Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 SHADOWSTRIKE1 wrote:
Hey guys,

Been a while since I checked in. Kind of took a break from things while I waited for Necron codex to be released. I saw that about a month ago it was announced to be "coming soon". Has there been any more talk on a potential release window? I want to continue building my army, but I want to get my hands on the codex and rule updates so I know what units I should focus on.

Probably sometime in march. There's not much information, sadly. GW is keeping it hidden.

Late march is the current best guess, unless we have the order wrong the it could be much sooner.

Id like to bring up the whole 'Gauss is worthless this edition' discussion.

Yes, Gauss was absolutely nuts in 7th. Where a squad of 20 Warriors was better anti-tank than dedicated anti-tank weaponry. However, this simply isnt the case anymore.
If we wanted an 8th ed equivilant of old Gauss, it would be something like 'every wound roll against a vehicle of 6+ ignores enemy armour and does d6 damage to targets with >10 wounds.' Absolutely nuts and no fun to play against.
However, lets compare it to other small arms weapons that other armies have: only Primaris Marines and Rubric Marines have got -ap on their basic weapons and they pay quite heavily for it.
But what is so special about a mear ap -1 on our basic weapons you might ask? I cant explain it to you unfortunately, but it has to do with the fact that lowering your opponents save equals to far more unsaved wounds mathwise.
Some quick mathhammering says that even a fictive BS 2+ bolter or S5 bolter is still inferior to S4 ap-1 vs a T4 3+ save enemy.
This explains why the Immortals Gauss Blaster is mathmatically so much better against all but 5+ save enemies.

Ap -1 on masse is rare folks. Most factions dont any ranged ap get it until you start looking at stuff like Krak Grenades, Autocannons etc.
The BIG problem why Gauss seems so underwhelming, is the fact that plasma spam is so common these days. When pretty much 1/3rd of the enemies arsenal is made up of Plasma, of course ap -1 looks 'weak'.
Tl;dr: Gauss is strong, its simply overshadowed by the massive amounts of Plasma most armies have atm.

It’s going to suck that our codex announcement will coincide with April Fools. All the spoiler trolling. :(

Doctoralex wrote:

Tl;dr: Gauss is strong, its simply overshadowed by the massive amounts of Plasma most armies have atm.

We don't need gauss to be a plasma equivalent, what we need is for gauss to be dangerous against all target profiles. AP -1 doesn't make us better at hurting vehicles, it just makes us better against MEQ. That's a problem because all of our good anti-vehicle weapons come on very expensive units, so it really waters down our anti-vehicle ability when we are paying twice to three times what it would cost for a devastator with a similar weapon. Since our big weapons come with such a big disadvantage, we need our weapons of the line to pull more weight. Which is what gauss has traditionally done, being able to wound anything and glance on 6s.

The die has already been cast, so this is idle speculation, but out of the suggestions offered, I think the best is to wound rolls of sixes increase the damage value by one. That would make Warriors and Immortals almost twice as dangerous for high toughness and wound models, without really affecting how dangerous they are against other units (since they are generally considered capable against MEQ, GEQ, and TEQ). That would also take a lot of heat off of our destroyers since we wouldn't be completely dependent on them for anti-vehicle work. Necrons are a delightfully weird army, but the way our units are configured means we have different requirements than other armies.

Im assuming how you guys are talking it'd mechanically be on a 6 it'd generate an additional mortal wound kind of like how Deathmarks synaptic Disintigrators work now.

If General gauss effectively becomes an ap SynD do you think the SynD would get a buff of some kind since deathmarks are an elite unit? Or do you think the benifits of it being sniper/rf counters the -1 ap?

Lothmar wrote:
Im assuming how you guys are talking it'd mechanically be on a 6 it'd generate an additional mortal wound kind of like how Deathmarks synaptic Disintigrators work now.

If General gauss effectively becomes a -1 ap SynD do you think the SynD would get a buff of some kind since deathmarks are an elite unit? Or do you think the benifits of it being sniper/rf counters the -1 ap?

Being a sniper weapon already gives an advantage.
Teleporting near a character and shooting him when he's surrounded by units is a pretty effective wake up call for the opponent. He now has to direct resources to deal with the sudden threat in his flank or lose a character.

Cth: True but i'll admit i'd be very interested if gauss gets changed to do mortal wounds as well in basically seeing Deathmarks with weapon options to take either flayers or blasters in lieu of the SynD if it remains a 'meh' stat weapon.

