Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey guys. I have a game coming up this weekend. I hate to meta game but this guy is playing the cheesy (stink kind) DA w/30 man blob of IG with the 4+ invulnerable list. Forgive me I dunno know the name of the stuff I just know that's what it is.

How am I to go about beating this with Blood Angels? Models are not an issue, except I only have one Storm Raven.

The emperor protects.

If you don't want to just ignore the blob, then you could always take two fast Vindicators or even Whirlwinds (/shudder) and swamp them with pie plates. If you wanted to go the ally route, you could always bring a SM Null Zone Libby and a TFC to really blow it away.

But honestly the best thing to do is focus on everything BUT the blob and play the mission.

Whats the guy's name that gives them the inv save?

Azrael

It's Azrael, you're looking at a 2+/4++ with FNP(6+) T4 W3. I don't know the BA codex enough to tell you what to take, but try to stay out of CC with him Azrael can drop squads by himself (I've done this on multiple occasions)

I'm definitely not wasting my points on whirlwinds. Avoid this squad seems like the best advice so far.

Could I just run someone in and challenge him?

If you could challenge Azrael, one dude with a Power Fist and a 2+ save should take him down.

Just gotta put one wound through a 4+ invulnerable.

Whirlwinds are not a waste. They are an oasis of cheapness in a codex of bloated costs.

I think a bunch of IG with a 4+ invul is perhaps the least of your worries with the DA. If you assault the IG with ASM, you can just torrent them to death. Just pretend it's a blob of fire warriors. 4+ invul means nothing to attacks with no AP.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well, nothing more than a regular suit of carapace armor.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Curiously, I am adding a C:SM libby, tactical squad, riflemen dread and thunderfire cannon in my all comers list.

what powers with the c:sm libby, prescience and what?

Martel732 wrote:
Whirlwinds are not a waste. They are an oasis of cheapness in a codex of bloated costs.

Whirlwinds are, in fact, way powerful. I don't know where y'all heard they weren't good, but you heard wrong.

You could also try A Furioso with frag cannon in a drop pod. It's double the points of a Whirlwind, but it has it's advantages.

Also, don't bother issuing a challenge: If Azreal is in a 30 man blob squad, there will be 3 sgts to jump in front of your challenger before you get to the boss.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 g0atsticks wrote:
what powers with the c:sm libby, prescience and what?

They don't get Prescience. You DO get Null Zone and The Gate, though.

Null zone and avenger. They can't take divination. BA, can, though. I'll be using a dual libby list in that scenario. Seriously, Azrael sounds like a bigger pain than the actual unit. I hate to admit it, but this is one of those times where the DC would actually be really good. The problem is that I *refuse* to meta my opponents and always bring all comers lists. I can't justify DC in an all comers list. They suck against lists with great shooting, and make your list overall worse against shooting if you pay for jump packs.

Null zone would make sense, though, seeing as the entire unit has only an invulnerable save. Makes them reroll successful saves, right? That cuts it down from a 50% chance of success to a 25% chance of success, or actually inferior to their baseline 5+ armor save (33%) / 5+ cover save.

Space Marine Librarians are so pro.

Challenge sniping isn't going to work. That blob he'll be running will have tons of cheap sarges that he can chuck in front of you while Azrael gets to frolic around bashing your marines' brains in.

I would say either ignore them, or just swamp them in bullets. His unit is going to be majority T3, so just about anything will throw tons of wounds onto him. Yes, half will be ignored thanks to invuln, but he can only make so many saves.

Essentially, use the tactics that IG use to take out armies with good saves.

 TedNugent wrote:
If you could challenge Azrael, one dude with a Power Fist and a 2+ save should take him down.

Just gotta put one wound through a 4+ invulnerable.

Would never happen. If he's in a blob he's got 3+ sergeants with probably power axes to cut through before he would be forced to accept/decline, and by that point the 20 odd other guys and azrael will likely have put a dent in your squad.

squad? meFEASTon...

You're sure putting a whole lot of thought into killing off a <400 pt unit.

Have you put any thought into the other thousand or so points you'll have to deal with? 30 guardsmen is still 30 guardsmen at the end of the day.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
You're sure putting a whole lot of thought into killing off a <400 pt unit.

Have you put any thought into the other thousand or so points you'll have to deal with? 30 guardsmen is still 30 guardsmen at the end of the day.

nah. hes playing DA. Not sure what else he's fielding, I just didn't know how big of a threat this blob of IG actually was.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Challenge sniping isn't going to work. That blob he'll be running will have tons of cheap sarges that he can chuck in front of you while Azrael gets to frolic around bashing your marines' brains in.

