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GW Battleforces announced on Thursday (18th November)  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in ca
Charing Cold One Knight





 Overread wrote:
I think the key is that when these were in the £100 bracket it was a hobby price with a discount that was more in peoples christmas impulse purchase range. Adding another £30 on top is pushing it a little more out of that impulse christmas hobby price. Esp when you consider from 3rd parties a £100 with 20% discount drops to a more comfortable £80

This year and last I've notice, in the UK, more of a discount spread and even within stores some things are and some things are not discounted or are discounted by different values. Even with a 20% drop a £130 box drops to £106.


Definitely. If the boxes were 100 pounds I'd probably end up buying two. At 130 I will suffice with only one.
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Gathering the Informations.

I kind of feel like that might be the intention.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

They want you to buy less?

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in gb
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





 Dysartes wrote:
JWBS wrote:
No he's factored in the discount with his initial numbers. If he had written the figures as a discount price and discount saving and said "2 free boxes" it would have been the same thing, the 2 boxes was the operative part.


£196.50 is the RRP of the contents of the Slaanesh box - check GW.com for confirmation.
£130 is the leaked price of the box (as per DaveC's post), which I also presume is RRP
As the Mad Doc pointed out, you can save more than the £66.50 by buying from somewhere who will sell the £130 box at a discount.

Now, if you normally buy from a discounter, you might find that the "2 boxes" thing still holds, but if you compare what you might get it at from the likes of Element (probably 20% off?), you're looking at a further saving compared to RRP of £26 - which isn't far off another box itself.

Mad Doc Grotsnik - am I right regarding the point you were making?

This makes no sense unless you habitually buy from GW but on this one occasion have decided to buy the box from a discounter. Who does this apply to exactly? Anyone? Exceedingly unlikely. It's akin to telling yourself you get two free Intercessors with each box of eight that you buy whenever you buy them from your usual discounter, despite the fact that you only ever buy from that discounter. To put it another way (actually the same way as I did in the previous reply but slightly reworded), Overread could have said "£160 at £104 means a saving of £43, or two free boxes", and Grotsnik could not have replied the way he did, even though the two statements are effectively equivalent. In yet other words, the "You get an extra discount when buying from a discounter" an entirely redundant statement. I forget the proper word for it but there is one.

/Edit - it's tautology (surprised I remembered that).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/29 14:21:38


 
   
Made in de
Powerful Ushbati






 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They want you to buy less?


That might even be a plausible strategy. If they can't or won't make enough stock to satisfy demand, they get immediately more revenue out of the same stock if they raise prices accordingly. If as a side effect, each customer only buys one box, you get the beginnings of an army in the hands of more people who will hopefully complement their discount box with further purchases at full price.

Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone? 
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Gathering the Informations.

Not to mention it blows away the "don't bother buying things individually, just buy the discount bundles and flog the things you don't want" comments that always crop up.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They want you to buy less?



It might not be their intention, but its not actually a bad thing for GW. In general the popular boxes will sell out before everyone has what they want. If each person goes from wanting 2 boxes to 1 box then GW sells the same total number of boxes, however double their market gets the box they want. Therefore whlist everyone dislikes the higher price, a greater percentage end up owning a box and thus happy.


GW right now are in a position where demand and supply are on a knife edge and popular things more often tip over into undersupply. So yeah right now GW has no qualms about if some are buying a little less individually, because its made up with more customers overall.



Sure sometimes they get it wrong like with Dominion, but honestly when you step back that's an enigma compared to the normal for most things. Heck we only really hear complaints about Dominion because 3rd parties (who have tight margins) were pushed into buying more (likely as a result of Indomitus selling so well the year before) and then wound up holding stock that wasn't shifting fast enough. It's not that dominion doesn't sell, it just isn't selling fast enough for 3rd parties on tight margins who had to then sell at near wholesale price to shift that stock to free up money to buy other stock that would turn a profit in a shorter time frame. Which is honestly often an issue with many3rd party stores and wargame stuff. A new MTG or Yugio set will fly off the shelves at volume faster than wargame stuff typically. The only time that likely was different was last year when lockdowns shut down GW supply entirely and any 3rd party with an online store and the ability to ship stuff suddenly got increased demand. Same as when a local supermarket shuts down for a few days and everyone suddenly uses the local stores and strips them of stock.

Print Hunter
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Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Germany

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They want you to buy less?