Cause honestly sometimes you dont need the sniper effect and have to use your DM's for unit clear to protect high value target etc. Thus if you dont need to pick out models having a decent sized squad of DM's with stronger weapon stats that can just plunk down in response to stuff would make them very~ very~ nasty counter units.

Doctoralex wrote:
Gauss was absolutely nuts in 7th. Where a squad of 20 Warriors was better anti-tank than dedicated anti-tank weaponry.

...
You're probably going to have to back that claim up with math, because it sounds like the type of thing you'd hear from people who don't know anything about Necrons complaining about Necrons.
(no 'Cron general worth their dice back then would have relied on Warriors for anti-AV duty).

 Grimgold wrote:

Doctoralex wrote:

Tl;dr: Gauss is strong, its simply overshadowed by the massive amounts of Plasma most armies have atm.

We don't need gauss to be a plasma equivalent, what we need is for gauss to be dangerous against all target profiles. AP -1 doesn't make us better at hurting vehicles, it just makes us better against MEQ. That's a problem because all of our good anti-vehicle weapons come on very expensive units, so it really waters down our anti-vehicle ability when we are paying twice to three times what it would cost for a devastator with a similar weapon. Since our big weapons come with such a big disadvantage, we need our weapons of the line to pull more weight. Which is what gauss has traditionally done, being able to wound anything and glance on 6s.

The die has already been cast, so this is idle speculation, but out of the suggestions offered, I think the best is to wound rolls of sixes increase the damage value by one. That would make Warriors and Immortals almost twice as dangerous for high toughness and wound models, without really affecting how dangerous they are against other units (since they are generally considered capable against MEQ, GEQ, and TEQ). That would also take a lot of heat off of our destroyers since we wouldn't be completely dependent on them for anti-vehicle work. Necrons are a delightfully weird army, but the way our units are configured means we have different requirements than other armies.

While I've never played against Necron's in 7th, I have no idea how people did it. Why even bother bringing vehicles against Necrons when even their most basic infantry could easily destroy it?

I simply cannot imagine that being fun to fight against. And as I recall, Necrons were considered OP and un-fun to play against 7th. I'd rather stay underpowered than non of my friends wanting to play against my favourite army.


But I digress. Yes, Gauss was a unique and flavourful rule back in the day. What armour can stop a weapon that destroys it on a molecular level after all? And while that may be translated to a 'boring' AP-1 on our basic guns or higher AP than most other anti-tank weaponry, it IS unique in that sense. (as i've mentioned in my previous post on how uncommon ap-1 on masse is.)

skoffs wrote:

Doctoralex wrote:
Gauss was absolutely nuts in 7th. Where a squad of 20 Warriors was better anti-tank than dedicated anti-tank weaponry.

...
You're probably going to have to back that claim up with math, because it sounds like the type of thing you'd hear from people who don't know anything about Necrons complaining about Necrons.
(no 'Cron general worth their dice back then would have relied on Warriors for anti-AV duty).

A blob of warriors could put out two or three glances a volley, more if they were in rapid fire range. Most vehicles only had three hull points so blobs could reliably take down a vehicle. It was similar to (but slightly better than) having a meltagun as a special weapon in a tac squad, which had a 50-50 chance of one shotting a vehicle if it got a pen hit. In general though nobody ran vehicles, so we didn't have to bring much to deal with vehicles. Monstrous creatures though, that was the real PITA.

Doctoralex wrote:

While I've never played against Necron's in 7th, I have no idea how people did it. Why even bother bringing vehicles against Necrons when even their most basic infantry could easily destroy it?

I simply cannot imagine that being fun to fight against. And as I recall, Necrons were considered OP and un-fun to play against 7th. I'd rather stay underpowered than non of my friends wanting to play against my favourite army.

But I digress. Yes, Gauss was a unique and flavourful rule back in the day. What armour can stop a weapon that destroys it on a molecular level after all? And while that may be translated to a 'boring' AP-1 on our basic guns or higher AP than most other anti-tank weaponry, it IS unique in that sense. (as i've mentioned in my previous post on how uncommon ap-1 on masse is.)

