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2013/03/02 08:43:38
Subject: If there was a Free For All Between all 18 Primarchs, Who Would Win?
Either Lion or Alpharius. In a grand-melee scenario like this, cunning is the greatest asset in victory. Those two can run circles around the other Primarchs when it comes to cleverness.
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life.
2013/03/02 09:21:19
Subject: If there was a Free For All Between all 18 Primarchs, Who Would Win?
Alpharius and Omegon I think would win. They are too sneaky and cunning for almost all of their brothers. If not them then probably the Lion or Russ.
"You have ruled this galaxy for ten thousand years, yet have little of account to show for you efforts. Order. Unity. Obedience. We taught the galaxy these things, and we shall do so again."
2013/03/02 12:38:30
Subject: If there was a Free For All Between all 18 Primarchs, Who Would Win?
Beaviz81 wrote: I'm sort of seeing a super-powered wrestling-event now. Would they use ladders and tables as well? Would Empy comment on it with Malcador?
Why would you say that. Now I see all the primarchs in those creepy wrestling suits. Oh god I can see forever...
But yeah I can't really see anyone win yet. But I do know the one to go down first... it'd prolly be Angron due to his full on derp rage.
Poor ignorant guardsmen, it be but one of many of the great miracles of the Emperor! The Emperor is magic, like Harry Potter, but more magic! A most real and true SPACE WIZARD! And for the last time... I'm not a space plumber.
Beaviz81 wrote: I'm sort of seeing a super-powered wrestling-event now. Would they use ladders and tables as well? Would Empy comment on it with Malcador?
Lol Empy - bring the boiling oil, eggs, flour and bread crumbs...
Anyway Russ FTW
P.S. Fabius is making ring girls...Every round - suprise
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/03/02 15:41:22
ADB: I showed the Wolves revealing the key weakness at the heart of the World Eaters; showing Angron that his Legion was broken and worthless compared to the others; that he was the one primarch who couldn't trust his own warriors, and that they didn't care if he lived or died; showing that loyalty to brothers and sons is the heart of success for the Legiones Astartes, to the point even Lorgar makes a big deal out of saying the World Eaters and their primarch were massively outclassed by Russ, and Angron was too stupid to see the lesson Russ had sacrificed time, sweat, and blood, to teach. We're talking about a battle the Wolves won, by isolating the enemy general through pack tactics, and threatening to kill him, without a hope of defending himself. It was a balance, 50/50 - Angron overpowered Russ, and the Wolves were losing ground to the World Eaters; but Russ and his warriors had Angron by the balls, and barely broke a sweat. They won, no question. Lorgar even says: "The Wolves won, meathead."
Dorn won’t help you either. He’s too busy being the Emperor’s groundskeeper, hiding behind the palace walls. The Wolf is too busy cutting off heads as our father’s executioner, while the Lion holds on to his secrets, and has no special fondness for you. Who else will come? Not Ferrus, certainly. Nor Corax either. Even as we speak, I suspect he flees for Deliverance. Sanguinius?’ Curze laughed cruelly. ‘The angel is more cursed than I. The Khan? He does not wish to be found. So who is left? No one, Vulkan. None of them will come. You are simply not that important. You are alone.’ Konrad Curze to Vulkan
2013/03/02 13:02:11
Subject: If there was a Free For All Between all 18 Primarchs, Who Would Win?
Gota side with Alpharius and Omegon not only will they disappear and play every one off against each other they have the advantage of no one knowing there's two of them.
Become that which is most feared: Death
2013/03/02 15:07:16
Subject: If there was a Free For All Between all 18 Primarchs, Who Would Win?
horus
because hes only one to beeing close with the emperor himself
remember how the "master of mankind" got on the golden throne and as to why sanguinus is dead.
chaos is eternal
puppys from space
2013/03/02 15:52:48
Subject: Re:If there was a Free For All Between all 18 Primarchs, Who Would Win?
According to Corax, probably Angron, but also Sanguinius or Horus.
You can probably rule out:
- Corax (for admitting the above).
- Curze (for being defeated by the Lion).
- Lorgar (for being defeated by Corax).
In theory, Magnus would be pretty ridiculous, due to the sheer power that comes from psychic ability; but then again, he was defeated by Russ; who then again again appears to have some anti-psychic mojo.
"It is the great irony of the Legiones Astartes: engineered to kill to achieve a victory of peace that they can then be no part of." - Roboute Guilliman
"As I recall, your face was tortured. Imagine that - the Master of the Wolves, his ferocity twisted into grief. And yet you still carried out your duty. You always did what was asked of you. So loyal. So tenacious. Truly you were the attack dog of the Emperor. You took no pleasure in what you did. I knew that then, and I know it now. But all things change, my brother. I'm not the same as I was, and you're... well, let us not mention where you are now." - Magnus the Red, to a statue of Leman Russ
2013/03/02 15:59:51
Subject: Re:If there was a Free For All Between all 18 Primarchs, Who Would Win?
