Deathwing.

Pros: fast assault-oriented infantry,great mech and anti-mech, psychic power, battle brothers, and it's a classic.

Cons: assault oriented infantry, expensive flyer, anti-tank in an edition with less mech and more green/black/silver tides, and maneuverability already covered by my army.

Grey Knights: A less apparent choice, given the independent and secretive nature of the 1st Legion, However I always thought that Dark angels and Grey Knights were pretty similar, both medieval-themed (Dark angels are based on Arthurian Knights / Spanish Inquisition, and Grey Knights are more like Chivalric Knights), both withdrawn and untrusting, and both keeping terrible secrets. Not to mention I like non-wardian GK fluff enough that I wouldn't mind bending fluff a little (not to mention my DA successors are based near the Eye of Sauro-I mean Terror, and as such are close to the place most daemons are, it is also interesting because both my successor chapter and GK's specialize in fighting Chaos.)


Ignoring my rant, GK's provide a few things beneficial to my army, such as good psychic powers/defense, anti-Daemon (if I face a CSM/CD army, they are pretty much screwed.), a good flyer, And lots of high strength dakka. and really small model count (so less money spent). However they are an elite army allied to an elite army, Anti-transport/TMC is already covered in my army via lots of mortis dreads. and finally that grey knights just simply have a bad rep.

Pros: Lots of Dakka, Really strong units, good psychic powers, small model count, very effective against one of the most played armies out there, and to my knowledge hasn't been done a million times before.

Cons: Small model count in an elite army, anti-TMC covered by primary detachment, anti-psychic powers (SW and Eldar) turn them into basically very expensive marines, and accusations of TFG and Power-gamer.




I want to thank you all for reading thus far and would like your input, although if you just wanted to hear me drone on about things and drink punch that's fine too. Thanks!

Ive contemplated doing an Angels of Death army with Blood Angel Allies. I think a cheap chaplain and assault squad with melta or flamers in a stormraven with a dread would make a pretty cool allied contengent.

SW Psychic defense doesn't hurt you.

You can choose to nullify each power cast in 24". Just don't choose to do it to yourself.

 TheCaptain wrote:
SW Psychic defense doesn't hurt you.

You can choose to nullify each power cast in 24". Just don't choose to do it to yourself.

Really? I guess I just assumed it was like Runes of Warding, which affects all non-friendly psychic powers. That's pretty darn awesome

Well there is that story with the DA and Ragnar's SW company working together for a bit? JotWW anyone?

I think your forgetting another very obvious option for ally.

Imperial guard.

Pros: Also Battle Brothers, strong fliers, and cheap troops

Cons: Squishy, expensive model wise for just an ally force.

Imperial Guard would do really well with the DA. They have everything you lack. Strong flyers, big blobs to go well with your psykers, they got it all

Thank you for all the replies gents

Now I knew someone would say IG as allies, as I know they work well with DA, however as a response:

I am eventually going to start an IG force, probably either DKOK or Elysians, i'm not interested in building my IG from the plastic kits outside of tanks, etc. I want these guys to be my first all-forgeworld army.

That said, I'm pretty broke. In a perfect world, I would jump all over IG, and drown my enemies in resin bodies. but I just can't keep up with the cost. It's one of the big reasons GK is on the list, is because they cost so little to make a combat-effective force. Marines in general are cheaper than the xenos factions, let alone IG. I'd need a massive investment from the get go for plastic cadians I don't really want, sure vendetta squadrons are great, but when I need USD $91.00 for a single Vendetta, it loses some appeal.

In contrast I can make a pretty good SW list for under 200 and be ready to go.

I hope that clears things up my good men, and if I was overly harsh I apologize.

I'm a big fan of the IG allies with DA because the idea of a big IG foot blob with a 4++ save thanks to Azrael sounds both terrifying and hilarious. It will also help offset the fact that both wings are low model count armies.

