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That just seems like a lot of extra dice rolling.

Umm, why are Paladins characters? I can't seem to find the FAQ for this.

leohart wrote:They have to pass their 4+ lookout before they can put that wound on another dude.

But it's cheaper (no need to take excessive wargear just to differentiate models) and you get 50/50 odds of picking exactly where each wound goes. This sure brings my view of 6th down a few notches

jgehunter wrote:

Dysartes wrote:

Raikoh wrote:So I might have missed somebodies post...

But if I am reading this right, I can't believe more people aren't talking about this:

"Beasts of Nurgle.
Change the effects of Random Poisoned Attacks to read:
"At the beginning of each Fight sub-phase, roll a D6 for each friendly Beast of Nurgle unit that is locked in combat. The result is the number of Attacks (before modifiers) that all Beasts of Nurgle in that unit have this turn. These Attacks have the poisoned (4+) special rule."

So, lets say you have 3 units of Beasts in melee, every single one of them gets D3 attacks?

Do they have to be in the same combat? It doesn't say you have to be...

Did Beasts of Nurgle just get 3 times better?

On this note, imagine you had the double FOC, and you took 6 units... dear god.

Yeah, I'm 90% sure you're not reading that right. You're not getting nd6 attacks per Beast of Nurgle, where n is the number of units.

1, Designate a unit.
2, Roll a d6 - this is the number of attacks Beasts in that unit have.
3, Move on to the next unit.

To be fair, although you are most certainly right, grammatically there is no difference, I wonder if anybody will dare play it this way anyway...

The important bit pointing you towards my interpretation is now highlighted like this in the original quote. If the nd6 theory were correct, that section would be different, possibly saying units.

I would agree that it is another example of an errata that could have been worded better, but you need a fair chunk of wishful thinking to distort the given wording to be nd6.

It looks like that a Long Fang pack can now fire at 3 targets if they want to, if they make the Leadership test for Split Fire. I can't find anything in the rules or SW FAQ to prohibit this from happening.

leohart wrote:Umm, why are Paladins characters? I can't seem to find the FAQ for this.

It's not in the FAQ. It's in the main rulebook. I'd imagine they are characters since they can conceivably be fielded as individuals.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:

leohart wrote:Umm, why are Paladins characters? I can't seem to find the FAQ for this.

It's not in the FAQ. It's in the main rulebook. I'd imagine they are characters since they can conceivably be fielded as individuals.

This is what I'm thinking. I also expect that they aren't designated as indepentant characters specifically so they can't join other units.

Zathras wrote:It looks like that a Long Fang pack can now fire at 3 targets if they want to, if they make the Leadership test for Split Fire. I can't find anything in the rules or SW FAQ to prohibit this from happening.

How about the fact that they don't have the Split Fire USR?

About Power Weapons: Have they said how you are supposed to price them, or are they just the standard cost and determined by what the model has/any special rules regarding the character?

And what's the deal with Axes? Why swinging at the same time as a Fist/Hammer? I'd rather have +1 strength AP3 @ current I with the axe (losing the option for being 'double armed' with a pistol or having the new 'Specialist weapon' USR) with the option to Two-hand it for AP2 @ I1 (gaining 1 attack...for some reason).

Why differentiate between a Chainsword and a close combat weapon? Both do the same AP.

I think they need to FAQ the "makes model strike at I1" (bulky, cumbersome, I forget off hand).

If my Terminators are striking at I1, then damn it I'll give them all fists so I'm at least hitting at S8...of course that makes me no better than the damned Loyalists, and lacking in many ways. Hoping for the new codex sometime soon....

My Sorceror with a Spear though got a boost, maybe D'ken will take the field now more often than Kharn.

Also, Crisis/Stealth suits and their "Thrust"(lol) move, do they have to move the entire 2d6 inches, or can they move up-to whatever the result was? I don't need my suits "Thrusting" themselves into the line of fire instead of where I want them to be hiding at...

Just reading the comments here (as I don't have the book yet) - but Paladins/Nobs can just have a pinball effect for shooting wounds?

I hit Nob 1, says look out sir, moves to next Nob 2 who also has LoS, who decides to move it to Nob 3 with LoS?

Or does it say you can only LoS one time?

Pardon me if someone has already hinted at this, or addressed it all together:
Are monstrous creatures normal melee attacks counted as just that? Are they no longer counted as power weapon attacks?

It seems kinda... silly to do that to a whole group of extremely spendy monsters (at least for Chaos Daemons) just to give them the ability to halve their attacks, double their strength, and hit at AP2.

