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Well, I am glad that Defiance is finally taking off. I had my order of shock troopers delayed by some of the nonsense, and Tony personally replied to my inquiries I now have over 100 Great Coat rifle-men with support weapons. Just have to finish painting 'em all!

I like the Marines and the bugs look pretty cool too, Germans and other art looks great and the concpet of the hard suits is also okay, maybe modify them to avoid looking too much like someone else's hard suits? Mod the head area some what to avoid that egg shape.

MrMoustaffa wrote:

lord_blackfang wrote:

MrMoustaffa wrote:
One random thing I just noticed, but why do the drones look like theyre dancing?

Actually they're an a chav "Back off, I know kung-fu" pose.

What the heck is a chav anyways? I keep hearing brits talk about it, but in the southern US where I live I've never heard that term used. It's something like a white guy who poses as a rapper correct?

We call those speed bumps where I live, due to the fact that they're usually not more than punching bags

I actually made a demotivational poster using that pic that used something along the lines of "come at me bro", but I won't post it because it's rather silly haha

as far as i know a chav is like UK version of trailer trash.

I think the bugs will be perfect as bio-titans for 6mm/epic sci-fi gaming.

Blackhoof wrote:

MrMoustaffa wrote:

lord_blackfang wrote:

MrMoustaffa wrote:
One random thing I just noticed, but why do the drones look like theyre dancing?

Actually they're an a chav "Back off, I know kung-fu" pose.

What the heck is a chav anyways? I keep hearing brits talk about it, but in the southern US where I live I've never heard that term used. It's something like a white guy who poses as a rapper correct?

We call those speed bumps where I live, due to the fact that they're usually not more than punching bags

I actually made a demotivational poster using that pic that used something along the lines of "come at me bro", but I won't post it because it's rather silly haha

as far as i know a chav is like UK version of trailer trash.

As someone explained to me me, they are people who hang around in packs or groups and beat up, rob, fight and pick on people they normally wouldn't when not in the group. So trailer park trash....or newfies

The USMC mould has been cut, and the first cast is scheduled for Monday.

AlexHolker wrote:The USMC mould has been cut, and the first cast is scheduled for Monday.

You need to fix the linky its got a [/url] at the end of it on the defiance games site that brings you to a 404 error. Thanks for posting though.


I hope the plastic starts flowing soon so they can get this behind them and bring out the Germans and the USMC Hardsuits. =o]

FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:

AlexHolker wrote:The USMC mould has been cut, and the first cast is scheduled for Monday.

Awsome 404 error. =o[


I hope the plastic starts flowing soon so they can get this behind them and bring out the Germans and the USMC Hardsuits. =o]

Live link:
http://www.defiancegames.com/index.php/news

They were supposed to be in production by the end of this week but I guess Monday's not too bad since they're already more than 2 months late as is. I'd personally be looking for some interest in the form of extra miniatures from Defiance if I were a pre-paid customer, the incessant delays are reaching ridiculous level now.

The models look nice, we'll just have to see if anything actually makes it out the door. [/sarcasm]

FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:Awsome 404 error. =o[

That's my fault, sorry. I typed the BBCode without really thinking about it, and made a typo.

noneoftheabove0 wrote:The German's were originally set up for HIPS and a sprue the way the Marines are. However, with the turnaround speed of the Bugs and the overall level of satisfaction Tony and the crew have had with it, they're going back in and adapting it to the Hard Plastic. Apparently the Hard Plastic flows better and thinner, so the level of detail can be finer, so they can go back in and fix a few things they weren't happy with, some compromises for the HIPS. I know the helmets are being revisited in particular, but I'm not in the know about what else is being redone. Also, the HIPS limits the parts that can be on the sprue and apparently it is quite expensive to get a mold made. With the new system they're using, it is far cheaper to make a mold, so they are creating some new parts that had to be left off the sprue before. How's everyone feel about kneeling legs? I can't give an exact timeline, considering I don't know exactly how long it took to make the molds for the bugs and all that, but the heavy lifting has already been done and all that's left is adapting it to the new material. Someone who's more on the inside of the business may be able to give a better estimate, but hopefully this will put your mind at ease.

