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elrabin wrote:

warboss wrote:

Uriels_Flame wrote:Just reading the comments here (as I don't have the book yet) - but Paladins/Nobs can just have a pinball effect for shooting wounds?

I hit Nob 1, says look out sir, moves to next Nob 2 who also has LoS, who decides to move it to Nob 3 with LoS?

Or does it say you can only LoS one time?

If your purpose is to try and put the game into an infinite loop for no reason... I don't know if there is a restriction on LOS but it does require a dice roll to succeed so there is that natural limit.

LOS says you can only redirect a wound once. So you can't continuously shift wounds around.

(As a side note, the only time multiple redirects would be useful is to move wounds from the front of a conga line to the back, via multiple characters along the way).

Yes A wound. When you have Characters you have to do them one at a time, so I LOS, I save. Next wound I LOS and save. Next wound, I LOS and I save. You are only doing it once a wound.

At least that is my understanding.

RogueRegault wrote:
Also note that the Tau FAQ is missing the million dollar question "Do Seeker Missiles fired at Fliers hit at BS1 or BS5?"

The FAQ does answer this.

Firing at a flier (without using the Skyfire rule) can only be done with Snapshots. Snapshot makes the firer shoot at BS1. The Tau FAQ states that Seeker missiles fire at BS5, even if the firing vehicle is reduced to BS1.

So once you Markerlight a flier (with Snapshots, since Tau currently have no Skyfire Markerlights), you can fire a Seeker at BS5. Then cross your fingers.

So now you allocate wounds closest to farthest - ignoring different combos of wargear. Doesn't that mean that a unit of 5 paladins or nobz will just end up with each one taking a wound (assuming you did 5 wounds)? Even if all 5 wounds go through you would still not kill a single model?

With the character rule in a way yes, in theory

At least the way I see it. Every wound can be shed off to another model. Which means pick and choose.

Noisy_Marine wrote:So now you allocate wounds closest to farthest - ignoring different combos of wargear. Doesn't that mean that a unit of 5 paladins or nobz will just end up with each one taking a wound (assuming you did 5 wounds)? Even if all 5 wounds go through you would still not kill a single model?

It's possible but unlikely since each LOS requires a roll.

Oh how does it work if you don't use look out sir?

Noisy_Marine wrote:So now you allocate wounds closest to farthest - ignoring different combos of wargear. Doesn't that mean that a unit of 5 paladins or nobz will just end up with each one taking a wound (assuming you did 5 wounds)? Even if all 5 wounds go through you would still not kill a single model?

So they have basically taken the the automatic wound shenanigans and applied a dice roll to each redirection. A 50% chance seems like a decent compromise given that not having it would seriously nerf paladins.

whoadirty wrote:

Noisy_Marine wrote:So now you allocate wounds closest to farthest - ignoring different combos of wargear. Doesn't that mean that a unit of 5 paladins or nobz will just end up with each one taking a wound (assuming you did 5 wounds)? Even if all 5 wounds go through you would still not kill a single model?

So they have basically taken the the automatic wound shenanigans and applied a dice roll to each redirection. A 50% chance seems like a decent compromise given that not having it would seriously nerf paladins.

My issue now is bascially every Pally has the Stave now(2++). As you can always redirect to it, with the right roll of course.

As you can always redirect to it, with the right roll of course.

You can redirect to Draigo too if he's in the unit.

Therion wrote:

As you can always redirect to it, with the right roll of course.

You can redirect to Draigo too if he's in the unit.

But why would I do that when I can redirect to a 2++. Seems like a better choice to me.

First of all, you can LOS as many wounds in a turn as you like. There is no restriction on this. The restriction is that you can only LOS a single wound once. What this means is that you cannot bounce a wound around a unit of characters until your opponent gets tired and throws you out a window. That is all. There is no other limitation.

Second, you have to keep in mind when wounds and saves are allocated.