Just a small correction if I may
The rivalry between Space Wolves and Dark Angels is absolutely not "friendly"
They at least mistrust each other when they don't outright hate the other's guts
Both Space Wolves and Dark Angels are stubborn in their own ways and don't forget nor forgive

This really ain't a fluffy choice if you ask me

Guard definitely looks like the best fluff/efficiency wise ally for DAs, especially if you take FW stuff into accounts with all the various Skyfire / Barrage options available to the Guard

Salamanders? I hear Vulkan He'stan is good, they're also the only chapter the Dark Angels trust on the Horus Heresy allies matrix. (They're also green!!!!)

TanKoL wrote:The rivalry between Space Wolves and Dark Angels is absolutely not "friendly"

I'd say they at least respect each others honour / prowess, seeing as how they view each other as equals, as they duel every time they meet.

secondly, there are quite a few instances where the Lion and Russ shared moments of friendship. Now I'll admit many the modern DA's view towards Space Wolves is a tad less friendly, but I think there's potential there for a story, seeing as how the two legions have had so many encounters in the past.

Finally, my chapter is a DA successor, so if I wanted to I could bend the fluff a little to have them as allies, seeing as how my chapter focuses more on honour and martial pride(They provide a way to clear the path so that other Unforgiven may get to the fallen, also they are usually signed onto bigger crusades to boost the DA's rep.) the SW shouldn't have that much of a problem with them.

Zande4 wrote:Salamanders? I hear Vulkan He'stan is good, they're also the only chapter the Dark Angels trust on the Horus Heresy allies matrix. (They're also green!!!!)

Interesting, not to mention all those flamers and melta's, I'd reference the Trammps all the time.

I smile when I think of a cultist whispering softly "Pretty fire" before perishing to burning promethium.

50 guardsmen + 5 autocannons + libby = Fearless, rerolls to hit add an aegis for fun

I vote for GK, you can get a highly customizable HQ out of it or just a dirt cheap Inquisitor to fill that Ally HQ slot, one or two Strike Squads that can use Warp Quake to protect objectives from Deep Strikers and, especially with the new FAQ, a Vindicare Assassin who will just eat enemy models alive.

 Zachariel wrote:

TanKoL wrote:The rivalry between Space Wolves and Dark Angels is absolutely not "friendly"

I'd say they at least respect each others honour / prowess, seeing as how they view each other as equals, as they duel every time they meet.
...my chapter is a DA successor...
...the SW shouldn't have that much of a problem with them.

I have to agree with Tankol, Dark Angels and SW don't like each other at all, and I would rather have seen them desperate allies instead of convenient allies.
They are replaying the duel between Russ and the Lion, where both sides believed the other side to be treacherous (it was actually Russ that was the dill weed - he sucker-punched the Lion, it says this in both DA and SW fluff).

You do know that every successor is actually still run by the main DA leadership, right? (I know, it's your homebrew successor, they're different snowflakes, yada-yada) In the official fluff that is how it works - they didn't truly seperate as Rowboat Girlyman wanted them to.

Grey Knights are not the best choice either, as if they discovered that the hoem base of the Dark Angels is riddled with warp taint, and their home planet was a big ball of warp taint surrounded by dirt, they would try to exterminate the Lion's sons. I would imagine that the DA would avoid them like the plague.

Blood Angels are both fluffy and good allies, as they could toss in a sturdy flyer and woudl not have to avoid your other units.

P.S. This post was not intended in any way to offend(well, maybe a little towards the sons of Russ -ha!), but after rereading it, I can see where someone would get that idea.

...I have to agree with Tankol,
...Dark Angels and SW don't like each other at all
....You do know that every successor is actually still run by the main DA leadership, right?

No offence taken, my good sir

I feel allies of convenience is a good spot for them, they aren't all buddy buddy like say, UM and IF, but I view them as both fighting to get the most honour in whatever battle their in, imagine the scene in LOTR where Gimli and Legolas have a kill count competition. Of course this could just be me seeing the fluff from a biased standpoint, as one of my friends plays SW, but I'd like to think the SW could work alongside DA.

