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Hello all! I'm thinking of starting a Chaos Daemons army. I don't have a codex yet, just ordered one the other day so I don't really know their stat lines or rules. From the fluff and such I like Slaanesh and Nurgle and was thinking of making those two forces the majority with a bit of Khorne and Tzeentch thrown in, probably as the more elite units. Since I don't know their rules or stats I would like to know if this would be a good way to go or should I do a more even spread? I was thinking of getting a box of plaguebearers just to start with and go from there.

Obviously, as with all other armies, you can never go wrong with the basic troop choices.
Depending on how big you expect to build your army, I'd get a box or two of Plague Bearers and Pink Horrors. Great kits, both, and fun/easy to build and paint.

Bad news: Daemons are rumoured to be getting a new codex in March. It's bad in that you just bought a codex that may soon turn out to be outdated (probably the biggest problem with GW's "marketing" strategy), though hopefully they'll be willing to exchange a recently-bought codex for a new one. Keep your receipt.

It's also bad because we honesty can't say what the new book will be like.

 Cheexsta wrote:
Bad news: Daemons are rumoured to be getting a new codex in March. It's bad in that you just bought a codex that may soon turn out to be outdated (probably the biggest problem with GW's "marketing" strategy), though hopefully they'll be willing to exchange a recently-bought codex for a new one. Keep your receipt.

It's also bad because we honesty can't say what the new book will be like.

Yup.

I see. Okay. Well I guess I'll just start with the Plaguebearers and just wait. I can't imagine upgrades would change a whole lot with a new codex, right? Not sure. This is the only codex/rules i've been part of having just started in August so I don't know how new codex's change things

well seeing as we dont know for sure if the new codex will be out then, for now I would just grab yourself 2 troops and an HQ (so either a herlad or a GD depending on how big you want your army to be) so no matter what you can jump into the army when/if the new codex hits us.

a quick run down of the troops would be (and will always be )

plague bearers: slow but can take a hell of a lot of fire and dish out pain in CC (bring epidimious to make them even more scary)

bloodletters: very, VERY choppy but are kind of a glass cannon as they only have a 5++ and marine toughness

daemonettes: pretty quick and pretty choppy, this unit is more of a tank/termy hunter due to their rending though the change to fleet has ganked them a little so they're not as good as they were in terms of speed. they will die pretty quickly to mass small arms fire

horrors: shoot a lot of fire and the unit champ can have a melta, as they have a 4++ they are hard to shift but they can't last very long in combat

Flamers would be something to look into(IIRC they are elites), the last tournament(small local) we went to my friend brought his chaos daemons and I heard a lot of people who were amazed at the punch these guys can dish out. Flamers are a jump infantry squad that each fires a flame thrower template that wounds anything on a 4+ and ignores armor(as well as cover via being a template weapon), they also have another shooting attack but I don't remember that one off hand. The downside to them is they got updated in a white dwarf so their updated rules can be hard to find.

 TheAvengingKnee wrote:
Flamers would be something to look into(IIRC they are elites), the last tournament(small local) we went to my friend brought his chaos daemons and I heard a lot of people who were amazed at the punch these guys can dish out. Flamers are a jump infantry squad that each fires a flame thrower template that wounds anything on a 4+ and ignores armor(as well as cover via being a template weapon), they also have another shooting attack but I don't remember that one off hand. The downside to them is they got updated in a white dwarf so their updated rules can be hard to find.

Rumors are that Flamers and Screamers will get a slight nerf in the new book, but really, they are OP right now, so, it's probably a good thing.

even with a slight nerf they would still be a really good unit, I have lost so many squads to a lucky deep strike that lands that unit close to one of mine and the flamers just obliterate them.

 matphat wrote:

 TheAvengingKnee wrote:
Flamers would be something to look into(IIRC they are elites), the last tournament(small local) we went to my friend brought his chaos daemons and I heard a lot of people who were amazed at the punch these guys can dish out. Flamers are a jump infantry squad that each fires a flame thrower template that wounds anything on a 4+ and ignores armor(as well as cover via being a template weapon), they also have another shooting attack but I don't remember that one off hand. The downside to them is they got updated in a white dwarf so their updated rules can be hard to find.

Rumors are that Flamers and Screamers will get a slight nerf in the new book, but really, they are OP right now, so, it's probably a good thing.

