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When comes to Warcaster, I thnk you just do more of a dojo approach. Yes teach the game basics but as the player grows, as an EO, also see yourself as a coach.

Try to coach games rather than play games with players who you are going against as a community leader.

There is alot of nuance in PP games in general and I think the failure is when you do something cool, dont be afraid to hit the rewind button and coach the opponent on how they could do it too.

Making it a learning experience rather than a competitive experience when it comes to players playing agianst you and the community will shine with stars in the end.

 Overread wrote:


GW has done it by sinking money into marketing and promoting separate versions of the game. Warcry, Killteam etc... are marketed as much as the core game. This is something new and its worked well; in the past we had Killteam but it was side rules in the rule book and it wasn't marketed at all really - same as PP it was there as an option but it wasn't focused on.

I think this is the best thing GW has done for the hobby/industry for quite some time. Shows you can use the same models for lots of different games and people will buy them and use them in various games as some of their smaller games does seam to be doing quite well. I don't even play GW games and I have some Warcry stuff as I like the more sword and sorcery look of some of the warbands in it.

I agree I think its a really smart move and it actually hits two core markets.

1) Newbies

2) Oldies

Newbies need those smaller games to tease them in. One of the biggest barriers of mature wargames is that most experienced players have big armies and they want to play big games and the newbie sees those big armies and wants to join in. Old World was really brutal with it as below 1K it didn't really work well and even until 1.5K it was a bit wobbly for some armies. That's a big barrier just to buy and build let alone paint

Warcry and Killteam are small and fast; Underworld is faster still you can clip and play in 5 mins for a basic getting started.


Oldies might have a big collection but can have less time or less time in single big blocks. So suddenly a big promoted game like Warcry which can be setup, started and played out really fast works great; underworld again works even better for speed. You get to engage with varied models nad get some gaming but without the 3-5 hours of a big 1K or 2K game.

The push to fit/glueless models some of the games use were a great idea. Same quality/material for the entry points and a fraction of the effort that you'll still want to use as you buy more models. Unlike the PP battleboxes where you wanted to dump what was in them once you bought into the game more.

Though the 2 player starter set contents were actually pretty nice material.

Pushfit also let them market to boardgame markets outside of just wargamers. Which is a good way to slowly branch out with a core product into other sectors to draw in customers.


GW is nothing if not creative and dedicated (esp right now) to recruiting and reaching out to new customers. It's honestly something I think a lot of people don't really appreciate. A huge amount of the wargamer market which isn't GW are just GW customers who have branched out to try other things. Sadly most other firms don't have GW's resources to do as much direct marketing and outreach. Certainly in the UK I'd wager the majority of wargamers (who aren't historical which seems to be its own thing like Hornby and such); likely came to it through GW in some form.

FOUR DAYS LEFT!!! I am not exaggerating when I say that this terrain STL kickstarter is the most incredible third party offering for Warmachine and Hordes players in all of mk3. I am absolutely floored by the style, the quality, and the usability of this terrain. Come read my full review and then spend the meager $20 required to own STLs for over 20 incredibly thematic pieces of terrain for the Iron Kingdoms.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tomwiggins/bulldozer-terrain-0

https://www.loswarmachine.com/reviews/2021/8/10/bulldozer-terrain-kickstarter-review

 Overread wrote:
I agree I think its a really smart move and it actually hits two core markets.

1) Newbies

2) Oldies

Newbies need those smaller games to tease them in. One of the biggest barriers of mature wargames is that most experienced players have big armies and they want to play big games and the newbie sees those big armies and wants to join in. Old World was really brutal with it as below 1K it didn't really work well and even until 1.5K it was a bit wobbly for some armies. That's a big barrier just to buy and build let alone paint

Warcry and Killteam are small and fast; Underworld is faster still you can clip and play in 5 mins for a basic getting started.


Oldies might have a big collection but can have less time or less time in single big blocks. So suddenly a big promoted game like Warcry which can be setup, started and played out really fast works great; underworld again works even better for speed. You get to engage with varied models nad get some gaming but without the 3-5 hours of a big 1K or 2K game.

Reason why I shifted to using Riot Quest as the primary game. It is fast, fun, gives the basic mechanics of movement, actions, and synergies. At the same time it builds my focus on basically non-GW players. Cannabilizing from GW player base or high hopes of "dominating GW" is like conspiracy theory stuff. That is like a small CCG company "dominating" Hasbaro. Piazo is doing some good moves with Pathfinder, but it isn't going to since DnD. Riot Quest is more about getting new players who never would wargame in their life to get into the hobby. Warmachine Brawlmachine format is more for people who play RQ but want more of the wargame feel.

