Rumors for Chaos Space Marines - Upd 8/12/2012 in OP

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**pretre**

From the_trooper's link

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Updated OP

**Rivet**

I would like to see pictures of these Slaaneshi chariots

**drbored**

1. For such a teaser, I'd hope that they're doing a full 40k Codex for Chaos Daemons to bring them into the 6th edition fold, but it looks like GW is doing a White Dwarf supplement that they're forcing us to buy if we want to use any of the shiny new kits, a supplement that will probably be invalidated by future FAQ's or codices.

2. I'm ok with a Daemon update, at least model wise. It sounds like Slaanesh is getting some love, which has been rare from GW (remember how long it took them to update Seekers of Slaanesh? And there's still those fugly metal Fiends..) The current Daemonettes are great kits (not as sexy, but great plastic kits), and I can only hope that they get to the Greater Daemons sooner than later.

3. I too am disappointed at the lack of CSM. I think GW could have seen a great spike in revenue if they had gone ahead and updated them sooner rather than later, but it seems they're motivated to keep their revenue stream even. I don't know why, a lot of other companies clamor for the instant, easy revenue streams, but GW seems to be content to let it spread out.

4. It's possible that this is in relation to their distribution system. If they can't satisfy the desires of those that want 6th edition rulebooks, how can they expect to satisfy a higher unit count from those that want to enjoy the new Chaos Marines Codex and models? Between the tidbit of the White Dwarf getting changed last minute and the stuff about the distribution system, one can easily put a story together. The real issue though is that GW won't come out and say anything about it. They'll be content to let us spin our wheels, like they always have been.

5. I just wish GW would have a system where they let stuff leak from on high that knocks down the wrong rumors out there, like the ones that are really wrong, before they spin into this massive ball of expectation and hype that then only works against them. You don't have to release anything new, just tell us when we're dead wrong so that we don't get into this fit of nerd rage. Moving into the Internet realm, as younger kids come to these sites and more of the 40k and fantasy playerbase has an Internet presence, more people are going to have access to these rumors, either directly or through friends that read them (I'm the major rumormonger for my FLGS, delivering all this stuff to the players there). If we just had a little tidbit about when we're dead wrong, then that would reduce the rage and negative feelings towards GW. Instead, they choose to continue to ignore us in this information age because of a movie deal that's going to produce a sub-par product that only a handful of beardies over in the UK are going to purchase and enjoy.

That's about it. Still waiting impatiently for my terribad Chaos Marine Codex to be updated. At least Eldar still have competitive builds and Tau got a boost from the 6th ed rules.

**Cerebrium**

Eh, no CSM is a pain, but I play Word Bearers, so woo more daemon allies. Especially plastic plaguebearers, which I was REALLY hoping for. Plastic flamers too.

**Lord Scythican**

Ok so is this fantasy Soul Grinder going to look different than the Soul Grinder we have now? If not, I am not sure about its look. Seems really mechanical looking for fantasy. Heck if you are going to have the 40k grinder in fantasy you might as well give the defiler to Warriors of Chaos.

**the_trooper**

Lord Scythican wrote:Ok so is this fantasy Soul Grinder going to look different than the Soul Grinder we have now? If not, I am not sure about its look. Seems really mechanical looking for fantasy. Heck if you are going to have the 40k grinder in fantasy you might as well give the defiler to Warriors of Chaos.

"Iron Warriors of Chaos"

**pretre**

Blood of Kittens wrote:Ok now that we got the basics out-of-the-way let us get to the good stuff

–Daemons–

A good number of units in the CSM codex have this USR.

Raptors
Oblits
CC Oblit
Defilers
Demon Engines
Dragons
Possessed
Demon Prince
–It Will Not Die–

Wonder who was getting this new USR well you guessed it CSM is.

Dragons
Defilers
Demon Engines
–Demon Possessed–

Demon possessed just got a whole bunch cuter really. Instead of not being able to embark in demon possessed vehicles they now will only eat one of your guys and repair itself. Otherwise works the same way as before lose BS and ignore shaken and stunned, In addition some things get wargear automatically.

Dragons
Defliers
Demon Engines
–Challenges–

All CSM characters must always accept challenges

–Icons and Marks–

Marks and Icons are both purchasable by most units. That means you have five new Icons and the same four marks, in which units can have a combination of two. This is a list of the USRs and stat bonus possible.

Fearless
FnP
+1 T
+1 Invul Save
Rage
Soul Blaze
Furious Charge
Fear
+1 I
–Space Marines Better Hide–

Almost all CSM units get Hatred Space Marines. Now I am not sure if this includes all Space Marine variants or just Smurfs and friends.