A quick technical explanation for the above: "Hard Plastic" in this case is a thermoset plastic, I.E. a type of resin. They are most likely spincasting the stuff (is my guess) or using RIM (Reaction Injection Molding), which allows production to be done at a faster pace than by hand, but its nowhere near as cheap per part as it would be to use the HIPS injection-molded setup. What this means for us is a shorter wait for product, but my guess is we're going to be paying more (though with luck the product will be more detailed, since its a more forgiving process for undercuts, etc.).The alternative is that they are doing RIM (Reaction Injection Molding) which is kinda like traditional resin casting but its mechanized a bit ala injection molding, in which case we're probably still going to be paying more anyway.

As far as I understand, it is slightly more expensive for the material, but considering the savings on the mold cutting, it comes out pretty much even. I figure most of what you pay for figures is not for the plastic, but for the mold. And if the mold costs one tenth of the other one, then the savings are passed on to you. You end up paying the mold off quicker, getting the company into the black quicker, which gives a faster turnaround time for another new product. Not to mention that a cheaper mold allows the company to do things with a less broad market appeal, because you have to move far less units to get back into the black. Moral of the story: the increased cost of the material should definately be offset by the cheaper mold.

I'm not sure it is a cheaper mold actually. I mean, yes, the cost for one mold is less... but a steel mold will last you a decade, maybe even longer (as will the considerably cheaper aluminum mold) in this hobby, the molds used for the spincasting/RIM process will last you... well, it depends on how many copies you're pumping out, but say somewhere between 250-1000 copies (and thats being rather liberal with my estimate, id be impressed if they can get more than 500 pulls, i'd be surprised if they get more than 300). So, I can't say what the mold itself costs, but I'd imagine after having to replace it say 10 or so times, the costs pretty much break even. Theres also the issue of time, if they are spincasting, then its something like a 10-15 minute work time per mold pull (and RIM is a bit faster than that I think), injection molding you're talking seconds. In the time it takes you to get one copy out of a spincaster, the injection molder can get 100-200 pulls (6sec - 3sec cycle time, and i've heard of even faster before...). The injection molder works unsupervised, the spincaster is a largely manual process and so on and so forth. Moral of the story: It might be cheaper initially, but I sure hope they hired an industrial engineer to evaluate the situation properly.

noneoftheabove0 wrote:As far as I understand, it is slightly more expensive for the material, but considering the savings on the mold cutting, it comes out pretty much even. I figure most of what you pay for figures is not for the plastic, but for the mold. And if the mold costs one tenth of the other one, then the savings are passed on to you. You end up paying the mold off quicker, getting the company into the black quicker, which gives a faster turnaround time for another new product. Not to mention that a cheaper mold allows the company to do things with a less broad market appeal, because you have to move far less units to get back into the black. Moral of the story: the increased cost of the material should definately be offset by the cheaper mold.

That only applies for low volume production runs. Once volume increases, the production cost per model will crowd out the initial overhead cost, making the proper plastic models more profitable.

There's also the problem that restic can't scale up its production like plastic can. Pretty much every manufacturer that uses restic for rank and file - be it Games Workshop's Finecast, Avatars of War's Warcast or Privateer Press's plastics - is incapable of meeting demand, despite charging a higher price. Injection moulded plastic of the sort we're used to might have a higher initial overhead, but it lets you produce - and therefore sell - more models.

chaos0xomega wrote:
.... What this means for us is a shorter wait for product, but my guess is we're going to be paying more .....

Not sure that applies to these marines.

CptJake wrote:

Not sure that applies to these marines.

Of course it doesnt, the marines and the germans use 2 different casting methods supposedly

chaos0xomega wrote:

What this means for us is a shorter wait for product, but my guess is we're going to be paying more (though with luck the product will be more detailed, since its a more forgiving process for undercuts, etc.).

I remember Tony saying that they want to have similar price for all the basic sets, despite different number of models in each set. I personally like this idea as it levels up the initial cost of the armies that require more models for the same amount of points. I think it sucks if someone who likes one faction has to spend double the amount of money than others to have the basic sets (example IG).

Said that, from what I remember the Germans come in a box of 16, not 24 like marines. That would make up for their higher cost maybe...

And the lord said, let there be test shots!

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/422499_367699933262064_184727694892623_1150183_1361438289_n.jpg

The bases are attached to the sides? Interesting

looks kinda flashy, i mean I know it happens sometimes but there's a lot on some of them.

I really like the Mercenaries being called Assured Outcomes. Makes me smile.

Hopefully we'll see some of the larger armoured units come to the fore soon.

Necros wrote:looks kinda flashy, i mean I know it happens sometimes but there's a lot on some of them.

It's explained on their facebook page. Flash occurs when the plastic is forced in under too high of a pressure.