Good point.

You really shouldn't worry about it unless you're playing Purge the Alien or The Relic. In a normal objectives game, that squad can still only take 1 objective. If playing the Relic, I'd throw a (preferably cheap, non-scoring, and durable) suicide squad into them early on to delay them from reaching the Relic. If you're playing Purge the Alien, I'd focus on the rest of his army at least to start, because that blob can take a beating before it goes down.

 g0atsticks wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
You're sure putting a whole lot of thought into killing off a <400 pt unit.

Have you put any thought into the other thousand or so points you'll have to deal with? 30 guardsmen is still 30 guardsmen at the end of the day.

nah. hes playing DA. Not sure what else he's fielding, I just didn't know how big of a threat this blob of IG actually was.

It's going to be the mother of all meatshields, and if he has half a brain he'll give them something like lascannons, plasma, or power weapons to make sure they can do damage.

They're not going to do massive amounts of damage. Their purpose is to catch bullets, keep their special weapons and the tanks behind them alive, and hold ground.

That blob will not charge across the table and murder half your army for example.

Just realize that anything that gets into close combat with that blob before it's properly worn down is not getting out alive unless it can kill 30+ guardsmen or has a way to escape (and that's if it survives 40+ attacks each turn)

Really, just plink away if you have to kill them, ignore them if you don't. They're not going to be fast, and even if he goes x4 plasma/lascannon, he won't be doing tons of damage per turn. I would be more worried on how he plans on using the rest of his list to take advantage of his ultimate meatshield.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

 g0atsticks wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
You're sure putting a whole lot of thought into killing off a <400 pt unit.

Have you put any thought into the other thousand or so points you'll have to deal with? 30 guardsmen is still 30 guardsmen at the end of the day.

nah. hes playing DA. Not sure what else he's fielding, I just didn't know how big of a threat this blob of IG actually was.

It's going to be the mother of all meatshields, and if he has half a brain he'll give them something like lascannons, plasma, or power weapons to make sure they can do damage.

They're not going to do massive amounts of damage. Their purpose is to catch bullets, keep their special weapons and the tanks behind them alive, and hold ground.

That blob will not charge across the table and murder half your army for example.

Just realize that anything that gets into close combat with that blob before it's properly worn down is not getting out alive unless it can kill 30+ guardsmen or has a way to escape (and that's if it survives 40+ attacks each turn)

Really, just plink away if you have to kill them, ignore them if you don't. They're not going to be fast, and even if he goes x4 plasma/lascannon, he won't be doing tons of damage per turn. I would be more worried on how he plans on using the rest of his list to take advantage of his ultimate meatshield.

I love how the Imperial Guard have never been described until prior to the release of Codex DA 6th Edition as the Ultimate Meatshield.

Ok i may be way off base here with this suggestion so forgive if this just won't work at all. What if you run your own allied guardsmen? (providing you have guardsmen available)

Take a CCS with MoO and (optional) a HB/AC
a vet squad w/shotguns.
and a Punisher bolterboat.

Stash the CSS in some ruins and rain down a S9 AP3 Pieplate a turn. Then just unload into the blobsquad with the Punisher each turn till it dies. Way i figured it 29 shots is gonna kill something even with a 4++ save and if need be shepard the Punisher in with the vets.
350 points to counter act the 200ish point blob squad + what ever Az is worth.

Alternatively you could swap out the CCS + MoO for a Primaris Psyker or Lord Commie for 70.

They've been the ultimate meatshield ever since 6th dropped for any army thats battle bros with them.

Heck, one of the first tourney wins was a SW player using a 50 man blob as a wound counter for one of his rune priests.

And even back in 5th, most IG players viewed guardsmen as wound counters for their tanks.

Only real contender to our title would be orks, but they're not battle bros with anybody, so it's harder to pull shenanigans with them like you can with IG.

Also, is this +4 invuln in combat as well? If not, a close combat unit that has tons of attacks could put a hurt on that blob. If they've got the +4 invuln in close combat though... well, I wouldn't let anything get into close combat that you care about. It won't really get destroyed, it'll just take forever for it to chew through that unit.

That said, tying up the blob with a tarpit unit of some sort may not be a bad idea. For example, if a dreadnaught charged in, the only way the guardsmen could kill it would be krak grenades, and no competitive list would be paying for those on guardsmen. Just watch out for meltabombs. No idea if that Azriel guy is a threat to a dreadnaught either.