–?Eye of the Gods Table?–

Yeah this will be the chart to end all charts and competitive players will cry everywhere because it is random. All 60+random abilities! Yes you heard it right over 60! How it works I don’t know, but characters can get multiple rolls on the chart through various methods.

Time for some specific models right? Sure why not!

–Dragon–

Oh the Dragon yeah the model on everyone mind. This is a CSM answer to other flyers it is designed almost exclusively to hunt and destroy other flyers. Clocking in about the same points cost of Carnifex these little hell on wings Vector Strike and bring pain to a lot of things. Did I mention it gets to re-roll wounds and armor pens.

–Demon Engines–

The other mystery model that has been leaked. These guys sit on the large bases like Trygons. They have an assortment of special weapons that have never been seen before. They are designed for Building and Heavy armor destruction with Melta CC weapons and bonuses against buildings. They as well get to re-roll wounds and armor pens. Side note: Defilers as well get to re-roll wounds and armor pen.

–Dragons, Demon Engines, Defilers oh my-

So let me put this in perspective. All these models ignore shaken and stunned, have 5+ invul saves, re-roll wounds and armor pens, and can recover wounds and hull points lost.

–Cult Units–

I know much of the Internet was crying about them only being in the Elite slot when I first mentioned it. How dare they force me to take Kharn to spam Berserkers! Well don’t worry is not as bad as you think. You can also get a generic Lord and buy the correct mark and unlock them as troops as well. As for the rules themselves just minor changes.

Zerkers: Rage, Cheaper
1k Sons: Soul Fire, Same cost
Emperor Children: Weapons Ignore cover and now have Salvo USR, Cheaper
Plague Marines: Poison Weapons, More Expensive
–Typhus and Cultists–

Typhus is now a mastery level 2 sorcerer of Nurgle. In addition as reported earlier he can make any cultist a zombie. Zombies are going to be disgusting in 6th edition. FnP, Fearless, Fear, and all for no additional cost. As for Cultists they are cheap not conscript cheap, but close. You can get over 30 of them in a squad.

–Daemon Princes, Sorcerers , Chaos Lords–

Princes got more expensive wargear bringing them in line with the Demon Codex. Sorcerers are pretty much the same with the ability to buy up to Master level 3, but they only ever have 2 wounds. Chaos Lords are where it seems to be at, Phil Kelly wants you to design a Lord tailored to your army, their list of wargear options is easily the largest of any model in the book. Also remember they allow you to make Cult Units troops.

Ok that is all I got for now, depending on how the week goes and what GW does I might get more rumors for you, but until now that is all I got. Wait, no I just remembered something…

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I didn't add his grading of other people's rumors. I'll add this to the OP and tracker thread.

**Medium of Death**

Plastic Screamers and Flamers? Excellent.

I'm a tad saddened to see the Greater Daemons that were left following on to resin. Makes it less likely we will be seeing plastic GD's in the near future.

**SickSix**

If true, that sounds fairly awesome.

I like the idea of custom tailored HQ that can unlock cult forces as troops.

**Rivet**

SickSix wrote:If true, that sounds fairly awesome.

I like the idea of custom tailored HQ that can unlock cult forces as troops.

Me too. I am worried about my Daemon Princes being less viable however. I have not liked the vulnerability of non Daemon Prince HQ's with the chance of instant death.
I am also curious about these marks and icons.

**The Fragile Breath**

"Exalted Seeker Champion of Slaanesh", twice as much money as the regular chariot, also, single print? Limited time only, perhaps?

**Rivet**

The Fragile Breath wrote:"Exalted Seeker Champion of Slaanesh", twice as much money as the regular chariot, also, single print? Limited time only, perhaps?

Better be one amazing model.

**Hulksmash**

First off hell yes to the plastic screamers and flamers. That's awesome. Also hell yes to the Slaanesh chariot.

Secondly I'm in love with the chaos rumors. Sounds fun. And I'll be able to build my Iron Warriors how I want to match. Hope the basic troops still tote Boltgun, Bolt Pistol, and CCW. Since it's Kelly I'm sure they do at 15pts per model hopefully

**Enigwolf**

pretre wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:
I didn't add his grading of other people's rumors. I'll add this to the OP and tracker thread.

I do feel that despite that, there were a few nuggets of information that were cut, especially with regards to looks of units or their functionality, which he expanded upon in his "grading". I know I, amongst many others, have been dying to hear any scrap of information about the how the Chaos flyer looks besides "it's a mechanical dragon".