They want you to buy less discount boxes, so you buy more overpriced things.

"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They want you to buy less?


They want you to buy less discount boxes, so you buy more overpriced things.


I mean GW can do that anyway without changing the prices, they just change how much they produce

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Made in ie
Fixture of Dakka






Word is these are very limited in numbers so getting hold of one could be difficult.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




JWBS wrote:
 Dysartes wrote:
JWBS wrote:
No he's factored in the discount with his initial numbers. If he had written the figures as a discount price and discount saving and said "2 free boxes" it would have been the same thing, the 2 boxes was the operative part.


£196.50 is the RRP of the contents of the Slaanesh box - check GW.com for confirmation.
£130 is the leaked price of the box (as per DaveC's post), which I also presume is RRP
As the Mad Doc pointed out, you can save more than the £66.50 by buying from somewhere who will sell the £130 box at a discount.

Now, if you normally buy from a discounter, you might find that the "2 boxes" thing still holds, but if you compare what you might get it at from the likes of Element (probably 20% off?), you're looking at a further saving compared to RRP of £26 - which isn't far off another box itself.

Mad Doc Grotsnik - am I right regarding the point you were making?

This makes no sense unless you habitually buy from GW but on this one occasion have decided to buy the box from a discounter. Who does this apply to exactly? Anyone? Exceedingly unlikely. It's akin to telling yourself you get two free Intercessors with each box of eight that you buy whenever you buy them from your usual discounter, despite the fact that you only ever buy from that discounter. To put it another way (actually the same way as I did in the previous reply but slightly reworded), Overread could have said "£160 at £104 means a saving of £43, or two free boxes", and Grotsnik could not have replied the way he did, even though the two statements are effectively equivalent. In yet other words, the "You get an extra discount when buying from a discounter" an entirely redundant statement. I forget the proper word for it but there is one.


You're right that it's unfair to compare it like that, but it's also unfair to go "well, if you buy from a discounter there's no extra gain" as that's not the whole story either. These boxes are popular but will generally get the full 20% off at a discounter as there's something of a race to the bottom as they're so high profile. That's not guaranteed year round.

Just looking at the Necron box, as that's the one I might get, and at Element, as that's where I would get it, everything is 15% off but not everything is in stock. I could probably get it all at 20% off buying at different places, but then I'd get stung for postage. If the usual suspects do a 20% discount on this it'll probably be a better deal overall, and a lot simpler.
   
Made in fi
5th God of Chaos (O'rly?)





 Dysartes wrote:
JWBS wrote:
No he's not getting any more than 2 free boxes if buying from discounter.

Compared to RRP he would be.


So he can't get discount on solo boxes?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Blackie wrote:
2 free boxes out of a battleforce is the bare minimum to even consider buying one of those. With a smaller discount I can't even imagine why someone would want to buy a battleforce instead of the separate kits.


Pay more for same? Why you would do that?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/29 14:27:30


2022 painted/bought: 227/322 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

tneva82 wrote:


Pay more for same? Why you would do that?



These boxed sets hit at Christmas, a typically expensive time for many buying gifts for others and such along with heating and other things that send bills up. So part of the desire to buy them is how much they save you in the long run. If the saving is very good then people are much more tempted to budget for them in the short term as the long term saving is worth it. However if they are only a small saving then, whilst it might cost more in the long run, its easier on their finances ot just spread the slightly increased cost out over that long period.

It's all about having enough discount for people to consider it worth an impulse high value single purchase.

Especially as popular ones are likely to go out of stock pretty fast and it can sometimes be very hard to judge which ones will and won't go out of stock quick. Eg the Necron might go out of stock super fast because Necrons are currently one of the big factions GW is focusing on from Indomitus and the Imperium Magazine; however it might also be that people collecting Necrons are burned out; or consider that Imperium offers better gains and spent their money there instead of on the Battleforce. So it could sell superfast or it might be there's so much discount necron stuff that it doesn't really shift at all.


Slaves to Darkness had one that lasted ages a few years back despit being really good because they had had no rules update for AoS at the time and were one of the last forces to get a Battletome and update. So again an army that might not be a current focus could wind up less popular en-mass. Slaanesh could do that - lots of very new models in the set (honestly the whole thing is new models!) but have all the fans bought them already and are the less than top-rate rules in the battletome going to sway the masses away? Hard to say so you generally have to go on the "it will be popular" assumption.