Uriels_Flame wrote:Just reading the comments here (as I don't have the book yet) - but Paladins/Nobs can just have a pinball effect for shooting wounds?

I hit Nob 1, says look out sir, moves to next Nob 2 who also has LoS, who decides to move it to Nob 3 with LoS?

Or does it say you can only LoS one time?

Theres a rule if the unit is full of characters IIRC. But otherwise I don't see why you wouldn't just put it onto a model insteadof a character.

Beefwhistle wrote:Pardon me if someone has already hinted at this, or addressed it all together:
Are monstrous creatures normal melee attacks counted as just that? Are they no longer counted as power weapon attacks?

It seems kinda... silly to do that to a whole group of extremely spendy monsters (at least for Chaos Daemons) just to give them the ability to halve their attacks, double their strength, and hit at AP2.

MCs are always always ALWAYS striking at AP2, unless they have a weapon which makes them AP1. The 'Smash' USR gives them AP2 on their attacks, unless otherwise stated (the free extra I10 impact hits from jump MCs crashing into CC are AP- for example). Read the Smash USR carefully, you will see how the AP2 applies in general, not just for the special smash attack.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:

lord_blackfang wrote:

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:Given that paladins are characters, and non-squad leader wolf guard are characters, and warlocks are characters, it doesn't look like an oversight. And yeah, it is weird that MANz aren't characters but normal Nobz are.

Again, where does it say that? All I can find is the errata that says Wolf Guard that are squad leaders also gain the Character unit type.

In the table of stats at the back of the book that lists the type for each unit, there is an entry for Squad Leader which lists them as In(ch) for Infantry Character, and an entry for Wolf Guard which lists them as In(ch).

So thinking about that then they all have precesion shots/strikes. Can you say wrong? So I have a pally with a stave, getting 2++ save in CC. He can always save unitl he dies, if he dies. He just moves in to take the save.

Joe Mama wrote:

Beefwhistle wrote:Pardon me if someone has already hinted at this, or addressed it all together:
Are monstrous creatures normal melee attacks counted as just that? Are they no longer counted as power weapon attacks?

It seems kinda... silly to do that to a whole group of extremely spendy monsters (at least for Chaos Daemons) just to give them the ability to halve their attacks, double their strength, and hit at AP2.

MCs are always always ALWAYS striking at AP2, unless they have a weapon which makes them AP1. The 'Smash' USR gives them AP2 on their attacks, unless otherwise stated (the free extra I10 impact hits from jump MCs crashing into CC are AP- for example). Read the Smash USR carefully, you will see how the AP2 applies in general, not just for the special smash attack.

That is much better, thanks for pointing that out to me! My Bloodthirsters got a little sad there for a minute, but that will cheer them right up.

Fayric wrote:Fleet is a huge improvement for them, if you like footdar.

Why do people keep saying this?

skarsol wrote:

Fayric wrote:Fleet is a huge improvement for them, if you like footdar.

Why do people keep saying this?

Im afraid that graf dont say anything unless you explain what 0-100 vs 0-18 is.
Anyway, the point is you can now shoot whatever you got and still assault 2d6" with doubble rerolls if you like. Basicly the same distance but with the small bonus of firearms first

Fayric wrote:
Im afraid that graf dont say anything unless you explain what 0-100 vs 0-18 is.
Anyway, the point is you can now shoot whatever you got and still assault 2d6" with doubble rerolls if you like. Basicly the same distance but with the small bonus of firearms first

It really isn't a hard one to figure out. 0-100 is the chance of you getting there in percentages and 0-18 is the distance in inches.

0-100 is your % chance to reach your target. 0-18 is the distance your target is from you. You're interested in the green and purple lines. In general, you're now around 20% less likely to get to your assault target. Hope you make those pistol shots count.

skarsol wrote:

Fayric wrote:Fleet is a huge improvement for them, if you like footdar.

Why do people keep saying this?

That math was based on 2d6 with a flat re-roll of the full roll, It does NOT take into account Fleet's ability to re-roll an individual dice within the 2d6.

I mean, you are still probably worse off than before, I doubt even with the more complex re-rolling mechanic you can manage a 17% chance of producing a 12 on 2d6, but just be aware that the chart isn't accurate.

How would you even graph the option of rerolling only 1 die? But yes, it's not completely accurate, but the general trend is the same.

Edit: I guess you'd need a line for "Reroll <=5" one for "Reroll <=4" one for "Reroll <=3" etc.

Uriels_Flame wrote:Just reading the comments here (as I don't have the book yet) - but Paladins/Nobs can just have a pinball effect for shooting wounds?

