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They have their own though. Even ignoring how good tge list can be, Im annoyed that they have access to it despite having their own personal detachment, which is much fluffier and isn't exactly weak. Same reason I won't play Sallies, Fists or IH in the Gladius once the book comes out. They have their own, no reason the Ultrasmurfs shouldn't get their detachment too.

Isnt weak? it is very weak. bikes loose Obsec, the thing thake makes them good.
Face it. the Gladius is for all.

 Captain Joystick wrote:
It should be noted that the Fists are also described as being codex adherent in terms that seem on par with the Ultramarines, their speciality in siege tactics are a carryover from their pre-Heresy history but their modern incarnation does this within the boundaries of the Codex.

I don't really see a justification for a UM exclusive gladius formation that the Fists couldn't utilize or vice-versa.

That said: my profound hope is we get a formation that somehow, miraculously makes terminators good.

All the Chapters within Codex: Space Marines do whatever they are doing within the bounds of the Codex. The Ultramarines are the best at adhering to the Codex, or doing as the Codex says. Even the White Scars, which are the most deviant of the Codex Chapters, still technically adhere to the 6/2/2 and other organizational doctrines laid out by the Codex.

If a chapter had to defend a point, the White Scars would Ride out while the Tactical Marines held the wall, the Raven Guard would forget defending the point and fade into the shadows to perform hit and run tactics, and the Imperial Fists would stubbornly stand on the Bulwarks and invite the enemies to come. The Ultramarines would pick whatever the Captain best suited the mission, and stick more closely to the guidelines of the Codex. An Imperial Fist wouldn't even think to fade into the Shadows, and a Raven Guard captain would dismiss a glorious stand as wasteful. Depending on what they are fighting, either could be right.

There is going to be a Fistcurion. We are saying that there should be Ultramarines specific - and instead of making something that utilizes certain units (which wouldn't fit with the Ultramarines), instead, they have more choices available, which would fit with them using the Codex approved battle tactics that they have memorized front to back.

I play a Cent Star, and as someone who plays a Death Star, you don't really get to complain about a MSU army beating you... it's what we call 'expected'.

 Swampmist wrote:
No, Im mad that WS abuse the gladius. Im the guy who advocated for a two-detachment limit to stop lists like the one at Adepticon, which abused superfriends to the max . I was arguing that Gladius should be UM only, since almost everyone else has their own now. WS with free transports is stupid as gak, though superfriends is even worse

White scars are still codex army. White scars with only bikes. Now that is stupid. Where are all the rhino mounted tacticals? You know? The actual core of white scar chapter?

 Swampmist wrote:
Im the guy who advocated for a two-detachment limit to stop lists like the one at Adepticon,

So you're actual problem is with the points limit then.

You can't get superfriends and a full Gladius in a sane level of points.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Isnt weak? it is very weak. bikes loose Obsec, the thing thake makes them good.
Face it. the Gladius is for all.

But the buffs are good, and it's fluffy. Also, the Gladius is obviously for the Ultramarines, so I don't think it SHOULD be for everyone.

EDIT: Darkness, Im arguing that both are dumb independently, not together.

I'm not sure why you guys are saying Gladius should only be Ultramarines, when the DA codex has the Lion's Blade detachment, which is the same structure as the Gladius for the demi company, you just get BS3 overwatch instead of the tactical doctrines. You even get the free transports.

And....the reason it's built that way is because DA Company organization (for most companies) is an exact 1-1 match to the core unit composition. Each company is 6 tactical squads, 2 assault squads, and 2 devastator squads. So are the other Codex-compliant chapters...and the reason they get free transports is because, again, when you look at the organization of a standard battle company, it includes one Rhino per squad.

Let me rephrase what I was saying:

I'm saying the Ultramarines should have a unique Gladius that, while identical benefits and basic set up of the current Gladius (HQ/3/1/1), they would have more access to formations than the other Chapters, to represent their knowledge of the Codex and the Ultramarines being the everyman/most flexible Chapter is their thing. They don't do any particular aspect the best, but they can do everything.