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Made in us
Guardsman with Flashlight




South Africa

New models out next year

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/11/29/give-your-gang-a-few-underhive-style-home-comforts-with-the-slopper-and-the-scabber/
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







Not sure about the Slopper, but the Scabber is a fun sculpt.

2021 Plog - Here we go again... - my fifth attempt at a Dakka PLOG

My [url=https://pileofpotential.com/dysartes]Pile of Potential[/url - updates ongoing...

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 Kanluwen wrote:
This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.

Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army... 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

I love those! It's also really neat to see GW releasing that kind of model that isn't a warrior by design. Makes me wonder if they are considering making a full RPG style of Necromunda in the future not just a full combat game.


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MESBG Terrain bundle will be webstore exclusive :((((

   
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 CragHack wrote:
MESBG Terrain bundle will be webstore exclusive :((((


Noooooooooooooooooo!!
   
Made in au
Pustulating Plague Priest




Buying less from GW doesn’t benefit GW if that lesser amount goes from two boxes to zero boxes.

There’s a difference between having a hobby and being a narcissist.  
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Joyboozer wrote:
Buying less from GW doesn’t benefit GW if that lesser amount goes from two boxes to zero boxes.
Nah man. They want us to buy less. It's their entire strategy. I believe it's a homeopathic thing.


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Crazed Flagellant




New Jersey

Have we got US prices yet? I know the Brits got theirs..
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Gathering the Informations.

Joyboozer wrote:
Buying less from GW doesn’t benefit GW if that lesser amount goes from two boxes to zero boxes.

By that same vein, being able to buy zero boxes from GW doesn't benefit GW if that person just doesn't buy anything either.


I get that this is a hard concept to grasp, but making these boxes less attractive as a "spam box to build army" option and instead trying to aim them as a "big item to start an army in one purchase" option can result in more sales by virtue of them actually getting into the hands of people interested in the whole of the set rather than those who tended to buy these kinds of sets in bulk and then flog whatever bits they didn't want on eBay or whatever spot they choose to sell it at.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 GrosseSax wrote:
Have we got US prices yet? I know the Brits got theirs..

$210 bracket, from what DaveC said.

It feels about right TBH. Seems like there's a roughly $90-$100 USD savings in each set, usually resulting in a character and a unit/vehicle box for free.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/29 23:05:00


 
   
Made in gb
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





 Kanluwen wrote:
Joyboozer wrote:
Buying less from GW doesn’t benefit GW if that lesser amount goes from two boxes to zero boxes.

By that same vein, being able to buy zero boxes from GW doesn't benefit GW if that person just doesn't buy anything either.


I get that this is a hard concept to grasp, but making these boxes less attractive as a "spam box to build army" option and instead trying to aim them as a "big item to start an army in one purchase" option can result in more sales by virtue of them actually getting into the hands of people interested in the whole of the set rather than those who tended to buy these kinds of sets in bulk and then flog whatever bits they didn't want on eBay or whatever spot they choose to sell it at.

You know that their margins, even on this "value" box, are substantial right? And that every sale of any of these boxes, in a key time of the financial year, a time when people are more likely to buy on impulse or, in many case, offload their savings into something they've been waiting for, even planning for, is a win for them? In these complicated times of (current year) where every short term gain is something for a public company to cherish and flaunt? You know that selling 20000 of these is far and away preferable to selling 10000 of these, assuming that they are capable of producing and distributing 20000? (I'm guessing you do but judging from your comment here I can't be certain).
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




JWBS wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Joyboozer wrote:
Buying less from GW doesn’t benefit GW if that lesser amount goes from two boxes to zero boxes.

By that same vein, being able to buy zero boxes from GW doesn't benefit GW if that person just doesn't buy anything either.


I get that this is a hard concept to grasp, but making these boxes less attractive as a "spam box to build army" option and instead trying to aim them as a "big item to start an army in one purchase" option can result in more sales by virtue of them actually getting into the hands of people interested in the whole of the set rather than those who tended to buy these kinds of sets in bulk and then flog whatever bits they didn't want on eBay or whatever spot they choose to sell it at.

You know that their margins, even on this "value" box, are substantial right? And that every sale of any of these boxes, in a key time of the financial year, a time when people are more likely to buy on impulse or, in many case, offload their savings into something they've been waiting for, even planning for, is a win for them? In these complicated times of (current year) where every short term gain is something for a public company to cherish and flaunt? You know that selling 20000 of these is far and away preferable to selling 10000 of these, assuming that they are capable of producing and distributing 20000? (I'm guessing you do but judging from your comment here I can't be certain).


bottom line is profit. They will put out enough to create demand and generate interest. They make more profit selling individual squads/ boxes. They make even more profit selling them in the USA where they make an extra 30% off the bat.
   
