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But did you just say . . .

Orkeosaurus wrote:You know, if it wasn't important to have every true man left alive to fight the Genestealers I would be fine with Drk_Oblit being lynched.

The Cardinal has authority in this matter, I'm sure. I hope that we can reconcile both positions, however. And as Stynier and others have reminded us--who is really innocent? Innocent of the alien taint, yes, but guilty of something or another.

Oh, of course we can reconcile them: Killing innocents reduces our ability to fight the Emperor's foes.

Otherwise we could simply have the lot of us burned, and the Aliens would pay for their crimes.

Manchu wrote:Yes, you did vote for Airman. You voted for him because you said you agreed with my criticism of him for voting "no lynch." (And, might I add, when I criticized Airman, I reiterated my vote for you.) Very soon afterwards, you then changed your vote to me claiming that it was because I was offended by people unvoting you. Then, in a most perplexing turn of events, you changed your vote to "no lynch," the very vote that had earned Airman you earlier vote. You have just now changed your vote again, this time from "no lynch" to nothing because you acknowledge, as I have said all along, that it will only result in our having yet slimmer chances.

You have got to admit, this looks rather bad.

It does.

I changed my vote to you, because I FELT that you were, I don't know if you were, but I'm guessing you weren't now, but you haven't really said.

I changed my vote to no lynch because I was angry, and voting for no one to die is the quickest way to let someone die. I'm sorry for doing so for this reason.

Haven't said what? That I'm not a fething genestealer? That I'm the same species as our beloved God-Emperor? Well, I am. I don't know what consolation it gives you or how you feel you can trust it, but here it is: I am not an alien. I am a human being.

Well, you have now at least admitted to wanting to kill us. The others will decide for themselves what your motives were. As for me, that you were angry is not enough.

Orkeosaurus wrote:Oh, of course we can reconcile them: Killing innocents reduces our ability to fight the Emperor's foes.

Otherwise we could simply have the lot of us burned, and the Aliens would pay for their crimes.

I sort of agree, if we blow the ship up, we could kill the genestealers more easily, and those amoung us who are not, would make the ultimate sacrifice to save Holy Terra.

Manchu wrote:Haven't said what? That I'm not a fething genestealer? That I'm the same species as our beloved God-Emperor? Well, I am. I don't know what consolation it gives you or how you feel you can trust it, but here it is: I am not an alien. I am a human being.

Well, you have now at least admitted to wanting to kill us. The others will decide for themselves what your motives were. As for me, that you were angry is not enough.

I believe you've misheard me. I meant that you haven't said whether or not you were really offended. But I'm almost 90% sure you weren't

Do any of us here know how to accomplish such a thing?

*edit (OOC: can we mass suicide? if so, which side wins?)

I was not offended. I was suspicious. It was like you held them in the palm of your hand, like you were guiding them to do your bidding. That seemed rather unnatural. The whole mess was a storm of suspicious behavior with you at its eye.

Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:I sort of agree, if we blow the ship up, we could kill the genestealers more easily, and those amoung us who are not, would make the ultimate sacrifice to save Holy Terra.

The counter argument would have to be "there's no chance of them getting off the ship anyways". I mean, they wouldn't have gotten past Cadia's security, and I would guess the Sol System is better guarded.

And what if the Genestealers themselves hope to destroy something (or someone) on the ship? Or perhaps only seek to destroy the ship itself for the spite they have towards our manifest destiny.

There is no telling what motives lurk deep within the brain of the alien. On the other hand, it could be in their best interest that we destroy the ship if it is carrying something precious to the Imperium--whether in cargo or in passengers. Mayhap there is an Inquisitor here present. And what about the alleged little brother we heard about before?

Manchu wrote:I was not offended. I was suspicious. It was like you held them in the palm of your hand, like you were guiding them to do your bidding. That seemed rather unnatural. The whole mess was a storm of suspicious behavior with you at its eye.

I can see where you're coming from, but, if I didn't lead them to make the decision they did, you'd be voting for me because of what others have done.

I assure you, I did beleive I was Lynched, (OOC: I even wrote my death speech thingy). It was no stroke of tactical genious, but simply luck.

I hate luck. I'd rather it had been some trick than luck, because luck brought me here, and luck will kill me.

Drk_Oblit, If we blow up the ship, what happens to your poor mother on Bal?

Your first point is actually quite valid. But Orkeosaurus has already attempted to make it. I find a weakness in his argument--that you truly thought yourself a goner--and a strength--that you left yourself exposed to danger for a while afterward. If I conclude that you knew that you were actually in no danger, the strength of his argument is easily squared: you did not bother to change your vote because you knew it would not contribute to your death in any case. But how could you know that? You couldn't, not with certainty at least. But you could have a good chance if the only people around were (a) not terribly great in number, (b) either already mobilized or being mobilized, by Orkeosaurus for example, to vote for LotG, and if (c) you are a genestealer and your fellow xenos was present at the time so you knew you could count on him. As for (a) and (b), I do not know for I was not present. And as to (c), it must serve as a premise and a conclusion at the same time. It is not the best argument, I concede, but it is the best one I have yet come up with.

I have not turned my full attention to Airman yet, however.

In any case, your voting pattern as I have outlined it above also makes you look guilty.