I realize that the inner circle, led by Azrael, leads all of the DA successors and tells them what to do. Hopefully,I can manage to make my chapter a tad different from their primogenitor without losing that bond. I kind of wanted my chapter to be somewhat tragic (well, this is 40k, grimdark and all that) in that had they been apart of the great crusade, they probably would have gotten recognition. As it stands though, they're being manipulated and sacrificed by the DA and just want to regain their lost honour. (both from Caliban, and from failing a crusade that had them lose a good 30%of the chapter, Iron warriors fortress planets are not a good vacation spot.) I hope I can manage to not make them too special or mary sue.

as for grey knights, what if the Dark angels are saddling an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor and/or grey knight strike force with my chapter to avoid suspicion themselves, considering (I believe) only the Chapter Master knows of the full story (well, as much as a master of the DA knows.) in the successors, it'd be pretty hard for the GK to find it out. My chapter is basically just trying to prove their innocence and regain honour.(they're on a penance crusade, maybe the inquisitor/GK are there to make sure they aren't doing things they shouldn't?)


Thanks for all the replies guys, I enjoy your input, keep it coming

Competitively speaking, I think your best bet might be Wolves as a primary detachment with DA allies.

Into 1500 points you could squeeze...

HQ

Rune Priest w/ Chooser [living lightning and jaws?]

Troops

10 GH w/ 2 Plasma Guns, Banner
10 GH w/ 2 Plasma Guns, Banner

Heavy

5 Long Fangs, 4 MLs
5 Long Fangs, 4 MLs
5 Long Fangs, 4 MLs

(all that junk is under 800 pts...)

DA:

HQ

Belial

Troops

Terminator squad w/ Assault Cannon, Medic, etc.
Assault Terminator squad

Heavy

Devastators w/ Flakk Missiles


This gives you something like 16 MLs on 20 Power Armored bodies, Psychic Defense, 11 hearty Terminators, and 20 scoring bodies. At 1,500 points that's a major pain in the balls.

Personally, I'm playing my Dark Angels occasionally with Space Marines, either with Vulkan (cause who doesn't love twin-linked meltas and flamers) or with Pedro Kantor. Scoring Sternguard are pretty cool, and a nice support for Deathwing or Ravenwing (at least in higher point games).

Storm Talons can give you some cheaper anti-flyer tools than DA have.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
Competitively speaking, I think your best bet might be Wolves as a primary detachment with DA allies.

Into 1500 points you could squeeze...

HQ

Rune Priest w/ Chooser [living lightning and jaws?]

Troops

10 GH w/ 2 Plasma Guns, Banner
10 GH w/ 2 Plasma Guns, Banner

Heavy

5 Long Fangs, 4 MLs
5 Long Fangs, 4 MLs
5 Long Fangs, 4 MLs

(all that junk is under 800 pts...)

DA:

HQ

Belial

Troops

Terminator squad w/ Assault Cannon, Medic, etc.
Assault Terminator squad

Heavy

Devastators w/ Flakk Missiles


This gives you something like 16 MLs on 20 Power Armored bodies, Psychic Defense, 11 hearty Terminators, and 20 scoring bodies. At 1,500 points that's a major pain in the balls.

Only primary detachments with Belial will make Deathwing Troops.

 Sasori wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
Competitively speaking, I think your best bet might be Wolves as a primary detachment with DA allies.

Into 1500 points you could squeeze...

HQ

Rune Priest w/ Chooser [living lightning and jaws?]

Troops

10 GH w/ 2 Plasma Guns, Banner
10 GH w/ 2 Plasma Guns, Banner

Heavy

5 Long Fangs, 4 MLs
5 Long Fangs, 4 MLs
5 Long Fangs, 4 MLs

(all that junk is under 800 pts...)

DA:

HQ

Belial

Troops

Terminator squad w/ Assault Cannon, Medic, etc.
Assault Terminator squad

Heavy

Devastators w/ Flakk Missiles


This gives you something like 16 MLs on 20 Power Armored bodies, Psychic Defense, 11 hearty Terminators, and 20 scoring bodies. At 1,500 points that's a major pain in the balls.

Only primary detachments with Belial will make Deathwing Troops.

Not only that, but there's no way to make the Command Squad Troops, period.