Back on topic please! Thanks!

so, on the psychic powers, anyone else prepared to laugh if the powers other than Veil of Tears are kinda ass? Yeah Viel is strong, but Invisibility would be seen a lot less if it where in the telekinesis tree where every other power is basically worthless. Same thing might be true here. Lets wait and see what the rest do before we assume that SM got even better (though it wouldn't surprise me if the new lores are playable, and even op at times.)

 Swampmist wrote:
so, on the psychic powers, anyone else prepared to laugh if the powers other than Veil of Tears are kinda ass? Yeah Viel is strong, but Invisibility would be seen a lot less if it where in the telekinesis tree where every other power is basically worthless. Same thing might be true here. Lets wait and see what the rest do before we assume that SM got even better (though it wouldn't surprise me if the new lores are playable, and even op at times.)

I am fully prepared to see that. I don't really have much use for Veil of Time because a 2+ Rerollable Armor Save is still easily passed by AP2 (which is stupidly too common). Veil really only shines on Invulnerable saves.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Swampmist wrote:
so, on the psychic powers, anyone else prepared to laugh if the powers other than Veil of Tears are kinda ass? Yeah Viel is strong, but Invisibility would be seen a lot less if it where in the telekinesis tree where every other power is basically worthless. Same thing might be true here. Lets wait and see what the rest do before we assume that SM got even better (though it wouldn't surprise me if the new lores are playable, and even op at times.)

I am fully prepared to see that. I don't really have much use for Veil of Time because a 2+ Rerollable Armor Save is still easily passed by AP2 (which is stupidly too common). Veil really only shines on Invulnerable saves.

Well, on a basic terminator it might make them playable. 2+ re-roll vs. anything AP3+ is pretty invulnerable, and even the humble 5++ turns into something vaguely acceptable when you get to roll it twice. It’s not unstoppable deathstar level of survivable, but decent.

 Nevelon wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Swampmist wrote:
so, on the psychic powers, anyone else prepared to laugh if the powers other than Veil of Tears are kinda ass? Yeah Viel is strong, but Invisibility would be seen a lot less if it where in the telekinesis tree where every other power is basically worthless. Same thing might be true here. Lets wait and see what the rest do before we assume that SM got even better (though it wouldn't surprise me if the new lores are playable, and even op at times.)

I am fully prepared to see that. I don't really have much use for Veil of Time because a 2+ Rerollable Armor Save is still easily passed by AP2 (which is stupidly too common). Veil really only shines on Invulnerable saves.

Well, on a basic terminator it might make them playable. 2+ re-roll vs. anything AP3+ is pretty invulnerable, and even the humble 5++ turns into something vaguely acceptable when you get to roll it twice. It’s not unstoppable deathstar level of survivable, but decent.

I'm excited because Hammernators with my IH will be amazing

 Nevelon wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Swampmist wrote:
so, on the psychic powers, anyone else prepared to laugh if the powers other than Veil of Tears are kinda ass? Yeah Viel is strong, but Invisibility would be seen a lot less if it where in the telekinesis tree where every other power is basically worthless. Same thing might be true here. Lets wait and see what the rest do before we assume that SM got even better (though it wouldn't surprise me if the new lores are playable, and even op at times.)

I am fully prepared to see that. I don't really have much use for Veil of Time because a 2+ Rerollable Armor Save is still easily passed by AP2 (which is stupidly too common). Veil really only shines on Invulnerable saves.

Well, on a basic terminator it might make them playable. 2+ re-roll vs. anything AP3+ is pretty invulnerable, and even the humble 5++ turns into something vaguely acceptable when you get to roll it twice. It’s not unstoppable deathstar level of survivable, but decent.

Yeah, but my Honor Guard are only rocking a 2+ and no Invulnerable. This is why I don't get why people are saying this makes Centstar so much worse. A 2+ is too easy to get past, rerollable or not. But, then again, I don't fully understand Centstar. Now, if someone had a way to add an Invul to Honor Guard or Cents, this power becomes more potent. It does have me looking at Terminators as a Pedro Kantor escort, but without the anility to Deep Strike him, he is better off with his Honor Guard. Why can't Honor Guard take Storm Shields again?!

It may make me remake them into Vanguard Veterans with Storm Shields, though. 3+/3++ would be a pretty good setup for this power.