-There is an Eye of the Gods-like table ~like the WFB Warriors of Chaos table.
You get to roll on whenever a character kills another character in a challenge, or a Walker or Monstrous Creature. There is a multitude of gifts (and curses) that your Characters can acquire which range from +1 Save, +1 Toughness, or becoming either a Spawn or a Daemon Prince!!!
(Sorta True — trying to lump all the funky stuff into one table is not totally accurate. CSM codex is table land. Expect many random charts and upgrades it will be hard to keep track.)

-The Dragon flyer is in – think Necron Night Scythe with the main chassis replaced by a massive mechanical dragon head with segmented wings sweeping forward and around from it.
(True – The thing looks like a dragon head attached to the Owl from Clash of the Titans)

-Dark Apostles – ~Word Bearers rejoice!!!
(True– but more of cultist leader/moral buffer)

-Warp Smiths – Chaos Techmarines that can curse vehicles and degrade terrain. ~maybe they’ll have anti-psychotic grenades
( True -Think Doc Ock )

-New Daemon Engine – half way between a Dreadnought and a Defiler.
(True -I would say halfway between Defiler and Trygon)

-Defilers are Daemons and have a 5+ Inv save.
(Yes a Demon, and some extra lovin…)

–Important Designer Note–
The new CSM codex is not a return to the 3rd edition codex, this is the successor to Gav Thorpe’s creation– the current CSM codex. Unlike before Phil Kelly was put in charge of building from the ground up; Space Wolves, Dark Eldar, and Orks codexes he instead has taken a much more subtle approach with the CSM Codex. This is not the reinvention of the wheel at its core this is a validation for Gav Thorpe and perhaps if you could ask Gav, Phil Kelly’s CSM codex would have been the codex he wished he could have written, but wasn’t allowed to.

–What will be Released–
We will know if GW has changed policy. This codex will reveal if GW has abandoned the wave method to model release with a new codex or if they have stopped caring and show you all the new models even if they don’t come out right away.
Finecast: Dark Apostle, Warsmith, New Lord, Oblits, All Old Special Characters not updated already
New Plastic: Dragon, Raptors, Dreadnaught, Demon Engine, Assault Oblits, Chosen
Upgrade Packs: Plague Marines, 1k Sons, Emperor’s Children

–General Changes–
Almost all of the old units are either the same point cost or have gotten cheaper. With the notable exceptions of Chosen, Terminators, Defilers getting more expensive. The notable cheaper ones being basic CSM, Oblits, Zerkers, The CSM is really an upgrade codex, while things have gotten cheaper you will be hard pressed to keep your units inexpensive with all the wargear you can add. The cheaper units doesn’t come without a cost as well, almost all units saw a LD drop. Also you will start to see a lot of the new USRs in the CSM book.

–What has stayed the Same–
The Cult units are the same in stats and basic wargear. No new Spacial Characters. Abbadon is still the only one with Eternal Warrior. Demon Weapons still can kill you. The Dreadnaught is still Crazy. The unit sizes have stayed the same as well as the wargear options found in the old codex; e.g. Chosen can still get a butt load special weapons.

–Psychic Powers–
As can you expect each Chaos God gives their chosen Sorcerer access to their own set of spells. That allows you to pick from Basic Spells and the new ones for each God. If anyone was wondering Lash of Submission is gone.
Ok now that we got the basics out-of-the-way let us get to the good stuff

Snippets taken from here: http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/massive-csm-rumor-drop.html#more

**garrapignado**

New daemon plastic models is good enough to make me forget about no Chaos Marines. I don't play daemons, but every plastic release deserves a clap.

About CSM info: Have to wait, but I think a count-as Stormtalon will replace that dragon. Not every CSM army fits well in a mixed flesh-iron army. I think they should release a plane for CSM, a dragon for daemons and let people mix them.

About obliterators: resin shooting oblits but plastic CCW oblits? Hard to believe, or better said, I don't want to believe. A dual plastic kit would be better.

Curious about marks/icons.

**Enigwolf**

garrapignado wrote:About obliterators: resin shooting oblits but plastic CCW oblits? Hard to believe, or better said, I don't want to believe. A dual plastic kit would be better.

They could have been "like obliterators", but not the same as, which would mean different models and thus different kits. I definitely do hope that they do that with the Raptors though.

**Cerebrium**

The one thing I'm really worried about: Undivided getting the shaft. Cult troops etc are all fine and dandy, but my Word Bearers and Iron Warriors are both looking sketchy.

**pretre**

Enigwolf wrote:
pretre wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:
I didn't add his grading of other people's rumors. I'll add this to the OP and tracker thread.

I do feel that despite that, there were a few nuggets of information that were cut, especially with regards to looks of units or their functionality, which he expanded upon in his "grading". I know I, amongst many others, have been dying to hear any scrap of information about the how the Chaos flyer looks besides "it's a mechanical dragon".