Umm yes yes yes very true command squads can't score, but tell me the rule that's says allied Belial doesn't make allied death wing troops? I believe the wording is that any army that includes Belial allows deathwing to be fielded as troops..

I like Grey Knights as allies. Do you honestly believe that the Inquisition doesn't already know about the Fallen? They don't bother the Angels because the Angels are doing their job for them.


Imagine a combined Mordrak/Belial drop

valace2 wrote:
Umm yes yes yes very true command squads can't score, but tell me the rule that's says allied Belial doesn't make allied death wing troops? I believe the wording is that any army that includes Belial allows deathwing to be fielded as troops..

I like Grey Knights as allies. Do you honestly believe that the Inquisition doesn't already know about the Fallen? They don't bother the Angels because the Angels are doing their job for them.


Imagine a combined Mordrak/Belial drop

The wording is "Primary Detachment" like I said in my above post. Thus, no scoring deathwing allies.

Hey guys, sorry for not responding for a few days, I was recovering from surgery and was too hopped up on anesthetic to form a coherent response.

Sasori and Platuan are indeed correct, it says "In a primary detachment that contains Belial, Deathwing Terminator Squads are troop choices instead of elites choices.", Plus, I'd prefer to keep my DA the primary detachment.

As it stands I think it's down to GK and SW for me, I like blood angels, but I just can't justify why they'd be near my chapter and/or ally with them, since I don't believe they had much interaction other than both being in Codex:Angels of Death.

As for GK, I feel that having the GK there to corral my chapter and make sure they are pure would add something to the story, two absolute allies with no conflict is somewhat boring, but having someone there who might kill you if you don't act completely loyal at every moment adds a little tension, no? also, it's the least done out of the three as DA allies, and would add some originality to my army.


For Space Wolves, the conflict is still there, amplified by the fact that their feuds run thousands of years deep. Also, I think the DA and SW together are a terrible foe to face (fluff and rules-wise) where Space wolves have wild abandon, the DA are pensive, where the Space wolves are quick to anger but also quick to forgive, the DA don't anger easily, but watch out when you do.

I've been thinking about some sample lists, but sadly I have no access to either codex at the moment, I can only guesstimate what I can take for each spot from a few matches against each one (2 against GK, 1 against SW.) These are both for higher point games, I plan to work my way up slowly with time. without further ado, here they are:

Grey Knights
HQ
Grand Master, Daemon Hammer, Incinerator
Maybe Mordrak, as I love his fluff. If so, replace paladins with ghost knights.

Elites
X4 Paladins/termies, 2 halberds, 2 swords.
Alternatively, get rid of the pallies and add another strike squad.

Troops
Strike Squad
x10, Hammer, x2Psycannon

Fast Attack
Stormraven
Multi-Melta, Plasma Cannon

Heavy Support
Purgation Squad, Hammer, not sure for other weapons, probably in a rhino or razorback.
alternatively, a psyfleman dreadnought, I just want to avoid dreadknights at all costs.

Space Wolves
HQ
Rune Priest
Chooser of the Slain, not sure about the other upgrades.
Wolf Lord
TDA, probably a runic weapon, and a SS.

Elites
Wolf Guard
I can't remember if WG can take only x4, if so, TDA , combi-melta's and some power claws/weapons. perhaps I might add Arjack.
If not, than I'll probably either leave this spot open, or take a Lone Wolf with TDA, and SS/CF.

Troops
Grey Hunters
X10, Melta, Melta.
Grey Hunters
x10, Melta, Plasma.

Fast Attack
probably nothing, maybe a Fenrisian wolf pack.

Heavy Support
Long Fangs
Missile Launchers, Max unit size.


For Grey knights the GM would probably go into the stormraven and hopefully come in with my DW assault to put even more pressure on the enemy. If I take Mordrak his first into the fray along with Belial will make my opponents sweat.
Most everything else would footslog to allow for more deepstriking termies.

For SW I might take a drop pod on either the WG and Lord, or the Melta GH's to do some tank-busting turn one. everything else footslogs, and Long fangs hit hordes/MC's from a distance.


I apologize if I made any mistakes here, and have a nice day!