Cent star regularly includes 1+ characters with invulnerable saves. Hence, the star part.

 pretre wrote:
Cent star regularly includes 1+ characters with invulnerable saves. Hence, the star part.

So the one character just tanks all the wounds? I suppose poor Pedro could be the whipping boy for my Honor Guard. 2+/4++ rerollable with FNP is pretty darn good. I just hate risking him being wiped out due to him making all sorts of magic happen.

yeah, Kaldor Draigo with a 2++ Rerollable is why people are complaining.

 Swampmist wrote:
yeah, Kaldor Draigo with a 2++ Rerollable is why people are complaining.

Gotcha. I would be too. Draigo is worth complaining about anyway though.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Swampmist wrote:
yeah, Kaldor Draigo with a 2++ Rerollable is why people are complaining.

Gotcha. I would be too. Draigo is worth complaining about anyway though.

and now you can roll on Geomancy for healz and probably T buffs

 Swampmist wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Swampmist wrote:
yeah, Kaldor Draigo with a 2++ Rerollable is why people are complaining.

Gotcha. I would be too. Draigo is worth complaining about anyway though.

and now you can roll on Geomancy for healz and probably T buffs

I am hoping Geomancy gives me a good way to keep my drop podding PedroHGLibrarian alive. As of right now, Endurance or Invisibility are the way to go.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Swampmist wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Swampmist wrote:
yeah, Kaldor Draigo with a 2++ Rerollable is why people are complaining.

Gotcha. I would be too. Draigo is worth complaining about anyway though.

and now you can roll on Geomancy for healz and probably T buffs

I am hoping Geomancy gives me a good way to keep my drop podding PedroHGLibrarian alive. As of right now, Endurance or Invisibility are the way to go.

i just want an Earthquake spell

I don't. still have PTSD as a nid player from old JotWW.

 gigasnail wrote:
I don't. still have PTSD as a nid player from old JotWW.

I missed that phase of the game, so I can just go on looking foward to having a ThunderHammer bearing IH LIbby with Earth Powers

EDIT: Honestly, I'm really hoping that the IH formation just gives us a 5+++ without increasing the bonus from a pre-existing FNP. Would make Adeptus Footslogus a fun, and possibly legit, build .

So Gdub has figured out a way to sell one plastic space marine with a bolter for $30US?

*slow clap*

 Phydox wrote:
So Gdub has figured out a way to sell one plastic space marine with a bolter for $30US?

*slow clap*

It was the natural progression of things with the $30USD Clampack characters.

Angels of Death teaser...




The Webstore Blog confirms the Skyhammer Annihilation Force (Boo!) and Contemptor Dreadnought Squadrons (Yay!) are in the supplement.

So this basically confirms that the detachments are the Anvil Strike Force (which is all vehicles), Talon Strike Force, Scarblade Strike Force, and the Sternhammer Strike Force (they could have been lying like they did in the past in WD). The eleven Kauyon formations and the Skyhammer Annihilation Force leaves room for two more formations. One is probably a unique Battle Demi-Company for Imperial Fists by that isn't a guarantee. Ultimately we know most everything the book has now.

Why would Imperial Fists need a unique demi-company? They're as codex-adherent as Ultramarines.

Psykana Librarius: these new psychic powers, usable by all Chapters, have Jamie rather excited – particularly the fiendish Technomancy Discipline, which is all about domination of machinery, both yours and your opponent’s. This Discipline’s Primaris Power is able to force enemy units to fire only Snap Shots, or even take them over entirely: pick the biggest tank your enemy has and turn it against them! Another standout, Warpmetal Armour, adds Armour Values to units on a successful roll. Apply that to Josh’s favourites, the Dreadnought Squadron – you’re going to stomp all over your foe. Dirty, filthy rules which we love!

...I really, really hope that Warpmetal Armour is a Malediction.

Because I don't really see that as being great.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
Why would Imperial Fists need a unique demi-company? They're as codex-adherent as Ultramarines.

I don't know if they need one, but they said they are getting one. So if they don't, GW lied. I could see them having a detachment that has auxiliaries that play to their strengths, such as a non-formation Aux made of Centurion War Suit squads.