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RisingPhoenix wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

Melissia wrote:And I got the exact opposite information from the articles.

As for the last statement, because it intentionally misinterprets what was said before I have no intention of giving it a serious response. So joogity boogity woo. I'm going to go pass out.

That's fine. This is a total shoot: I think what I said is a perfect interpretation of what you've been saying.

Those articles were some flimsy evidence to base your 40% of gamers are female statements on, especially in this context. You act as though I don't know how many women play Farkle, Bejeweled Farmville, Zooville etc... If you had an article that cited sources and gave a breakdown of who was playing what, you'd have an argument. Until then it seems like your wishful thinking has clouded your comprehension of those articles you cited.

Women are out there in significant numbers playing MMOs, action games, first-person shooters.

Wow what a vague, unsupported statement! That settles it for me!

Look, you've provided exactly zero support for your position.

If your position is that women don't game, you're wrong. Science proves you wrong, and statistics proves you wrong. Maybe your local gaming community is an aberration. If your attitude is common, I can see why that aberration might have occurred.

Your only evidence so far has been "I'm right because I like hitting 'submit' a lot."

Irony.

If you're not going to follow the context of the conversation there's no wonder why you're so confused. My position isn't that there is no such thing as female gamers. My position is that 40% of the gamers that GW markets to are most likely not female. And try your Negative Proof Fallacy somewhere else.

Melissia wrote:

SamplesoWoopass wrote:It makes sense to keep your soldiers comfortable

Then the women should tape their chests/wear sports bras that constrict the movement of the breasts, not simply leave them free within a suit. Which is precisely what happens in martial arts classes...

Why do they leave their breasts free in martial arts classes?

Kilkrazy wrote:Has anyone posted this illustration yet?



This is the defining image of SoBs according to the official original codex painted by one of GW's most 'core' artists.

We see; SM domina high heel boots, skin-tight leggings, a strap on the left thigh highly suggestive of a suspender (not sure what Americans call them but they hold a woman's stocking up), perky boobs capped with individual skull breastplates, a torso armour very reminiscent of a whalebone corset, and a pose which confronts the viewer with the implication of a thrust forward crotch concealed behind a light drapery similar to a very heavily split skirt.

This is the kind of imagery of which I believe Melissia disapproves.

This pic was one of the reasons I got a SoB army years back (also one of the few pieces of Blanche art I really like) it is also a pic my wife is very fond of, and she's now nabbed the future SoB release as her own.
I might be able to add a few allies to my CSM or a future Guard army, but she wants the Sisters as her main army, she's also very happy for them to remain as they are style wise.

Don't ask me, but it's a common warning given by instructors to at least wear a sports bra.

Some women just don't like to wear bras, for various reasons. *shrug*

Monster Rain wrote:

Irony.

If you're not going to follow the context of the conversation there's no wonder why you're so confused. My position isn't that there is no such thing as female gamers. My position is that 40% of the gamers that GW markets to are most likely not female. And try your Negative Proof Fallacy somewhere else.

GW markets to female gamers not at all. This does not mean that the market does not exist, or that they are not morons for ignoring that market.

Irony, by the way, doesn't mean 'lol, I think he's wrong!' It's when words or actions are opposite to what would have been expected.

As an example, it would be ironic if someone lecturing another person on how to interpret what others are saying in the course of that lecture revealed that they themselves could not understand what others were saying.

P.S. Fallacies... really need to actually learn what they are sometime.

@Rising Phoenix & Monster Rain: Take it to PM, fellas.

Perkustin wrote:I was reading Melissia's Thread about the codexes and noticed a debate starting about whether or not the Sisters of Battle depictions/miniatures were sexist fantasies or perhaps neccessary for fluff/Artistic reasons. I think there is room for a hearty debate on this subject. Discuss...

Just to weigh in, no. No, they shouldn't.

Primary roles of the Sister of Battle:
1. Soldier.
2. Nun.

Does it look like there is call or opportunity for sexiness? I don't think so. The only reason SoB would be sexy is because they're kickass warriors. The same way that space marines are sexy if you're a straight woman. That is to say, not very.

Melissia wrote:

SamplesoWoopass wrote:It makes sense to keep your soldiers comfortable

Then the women should tape their chests/wear sports bras that constrict the movement of the breasts, not simply leave them free within a suit. Which is precisely what happens in martial arts classes... in fact, for those with larger breasts leaving the chest unbound is painful, as rigorous movement can cause torn ligaments and other injuries.

I like how you take one sentence out of everything and just act like the rest of it never happened. Moving on from that however, if a SOB had particularly large breasts, then they wouldn't be unbound as there's the breast plate that you're complaining about keeping them restricted. As for martial art classes, I'd assume they suggest that so their boobs don't flap out of their gi or get exposed some other way.

But, how about you tape your boobs down for a few weeks, after all their battles wouldn't be over in a few minutes or something like that, and you tell us how comfortable that is.

But really, this whole thing is a pointless, not moot because moot means debateable and I'm so fething sick of seeing people use it the wrong way, because for all we know they could be taped down under their breast plate.