If all the models in the unit will be using the same save, then you LOS and allocate the wounds all at the same time, AFTER any saving throws have been rolled (although supposedly before FnP).

If the models are going to have different saves, then you roll LOS for the first wound, allocate the wound, and THEN roll any applicable saves from the new receiving model, before repeating the process with the next wound. Also keep in mind that the shooting player gets to decide what order these wounds are saved in.

So although there's a lot of things to exploit and take advantage of with this new system, there are a few restrictions to keep in mind:

-This means that you may NOT use LOS to pass a better save on to models with weaker saves.
-This means that you may NOT use LOS to pile all the instant-death wounds on to a single model.

If you look at the previous fleet(run+charge), it's D6" + 6", think of the 6" as an automatic 6 in that 2D6", so really, I don't think 2D6" can in any way compare with the previous fleet.

Obviously, it's still a great addition for armies who didn't have fleet previously, but for the fleet armies, it's no doubt a nerf.

5th ed: D6 + 6", no shooting before assault(because you ran), average on the run should be 3", so, minimum distance is 7"(on a roll of 1), and average being 9".

6th ed: 2d6", shooting before assault, but average distance should be 7", and 8" with fleet(thanks to the maths of 1 of the dakka posters in that rumour thread, forgot his name though...)

Shooting before assault is only useful for units that can shoot, so... nids shooting?

Fafnir wrote:First of all, you can LOS as many wounds in a turn as you like. There is no restriction on this. The restriction is that you can only LOS a single wound once. What this means is that you cannot bounce a wound around a unit of characters until your opponent gets tired and throws you out a window. That is all. There is no other limitation.

Second, you have to keep in mind when wounds and saves are allocated.

If all the models in the unit will be using the same save, then you LOS and allocate the wounds all at the same time, AFTER any saving throws have been rolled (although supposedly before FnP).

If the models are going to have different saves, then you roll LOS for the first wound, allocate the wound, and THEN roll any applicable saves from the new receiving model, before repeating the process with the next wound. Also keep in mind that the shooting player gets to decide what order these wounds are saved in.

So although there's a lot of things to exploit and take advantage of with this new system, there are a few restrictions to keep in mind:

-This means that you may NOT use LOS to pass a better save on to models with weaker saves.
-This means that you may NOT use LOS to pile all the instant-death wounds on to a single model.

Sure but not in CC. There is no assaulting player can choose, its done at Int steps now. But that clearifies a bit.

So just looked it up, where do you get they have to have different saves to do so. Under the LOS rules on pg 16 of brb is says nothing about different saves. You just have to pass the 4+ to shed off the save to another.

Hey, heres a fun bit.
SW wolfguard are now characters.
Characters may allocate wounds themself if they roll 6es (with precicion shot rule).
Wolfguard can carry assaultcannons and cyclone missiles. Beware all fancy guys hiding in units.

Not to mention the advantage of having a terminator leading an assault with the new wound allocations.

Fayric wrote:Hey, heres a fun bit.
SW wolfguard are now characters.
Characters may allocate wounds themself if they roll 6es (with precicion shot rule).
Wolfguard can carry assaultcannons and cyclone missiles. Beware all fancy guys hiding in units.

Not to mention the advantage of having a terminator leading an assault with the new wound allocations.

True but they will have a slight drawback as the can't sweep as the terminator would be there, and they can't sweep. but everyhting else would work.

Does anyone else fell like GW did a little "modeling for advantage" with the new templates?
GW has a pic of the flamer template being used, and it looks like the silver "tip" is the part touching the firer?
Don't get me wrong, My PCS and Hellhound are all for it! But does that mean the silver around the edge of the
blast templates counts as hitting targets too?

I would say no!

Hm sounds like you can still have multiwound models running around with wounds on them. Doesn't sound like they made wound allocation any better.

Only the inside of the templates counts.

Source: local GW employee.

Sigvatr wrote:Only the inside of the templates counts.

Source: local GW employee.