Just play them without the Eternal Warrior rule and they're actually pretty fairly costed. (and odds are that Daemons will trade their current 'Daemon' rule for the basic rulebook version and thus lose their army-wide EW bonus)


As for the various Troops;
a) Bloodletters
Nasty, angry SOB's who scare the pants off of every single Space Marine in existance! They have above average WS, (ie: they can hit marines on 3's), and their Hellblades simply carve through power armour like a hot knife through butter!
The downside being you only have T4/5++ to protect them, while also being forced to Deep Strike them into play and thus wait a full turn before you can get stuck-in with your intended target.

They're best used in BIG! squads - I'm talking like 12-16 or so per unit 'big'. This gives you enough bodies to (hopefully) weather that initial turn of enemy firepower while still having enough survivors to lay waste to most opponents.
Don't expect to ever hold ground with these guys - that's not their job! Use them to tear MEQ's, (ie: 3+ save models) into bloody rags of steaming hamberger!

b) Daemonettes
These are the other pure melee Troops option. However, where Bloodletters rape marines, these lovely he/she/it? are geared toward dismembering and slicing apart large unarmoured hordes like Ork Boys or IG Platoons, or else taking out smaller units of really heavily armoured stuff like Terminators with their boatloads of Rending attacks.
Again, just like their angry daemon-brothers the Bloodletters, Daemonettes need to be taken in BIG! squads to be effective. While they're (arguably) faster than 'Letters thanks to Fleet, they're not as tough so they'll drop like flies to even basic small arms fire.

c) Plaguebearers
These are you objective holders. T5/5++ AND 'Feel no Pain' make these guys among the most resilient basic units in the game. They also are a perfect hard-counter to high toughness gribblies like Wraithlords or Tyranid monstrous critters thanks to their Poisoned attacks attribute giving them a set to-wound roll. (and the unit's Plagueridden can take a better version of this too!)
Now, that being said, Plaugebearers are pretty tame fighters due to having a rock-bottom awful initiative meaning they'll almost always strike last in combat, plus they only have a single attack each. Their job is most certainly not 'to kick *** & take names', but rather to hold onto key positions of the battlefield like objectives. They also can take on any high toughness opponent that would otherwise likely prove too big a problem for your main hitters like Bloodcrushers or Screamers or your own MC's.
Their biggest downfall is their speed, or rather, complete lack of it! Being Slow & Purposeful is pretty terrible for a scoring unit, especially one that has 0 transport options! An unlucky scatter on your Deep Strike can be the death of your Plaugebearers as they will take longer to make-up the lost gorund.

d) Pink Horrors
My personal favourites! These are your shooters. Each little gribbly comes equiped with a basic S4 "gun" (or rather, magical flames they throw about!), that gets 3 shots a turn and burns through anything short of power armour! Model for model, no other Troop unit in the game can keep up with the amount of dakka your Pinkies will get.
Use them in units of 9+ and send them off infantry hunting. While you can give the unit's Iridescent Horror the Bolt of Tzeentch upgrade, you should avoid the urge to tank-hunt with these guys since they only have BS3 and you'll end up wasting a tone of firepower that should be put to better use elsewhere! In units of 15-18 or so, very little survives the fistfulls of dice you'll put out each shooting phase, while the unit itself becomes a real tarpit as only the most powerful of deathstar builds can carve through the higher 4++ invulns in a reasonable amount of turns.
Try to avoid combat though, you want the guys hanging back a bit and keeping up the torrent of firepower you've paid for! Only commit the unit to tarpit duty when things get desperate and you've litterly got no other options!

Oh, and always, always, ALWAYS! take the Changeling! He's filthy cheap, and he's halarious good fun when his "go-go-gaget!" routine works!

If the changelings(he also has an amazing looking model) ability in the horrors squad goes off it would be awesome, I know my friend has yet to have it work though and he has played a bunch of games :(

Thanks guy for all the advice. I didn't realize Pink Horrors were shooty, they'd be plenty useful. I know I definitely want the Plaguebearers because they can take a beating but now I'm kinda leaning more towards Bloodletters instead of Deamonettes for the choppy side.

