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Requizen wrote:


None of the formations seem to give just free rules like most of the ones that are out so far. No just given MTC, Stealth, Hammer of Wrath, or anything like that.

Hounds get free Mark of Khorne. Not extra rules, but still, free rules.

Shroud of Deceit would be awesome against a Stormsurge or even a unit of Stormsurges. You can make them waste their own D missiles on shooting their own guys at strength 8 ap 1.

It seems to be a great counter against a bunch of top tier stuff.

 bubber wrote:
Can you take take a formation more than once? ie 2 lots of CSM Sorcerers each casting Shroud of Deceit

Yes. But, that's getting pretty expensive on just Sorcerers. And you can't put both formations in the same unit since there's a restriction preventing a unit from casting the same power twice.

DarthDiggler wrote:
Shroud of Deceit would be awesome against a Stormsurge or even a unit of Stormsurges. You can make them waste their own D missiles on shooting their own guys at strength 8 ap 1.

It seems to be a great counter against a bunch of top tier stuff.

Relatively good counter. I could see Biker Sorcs in a big unit of KDK Hounds being a thing. Run up, get tied in combat, make enemies shoot each other. Still, you need to get up the field alive in a timely manner, which can be really hard against some armies.

 bubber wrote:
Can you take take a formation more than once? ie 2 lots of CSM Sorcerers each casting Shroud of Deceit

Some tournaments don't allow it, but there is nothing that prevents it in the rules.

Been running an attached CSM CAD with my KDK just for sorcerers, the cabal is very welcome to me.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
I'm just hoping that "and their descendants" in the case of Imperial Fists means that there's something for Templars in there and not just people using CT: IF.

I hope so as well. That or if they do make the BT use the same detachment/formation as the IF, at least give the BT the ability to use Crusader Squads in place of Tactical Squads.

They flashed pics of the old predator and land raider cut away posters... are they rereleasing them? I have the raider in an old WD issue, but I'd love to add both posters to my wall.

 Swampmist wrote:
Wait, is there anything stopping him from placing it on himself? Normally you can't shooting allies, but is he an ally of himself when you take him over?

The power says you make a shooting attack with the unit "as though it were part of your army," so I imagine that no, he cannot drop it on himself.

Anybody have more info on the 28 new psychic powers?

Or on the three new detachments(Imperial Fists, Iron Hands, and Salamanders) and any formations exclusive to them?

Would also like to know if they left Black Templars out in the rain. I imagine their WD Warlord Traits made it in, but so hope that isn't it. Solidarity with my IF Successor brothers!

I sure hope the new detachments include the Battle Company bonus. It's totally unfair that WS and RG need to pay pts for their transports.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
I sure hope the new detachments include the Battle Company bonus. It's totally unfair that WS and RG need to pay pts for their transports.

honestly, I hop that the Gladius becomes UM only, and no-one else gets the free transports. Seriously, the free transports thing isn't even that weird for UM, they're one of the biggest Chapters and likely have a ton of armor to use. Everyone else though? super glad their getting something special, as much as it's unfair to everyone else that they are.

 Swampmist wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
I sure hope the new detachments include the Battle Company bonus. It's totally unfair that WS and RG need to pay pts for their transports.

honestly, I hop that the Gladius becomes UM only, and no-one else gets the free transports. Seriously, the free transports thing isn't even that weird for UM, they're one of the biggest Chapters and likely have a ton of armor to use. Everyone else though? super glad their getting something special, as much as it's unfair to everyone else that they are.

I don't see why space marines should have to pay pts for anything honestly. They are the Emperor's finest afterall.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 Swampmist wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
I sure hope the new detachments include the Battle Company bonus. It's totally unfair that WS and RG need to pay pts for their transports.

honestly, I hop that the Gladius becomes UM only, and no-one else gets the free transports. Seriously, the free transports thing isn't even that weird for UM, they're one of the biggest Chapters and likely have a ton of armor to use. Everyone else though? super glad their getting something special, as much as it's unfair to everyone else that they are.

I don't see why space marines should have to pay pts for anything honestly. They are the Emperor's finest afterall.

. No, but seriously, I'm tired of the White Scars Gladius rush going to any tourney that stops the SuperFriends from going full force. UM would atleast need to actually think about their positioning, and wouldn't be able to hit the midfield before turn 1

 Swampmist wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
I sure hope the new detachments include the Battle Company bonus. It's totally unfair that WS and RG need to pay pts for their transports.

honestly, I hop that the Gladius becomes UM only, and no-one else gets the free transports. Seriously, the free transports thing isn't even that weird for UM, they're one of the biggest Chapters and likely have a ton of armor to use. Everyone else though? super glad their getting something special, as much as it's unfair to everyone else that they are.