SamplesoWoopass wrote:But, how about you tape your boobs down for a few weeks, after all their battles wouldn't be over in a few minutes or something like that, and you tell us how comfortable that

I don't even have breasts or combat experience and I can answer this one: Better than if they had been bouncing around in a metal suit for the same period of time.

Chongara wrote:

SamplesoWoopass wrote:But, how about you tape your boobs down for a few weeks, after all their battles wouldn't be over in a few minutes or something like that, and you tell us how comfortable that

I don't even have breasts or combat experience and I can answer this one: Better than if they had been bouncing around in a metal suit for the same period of time.

I'm sure they'd have some downtime to untape and wash underneath those things now and then. Otherwise the inside of that armor would start to smell like a monkey cage. Combat isn't non-stop, 24-hour a day fighting, there's a lot of downtime. I'm sure this would be the case for Sisters, since they are still human and wouldn't be expected to fight for the lengths of time that an Astartes might be asked.

Either way, I think now would be the time to ponder whether or not we're reading a little too far into this subject. Feminine Hygiene is something best left outside the scope of armored conversations, particularly on this forum. In the interest of tastefulness, I will leave it at that.

Chongara wrote:

SamplesoWoopass wrote:But, how about you tape your boobs down for a few weeks, after all their battles wouldn't be over in a few minutes or something like that, and you tell us how comfortable that

I don't even have breasts or combat experience and I can answer this one: Better than if they had been bouncing around in a metal suit for the same period of time.

And I wasn't talking to you so....

@MonsterRain: I'm sure they'd have to be prepared for battle at all times if they were being invaded or something along those lines haha.

While Sisters of Battle are the epitome of human martial prowess, they're still humans. They have to rest, take in fluids and nutrition, and so on. Far more than Marines typically do, by the sheer fact that Marines aren't human, they're Astartes, IE EXTREMELY heavily modified and biologically designed.

The human body is an extremely imperfect thing. There's a certain nerve in most mammalian biologies which goes down from the brain, loops around a certain artery coming out of the heart, and then goes back up into the brain. This incredibly inefficient nerve is one of the many examples of imperfect evolution, and with Marines it would not be so hard to think that, of the many surgeries they undergo, they remove such flaws as this in order to improve their body's efficiency.

Regardless, that's as off-topic as this topic is likely to get, to let's go back to talking about [MOD EDIT - Seriously?] on plastic miniatures.

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:Has anyone posted this illustration yet?

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/4845/johnblanche.jpg

This is the defining image of SoBs according to the official original codex painted by one of GW's most 'core' artists.

We see; SM domina high heel boots, skin-tight leggings, a strap on the left thigh highly suggestive of a suspender (not sure what Americans call them but they hold a woman's stocking up), perky boobs capped with individual skull breastplates, a torso armour very reminiscent of a whalebone corset, and a pose which confronts the viewer with the implication of a thrust forward crotch concealed behind a light drapery similar to a very heavily split skirt.

This is the kind of imagery of which I believe Melissia disapproves.

This pic was one of the reasons I got a SoB army years back (also one of the few pieces of Blanche art I really like) it is also a pic my wife is very fond of, and she's now nabbed the future SoB release as her own.
I might be able to add a few allies to my CSM or a future Guard army, but she wants the Sisters as her main army, she's also very happy for them to remain as they are style wise.

Funnily enough, it is one of the reasons I stopped playing 40K for about 15 years.

Thus the balance of the universe is maintained.

kK, that's a bit of an overreaction don't you think?

Kilkrazy wrote:Funnily enough, it is one of the reasons I stopped playing 40K for about 15 years.

Thus the balance of the universe is maintained.

You stopped playing 40K because of that picture

Kilkrazy wrote:Funnily enough, it is one of the reasons I stopped playing 40K for about 15 years.

As a big fan of that image, this honestly floors me. Well, I guess in at least one sense that painting is very successful.

@others: he did say "one of the reasons."

Zefig wrote:I just thought I'd have some fun and sketch up my own little concept. Not trying to make everyone happy, but I kinda like it, and I think it's considerably less..."sexy," I guess. Still too form-fitting for all you naysayers out there?

I meant to say, this is a pretty nice idea as well.

Tbh I'm not really excpecting SoB to change, and I'd be quite happy if they don't, however I also would not be bothered if they looked anything like this. Hell they could be even more armoured, the Spartan armour for the females in Reach was pretty good for not being over the top sexy.

At the end of the day, as long as they maintain the position as the 'faithful' I'll be happy. Ofc as I noted above, they've been half inched off me by the other half, but still, all I really care about is that we get plastics asap as I will have some figs once they hit the shelves.

Melissia wrote:Just because you are too stubborn to admit that nobody in this thread is stating their opinion is actual fact doesn't mean that you are right, it just means that everyone should ignore you because, by your own admission in this very post I quoted, you are doing nothing but trolling instead of posting actual content.

This is a forum on the internet. People post opinions here. That's just how it works.

I should not have to start off every post by saying "in my opinion".