The setting would win. Before BL bombed us with boring cardbord characters ( disregarding some exceptions ), the Horus Heresy with it's half forgotten tales of heroes and devils was actualy a pretty nice background myth.
2013/03/02 16:02:01
Subject: If there was a Free For All Between all 18 Primarchs, Who Would Win?
fyurian wrote: horus
because hes only one to beeing close with the emperor himself
remember how the "master of mankind" got on the golden throne and as to why sanguinus is dead.
True but by that time he was imbued by all 4 Chaos Gods and was pretty tasty in a ruck, I'd imagine the OP means with their 'natural' powers and abilties.
My vote goes either Russ or Sanguinius. Alpharius/Omegon's 'no-one knows there's 2 of us trick' would be pretty short-lived given the mental capabilities of their opponents. They are also described as being smaller than their brothers so should one get caught on their own....
Sanguinius is mentioned a few times in the books that he was certainly one of if not the best duellists and you'd have to totally annihilate Russ as he would never stop coming back for more.
Revilers 6,000pts
Dark Eldar 4,000pts
Cadian 229 regiment 3,000pts
2013/03/02 17:49:21
Subject: If there was a Free For All Between all 18 Primarchs, Who Would Win?
Just Dave wrote: According to Corax, probably Angron, but also Sanguinius or Horus.
You can probably rule out:
- Corax (for admitting the above).
- Curze (for being defeated by the Lion).
- Lorgar (for being defeated by Corax).
In theory, Magnus would be pretty ridiculous, due to the sheer power that comes from psychic ability; but then again, he was defeated by Russ; who then again again appears to have some anti-psychic mojo.
Curze was bested by Lion in a straight duel, but in a brawl, Curze dominated the Lion. Frankly, by showings Curze seems to be the most effective hand-to-hand combatant of the Primarchs, having also nearly killed Dorn with his bare hands.
The Lorgar that was defeated by Corax is not the same as the Lorgar of the current Horus Heresy. He is a psyker second only to Magnus, and even Angron compliments his martial prowess.
Magnus went into the fight against Russ half-hearted, per both A Thousand Sons and Lorgar's admission, and despite that was also busy psychically devastating Prospero's surface. He was also clearly holding the upper hand for the majority of the fight, until a wild, lucky swing took out Magnus's eye. Also, resistance to psychic powers is not unique to Russ. All the Primarchs have it, yet despite that, Lorgar was capable of telepathically commanding Horus, and Magnus proceeded to psychically dominate Lorgar from the other side of the galaxy.
Personally, I'd favor Angron (Due to his fury, martial prowess, and experience in gladiator bouts), Magnus (Due to a combination of incredible size, strength, and martial capability even by Primarch standards, "lauded as rivaling Russ," as well as being easily the most powerful psyker here), and Sanguinius (Who is basically a combination of Angron and Magnus, not quite as capable at their specialties as they are, but still very powerful).
Actually, I might have to say probably Sanguinius, more than anyone. It isn't just that he is very strong and martially powerful. It isn't just that he is a psyker of impressive standing. Those are benefits, but the real reason I'd favor him is mobility, in the form of his wings. In a huge free for all arena, mobility is essential, he could more easily disengage from an unfavorable position (A charging Angron, having Magnus's powers brought to bear on him, whatever), travel the length of the battlefield, and engage an unprepared opponent.
2013/03/02 19:24:15
Subject: Re:If there was a Free For All Between all 18 Primarchs, Who Would Win?
^LOL - Magnus went into a fight with Russ half hearted ? I say vice versa - Russ is doing his job, while cyclops goes into rage mode (fully backed by Tzeench) after he sees mass raping of his sons...
And that wild punch is pretty deliberate
Spoiler:
"Magnus the Red took to the field of battle. The ravaged ground liquefying under his mighty strides As he cut a swathe through the ranks of the Space Wolves, Crushing everything in his path. Where his gaze fell, even the stoutest Long Fang turned white and died. The single orb in his forehead pulsed with an unnatural light. And his red mane stood on end with the energies coursing around him. Truly, this was an abomination in the eyes of the Emperor.
Leman Russ leapt from the thick of the melee to intercept the rampaging giant. As he turned, Russ grabbed one of the traitors by the throat and flung it at the giant's face. Magnus s petrifying gaze was blocked for a moment, and with celerity unheard of, Russ charged bodily into the crimson behemoth. And yet he did not fall.