Actually, I would rather that Gladius remains open to everyone, but Ultramarines get access to every detachment and formation available to C:SM. All of the formations and detachments are in the Codex Astartes anyway, so the Chapter that knows the Codex front to back should be able to use it to the fullest. Whereas, other Chapters, such as the White Scars and Raven Guard, have picked the basic deployment pattern and one other that plays to their strengths.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Swampmist wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
I sure hope the new detachments include the Battle Company bonus. It's totally unfair that WS and RG need to pay pts for their transports.

honestly, I hop that the Gladius becomes UM only, and no-one else gets the free transports. Seriously, the free transports thing isn't even that weird for UM, they're one of the biggest Chapters and likely have a ton of armor to use. Everyone else though? super glad their getting something special, as much as it's unfair to everyone else that they are.

Actually, I would rather that Gladius remains open to everyone, but Ultramarines get access to every detachment and formation available to C:SM. All of the formations and detachments are in the Codex Astartes anyway, so the Chapter that knows the Codex front to back should be able to use it to the fullest. Whereas, other Chapters, such as the White Scars and Raven Guard, have picked the basic deployment pattern and one other that plays to their strengths.

Eh, true. I dunno, it just seems weird that the bonuses that are quite clearly meant for UM are usable by everyone, no matter how little sense it makes. Honestly, with every founding chapter (and hopefully BTs [and maybe a special thing for fists?]) getting a detachment, I don't see why the one that illustrates how the UM wage war needs to be open to everyone. Heck, I've said it since I got the book; once I don't have to play non-UM as Gladius, I see no reason to as it makes no sense to me. But meh, maybe it's just me, idk.

Stormcast Eternals don't pay pts for anything. Don't tell me the Emperor has less resources than Sigmar!

But seriously, everyone should get something free. If not transports then something. Like maybe Iron Hands could get free dreadnoughts and Salamanders could get free dinosaurs or something. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to compete with Gladius and that just wouldn't be balanced.

 Swampmist wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Swampmist wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
I sure hope the new detachments include the Battle Company bonus. It's totally unfair that WS and RG need to pay pts for their transports.

honestly, I hop that the Gladius becomes UM only, and no-one else gets the free transports. Seriously, the free transports thing isn't even that weird for UM, they're one of the biggest Chapters and likely have a ton of armor to use. Everyone else though? super glad their getting something special, as much as it's unfair to everyone else that they are.

Actually, I would rather that Gladius remains open to everyone, but Ultramarines get access to every detachment and formation available to C:SM. All of the formations and detachments are in the Codex Astartes anyway, so the Chapter that knows the Codex front to back should be able to use it to the fullest. Whereas, other Chapters, such as the White Scars and Raven Guard, have picked the basic deployment pattern and one other that plays to their strengths.

Eh, true. I dunno, it just seems weird that the bonuses that are quite clearly meant for UM are usable by everyone, no matter how little sense it makes. Honestly, with every founding chapter (and hopefully BTs [and maybe a special thing for fists?]) getting a detachment, I don't see why the one that illustrates how the UM wage war needs to be open to everyone. Heck, I've said it since I got the book; once I don't have to play non-UM as Gladius, I see no reason to as it makes no sense to me. But meh, maybe it's just me, idk.

The Gladius is the basic technique. All the others are the advanced techniques. The UM should have access to all of them, since they are the experts on the book that contains the techniques. The other chapters should have the ability to use the basic technique and the advanced technique that fits them the best. Otherwise it wouldn't make sense for them to be able to use a specialized Battle Demi-Company alongside the basic Battle Demi-Company. The Detachments all represent deployment strategies. I think Ultras should be able to use all of them. Heck, I think they should be able to use the Gladius alongside ANY of the Auxiliaries and Cores.

Back on to the subject of the book, why do I have the sinking feeling that once I get this book that I am going to be going on a spending spree for my Crimson Fists?

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Actually, I would rather that Gladius remains open to everyone, but Ultramarines get access to every detachment and formation available to C:SM. All of the formations and detachments are in the Codex Astartes anyway, so the Chapter that knows the Codex front to back should be able to use it to the fullest. Whereas, other Chapters, such as the White Scars and Raven Guard, have picked the basic deployment pattern and one other that plays to their strengths.

The Chapter most familiar with the Codex Astartes should certainly be familiar with all of the formations that are included in the Codex Astartes. They would have no particular reason to be practised in battle strategies utilised by Chapters that don't fully adhere to the Codex.


So you sort of have it backwards. It's more likely that Chapters that stick less strictly to the Codex would be familiar with what is in it and use whichever parts of it they happen to agree with than it is that Ultramarines would use anything other than the strictly defined Codex formations.

Or, in other words - everyone would potentially have access to the Gladius, but Ultramarines wouldn't necessarily have acces to everyone else's formations... only those that belong in the Codex Astartes.

 insaniak wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Actually, I would rather that Gladius remains open to everyone, but Ultramarines get access to every detachment and formation available to C:SM. All of the formations and detachments are in the Codex Astartes anyway, so the Chapter that knows the Codex front to back should be able to use it to the fullest. Whereas, other Chapters, such as the White Scars and Raven Guard, have picked the basic deployment pattern and one other that plays to their strengths.