There are two bad things i have to tell you:
1 - Daemons are getting a new codex next month, so we don't know what units are good/bad, or what to buy
2 - Unlike previously stated, daemon troop choices are among the worst in the game. Every other section in the codex is good, but the troop choice is terrible. Here is the problem, we lack horde/good saves, and everything is really expensive. Let me run down the list as i have known them for playing daemons in the past years

Plaguebearers - These will be the best scoring units in the codex. T5 with 5++ and FnP is ridiculous. Any poisoned weapons, lots of high strength shooting will drop these guys like flies. At 15 points a pop and ws3 and one attack these guys will lose any points equivalent combat they get into period... even with normal marines and other normal troops. They cannot run the turn they drop, which takes away their mobility, and makes them more vulnerable to templates and blasts. It can really screw them over if they get a bad scatter. If they could get a decent cover save and FnP it would be different, but with fearless, it takes away any bonus from area terrain and makes ruins hardly worth it.

Bloodletters - As mentioned already, any daemon assault units that cost this much are pretty much a glass hammer. Daemonettes suffer from it as well. But once again, any unit that is not MeQ will laugh at these guys. With only a 5+ save, t4 and 16 points a model, it's basically asking for the opponent to shoot these guys out before they can touch them. They are good at killing MeQ, not great, because any marines will be able to swing back at the same initiative. If you stick the MeQ in cover or terrain, they can handle these guys pretty easily, as they will be going at I1. Any other type of unit they will be charging will basically not care too much for their abilities. Hordes and 2+ armour save people will just laugh at their power swords like they were bootknives. Again, with a 5+ save, it's not too hard to wipe these guys out, as they cost a lot and are great at killing MeQ, but not anything else. Once again these guys are really over costed for only getting a 5+ save. They might be good at assault, but are certainly not good for taking objectives, as they are basically guard with +1 toughness and cost a metric boatload more when it comes to defensiveness.

Daemonettes - Fast, which is a plus. High initiative, which is also a plus, but they are glass hammer as well. Having to sit out in the open for a turn with T3 and a 5+ just kills them before they can get into assault. A marine with a bolter does absolute wonders against these troops. Sure they are decent at killing hordes and maybe terminators, but they will take massive casualties trying to make it into assault. Any horde/terminator squad will have sufficient shooting to really nerf them before they can even strike... And once again, not good at holding objectives, as they are t3 with a 5+ and cannot benefit from any cover bar a ruin cover save, which isn't that amazing. Guard equivalent when it comes to defense and way more expensive...

Pink Horrors - Somewhere near my least favorite troop choice. Sure they can put out a decent amount of dakka, it still doesn't do much against anything with a good armour/cover save. Plus they are BS3 which means they really aren't good for the "shooting" choice of the troop section. Yes you can take a melta gun that doesn't have the melta USR and is the same price as a melta, but it's at BS3, so you are only getting a 1/3 chance of wounding with this every time you fire it. And sure the changeling is only 5 points, but there's really not game situation that you will find it useful. It's like taking melta-bombs on a squad of long fangs. Sure it's only 5 points and will work wonders when you put it to use, but you have to realize that you will really not receive any noticeable benefit from it. These guys do have a better save than most, but they are only t3 with a 4++. Any squad that shoots them will surely do some real damage. Don't even mention anything charging these guys. If they get charged, they are as easy to step on as a leaf. And their price tag is ridiculous... Completely ridiculous.

Nurglings - These guys are troops, but can never be scoring. They deep strike, so that adds to their mobility, but they really don't do anything. At all. I will hand it to them, they are probably one of the best tarpits in the game, if not the best, but other than that you really shouldn't pay any attention to them.



All in all, the daemonic troop section is just a mess. The troop section is the only section that is scoring in most game scenarios. That's their main job... But none of these guys really do it that well. That really hurts daemons. Sure plaguebearers are good at it, they still die to small arms fire nonetheless... Then they are not mobile, can be easily tied down for the whole game, and cost more than a MeQ, who gets a good save from armour all the time, and can benefit form cover. Plus they can decently hold their own in combat. Every other troop choice is decent at best, but terrible at holding objectives, which is what the troop section is made to do. If you want to run a fluffy list that's fine, invest in the troop section, but if you want to be competitive, take plaguebearers and look elsewhere to find useful units (I'm looking at you, elites section).


Sorry if i seem to be trying to turn you away from daemons. They are a really fun army to play, but they have their pitfalls like every other army. Ours just happens to be our troop section. But i would say wait a month before investing in any daemons until the codex comes out. I hope they balance it a little more than it is now.