Well to be fair outside of gladius marines and the occasional wave serpent, nobody fielded vehicles because they were absolute crap. You also seem to have some spotty memory on things like the prevalence of d-weapons and drop pod grav marines that made Necrons look positively light on vehicles. people didn't bitch about necrons because we glanced their vehicles to death, they bitched because we ignored half the shots they threw at us. The search feature is your friend when making wild claims.

AP -1 isn't boring, I play primaris marines and love it on intercessors. The difference being that primaris marines don't depend on intercessors to take on vehicles the way necrons depend on warriors and immortals. We don't have devastators or hell blasters. Anything we have that has a high strength and good ap is north of 40 points per model. Surely you can see how that would be a problem right?

Necrons were the source of complaint in 7th only until the next codex was released. The complaints were more about people being unable to remove models by the handful than us being actually broken.

Doctoralex wrote:

 Grimgold wrote:

Doctoralex wrote:

Tl;dr: Gauss is strong, its simply overshadowed by the massive amounts of Plasma most armies have atm.

We don't need gauss to be a plasma equivalent, what we need is for gauss to be dangerous against all target profiles. AP -1 doesn't make us better at hurting vehicles, it just makes us better against MEQ. That's a problem because all of our good anti-vehicle weapons come on very expensive units, so it really waters down our anti-vehicle ability when we are paying twice to three times what it would cost for a devastator with a similar weapon. Since our big weapons come with such a big disadvantage, we need our weapons of the line to pull more weight. Which is what gauss has traditionally done, being able to wound anything and glance on 6s.

The die has already been cast, so this is idle speculation, but out of the suggestions offered, I think the best is to wound rolls of sixes increase the damage value by one. That would make Warriors and Immortals almost twice as dangerous for high toughness and wound models, without really affecting how dangerous they are against other units (since they are generally considered capable against MEQ, GEQ, and TEQ). That would also take a lot of heat off of our destroyers since we wouldn't be completely dependent on them for anti-vehicle work. Necrons are a delightfully weird army, but the way our units are configured means we have different requirements than other armies.

While I've never played against Necron's in 7th, I have no idea how people did it. Why even bother bringing vehicles against Necrons when even their most basic infantry could easily destroy it?

I simply cannot imagine that being fun to fight against. And as I recall, Necrons were considered OP and un-fun to play against 7th. I'd rather stay underpowered than non of my friends wanting to play against my favourite army.


But I digress. Yes, Gauss was a unique and flavourful rule back in the day. What armour can stop a weapon that destroys it on a molecular level after all? And while that may be translated to a 'boring' AP-1 on our basic guns or higher AP than most other anti-tank weaponry, it IS unique in that sense. (as i've mentioned in my previous post on how uncommon ap-1 on masse is.)

Please do show how easily destroyed vehicles were with math.

They really weren't. The only point they became mildly dangerous when the vehicle was 150+ points.

Gauss simply needs to become Rending, it would solve the problem.

Seriously, the whole "Warriors easily wipe all vehicles off the table!" claim was just something people who bought into false hype/didn't know anything about statistics clung to back then.
40 shots?
Good luck trying to get 20 Warriors into rapid fire range without losing any of them.
Then take however many you have left, shoot, and subtract from that all the misses.
= how many 6s to pen?
Then subtract from that the various types of saves available.

Yes, it could have happened, but if you were purposely pointing Warriors at vehicles you were either desperate or not a very good Necron player.

You know what was more effective at anti-AV duty?
Heavy Destroyers from a D.Cult.
That's why you regularly saw them on tables.

Now?
Neither option is good.

We goddamn better be getting some sort of answer to this next month.

1/9 shots would glance (2/3 * 1/6), so 20 shots is fairly reliably 2 glances. Destroyers were a little better, but not much, str 5 glanced on 6s against anything av 11 or better (so basically any vehicle), they had less shots but the destroyers got to reroll missed hits and wounds/armor pen rolls, so they edged out warriors just barely. I remember doing the math, and point for point, a squad of warriors was just about as good at killing land raiders as a dev squad with las cannons. We of course were not as good taking on rhinos, which gladius spam brough half a dozen of to each battle. Still Rhinos/razorbacks were mostly speed bumps, with a back armor of 10 even warriors could take them out in CC.

I think I ran heavy destroyers once on a lark, but outside of that they never got table time in 7th ed, they just didn't do anything better than regular destroyers. The reason you ran destroyers is that MEQ were everywhere with gladius spam, and destroyers made a mockery of marines with ap 3 and msm.