The Chapter most familiar with the Codex Astartes should certainly be familiar with all of the formations that are included in the Codex Astartes. They would have no particular reason to be practised in battle strategies utilised by Chapters that don't fully adhere to the Codex.


So you sort of have it backwards. It's more likely that Chapters that stick less strictly to the Codex would be familiar with what is in it and use whichever parts of it they happen to agree with than it is that Ultramarines would use anything other than the strictly defined Codex formations.

Or, in other words - everyone would potentially have access to the Gladius, but Ultramarines wouldn't necessarily have acces to everyone else's formations... only those that belong in the Codex Astartes.

I am pretty sure that Kauyon says something to the effect that the specialized formation for White Scars and Raven Guard ARE in the Codex Astartes, just that they aren't as commonly used. Hence why any Space Marine army can make use of the formations.

EDIT: Just looked it up. It is in the black Designer's Note at the start of the section on the White Scars. It says all of the formations are Codex-approved, thus being able to be used by the Ultramarines, Iron Hands, and so on.

My argument isn't that other Chapters should lose access to the Gladius, they absolutely should keep access to it. I just think Ultras, for the first time in recent history, are getting the shaft by only having one Detachment style available to them, while the other Chapters have at least two. I am hardly an Ultramarine fanboy, but I do think that it is a little unfair.

Maybe they should just allow the Ultramarines to be the only ones who can use the new formations in a Gladius, to represent their knowledge of all things Codex. This way they get more army building options while still using the detachment that represents then.

After all, I can't really think of another detachment type that would suit the Ultramarines. At least, not one that's unique to them.

 Crazyterran wrote:
Maybe they should just allow the Ultramarines to be the only ones who can use the new formations in a Gladius, to represent their knowledge of all things Codex. This way they get more army building options while still using the detachment that represents then.

After all, I can't really think of another detachment type that would suit the Ultramarines. At least, not one that's unique to them.

That would certainly be fine by me. The detachments would be a Chapter (and Successor) putting their own spin on the traditional Gladius, but the Ultramarines use the Codex in its entirety. That way, everyone gains a little something out of this book.

BTW, I really hope there is something in this book for Fists Detachment that lets me make use of my two Stormtalons without having to get a Stormraven. I really like the Raptor Wing, but I doubt anyone besides the Raven Guard are going to get that one.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
Maybe they should just allow the Ultramarines to be the only ones who can use the new formations in a Gladius, to represent their knowledge of all things Codex. This way they get more army building options while still using the detachment that represents then.

After all, I can't really think of another detachment type that would suit the Ultramarines. At least, not one that's unique to them.

That would certainly be fine by me. The detachments would be a Chapter (and Successor) putting their own spin on the traditional Gladius, but the Ultramarines use the Codex in its entirety. That way, everyone gains a little something out of this book.

BTW, I really hope there is something in this book for Fists Detachment that lets me make use of my two Stormtalons without having to get a Stormraven. I really like the Raptor Wing, but I doubt anyone besides the Raven Guard are going to get that one.

Im imagining a Fists detachment is going to be focussed on sieges and holding the line. Guess we will see, but...

I'm expecting the Fist themed formations to deal with Devastators, Centurion Devastators, Vindicators and Terminators.

Hopefully the Fists perks aren't just the Chapter Tactics update from Sentinels of Terra and the +1 vs Buildings.

It should be noted that the Fists are also described as being codex adherent in terms that seem on par with the Ultramarines, their speciality in siege tactics are a carryover from their pre-Heresy history but their modern incarnation does this within the boundaries of the Codex.

I don't really see a justification for a UM exclusive gladius formation that the Fists couldn't utilize or vice-versa.

That said: my profound hope is we get a formation that somehow, miraculously makes terminators good.

 Captain Joystick wrote:


That said: my profound hope is we get a formation that somehow, miraculously makes terminators good.

Amen to that, the true Elite of the SM have been a poor choice for far too long.

 Swampmist wrote:

. No, but seriously, I'm tired of the White Scars Gladius rush going to any tourney that stops the SuperFriends from going full force.

You're mad that something is stopping a degenerate deathstar?

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Swampmist wrote:

. No, but seriously, I'm tired of the White Scars Gladius rush going to any tourney that stops the SuperFriends from going full force.

You're mad that something is stopping a degenerate deathstar?

No, Im mad that WS abuse the gladius. Im the guy who advocated for a two-detachment limit to stop lists like the one at Adepticon, which abused superfriends to the max . I was arguing that Gladius should be UM only, since almost everyone else has their own now. WS with free transports is stupid as gak, though superfriends is even worse

what about the forgeworld chapter tactics?
Also, How it is quote "Abuse" of the gladius?

FW will have to reconcile that when they redo the chapter tactics; they're from sixth edition, so they need an update either way . Also, a ton of free teansports that all get Scout from Khan and then cover the entire biard in threat bubble, cap every objective, and even when you get to the marines inside they have Hit&Run so you can't lock them up to stop the from capping? Its super dumb.

Sooooooo? I dont see the problem with that. Its good ant objectives yeah.