I hit Nob 1, says look out sir, moves to next Nob 2 who also has LoS, who decides to move it to Nob 3 with LoS?

Or does it say you can only LoS one time?

If your purpose is to try and put the game into an infinite loop for no reason... I don't know if there is a restriction on LOS but it does require a dice roll to succeed so there is that natural limit.

skarsol wrote:How would you even graph the option of rerolling only 1 die? But yes, it's not completely accurate, but the general trend is the same.

You can't really I don't think, one thing you can figure is, you have a 30.5% chance of rolling a 6 on at least one of the two dice in your first roll, and once you do that, you are effectively on the 5th edition gradient when you re-roll your other dice, so that's not too shabby.

edit: whoops bad maths originally, apparently I can do statistics but I can't add 5 and 6 together properly...

Fayric wrote:
Anyway, the point is you can now shoot whatever you got and still assault 2d6" with doubble rerolls if you like. Basicly the same distance but with the small bonus of firearms first

There is still a rule about only getting to reroll dice once.

A 25% chance of being as good as you were before isn't exactly awesome. And the addition of pistol shots is kinda a wash in view of the fact that your target is now firing back at you as well (Compare reduced BS to the likely that their weapons are better than yours if you're a primarily melee unit)

skarsol wrote:A 25% chance of being as good as you were before isn't exactly awesome. And the addition of pistol shots is kinda a wash in view of the fact that your target is now firing back at you as well (Compare reduced BS to the likely that their weapons are better than yours if you're a primarily melee unit)

Corrected my maths, was actually 30.5%.

I definitely don't like what overwatch means to melee units, especially the fact that it's all but impossible to deny it to your opponent, so far all I have found to counter it is charging within 8 inches with defensive grenades, and that's only good for a 6+ cover save, but I really don't think mobility is the big issue, I think fleeting units did okay out of 6th.

Do people even play this game? All I see all the time now is Mathhammer. No wonder everyone thinks as of as Geeks, Nerds or just plain Dorks when trying to play a game.

Alot of people have to Mathhammer everything. I wonder if you guys do this as well trying to get a girl. Like Sheesh, come on get a life.

I will do some math hammer. It has been proven lots of times Mathhammer doesn't work lots of times so no matter how good the odds mathhammer says something should work, it doesn't alot of times.

Go out and just play the game.

warboss wrote:

Uriels_Flame wrote:Just reading the comments here (as I don't have the book yet) - but Paladins/Nobs can just have a pinball effect for shooting wounds?

I hit Nob 1, says look out sir, moves to next Nob 2 who also has LoS, who decides to move it to Nob 3 with LoS?

Or does it say you can only LoS one time?

If your purpose is to try and put the game into an infinite loop for no reason... I don't know if there is a restriction on LOS but it does require a dice roll to succeed so there is that natural limit.

LOS says you can only redirect a wound once. So you can't continuously shift wounds around.

(As a side note, the only time multiple redirects would be useful is to move wounds from the front of a conga line to the back, via multiple characters along the way).

Oh, I agree that fleet wasn't crippled, I just object to the people saying the Fleet change was a big boost.

And yeah, Defensive grenades are good, but rare. They even explicitly FAQ'd them away from the melee units in the Demons codex, which is kinda a kick in the teeth.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Davor wrote:Do people even play this game? All I see all the time now is Mathhammer. No wonder everyone thinks as of as Geeks, Nerds or just plain Dorks when trying to play a game.

Alot of people have to Mathhammer everything. I wonder if you guys do this as well trying to get a girl. Like Sheesh, come on get a life.

I will do some math hammer. It has been proven lots of times Mathhammer doesn't work lots of times so no matter how good the odds mathhammer says something should work, it doesn't alot of times.

Go out and just play the game.

Statistics aren't guarantees? Who knew?!

Davor wrote:Do people even play this game? All I see all the time now is Mathhammer. No wonder everyone thinks as of as Geeks, Nerds or just plain Dorks when trying to play a game.

Alot of people have to Mathhammer everything. I wonder if you guys do this as well trying to get a girl. Like Sheesh, come on get a life.

I will do some math hammer. It has been proven lots of times Mathhammer doesn't work lots of times so no matter how good the odds mathhammer says something should work, it doesn't alot of times.

Go out and just play the game.

Coming up with a downright stupid comparison certainly does not help conveying your point.

I don't see how basing your decisions on rational reasons aka mathematics instead of going straight random makes you any more or less "nerdy". Mathhammer works ALL the time, jfyi, as it's basic mathematics. The problem is that some people assume that they will never fail a LD 10 roll because the chance to do so is really low. They forget that mathhammer tells you the average chance of happening.