Of course that's all window dressing, 7th ed was really about the deathstars, and that got stupid quick.

 skoffs wrote:
Seriously, the whole "Warriors easily wipe all vehicles off the table!" claim was just something people who bought into false hype/didn't know anything about statistics clung to back then.
40 shots?
Good luck trying to get 20 Warriors into rapid fire range without losing any of them.
Then take however many you have left, shoot, and subtract from that all the misses.
= how many 6s to pen?
Then subtract from that the various types of saves available.

Yes, it could have happened, but if you were purposely pointing Warriors at vehicles you were either desperate or not a very good Necron player.

We goddamn better be getting some sort of answer to this next month.

Yes its called veil of darkness, teleport 20 warrior at 9'', rapid fire 40 shots. More or less 30 hits, 4-5 get 6s, even monoliths where what, 4HP? BOOM.

-Now the view that on 6s they make 2 wound gets us back to 8-10 wounds. But Warrior would become too dangerous vs elite infantry.
-If on 5+ they wound, the 30 or so shots would make... 10 wounds, but onlt on T8+ opponents. Big stuff.
-Then again just lower the prices. 60 warriors + a boat potentially make 140 AP-1 shots! Not bad.

Da W wrote:
Yes its called veil of darkness, teleport 20 warrior at 9'', rapid fire 40 shots.

What?
Anybody deep striking a unit footprint of 21 models in 7th edition with no way to mitigate scatter would soon lean how very foolish a move that would be.

But this has all already been mathhammered out back when it was relevant: Warriors were statistically inferior to other anti-AV options Necrons had at their disposal... back then.
AT THE MOMENT all of our options are inferior.
My biggest hope is that we get our premiere tank killers (Heavy D's) back in a form more fieldable than their current iteration.

Da W wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
Seriously, the whole "Warriors easily wipe all vehicles off the table!" claim was just something people who bought into false hype/didn't know anything about statistics clung to back then.
40 shots?
Good luck trying to get 20 Warriors into rapid fire range without losing any of them.
Then take however many you have left, shoot, and subtract from that all the misses.
= how many 6s to pen?
Then subtract from that the various types of saves available.

Yes, it could have happened, but if you were purposely pointing Warriors at vehicles you were either desperate or not a very good Necron player.

We goddamn better be getting some sort of answer to this next month.

Yes its called veil of darkness, teleport 20 warrior at 9'', rapid fire 40 shots. More or less 30 hits, 4-5 get 6s, even monoliths where what, 4HP? BOOM.

-Now the view that on 6s they make 2 wound gets us back to 8-10 wounds. But Warrior would become too dangerous vs elite infantry.
-If on 5+ they wound, the 30 or so shots would make... 10 wounds, but onlt on T8+ opponents. Big stuff.
-Then again just lower the prices. 60 warriors + a boat potentially make 140 AP-1 shots! Not bad.

You know scattered existed back then, right? Deep striking wasn't pin point accurate in earlier editions. That's purely an 8th edition thing.
If you try to land within 9" of an enemy with a 20 man unit, you are probably going to mishap.

As I wrote in another thread. Introduce a cheap stratagem that boosts gauss. An additional -1 rend would increase the damage on T7 3+ vehicles from Warriors with about 30% (less for Immortals). A +1 to wound would increase damage by about 50%. The +1 to wound would also give the Gauss cannon a well deserved boost.

Also an improvement/point drop on Destroyers and Vehicles should also help.

There's a rumor (earlier in this thread) that different Dynasties benefit from different weapons. That would make different builds viable if the traits are balanced.

 Cmdr_Sune wrote:
As I wrote in another thread. Introduce a cheap stratagem that boosts gauss. An additional -1 rend would increase the damage on T7 3+ vehicles from Warriors with about 30% (less for Immortals). A +1 to wound would increase damage by about 50%. The +1 to wound would also give the Gauss cannon a well deserved boost.

Also an improvement/point drop on Destroyers and Vehicles should also help.

There's a rumor (earlier in this thread) that different Dynasties benefit from different weapons. That would make different builds viable if the traits are balanced.

You see and therein lies one of my bugbears for this edition, I feel like we shouldn't require stratagems to be functional. Stratagems should be additional abilities, things that enhance an already capable force. When it becomes a crutch you end up with forces like the blood angels, who are great on a full tank of CP, but once that runs out they are kind of bad.