Not the most reliable source.

He says one thing, this pic released by the company he works for would suggest otherwise.

Baronyu wrote:
5th ed: D6 + 6", no shooting before assault(because you ran), average on the run should be 3", so, minimum distance is 7"(on a roll of 1), and average being 9".

6th ed: 2d6", shooting before assault, but average distance should be 7", and 8" with fleet(thanks to the maths of 1 of the dakka posters in that rumour thread, forgot his name though...)

That doesn't sound right.

I haven't worked out all ways, but even taking a simpe strategy of rerolling 3s or less on either dice means that 54% of all assault rolls will be 9 or higher, with very few rolls being less than 6, so the average will be higher than 8, the modal is 10.

Then there is the impact of premeasuring, if you know exactly how far you have to make at the point of charge you can reroll dice accordingly.

Fayric wrote:Hey, heres a fun bit.
SW wolfguard are now characters.
Characters may allocate wounds themself if they roll 6es (with precicion shot rule).
Wolfguard can carry assaultcannons and cyclone missiles. Beware all fancy guys hiding in units.

Not to mention the advantage of having a terminator leading an assault with the new wound allocations.

The SW FAQ clearly adds their becoming characters to the option to be squad leaders, which strongly suggests they aren't characters unless they become squad leaders, this one is much more clear cut than Nobs, they aren't meant to be characters when they are in a Wolfguard squad, you have to be being intentionally obtuse to claim otherwise.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

alarmingrick wrote:

Sigvatr wrote:Only the inside of the templates counts.

Source: local GW employee.

Not the most reliable source.

He says one thing, this pic released by the company he works for would suggest otherwise.

you are using a picture where the guy isn't even measuring from the base of the model to prove a point about template use?

Yeah, no, not gonna happen.

Drunkspleen wrote:

Fayric wrote:Hey, heres a fun bit.
SW wolfguard are now characters.
Characters may allocate wounds themself if they roll 6es (with precicion shot rule).
Wolfguard can carry assaultcannons and cyclone missiles. Beware all fancy guys hiding in units.

Not to mention the advantage of having a terminator leading an assault with the new wound allocations.

The SW FAQ clearly adds their becoming characters to the option to be squad leaders, which strongly suggests they aren't characters unless they become squad leaders, this one is much more clear cut than Paladins or Nobs, they aren't meant to be characters when they are in a Wolfguard squad, you have to be being intentionally obtuse to claim otherwise.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

alarmingrick wrote:

Sigvatr wrote:Only the inside of the templates counts.

Source: local GW employee.

Not the most reliable source.

He says one thing, this pic released by the company he works for would suggest otherwise.

you are using a picture where the guy isn't even measuring from the base of the model to prove a point about template use?

Yeah, no, not gonna happen.

Just to be clear, I'm not advocating that it be done that way.
If you look at the pic, the barrel of the flamer is directly under the template edge.
The fact that pic is out there, means someone, somewhere, and maybe multiple times,
will try to pull it on others. I just wish they would a) make it clear, b) not release pics like that.

alarmingrick wrote: Just to be clear, I'm not advocating that it be done that way.
If you look at the pic, the barrel of the flamer is directly under the template edge.
The fact that pic is out there, means someone, somewhere, and maybe multiple times,
will try to pull it on others. I just wish they would a) make it clear, b) not release pics like that.

Oh okay, in that case I totally agree.

When I first noticed it I suggested to my friend I was going to home make a grey frame for my older green flame template with a 6 inch spike at the narrow end.

Sigvatr wrote:Only the inside of the templates counts.

Source: local GW employee.

Only the inside counts. If you look in the back of the rulebook, there are standard-sized templates to photocopy and cut out. In the product description in WD, it states, "Each templates INNER frame denotes a weapons blast area and is detailed with arcing lightning effects of blue crystal".

balsak_da_mighty wrote:
Sure but not in CC. There is no assaulting player can choose, its done at Int steps now. But that clearifies a bit.