Actually, at least one person has stated, as fact, that Sisters wear underwear outside their armor, and even attempted to back it up with pictures of models. That the pictures didn't show said models wearing underwear outside their armor didn't seem to deter this person from continuing to constantly proclaim the assertion was true.

It was a bit like if Glenn Beck took an interest in 40K.

For the last time, let us consider it as settled that SoB do not literally wear underwear over their armor.

RisingPhoenix wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

Irony.

If you're not going to follow the context of the conversation there's no wonder why you're so confused. My position isn't that there is no such thing as female gamers. My position is that 40% of the gamers that GW markets to are most likely not female. And try your Negative Proof Fallacy somewhere else.

GW markets to female gamers not at all. This does not mean that the market does not exist, or that they are not morons for ignoring that market.

Irony, by the way, doesn't mean 'lol, I think he's wrong!' It's when words or actions are opposite to what would have been expected.

As an example, it would be ironic if someone lecturing another person on how to interpret what others are saying in the course of that lecture revealed that they themselves could not understand what others were saying.

P.S. Fallacies... really need to actually learn what they are sometime.

Wow! I've never seen an american who knows what irony is!

TBD wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:Funnily enough, it is one of the reasons I stopped playing 40K for about 15 years.

Thus the balance of the universe is maintained.

You stopped playing 40K because of that picture

No, the Commissars also helped, and the general inanity of the background.

Seriously, let's drop that (to be charitable) line of inquiry.

Kilkrazy wrote:

TBD wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:Funnily enough, it is one of the reasons I stopped playing 40K for about 15 years.

Thus the balance of the universe is maintained.

You stopped playing 40K because of that picture

No, the Commissars also helped, and the general inanity of the background.

If you dislike it so much why are you moderateing a forum on it?

Because the Tau were introduced, and I thought I can play the game for the modelling, and make fun of the background too.

I don't try to do that in the serious discussion forum, of course.

I'm not making a big deal of it, just pointing out that creating strong images can work both ways.

If you've spent so much time on the hobby that all that's left is cynacism then its time to give it up.

Couple things. First off, thanks for all the feedback on my sketch, both in praise and in constructive criticism. I did it mostly because I just like drawing. Seeing something like that on the tabletop would make me pretty happy. That being said, I don't have too much of a problem with the current miniatures, and the things I don't like about them have been beaten to death in this thread already so I'm not going to bring that up again.

Where I do take issue is with the thought that non-exagerrated feminine form can't be expressed in miniature scale. My own sketch notwithstanding, a quick look through 2 company catalogs yielded some results- Reaper and Dark Sword. Most of these girls are at least moderately armored (somewhat form-fitting though some of it is) and have fairly ambiguous hairstyles (that is to say, I've seen the same style on plenty of male minis). And all of them are pretty unmistakably female, even in 25mm-35mm mini form. And they all do it without OTT, massive boob-cups.





And sources:
http://www.reapermini.com/FigureFinder#detail/02475
http://www.reapermini.com/FigureFinder#detail/02725
http://www.darkswordminiatures.com/mainwebsite_html/gallery/V_4107_femalecleric.htm
http://www.darkswordminiatures.com/mainwebsite_html/gallery/GRRMline_5020_Wildling_Spearwife_Bow.htm
http://www.darkswordminiatures.com/mainwebsite_html/gallery/GRRMline_5028_asha.htm

So. For a skilled sculptor? Definitely possible. For GW's sculptors? Who knows.

Wow! That archer and that green two axer are beautiful. (Out comes the wallet.)

Indeed, both of them seem suitable for a Hero/Lord in WFB. I had always been interested in an Empire army after all...

You might wanna check scale first. I have a few dark sword minis....they're absolutely beautiful minis, but they're a bit bigger than 40k/WHFB scales.

Wow, can't believe I missed this for several days, or how long it takes to get through 18 pages of a thread!

I really like the Sisters current look, with the exception of the pointy-boob Canoness and the hideous inquisitor, but then again, I am a guy. Personally, I quite like thigh-length boots and corsets (although I find them hard to get in my size), and I think it's clear that this is what the visual cues would indicate.

At risk of recapping some of what's already been said, the Garters that Melissia referenced are not the same as a garter-belt (or sussies for the Brits), although they serve a similar purpose and are quite different to a cilice.

However, there is a precedent for the garter as a sign of rank, as in "The Order of the Garter" which entitles you to be addressed as "Sir"...

Anyway, while I think they might take down the bust sizes a little, I would prefer that any new SoB range be similar enough to be mixed with the current ones.

Can I also say that, while I might disagree with her at times*, Melissa seems to take an undue amount of flak?

Simon

*She's right about John Blanche, though!

Gwar! wrote:GW need to make them...

Arrgh I dunno. They need to make them Female but not OMGTITTEHS Female.

Sadly, it will never happen. D:

And why shouldn't they make them omgtitehs? That would get so many people into them!

1.SoB Titehs
2. Plastic models (Ie, removable tits)
3. ????
4. PROFIT! $$$

Seriously, it would do nothing except good fro GW to put tits on them. Maybe Jes will make boobies for us!