I wonder if buffing Quantum shielding to 'on a roll equal or lower than the dmg, its ignored' would be too strong or not.

If anything, i hope the Arks get boosted to a 3+ save.

 Grimgold wrote:

 Cmdr_Sune wrote:
As I wrote in another thread. Introduce a cheap stratagem that boosts gauss. An additional -1 rend would increase the damage on T7 3+ vehicles from Warriors with about 30% (less for Immortals). A +1 to wound would increase damage by about 50%. The +1 to wound would also give the Gauss cannon a well deserved boost.

Also an improvement/point drop on Destroyers and Vehicles should also help.

There's a rumor (earlier in this thread) that different Dynasties benefit from different weapons. That would make different builds viable if the traits are balanced.

You see and therein lies one of my bugbears for this edition, I feel like we shouldn't require stratagems to be functional. Stratagems should be additional abilities, things that enhance an already capable force. When it becomes a crutch you end up with forces like the blood angels, who are great on a full tank of CP, but once that runs out they are kind of bad.

You might be right, but that's how it works for other factions and is also the most likely way GW is going. I hope I'm proven wrong.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Da W wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
Seriously, the whole "Warriors easily wipe all vehicles off the table!" claim was just something people who bought into false hype/didn't know anything about statistics clung to back then.
40 shots?
Good luck trying to get 20 Warriors into rapid fire range without losing any of them.
Then take however many you have left, shoot, and subtract from that all the misses.
= how many 6s to pen?
Then subtract from that the various types of saves available.

Yes, it could have happened, but if you were purposely pointing Warriors at vehicles you were either desperate or not a very good Necron player.

We goddamn better be getting some sort of answer to this next month.

Yes its called veil of darkness, teleport 20 warrior at 9'', rapid fire 40 shots. More or less 30 hits, 4-5 get 6s, even monoliths where what, 4HP? BOOM.

-Now the view that on 6s they make 2 wound gets us back to 8-10 wounds. But Warrior would become too dangerous vs elite infantry.
-If on 5+ they wound, the 30 or so shots would make... 10 wounds, but onlt on T8+ opponents. Big stuff.
-Then again just lower the prices. 60 warriors + a boat potentially make 140 AP-1 shots! Not bad.

You know scattered existed back then, right? Deep striking wasn't pin point accurate in earlier editions. That's purely an 8th edition thing.
If you try to land within 9" of an enemy with a 20 man unit, you are probably going to mishap.

Funny i did this a few times then. Always had reclamation legion with a 20 warriors blobs around my overloard with a veil of darkness. You dispersed 2/3 of the time, and with that average 7'', can be more, can be less. That leave a whole lot of table room not to land in no-mans land and still have at least a few warriors in rapid fire range.
But what do i know. I just did it, not like i computed the mathhammer.

Da W wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Da W wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
Seriously, the whole "Warriors easily wipe all vehicles off the table!" claim was just something people who bought into false hype/didn't know anything about statistics clung to back then.
40 shots?
Good luck trying to get 20 Warriors into rapid fire range without losing any of them.
Then take however many you have left, shoot, and subtract from that all the misses.
= how many 6s to pen?
Then subtract from that the various types of saves available.

Yes, it could have happened, but if you were purposely pointing Warriors at vehicles you were either desperate or not a very good Necron player.

We goddamn better be getting some sort of answer to this next month.

Yes its called veil of darkness, teleport 20 warrior at 9'', rapid fire 40 shots. More or less 30 hits, 4-5 get 6s, even monoliths where what, 4HP? BOOM.

-Now the view that on 6s they make 2 wound gets us back to 8-10 wounds. But Warrior would become too dangerous vs elite infantry.
-If on 5+ they wound, the 30 or so shots would make... 10 wounds, but onlt on T8+ opponents. Big stuff.
-Then again just lower the prices. 60 warriors + a boat potentially make 140 AP-1 shots! Not bad.

You know scattered existed back then, right? Deep striking wasn't pin point accurate in earlier editions. That's purely an 8th edition thing.
If you try to land within 9" of an enemy with a 20 man unit, you are probably going to mishap.

Funny i did this a few times then. Always had reclamation legion with a 20 warriors blobs around my overloard with a veil of darkness. You dispersed 2/3 of the time, and with that average 7'', can be more, can be less. That leave a whole lot of table room not to land in no-mans land and still have at least a few warriors in rapid fire range.
But what do i know. I just did it, not like i computed the mathhammer.