Manchu wrote:Your first point is actually quite valid. But Orkeosaurus has already attempted to make it. I find a weakness in his argument--that you truly thought yourself a goner--and a strength--that you left yourself exposed to danger for a while afterward. If I conclude that you knew that you were actually in no danger, the strength of his argument is easily squared: you did not bother to change your vote because you knew it would not contribute to your death in any case. But how could you know that? You couldn't, not with certainty at least. But you could have a good chance if the only people around were (a) not terribly great in number, (b) either already mobilized or being mobilized, by Orkeosaurus for example, to vote for LotG, and if (c) you are a genestealer and your fellow xenos was present at the time so you knew you could count on him. As for (a) and (b), I do not know for I was not present. And as to (c), it must serve as a premise and a conclusion at the same time. It is not the best argument, I concede, but it is the best one I have yet come up with.

I have not turned my full attention to Airman yet, however.

In any case, your voting pattern as I have outlined it above also makes you look guilty.

Very good points Manchu. I am interested to hear your analysis of Airman also. These types of logical arguments are what we need, not rhetoric.

Lord-Loss wrote:Drk_Oblit, If we blow up the ship, what happens to your poor mother on Bal?

Simply put she would die if she existed at all. Just one more sacrifice to protect the Imperium from the foul xenos.

Manchu wrote:Haven't said what? That I'm not a fething genestealer? That I'm the same species as our beloved God-Emperor? Well, I am. I don't know what consolation it gives you or how you feel you can trust it, but here it is: I am not an alien. I am a human being.

Well, you have now at least admitted to wanting to kill us. The others will decide for themselves what your motives were. As for me, that you were angry is not enough.

As much as I hate to take his side Manchu, even the enemy could claim to be the same species as the most glorious Emperor. Also I have stated my desire to kill at least two of our group numerous times. Does that make me a xenos or over zealous in my ways?

I made it clear that may mere claim to be human could not and should not be convincing in and of itself. As to killing--killing a suspect is one thing (hence my scorn for the "no lynch" option) but standing by and intentionally doing nothing when the result will surely be the death of another citizen is quite another thing altogether. Stynier, surely you see the distinction?

Indeed I do. I would think the death of an innocent by our hands would be a better option than not killing and allowing the xenos to claim another. For us killing one who may be human and the xenos claiming another could ultimately help us solve this mystery.

There is no way to proceed without risk. That we might kill a fellow human is actually less risky than refusing to kill any one at all, I agree. But by using our full faculties of reason, we may yet steer a better course than we have before.

Well then let us note who have acted most suspiciously in the past, I will put forth us as an example.

Both of us claim to be Arbites or former Arbites, we seem to have no issue killing our own and in the past we have agreed and supported each other several times.

Don't forget, we have both implacably voted for a single suspect today.

What about Gwar!--the intensely quite fellow? There are a few others that make me nervous for their nigh interminable silence, but he is the worst offender.

Gornall, you insist on reason and logic often enough but seem prepared to let others do the cyber mastiff's share of the argumentation.

DLS has done a very good job of alienating several other people and recently lost his cool altogether in the face of persistent if singular accusations.

BrotherStynier wrote:

Lord-Loss wrote:Drk_Oblit, If we blow up the ship, what happens to your poor mother on Bal?

Simply put she would die if she existed at all. Just one more sacrifice to protect the Imperium from the foul xenos.

And she would be proud of me, and died knowing her son made an honorable sacrifice. She'd be even happier than if I was there caring for her, because all my life she wanted me to be brave, like her father, he was a Commisar.

Ah, perhaps Stynier would recognize his name. Stynier was at the Schola, you know.

Wouldnt your dad be ashamed, that only after two people died, you stopped acting like a child?

Lord-Loss wrote:Wouldnt your dad be ashamed, that only after two people died, you stopped acting like a child?

I'm ashamed of my father, I've never known him.

Indeed we have.

Gwar yes he is rather quite it is suspicious, though it could be he is a simple traveler and the fact he maybe trying to put that aura off adds suspicion.


Gornall, the simple farmer seems to be more than that. Have you ever met a simple farmer that insists on reason or logic? I think not.

DLS has been doing a rather good job at alienating people, though in my experience that Mechanicum does a good job at alienating. If the xenos knew this they could try to play off of that.

Airman and Oblitr8r both arouse my suspicion for obvious reasons.

Frenzied has attracted my attention through his rather suspicious claim.

Manchu wrote:Ah, perhaps Stynier would recognize his name. Stynier was at the Schola, you know.

Indeed I was, perhaps we attended the same Schola? What was your grandfather's name Oblitr8r?

Manchu wrote:Gornall, you insist on reason and logic often enough but seem prepared to let others do the cyber mastiff's share of the argumentation.

I gave my reasoning for each member late yesterday. Not much has changed. I will compile my notes and respond very soon with my latest thoughts.

Frenzied is voting for me. I addressed his reason more than adequately, in my opinion. He did not himself challenge my arguments but his vote stands. I don't know what to make of that.

Manchu wrote:Frenzied is voting for me. I addressed his reason more than adequately, in my opinion. He did not himself challenge my arguments but his vote stands. I don't know what to make of that.

Welcome to my world.

Manchu wrote:(OOC: can we mass suicide? if so, which side wins?)

As with many rules system - we have a permissive one here at Genestealer!. Since there is no mass suicide option you may not mass suicide. I suppose arguably if everyone managed to die it would be a Genestealer victory since their win condition is primarily to kill all the townies, not necessarily to survive till the end. In actuality it would probably be ruled a draw.