It's ironic that IG is the only army that blobs suck in

OP, does Azreal grant Fearless to the blob? If so then that is a bitch. If not then it's easy enough to make the blob flee.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

Also, is this +4 invuln in combat as well? If not, a close combat unit that has tons of attacks could put a hurt on that blob. If they've got the +4 invuln in close combat though... well, I wouldn't let anything get into close combat that you care about. It won't really get destroyed, it'll just take forever for it to chew through that unit.

10 Death Company with reclesiarch kill 38 guardsmen on the charge. Probably fair to assume they'd finish them off in the second round of combat.

 BryllCream wrote:
It's ironic that IG is the only army that blobs suck in

OP, does Azreal grant Fearless to the blob? If so then that is a bitch. If not then it's easy enough to make the blob flee.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

Also, is this +4 invuln in combat as well? If not, a close combat unit that has tons of attacks could put a hurt on that blob. If they've got the +4 invuln in close combat though... well, I wouldn't let anything get into close combat that you care about. It won't really get destroyed, it'll just take forever for it to chew through that unit.

10 Death Company with reclesiarch kill 38 guardsmen on the charge. Probably fair to assume they'd finish them off in the second round of combat.

Blobs are fine with IG, as long as you take allies for prescience.

And Fearless is always conferred to the unit.

DC without packs. 20 DC hitting on 3s wounding on 2s with 2 fists in the squad

18 DC on the charge= 50W to T3 average=11 dead guardsmen and Azreal dead if he puts the wounds on azreal. If he puts it on the guardsmen its 25 guardsmen dead.

2 fists is 5 more wounds, this time with no save so 5 more dead guardsmen. Now it turns into a fight between ~16 remaining DC and 30 guardsmen. 2 rounds of combat or bad placements of commissars and the whole combat ends with you winning. 50 blob guardsmen with azreal is vastly overrated.

I'd forgotten that since DC don't have charectors they can actually take Azreal down. In that case yeah I'd take a mob of Death Company, no need for fists or power weapons.

20 points a model for 5 WS5 S5 attacks on the charge. Give them a reclesiarch to re-roll to hit and to wound.

Gentlemen...case closed ;D

Sorry to say this, But I think this is a good tactic (Azrael+Blob)
If I were you, (As a DA Player) I really hate Plasguns and Meltaguns etc... And Yes, Azrael does make his squad Fearless. If you want to be really cheesy, take DA allies (If you can, of course) and take Ezekiel. The use his Sap Will Power on Azrael (Psychic screech would also work against the blob.)

 zephoid wrote:
DC without packs. 20 DC hitting on 3s wounding on 2s with 2 fists in the squad

18 DC on the charge= 50W to T3 average=11 dead guardsmen and Azreal dead if he puts the wounds on azreal. If he puts it on the guardsmen its 25 guardsmen dead.

2 fists is 5 more wounds, this time with no save so 5 more dead guardsmen. Now it turns into a fight between ~16 remaining DC and 30 guardsmen. 2 rounds of combat or bad placements of commissars and the whole combat ends with you winning. 50 blob guardsmen with azreal is vastly overrated.

Lol this statement is quite funny, DC will come down plink a few bolters off the unit then get eaten, this is not good advice, things to know about how this works I run this myself as a 50 man with lascannons and power axes, Azreal has 4w for the record, and gets a choice of his warlord trait, this means at the behest of the angels player this blob will.have furious charge or fnp (this formation is a mid ground holding machine so should be np getting on an obj) in addition to its 4++, fearless and PE:chaos

The way I have my blob set up it runs about 400 pts, with Azreal still only 615, in a 2k game there is still a ton of points left, 20 Dc is hardly worth noticing, they will get to fire their bolters or bolt pistols, if you really are in a point throwing away mood, then get eaten by lascannons, plasma, then for all that trouble probably charged by deathwing or some other counter cc unit,

vindicators are good, fast ones are great, deny them the fnp and try to force saves upon saves, that rock needs to fall, or you lose the midfield and that's an issue if your going to let a guard player sit comfortably behind his lines with whatever warmachines he has, and in any assault
ither it will get passed onto a sarge or ducked and you will just be swinging at tzeentch guardsmen, with 15 possible prescience'd power axes atks coming back at you

Furioso dreads will eat them up for breakfast, yea the sargs will probably have melta bombs if you do manage to kill those, just tie them up in combat, they cannot run away as they are fearless even though they cannot hurt it