Okay, I put it into the first post.

**Rivet**

NO! They took away my lash?! Say this rumor is false!

**Enigwolf**

Rivet wrote:NO! They took away my lash?! Say this rumor is false!

SAY THAT IT'S TRUE! Ahah. Since post-3rd ed codex, I have had a particular loathing for lash for shoehorning Chaos into 1 build lmao. Though I will have to say that if this rumor is true, there's going to be a lot of people sitting with daemon princes who won't be happy...

**Steve steveson**

Enigwolf wrote:
garrapignado wrote:About obliterators: resin shooting oblits but plastic CCW oblits? Hard to believe, or better said, I don't want to believe. A dual plastic kit would be better.

They could have been "like obliterators", but not the same as, which would mean different models and thus different kits. I definitely do hope that they do that with the Raptors though.

Or maybe a bit of a missunderstanding and it is a resin upgrade, like the Tau Broadside?

**Enigwolf**

Steve steveson wrote:
Enigwolf wrote:
garrapignado wrote:About obliterators: resin shooting oblits but plastic CCW oblits? Hard to believe, or better said, I don't want to believe. A dual plastic kit would be better.

They could have been "like obliterators", but not the same as, which would mean different models and thus different kits. I definitely do hope that they do that with the Raptors though.

Or maybe a bit of a missunderstanding and it is a resin upgrade, like the Tau Broadside?

If the rumors are right, then I think the poster would've put it under the upgrades with the cult-marine upgrades... I don't know. I would really dislike GW if they made us spend more money for an upgrade pack.

**Rivet**

Enigwolf wrote:
Rivet wrote:NO! They took away my lash?! Say this rumor is false!

SAY THAT IT'S TRUE! Ahah. Since post-3rd ed codex, I have had a particular loathing for lash for shoehorning Chaos into 1 build lmao. Though I will have to say that if this rumor is true, there's going to be a lot of people sitting with daemon princes who won't be happy...

They better have something unique to Slaanesh besides +1 initiative and Sonic Weapons that are too expensive to be viable, oh and are there any rumors about marks for Dreads? I would very much like to see (if the upgrade price is viable) sonic weaponry reintroduced to Dreads and vehicles.

**Lou_Cypher**

Hmmm... Dragons can Vector-Strike?

So they're more of an FMC than a vehicle flier?

**Rivet**

Are there any rumors about what these updated rules for Daemons in 40k and Fantasy are going to be in the leaflet mentioned?

Here's hoping the entire army does not have to deep strike and that Screamers are useful in either army.

**Beer4TheBeerGod**

Cerebrium wrote:The one thing I'm really worried about: Undivided getting the shaft. Cult troops etc are all fine and dandy, but my Word Bearers and Iron Warriors are both looking sketchy.

Seriously. After the abomination that was the 4th edition codex I would hope they would at least give Undivided a LITTLE bit of attention, but I still haven't seen a damn thing. At least Word Bearers get their cultists.

**pretre**

Lou_Cypher wrote:Hmmm... Dragons can Vector-Strike?

So they're more of an FMC than a vehicle flier?

Not sure if serious...

It's a Dragon... You know, a flying, fire-breathing monstrous creature.

**Rivet**

I think I would have preferred a vehicle flyer than a monstrous creature. We already have Daemon Princes (given wings) that seem like amazing flyer hunters as is.

Why give us yet another daemonic creature if you are taking away the rest of our daemons.

I actually liked the Storm Talon and would have liked to see a Chaos flyer similar to that.

**unmercifulconker**

I can live with next month, cas reading them rumours about csm has made me very very very happy, CAN NOT WAIT to get a demon engine, chosen oh and a dragon and a soul grinder and that herald guy oh and err.....

Edit: Heavily customised lords with their own warlord traits? Oh dear I think I am going to faint.

**Steve steveson**

Enigwolf wrote:
Steve steveson wrote:
Enigwolf wrote:
garrapignado wrote:About obliterators: resin shooting oblits but plastic CCW oblits? Hard to believe, or better said, I don't want to believe. A dual plastic kit would be better.

They could have been "like obliterators", but not the same as, which would mean different models and thus different kits. I definitely do hope that they do that with the Raptors though.

Or maybe a bit of a missunderstanding and it is a resin upgrade, like the Tau Broadside?

If the rumors are right, then I think the poster would've put it under the upgrades with the cult-marine upgrades... I don't know. I would really dislike GW if they made us spend more money for an upgrade pack.

True, but I was just offering a possibility. I could be wrong.