20 Man squads of anything is just asking for a mishap. Terrain and other units getting in your way is shockingly likely. Especially with the chances that you'll end up scattering off.

Anecdotal evidence is the worst kind for fresh players to see.
"That player pulled off this statistically improbable thing, surely it'll work for me as well!"
Luckily deep strike mishaps are no longer a thing, but there are still plenty of similar traps for newbs to fall into in 8th.
I can only assume it's going to be the same once the codex drops.

Da W wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Da W wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
Seriously, the whole "Warriors easily wipe all vehicles off the table!" claim was just something people who bought into false hype/didn't know anything about statistics clung to back then.
40 shots?
Good luck trying to get 20 Warriors into rapid fire range without losing any of them.
Then take however many you have left, shoot, and subtract from that all the misses.
= how many 6s to pen?
Then subtract from that the various types of saves available.

Yes, it could have happened, but if you were purposely pointing Warriors at vehicles you were either desperate or not a very good Necron player.

We goddamn better be getting some sort of answer to this next month.

Yes its called veil of darkness, teleport 20 warrior at 9'', rapid fire 40 shots. More or less 30 hits, 4-5 get 6s, even monoliths where what, 4HP? BOOM.

-Now the view that on 6s they make 2 wound gets us back to 8-10 wounds. But Warrior would become too dangerous vs elite infantry.
-If on 5+ they wound, the 30 or so shots would make... 10 wounds, but onlt on T8+ opponents. Big stuff.
-Then again just lower the prices. 60 warriors + a boat potentially make 140 AP-1 shots! Not bad.

You know scattered existed back then, right? Deep striking wasn't pin point accurate in earlier editions. That's purely an 8th edition thing.
If you try to land within 9" of an enemy with a 20 man unit, you are probably going to mishap.

Funny i did this a few times then. Always had reclamation legion with a 20 warriors blobs around my overloard with a veil of darkness. You dispersed 2/3 of the time, and with that average 7'', can be more, can be less. That leave a whole lot of table room not to land in no-mans land and still have at least a few warriors in rapid fire range.
But what do i know. I just did it, not like i computed the mathhammer.

You didn't play with enough terrain then.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Da W wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Da W wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
Seriously, the whole "Warriors easily wipe all vehicles off the table!" claim was just something people who bought into false hype/didn't know anything about statistics clung to back then.
40 shots?
Good luck trying to get 20 Warriors into rapid fire range without losing any of them.
Then take however many you have left, shoot, and subtract from that all the misses.
= how many 6s to pen?
Then subtract from that the various types of saves available.

Yes, it could have happened, but if you were purposely pointing Warriors at vehicles you were either desperate or not a very good Necron player.

We goddamn better be getting some sort of answer to this next month.

Yes its called veil of darkness, teleport 20 warrior at 9'', rapid fire 40 shots. More or less 30 hits, 4-5 get 6s, even monoliths where what, 4HP? BOOM.

-Now the view that on 6s they make 2 wound gets us back to 8-10 wounds. But Warrior would become too dangerous vs elite infantry.
-If on 5+ they wound, the 30 or so shots would make... 10 wounds, but onlt on T8+ opponents. Big stuff.
-Then again just lower the prices. 60 warriors + a boat potentially make 140 AP-1 shots! Not bad.

You know scattered existed back then, right? Deep striking wasn't pin point accurate in earlier editions. That's purely an 8th edition thing.
If you try to land within 9" of an enemy with a 20 man unit, you are probably going to mishap.

Funny i did this a few times then. Always had reclamation legion with a 20 warriors blobs around my overloard with a veil of darkness. You dispersed 2/3 of the time, and with that average 7'', can be more, can be less. That leave a whole lot of table room not to land in no-mans land and still have at least a few warriors in rapid fire range.
But what do i know. I just did it, not like i computed the mathhammer.

You didn't play with LITERALLY any terrain then.

FTFY

Mishaps only occurs if you landed on top of enemy units or impassable terrain. Any other type of terrain incurred a dangerous terrain test, but not a mishap. Only full buildings and impassable terrain would mishap.

I mean, I know we don’t have any other stuff to discuss at the moment, but let’s chill with the pitchforks against a guy who brought up a fun casual tactic from a prior edition.