No game can be all things to all people. While most people play DnD, some people are into Pathfinder, or Shadowrun, or World of Darkness. GW games will always be GW games so the focus should never be on canniblizing from a player base who enjoys the GW rules and grim dark aesthetic. Instead the focus needs to be on people who have never wargamed, and aren't interested in the grimdark or almost Magic the Gathering aesthetic of 40k or AoS. There will always be people who will choose Star Wars or Battletech over 40k on just an thematic or aesthetic level alone.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 LoS_Jaden wrote:
FOUR DAYS LEFT!!! I am not exaggerating when I say that this terrain STL kickstarter is the most incredible third party offering for Warmachine and Hordes players in all of mk3. I am absolutely floored by the style, the quality, and the usability of this terrain. Come read my full review and then spend the meager $20 required to own STLs for over 20 incredibly thematic pieces of terrain for the Iron Kingdoms.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tomwiggins/bulldozer-terrain-0

https://www.loswarmachine.com/reviews/2021/8/10/bulldozer-terrain-kickstarter-review

This is a really great project. I don't have a 3D printer but I do like that they are going to allow for print and sell once the KS is done.

Brawlmachine changed the way hundreds of people play Warmachine. It only made sense to break out the bigger guns and go for broke with Clashmachine, the new 50 point format in Alpha from Line of Sight! Come check it out!

https://www.loswarmachine.com/clashmachine/2021/8/13/clashmachine-alpha-rules-announcement

 LoS_Jaden wrote:
Brawlmachine changed the way hundreds of people play Warmachine. It only made sense to break out the bigger guns and go for broke with Clashmachine, the new 50 point format in Alpha from Line of Sight! Come check it out!

https://www.loswarmachine.com/clashmachine/2021/8/13/clashmachine-alpha-rules-announcement

YESSSSSSSSSSS 50 point support at last

Started listening to the podcast on this but got sidetracked. Very excited to see what the plan is.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Question 1:

2) A player may field a maximum of:
one colossal or gargantuan
one battle engine
one battle engine caster
one structure.

is that one of each of the following or one huge base total?

The army building rules are more or less EXACTLY what I've been hoping for and really loving the direction of the scenario and terrain elements. Going to have to give this a try.

That would be one of each type, you could potentially have a battle engine, structure, colossal, and battle engine caster in your list

An alpha test game for Clashmachine featuring Krueger 2 vs. Haley 3!

https://www.loswarmachine.com/clashmachine/2021/8/17/clashmachine-alpha-test-game-krueger-2-bones-vs-haley-3-storm-division-warmachine-and-hordes-battle-report

I kicked off a new article series aimed at making some off meta models into viable lists, come see what’s getting played in Kitchen Table Warmachine!

https://www.loswarmachine.com/theory-and-tactics/2021/8/18/kitchen-table-warmachine-kromac-2

Content with Krugeur and Kromac ? You cheeky cheeky tease

https://home.privateerpress.com/2021/08/24/nothing-to-see-here/?fbclid=IwAR2LQQcJeLHTjSOw_0A505q58BbYhoulX5YvY8_9PqkJkBKZcUBpTw2c0zA

Well, I know some people wanted PP to tell us what is going on, so Matt Wilson assaulted his keyboard in a pretty wordy Insider.

Adapting to the modern age is always a good thing, even when it is a decade late.

Kaptajn Congoboy wrote:
https://home.privateerpress.com/2021/08/24/nothing-to-see-here/?fbclid=IwAR2LQQcJeLHTjSOw_0A505q58BbYhoulX5YvY8_9PqkJkBKZcUBpTw2c0zA

Well, I know some people wanted PP to tell us what is going on, so Matt Wilson assaulted his keyboard in a pretty wordy Insider.

What really wasn't clear for me is if PP are switching to Kickstarter for the next round of wm/h releases i.e. The Orgoth? I know RQ and Warcaster have been KS for the pre-orders prior to hitting normal distro (for shop that want it...). But the insider sort of intimates that all future releases will be KS which would include Orgoth......

If WM/H was to go KS for its releases I think that would kill off any enthusiasm the remaining stores here in the UK who stock PP have. Iv notes that many like Firestorm etc have removed all PP products from their front pages while Malifaux, Infinity etc are sill there.

I think the removal from front page just shows that its no longer the big seller it was a few years back.