Good luck reaping souls with your Daemons!!

Have to completely disagree about Horrors being pants...
As a mainly Tzeentch Daemon player, I find Horrors invaluable as Troops. Yes they're still overcosted by likely 2-3pts/model, but they do work wonders when you take proper-sized squads of 'em.

I normally include 2 units of 9 w/Bolt and a massive unit of 18 w/Changeling + Bolt + Icon. (sacred numbers and all that!)

Those 9 strong units are just small enough that opponents don't really like to dedicate alot of shooting to picking them off, especially when they're things like Flamers & Screamers running amock.
But, that unit still puts out either 27 S4/ap4 shots, or else 24 S4/ap4 shots + 1 S8/ap1 shot. That will dent even marines... On average, that unit is looking at killing at least a couple marines, whereas anything not wearing power armour simply explodes.
Sure, it's not "ZOMG! Epic!!!", but it's annoying and it's the kind of unit you can leave hanging back a bit while shoving other threats down your opponent's throat!

Now that large unit. Yes, it's expensive, but even a full 10-man marine unit doesn't like the idea of eating 54 shots/turn! Plus, with a 4++ save it takes some serious effort to try and kill-off in just a single turn or two.
I've had this unit cripple everything from Ork hordes to Terminators and even glance av10 flyers to death in a single round of shooting. The only things that don't much care about being shot by these guys are the likes of large Plague Marine units, multi-wound units like Nob Bikers/Meganobz or other Deathstar type units.

As for the Changeling. Sure, his ability is dependant on the enemy failing a Ld test. But, it's more the fear of potentially failing that test that can be his true value. Especially if your opponent has gotten unlucky early on, the Glamor of Tzeentch ability can really make opponents think twice about risking a Ld test, especially if the unit in question has nasty weapons and only Ld8 or worse!
And yet for some strange reason, I find that tanks will fail this test more often than infantry will... Strange? Yes! But there's nothing that beats seeing for example Knight Commander Pask's Leman Russ Punisher open fire on that large blob Platoon, or a Heldrake make an about face and burn-up a unit of Chaos Marines sitting on an objective!


And at the end of the day, no matter what happens just remember; everything simply went exactly according to "The Plan" when using Tzeentch units!

As others have said: new codex imminent.

However, if you really really need to do something between now and March, then pick up screamers, pink horrors or plaguebearers. You are going to need troops and shooty ones are always good. 6th ed has pretty much established that shooting things is much better than clubbing them.

Close Combat daemons are tricky to use with the current codex and I wouldn't expect that to get any better. Actually about the only way I'd field blood letters is if by some miracle the new codex changes their weapons to be AP2 and/or gives them the ability to assault after deep strike. As it stands the changes to the power weapon rules essentially made them an easy target that isn't very survivable. (yes, I have 20 of these guys currently on a shelf).

Also, I'd stay away from any HQ choices. It's always hard to say if they are going to update them or how their abilities will change.

 Cheexsta wrote:
Bad news: Daemons are rumoured to be getting a new codex in March. It's bad in that you just bought a codex that may soon turn out to be outdated (probably the biggest problem with GW's "marketing" strategy), though hopefully they'll be willing to exchange a recently-bought codex for a new one. Keep your receipt.

It's also bad because we honesty can't say what the new book will be like.

Seriously?!?!?!

Thanks everyone thisisnotpancho I had the feeling that their units aren't very durable. I do have hope for Plauguebearers, though. Sadly, I just don't have the codex yet to see what kind of unit pricing and stats everyone has. Luckily someone was nice enough to e-mail me the WD update I already have a DE army going so I'm not scared of fragile armies. Just need to adapt. There's a guy at my FLGS who's dominating with a Tzeentch army at the moment. Apparently he's damn near unbeatable. Thanks everyone for tips

Pretty much because the new book is rumoured to not be far off, just buy some deamonettes and plaguebearers if you like them.
I cant see the troops being changed too much so its a pretty safe option to buy for now.

Troops also wont get new models as they are all new plastic kits.

That way when the book does come out youl have some troops ready to go and you can just fill out the army with a hq and some elites/fast/heavy.


20 plguebearers and deamonettes would be a good start for the army.
I prefer pink horrors for troops but it wont hurt to buy stuff you like the look of.