The giant moved far faster than a being of such size might. Smashing his fist into Russ s chest with force enough to splinter his breastplate, pushing slivers of ccramite into Russs heart. But the Wolf-King was undaunted. Crabbing the giants arm as Magnus reared back for another blow, Russ was brought near to the giants face, and kicked him squarely in the eye. Magnus's roar of pain shattered the sky above, and thick black blood began to rain from the heavens.
Russ took his chance, and grabbed his blinded foe about the waist. Lifting the Cyclops clean off the ground, teeth grinding in a grimace of pain, The Wolf-King broke the Cyclops' back. The Thousand Sons, seeing their Primarch broken and cast down, turned and fled. But as Russ raised the Frostblade Mjalnar to deliver the killing blow. Magnus gasped a word of power and sank into the iridescent ground."
now even if you go with the book trough Ahriman eyes - saying that Magnus was half hearted in that battle is madness....
ADB: I showed the Wolves revealing the key weakness at the heart of the World Eaters; showing Angron that his Legion was broken and worthless compared to the others; that he was the one primarch who couldn't trust his own warriors, and that they didn't care if he lived or died; showing that loyalty to brothers and sons is the heart of success for the Legiones Astartes, to the point even Lorgar makes a big deal out of saying the World Eaters and their primarch were massively outclassed by Russ, and Angron was too stupid to see the lesson Russ had sacrificed time, sweat, and blood, to teach. We're talking about a battle the Wolves won, by isolating the enemy general through pack tactics, and threatening to kill him, without a hope of defending himself. It was a balance, 50/50 - Angron overpowered Russ, and the Wolves were losing ground to the World Eaters; but Russ and his warriors had Angron by the balls, and barely broke a sweat. They won, no question. Lorgar even says: "The Wolves won, meathead."
Dorn won’t help you either. He’s too busy being the Emperor’s groundskeeper, hiding behind the palace walls. The Wolf is too busy cutting off heads as our father’s executioner, while the Lion holds on to his secrets, and has no special fondness for you. Who else will come? Not Ferrus, certainly. Nor Corax either. Even as we speak, I suspect he flees for Deliverance. Sanguinius?’ Curze laughed cruelly. ‘The angel is more cursed than I. The Khan? He does not wish to be found. So who is left? No one, Vulkan. None of them will come. You are simply not that important. You are alone.’ Konrad Curze to Vulkan
2013/03/02 20:56:07
Subject: Re:If there was a Free For All Between all 18 Primarchs, Who Would Win?
DarthMarko wrote: ^LOL - Magnus went into a fight with Russ half hearted ?
Yes.
I say vice versa - Russ is doing his job, while cyclops goes into rage mode (fully backed by Tzeench) after he sees mass raping of his sons...
And that wild punch is pretty deliberate
Russ did indeed do his job, whereas Magnus, even now (That is to say, as of Betrayer), has not fully committed towards betraying the Emperor against his brothers, much less as of Prospero.
You know this to be fact, because you've said it.
Spoiler:
"Magnus the Red took to the field of battle. The ravaged ground liquefying under his mighty strides As he cut a swathe through the ranks of the Space Wolves, Crushing everything in his path. Where his gaze fell, even the stoutest Long Fang turned white and died. The single orb in his forehead pulsed with an unnatural light. And his red mane stood on end with the energies coursing around him. Truly, this was an abomination in the eyes of the Emperor.
Leman Russ leapt from the thick of the melee to intercept the rampaging giant. As he turned, Russ grabbed one of the traitors by the throat and flung it at the giant's face. Magnus s petrifying gaze was blocked for a moment, and with celerity unheard of, Russ charged bodily into the crimson behemoth. And yet he did not fall.
The giant moved far faster than a being of such size might. Smashing his fist into Russ s chest with force enough to splinter his breastplate, pushing slivers of ccramite into Russs heart. But the Wolf-King was undaunted. Crabbing the giants arm as Magnus reared back for another blow, Russ was brought near to the giants face, and kicked him squarely in the eye. Magnus's roar of pain shattered the sky above, and thick black blood began to rain from the heavens.
Russ took his chance, and grabbed his blinded foe about the waist. Lifting the Cyclops clean off the ground, teeth grinding in a grimace of pain, The Wolf-King broke the Cyclops' back. The Thousand Sons, seeing their Primarch broken and cast down, turned and fled. But as Russ raised the Frostblade Mjalnar to deliver the killing blow. Magnus gasped a word of power and sank into the iridescent ground."
now even if you go with the book trough Ahriman eyes - saying that Magnus was half hearted in that battle is madness....
A Thousand Sons was not written in first-person.
If we go with Index Astartes, Leman Russ's chest was split open by Magnus's fist without the use of any sorcery, lol.