Made in gb
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





angel of death 007 wrote:

bottom line is profit. They will put out enough to create demand and generate interest. They make more profit selling individual squads/ boxes. They make even more profit selling them in the USA where they make an extra 30% off the bat.

Of course they do. That's some dream scenario though where all of their customers just happily drop whatever money they have on whatever GW are offering. I know that we joke about this being the case but in reality it's not. Fundamentally they have to offer a range of products that will appeal to as many people as possible. If they could sell an infinite number of Primaris Intercessor boxes at $100 a go from now until eternity that's probably what they'd do. But that ain't gonna work, so that being said, if they can create a nice windfall for Q4 Xmas21 by selling 100,000 various 40k super saver boxes at 60% margin, rather than the 50% margin or whatever they usually get for the rest of the year, and that's potentially their best shot at pumping the profits, they'll do that instead. I don't know if that's their best option, none of us do (very few of us are economists or related disciplines, and none of us have access to the data that would steer us on the correct course). These Dakka theories that crop up though, that it's some sort nefarious, ingenious, yet simultaneously incompetently enacted plans that happen around this time every year - that ain't it man. They supply, we consume, it's a two way street, always has been that way, and it mostly doesn't play out the way that the usual suspects, the Dakka grievance peddlers as it were, would have us believe.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/30 03:19:51


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




JWBS wrote:
angel of death 007 wrote:

bottom line is profit. They will put out enough to create demand and generate interest. They make more profit selling individual squads/ boxes. They make even more profit selling them in the USA where they make an extra 30% off the bat.

Of course they do. That's some dream scenario though where all of their customers just happily drop whatever money they have on whatever GW are offering. I know that we joke about this being the case but in reality it's not. Fundamentally they have to offer a range of products that will appeal to as many people as possible. If they could sell an infinite number of Primaris Intercessor boxes at $100 a go from now until eternity that's probably what they'd do. But that ain't gonna work, so that being said, if they can create a nice windfall for Q4 Xmas21 by selling 100,000 various 40k super saver boxes at 60% margin, rather than the 50% margin or whatever they usually get for the rest of the year, and that's potentially their best shot at pumping the profits, they'll do that instead. I don't know if that's their best option, none of us do (very few of us are economists or related disciplines, and none of us have access to the data that would steer us on the correct course). These Dakka theories that crop up though, that it's some sort nefarious, ingenious, yet simultaneously incompetently enacted plans that happen around this time every year - that ain't it man. They supply, we consume, it's a two way street, always has been that way, and it mostly doesn't play out the way that the usual suspects, the Dakka grievance peddlers as it were, would have us believe.


Their easiest way is to simply make all the battleforces only available through their website. That way they get very close to 100% profit, aside from free shipping. I see them transitioning into this for limited edition sets and battleforces in the future.
   
Made in gb
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





They'll likely lose me as a customer if they do that and I have to assume it will be the same for plenty of others. I'll admit, the boiling frog fallacy, where they just gradually pump over time and hope that I don't notice, yeah that works on me for a while, but eventually it collapses (as has been seen in the past). Pulling the rug from under me entirely though, that's when I walk away, no if's or but (done it before and will do it again - I was out of this hobby for a good while there and only came back when I noticed the good deals on SC boxes and the nice new minis that they were pushing in them).
   
Made in au
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Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

JWBS wrote:
Pulling the rug from under me entirely though, that's when I walk away, no if's or but...
Nah! That's when you give up your life on land, unfurl your sails, and take to the high seas.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in ie
Fixture of Dakka






GW have allocated 2 of each Battleforce to smaller retailers and 4 to larger retailers who might get some more if stock becomes available

https://twitter.com/AlchemistsWorks/status/1465271357453836290
   
Made in gb
Darkwolf



West Sussex, UK

 DaveC wrote:
GW have allocated 2 of each Battleforce to smaller retailers and 4 to larger retailers who might get some more if stock becomes available

https://twitter.com/AlchemistsWorks/status/1465271357453836290


That sounds similar to the initial allocation last year but a lot more stock was made available in the end.
   
 
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