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I'm currently playing with Kharn hes assaulting Coteaz can Coteaz dark excommunication Kharn's blessing for the blood god rule even tho its not mentioned in wargear, or special rules. Its only a title. ???

I don't think that is a daemonic gift in the same way the black mace is. Is there any list of what a daemonic gift is?

No i have not been able to find a list of demonic gifts in the new Chaos codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If dark excommunication negates all daemonic gifts would that mean that all of the following happen?

The chaos player looses his Marks of chaos, Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh, Tzeentch and all the bonuses you get from them?

Do you loose your Icons as well?

Chaos rewards?

Chaos boon table?

Chaos artifacts?

These are all probably defined as 'Gifts'

Ive found out that against the Daemon Codex there is a war gear section, "Daemonic Gifts", and Dark excommunication seems to negate all of them, one of the gifts is even titled "Blessing of the blood God."

So.. does Kharn's "Blessing of the blood god" get negated as well?

Nothing gets negated that's not labeled as being a Daemonic Gift. There aren't any in the CSM codex; only in Codex: Chaos Daemons.

"Daemonic Gifts" is a specific term for the war gear in the Chaos Daemons codex. Nothing in the CSM codex is defined as a Daemonic Gift in the same way.

Thank you guys!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry another question about Kharn and his blessing of the blood god, does he have to roll his 2+ save for every force weapon wounding him? so Brother captain stern just wounded him twice, i rolled blessing for the blood god twice and made both so we said he couldn't have instant death applied to him.

You did it correctly


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry my bad, he doesn't get a 2+ save he gets a 5+ for aura but the force weapon cannot inflict instant death anyway

If it is a 2+ invulnerable save against force weapons, then yes he uses it against any wound inflicted by a force weapon - same way a power sword would only let him use his 5+ invulnerable save, and would use that against all wounds from that power sword

It is just a situational special invulnerable save, and you use it like any other saving throw

Kharn is also immune to instant death from force weapons BTW.

The 2+ is only for units taken from the daemons codex. Kharn does not get that his BotBG is different. He only gets the protection from fw's.

pyre wrote:
The 2+ is only for units taken from the daemons codex. Kharn does not get that his BotBG is different. He only gets the protection from fw's.

I'd read Kharn's rule again. There is something about how he rolls for DTW.

 liturgies of blood wrote:

pyre wrote:
The 2+ is only for units taken from the daemons codex. Kharn does not get that his BotBG is different. He only gets the protection from fw's.

I'd read Kharn's rule again. There is something about how he rolls for DTW.

You don't get DtW against Force Weapons though.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 liturgies of blood wrote:

pyre wrote:
The 2+ is only for units taken from the daemons codex. Kharn does not get that his BotBG is different. He only gets the protection from fw's.

I'd read Kharn's rule again. There is something about how he rolls for DTW.

You don't get DtW against Force Weapons though.

I was directing to read the entire rule, that it has more to it than just ignoring ID from Force weapons.

Okay there is a bit of a mix up here...

It seems that you have the two Blessing of the Blood God rules mixed up.

There is the Codex Chaos Deamons, version of the Blessing, wich gives you a 2++ saves against Psy powers and Force Weapons.

And the Codex Chaos Space Marines version of Kharn's Blessing, wich makes him immune to ID's from Force Weapons, and gives him and his unit a Deny the Witch roll of 2+.

Are you sure that Khorne daemons get a 2++ save versus all psychic powers?

Yes.

The main difference between a Deny the Witch roll and a 2++ save, is that in the case of Kharn, no matter what kind of power, you can cancel it, but in the deamons case, because it is a 2++ save, you can only use it against powers that Wounds you, so Powers that can hurt, but that do not Wound you and require you to make a save roll, can't be canceled.

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
Yes.

The main difference between a Deny the Witch roll and a 2++ save, is that in the case of Kharn, no matter what kind of power, you can cancel it, but in the deamons case, because it is a 2++ save, you can only use it against powers that Wounds you, so Powers that can hurt, but that do not Wound you and require you to make a save roll, can't be canceled.

Only if that power is targeted at Kharn. Can't DTW a blessing on the psyker or the activation of a force weapon that will butcher the rest of Kharn's squad.

 Frecklesonfire wrote:
No i have not been able to find a list of demonic gifts in the new Chaos codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If dark excommunication negates all daemonic gifts would that mean that all of the following happen?

The chaos player looses his Marks of chaos, Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh, Tzeentch and all the bonuses you get from them?

Do you loose your Icons as well?

Chaos rewards?

Chaos boon table?

Chaos artifacts?

These are all probably defined as 'Gifts'

Ive found out that against the Daemon Codex there is a war gear section, "Daemonic Gifts", and Dark excommunication seems to negate all of them, one of the gifts is even titled "Blessing of the blood God."

So.. does Kharn's "Blessing of the blood god" get negated as well?

no, marks are not gifts
no, icons are not gifts
no, there are no rewards in the CSM book
no, boons are not gifts, they are boons
no, artifacts are artifacts, not gifts.

Chaos =/= daemon
you might have an argument about daemon weapons, or the CSM models that have the daemon special rule, but there is nothing in the CSM book that is described as a daemonic gift, so dark excommunication doesn't effect anything in the CSM book.

 liturgies of blood wrote:

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
Yes.

The main difference between a Deny the Witch roll and a 2++ save, is that in the case of Kharn, no matter what kind of power, you can cancel it, but in the deamons case, because it is a 2++ save, you can only use it against powers that Wounds you, so Powers that can hurt, but that do not Wound you and require you to make a save roll, can't be canceled.

Only if that power is targeted at Kharn. Can't DTW a blessing on the psyker or the activation of a force weapon that will butcher the rest of Kharn's squad.

Nope, the new Blessing rule says that Kharn AND the unit he joins can DtW on 2+.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Are you sure that Khorne daemons get a 2++ save versus all psychic powers?

Only models that can take Blessing, of course. Which pretty much means any Khorne model except Bloodletters and Bloodcrushers.