You seem mad. I think you should calm down. No one is threatening your food Marko.
Angel boy for the probable win.
2013/03/02 21:28:17
Subject: If there was a Free For All Between all 18 Primarchs, Who Would Win?
Magnus was only half hearted when he "attacked the fang" ... On Prospero he went on Russ like father goes to protect his dying sons, fully in rage, fightning with motive which puts Russ's motive to shame...
Also Russ didn't enjoy his job (evident by his attempt of conversation with Magnus in "Prospero burnes")....So disagree 100% - no offense, and without mad tone
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lynata wrote: From an out-of-universe perspective, clearly it would have to be Leman Russ, seeing as Space Wolves have +1 plot armour.
I'm just happy you can always remind me on that...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/02 22:23:39
ADB: I showed the Wolves revealing the key weakness at the heart of the World Eaters; showing Angron that his Legion was broken and worthless compared to the others; that he was the one primarch who couldn't trust his own warriors, and that they didn't care if he lived or died; showing that loyalty to brothers and sons is the heart of success for the Legiones Astartes, to the point even Lorgar makes a big deal out of saying the World Eaters and their primarch were massively outclassed by Russ, and Angron was too stupid to see the lesson Russ had sacrificed time, sweat, and blood, to teach. We're talking about a battle the Wolves won, by isolating the enemy general through pack tactics, and threatening to kill him, without a hope of defending himself. It was a balance, 50/50 - Angron overpowered Russ, and the Wolves were losing ground to the World Eaters; but Russ and his warriors had Angron by the balls, and barely broke a sweat. They won, no question. Lorgar even says: "The Wolves won, meathead."
Dorn won’t help you either. He’s too busy being the Emperor’s groundskeeper, hiding behind the palace walls. The Wolf is too busy cutting off heads as our father’s executioner, while the Lion holds on to his secrets, and has no special fondness for you. Who else will come? Not Ferrus, certainly. Nor Corax either. Even as we speak, I suspect he flees for Deliverance. Sanguinius?’ Curze laughed cruelly. ‘The angel is more cursed than I. The Khan? He does not wish to be found. So who is left? No one, Vulkan. None of them will come. You are simply not that important. You are alone.’ Konrad Curze to Vulkan
2013/03/02 22:28:03
Subject: If there was a Free For All Between all 18 Primarchs, Who Would Win?
Russ did indeed do his job, whereas Magnus, even now (That is to say, as of Betrayer), has not fully committed towards betraying the Emperor against his brothers, much less as of Prospero.
So you will not bring "they were forced to become traitor" story again?
That's why I don't pity Magnus - he knows Horus's prank, he knows about chaos Gods, he is fully aware of his downfall - and yet he is undicided? And after how many years he goes with the traitors ? Why ?
We still don't know his motive, but I'm looking foward to find out...
ADB: I showed the Wolves revealing the key weakness at the heart of the World Eaters; showing Angron that his Legion was broken and worthless compared to the others; that he was the one primarch who couldn't trust his own warriors, and that they didn't care if he lived or died; showing that loyalty to brothers and sons is the heart of success for the Legiones Astartes, to the point even Lorgar makes a big deal out of saying the World Eaters and their primarch were massively outclassed by Russ, and Angron was too stupid to see the lesson Russ had sacrificed time, sweat, and blood, to teach. We're talking about a battle the Wolves won, by isolating the enemy general through pack tactics, and threatening to kill him, without a hope of defending himself. It was a balance, 50/50 - Angron overpowered Russ, and the Wolves were losing ground to the World Eaters; but Russ and his warriors had Angron by the balls, and barely broke a sweat. They won, no question. Lorgar even says: "The Wolves won, meathead."
Dorn won’t help you either. He’s too busy being the Emperor’s groundskeeper, hiding behind the palace walls. The Wolf is too busy cutting off heads as our father’s executioner, while the Lion holds on to his secrets, and has no special fondness for you. Who else will come? Not Ferrus, certainly. Nor Corax either. Even as we speak, I suspect he flees for Deliverance. Sanguinius?’ Curze laughed cruelly. ‘The angel is more cursed than I. The Khan? He does not wish to be found. So who is left? No one, Vulkan. None of them will come. You are simply not that important. You are alone.’ Konrad Curze to Vulkan
World Eater's 3rd Company-1650 pts 
Oh god I can see forever...
1K Vostroyan Firstborn
2K Flylords
600 Pts Orks
3K Ad-Mech 
5000(7 drop-pods)pts (15/10/4)
200pts(lol)
1500pts (10/0/0)
chaos is eternal
Dark Eldar 4,000pts
Cadian 229 regiment 3,000pts 
In dedicato imperatum ultra articulo mortis 