That said PP's KS so far hasn't been too bad, the prices through the KS for Warcaster are pretty much the same as those you'd get through the store (stores might even be a touch cheaper)

Kaptajn Congoboy wrote:
https://home.privateerpress.com/2021/08/24/nothing-to-see-here/?fbclid=IwAR2LQQcJeLHTjSOw_0A505q58BbYhoulX5YvY8_9PqkJkBKZcUBpTw2c0zA

Well, I know some people wanted PP to tell us what is going on, so Matt Wilson assaulted his keyboard in a pretty wordy Insider.

Interesting.

Orgoth do sound like an interesting idea.

One thing.

4,000 views

In terms of the conversation regarding the decline of pp, is that number significant or misleading, especially when compared to the views gw stuff gets?

well, most of the stuff gets re-posted to the various facebook groups and elsewhere, so there could well be people reading it there instead

Deadnight wrote:

Kaptajn Congoboy wrote:
https://home.privateerpress.com/2021/08/24/nothing-to-see-here/?fbclid=IwAR2LQQcJeLHTjSOw_0A505q58BbYhoulX5YvY8_9PqkJkBKZcUBpTw2c0zA

Well, I know some people wanted PP to tell us what is going on, so Matt Wilson assaulted his keyboard in a pretty wordy Insider.

Interesting.

Orgoth do sound like an interesting idea.

One thing.

4,000 views

In terms of the conversation regarding the decline of pp, is that number significant or misleading, especially when compared to the views gw stuff gets?

Their KS campaigns rarely top 2000 backers.
I’d say their community has shrunk by an order of magnitude at the least.

At this point I guess they can't afford the cost and risk of a regular release which involves investment first and profits maybe later. New projects have to be paid for in advance by KS backers.

I'd have expected more discussion of the factors within PP that caused the complete collapse of their community, but it's absent any of that. If your company has experienced such a complete and comprehensive collapse under your watch, self reflection might be helpful in figuring out how to move forward.

Ah well. I'm finishing painting the PP stuff I have and I'll use it in Dungeons and Dragons and Age of Fantasy. Some day Mk2 will be a retro game and I'll be able to find people to play with.

 Da Boss wrote:
I'd have expected more discussion of the factors within PP that caused the complete collapse of their community, but it's absent any of that. If your company has experienced such a complete and comprehensive collapse under your watch, self reflection might be helpful in figuring out how to move forward.

Ah well. I'm finishing painting the PP stuff I have and I'll use it in Dungeons and Dragons and Age of Fantasy. Some day Mk2 will be a retro game and I'll be able to find people to play with.

Part of dealing with an problem is admitting/realising there is a problem in the first place.

PPs management and parts of the community itself doesn't think there is any sort of issue at all.

A lot of companies also don't like to admit to weakness/failure. It's the same as people too - they'd rather either not address it openly or move past it.

 Da Boss wrote:
I'd have expected more discussion of the factors within PP that caused the complete collapse of their community, but it's absent any of that. If your company has experienced such a complete and comprehensive collapse under your watch, self reflection might be helpful in figuring out how to move forward.

Ah well. I'm finishing painting the PP stuff I have and I'll use it in Dungeons and Dragons and Age of Fantasy. Some day Mk2 will be a retro game and I'll be able to find people to play with.

You don't know Matt Wilson at all. People could go on for pages and pages about the internal personal trials and tribulations of the staff and ownership, and how it has influenced the game. An early ex-employee told me back in 2004 that Privateer Press is successful despite Privateer Press. It was inevitable that it would collapse under the exploding popularity and management of the game. The state of the game is a far cry from where it was back in late 00's.

I'm sure there's self-reflection on their failure. I don't think any company does such things in public, though.

Probably worth mentioning that they're planning a Monsterpocalypse Kickstarter:

https://home.privateerpress.com/2021/08/26/privateer-press-announces-joining-forces-with-mythic-games-for-new-monsterpocalypse-big-box-game/

 TheWaspinator wrote:
Probably worth mentioning that they're planning a Monsterpocalypse Kickstarter:

https://home.privateerpress.com/2021/08/26/privateer-press-announces-joining-forces-with-mythic-games-for-new-monsterpocalypse-big-box-game/

interesting stuff. A boardgame version would certainly open up sales options in new locations, and depending on price maybe be a nice way for people to bulk out factions or whatnot i guess, i'm not super familiar with the game though i've been often impressed with the models for it

I've dabbled a bit in it, yeah the models are pretty cool. How applicable this will be to people with existing collections depends on price and what exactly they offer.

I'm glad that this is still the same rules version. If they split the community, now THAT would be a mistake.

I have some Monpoc stuff and it is very much a game you can play as a rock-em-sock-em-kaiju funtimes game or go super serious into its competitive aspects.

It also seems to be relatively popular and Mythic's audience might help it grow.