It is a TEST SHOT.

yeah I read some more into it glad they're finally getting done for real now

The good news is that there is now a photo of the assembled marines.

The bad news is that it's at a resolution worse than I could do with my camera, which is ten years old and free.

The moulds are apparently going back for a few more tweaks before they do another test shot. Quite frankly, I'm astounded at how laid back the manufacturer seems to be, given they're two months past their deadline and counting.

Yeah if what they keep telling us is true, I'm not sure why they've been staying with this manufactuer. They've been getting a lot of customers anoyed and that's not good for bussiness. I came in after they'd announced delays, so i knew what to expect, but I imagine for a guy who preordered back in December, this must be infuriating.

Lets hope Defiance gets them to speed up soon, because if stuff like this keeps happening they'll be screwed.

As for the photo's hilariously bad resolution, they still appear to have detail, which is good I guess. Still annoying trying to zoom in and seeing the picture get even blurrier. Maybe he left it blurry to hide some defects they're ironing out?

I ordered back in december, and I must say it has been quite a wait. I am patient so its nice to see some things are starting to progress.

Im not put off by the experience though, if they are good I would order some of there other set. maybe not pre order though

MrMoustaffa wrote:Yeah if what they keep telling us is true, I'm not sure why they've been staying with this manufactuer. They've been getting a lot of customers anoyed and that's not good for bussiness. I came in after they'd announced delays, so i knew what to expect, but I imagine for a guy who preordered back in December, this must be infuriating.

Lets hope Defiance gets them to speed up soon, because if stuff like this keeps happening they'll be screwed.

As for the photo's hilariously bad resolution, they still appear to have detail, which is good I guess. Still annoying trying to zoom in and seeing the picture get even blurrier. Maybe he left it blurry to hide some defects they're ironing out?

Because there is quite a lot of work involved in making a plastic mould, it would have been too difficult to cancel it mid-way through sorting the mould and get another supplier, it might have worked out longer than it has done if they went for another manufacturer. I believe though that the next kits will be produced by someone else.

I'm going to take a shot in the dark and say that the photo is as low resolution as it is because they took the parts from the second test shot and assembled those. They had alot of flash problems on the first run and a few small issues on the second (I think they mentioned that one of the parts had some issues filling with plastic, though there may have been other issues), thusly why the manufacturer is still working. I'm guessing the whole thing is to provide proof positive that plastic is flowing and proof of concept of how well the Marines look assembled. I'm guessing there are some small issues in the details, which is why there aren't a bunch of glory shots of the faces and all that and why they are continuing to tweak the mold. Take the picture for what it is, a huge sign of progress.

noneoftheabove0 wrote:I'm going to take a shot in the dark and say that the photo is as low resolution as it is because they took the parts from the second test shot and assembled those. They had alot of flash problems on the first run and a few small issues on the second (I think they mentioned that one of the parts had some issues filling with plastic, though there may have been other issues), thusly why the manufacturer is still working. I'm guessing the whole thing is to provide proof positive that plastic is flowing and proof of concept of how well the Marines look assembled. I'm guessing there are some small issues in the details, which is why there aren't a bunch of glory shots of the faces and all that and why they are continuing to tweak the mold. Take the picture for what it is, a huge sign of progress.

That's what i would do if I was them, so I don't blame them. At least we know they're almost done. I'm just wondering how many people are actually mad at them, if you look at their facebook posts and news posts on their site, the comments are having more and more negative responses popping up. Granted, it seems to be a few repeating people who are going to every comment field, but that's still not good for bussiness. Hopefully, they can get some nice up close shots soon, if anything just so they can quiet the people who are flipping out over a single low res photo.

I get that some people are upset with it (heck, I wanted up close shots too), but some people are looking at it like its some sort of evil plot to trick customers.

http://defiancegames.com/index.php/news/item/final-usmc-mold-tweak-commencing

These are photos of the final test fire. Apparently there are two things that need to be done still, one being that some packs are sticking to one side of the mold (visible by the three empty sprue bits on the second photo) and a little flash on the bare head. Tony's going to be checking them tomorrow with a magnifying glass just to make sure everything's kosher. In addition, as a thank you to those that preordered, they'll be shipping them a free hero mini. Scuttlebutt is that it's based of Gunny Highway from Heartbreak Ridge. Not sure if those will be shipped with the pre orders or later on. Either way, this is really exciting news.

Those are some outstanding looking troops!