Yes, wound allocation for shooting and CC is different. LOS mechanics are still the same, however.

So just looked it up, where do you get they have to have different saves to do so. Under the LOS rules on pg 16 of brb is says nothing about different saves. You just have to pass the 4+ to shed off the save to another.

The key word is "allocate." Look for the rules for normal wound allocation, and then look at the rules for wound allocation on models with different saves. You'll notice that you allocate the wounds in a different order according to the respective circumstances.

Davor wrote:Do people even play this game? All I see all the time now is Mathhammer. No wonder everyone thinks as of as Geeks, Nerds or just plain Dorks when trying to play a game.

Alot of people have to Mathhammer everything. I wonder if you guys do this as well trying to get a girl. Like Sheesh, come on get a life.

I will do some math hammer. It has been proven lots of times Mathhammer doesn't work lots of times so no matter how good the odds mathhammer says something should work, it doesn't alot of times.

Go out and just play the game.

"Mathammer" show you how your game is not working, or working. Any game designer do things like that, to assure the game will have the right ammount of chance he is willing to use in the game. Chance is not a exact thing, and al of us know how you can roll 3 1's in a row, against all odds, but "mathammer" is a way to predict the most common possibilitie...

I think we now know why the game get so lame... Ms ward probably see this "chance thing" in the same way as you...

Look at the dominat lists of 5th: all of them work around mat hammer dude...

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:

Davor wrote:Do people even play this game? All I see all the time now is Mathhammer. No wonder everyone thinks as of as Geeks, Nerds or just plain Dorks when trying to play a game.

Alot of people have to Mathhammer everything. I wonder if you guys do this as well trying to get a girl. Like Sheesh, come on get a life.

I will do some math hammer. It has been proven lots of times Mathhammer doesn't work lots of times so no matter how good the odds mathhammer says something should work, it doesn't alot of times.

Go out and just play the game.

"Mathammer" show you how your game is not working, or working. Any game designer do things like that, to assure the game will have the right ammount of chance he is willing to use in the game. Chance is not a exact thing, and al of us know how you can roll 3 1's in a row, against all odds, but "mathammer" is a way to predict the most common possibilitie...

I think we now know why the game get so lame... Ms ward probably see this "chance thing" in the same way as you...

Look at the dominat lists of 5th: all of them work around mat hammer dude...

Exactly. If the rules behind a system are broken, then the entire system is broken. "Mathammer" just happens to be a very good way to analyze the rules of the system.

The picture is purely to show off the template. It's clearly not based on the rules.

puree wrote:

Baronyu wrote:
5th ed: D6 + 6", no shooting before assault(because you ran), average on the run should be 3", so, minimum distance is 7"(on a roll of 1), and average being 9".

6th ed: 2d6", shooting before assault, but average distance should be 7", and 8" with fleet(thanks to the maths of 1 of the dakka posters in that rumour thread, forgot his name though...)

That doesn't sound right.

I haven't worked out all ways, but even taking a simpe strategy of rerolling 3s or less on either dice means that 54% of all assault rolls will be 9 or higher, with very few rolls being less than 6, so the average will be higher than 8, the modal is 10.

Then there is the impact of premeasuring, if you know exactly how far you have to make at the point of charge you can reroll dice accordingly.

Here, have some maths voodoo(by elrabln): http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/456706/4449300.page

To get 9" average, you'd need to roll a 5 or a 6 on 1 of your D6, which is definitely not the average of a D6... Rolling 2 dice won't magically make that average higher. You should still be expecting 3 and 4 per dice, so 7 - 8.

I don't want to up this thread as well, but I'll stand by my view that 2D6" benefits MEq and other non-fleet assault units, but nerfed fleet assault units hard, they basically now do the same range as everyone else. So, I'm not saying 2D6" is absolutely horrible news for everyone, but it's definitely so for people who prefer solid numbers and previous fleet assault army owners.