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So I'm a long time 40k player who recently wanted to look into alternative TT games and came across WM. Initially this was mostly driven by cost and the way that GW essentially forces me to spend money unnecessarily (Death From The Skies ammiright?)

So, I just ordered the Prime MkII (Hardcover) and the 2 Player Battlebox ($80!!!!). I like both Khador and Menoth factions but plan to play Khador (those Man-O-War models look fantastic).

Now to convince my 40k Circle to join me (I'm going to give Menoth and mini rulebook to one of them as an incentive )

Any particular things I should consider adding? I've got dice and the other essential stuffs (aside from counters and templates).

Also, if I wanted to upgrade the Khador side to 25 points, what's an efficient way to do so? I'm comfortable with just about any play style, so any common addition that works well with what comes in the box is something I'm all for considering.

Thanks!

 NickTheButcher wrote:

So, I just ordered the Prime MkII (Hardcover) and the 2 Player Battlebox ($80!!!!).

You are aware that the 2 player box comes with a fully functional mini-rulebook inside right?

PhantomViper wrote:

 NickTheButcher wrote:

So, I just ordered the Prime MkII (Hardcover) and the 2 Player Battlebox ($80!!!!).

You are aware that the 2 player box comes with a fully functional mini-rulebook inside right?

Yeah, I just like having the full size hardcover -- it was only like $30 as well.

I'll be giving the Mini one to a buddy to try and get him into playing it.

If you like the Man-O-Wars, you could pick up Butcher, he's really the main person to take if you want to use Man-O-Wars.

Using the caster in the box though, Sorscha likes to have Winter Guard in her forces, but I've had good experience with just about everything, and I've found she works well with the Iron Fang units.

In any case though, definitely pick up a Widowmakers squad. They'll always have a place in pretty much every army unless you are taking Karchev with an all-jack force.

there are paper templates in the box, you can use any bead/coins for Focus, and there are some nice counters for spells and other effects on the web.

about suggestions, the War Dog looks like a generally useful piece.
also, while I had not too many chances to fight Khador (just a couple of times tbh) Widowmakers and Spriggan seem quite popular choices.

 Gabbi wrote:
there are paper templates in the box, you can use any bead/coins for Focus, and there are some nice counters for spells and other effects on the web.

about suggestions, the War Dog looks like a generally useful piece.
also, while I had not too many chances to fight Khador (just a couple of times tbh) Widowmakers and Spriggan seem quite popular choices.

Totally random and off topic but Gabbi, where is your forum avatar from?

His avatar is from the Cassherm live action movie.

 AduroT wrote:
His avatar is from the Cassherm live action movie.

Thank you.

Thanith wrote:Totally random and off topic but Gabbi, where is your forum avatar from?

AduroT wrote:His avatar is from the Cassherm live action movie.

correct


let me warn you, though: trailer is quite misleading.
it's a movie I love alot (obviously) especially for its visuals (photography, use of colors) but it is not an action movie. pretty all the action scenes are in the trailer. if you'll go watching it expecting smashes and crashes there are chances you'll find it quite boring

/OT

 forruner_mercy wrote:
If you like the Man-O-Wars, you could pick up Butcher, he's really the main person to take if you want to use Man-O-Wars.

Using the caster in the box though, Sorscha likes to have Winter Guard in her forces, but I've had good experience with just about everything, and I've found she works well with the Iron Fang units.

In any case though, definitely pick up a Widowmakers squad. They'll always have a place in pretty much every army unless you are taking Karchev with an all-jack force.

Doing a bit of reading, I grabbed The Butcher as well. Seems like he'll make a nice addition to the box that I get.....

Can't wait for everything to come in the mail now

Just note that the battle boxes are balanced against each other, it'll be a lot nicer if you stick to battle box contents as the games are usually quick, fun, and evenly balanced. a caster like butcher can be difficult for someone that doesnt understand how slams, knockdowns, ect. work because he's so fraggen tough.

Its ALOT more subtle of a game than 40k, with facing and tiny movements really mattering quite a lot, as is jockeying for position, not so much apply chainsword to face, repeat. battleboxes are designed to help you learn the game, but it really comes into its own around 35 points where you have complicated activation orders to setup assassinations.

I have to agree with Grundz . Also be sure you read through the steps of a player turn Maintenance phase, Control phase and activation phase.. In warmachine compared to 40k you move one model, unit at a time an finish everything with it.. It moves and it attacks etc.. then its the next model in your armies turn to do something. Also the rules are writen more to the point, you do not need to try and interpret, like many of the strangely worded things in WH40k..

Also try and use the things in the game that 40k do not offer.. slam, throw, tramples and headbutts .. The game is really cool when you start getting into it... In this game you can really feel the power behind a big bad Beast trampling over little troopers who try and get out of the way but get stomped into the ground...

 Nucflash wrote:
I have to agree with Grundz .

GET OUT

Dont use the Man o War and do a Starter Box Tournament

This means everyone picks up a ~$30 Starter and plays it against each other, everyone's starters are about ~12 points

This would put everyone on more or less equal footing which gives everyone incentive to start up, after a week or 2, raise it to a true 15 points, then a true 20 pts, then a true 25 pts

The slow progress will be very cheap for everyone that most people won't even notice the cost.

 Talamare wrote:
Dont use the Man o War and do a Starter Box Tournament

This means everyone picks up a ~$30 Starter and plays it against each other, everyone's starters are about ~12 points

This would put everyone on more or less equal footing which gives everyone incentive to start up, after a week or 2, raise it to a true 15 points, then a true 20 pts, then a true 25 pts

The slow progress will be very cheap for everyone that most people won't even notice the cost.

Unfortunately my LGS doesn't do Warmachine.....it's pretty stupid TBH. If I want to do any tournaments I have to drive 2 hours.....

Perhaps you could consider becoming a PG for the LGS? Unless by "doesn't do" you mean they refuse to stock or support.

The battleboxes are $50 USD, for reference.

Don't let the game fool you, I play warmachine and I've spent more money on just one of my armies than I have for 40k.

Seeing as the standard values are 11 to 35 points, you can run 11 points for $50, but for 35? That's dependent on what you wanna run. Sure you can run just jacks, adding something like 3 heavy jacks to your 11 points for a 35 point list, costing somewhere around $90 to get to that, but I wanted infantry, and oooh boy are they expensive. GW pricing looks tame by comparison.

My silly 5 metal horses were $100 USD, that's just for a 11 point unit of them.

Anyway, in terms of what to buy, how to upgrade and such, just pick what you like and run it. Don't worry too much about if it works, just keep an eye on synergies and use theme lists as guides for units to look at. You can do well with just about anything, including any caster, just remember some are easier to use than others.

 NickTheButcher wrote:

 Talamare wrote:
Dont use the Man o War and do a Starter Box Tournament

This means everyone picks up a ~$30 Starter and plays it against each other, everyone's starters are about ~12 points

This would put everyone on more or less equal footing which gives everyone incentive to start up, after a week or 2, raise it to a true 15 points, then a true 20 pts, then a true 25 pts

The slow progress will be very cheap for everyone that most people won't even notice the cost.

Unfortunately my LGS doesn't do Warmachine.....it's pretty stupid TBH. If I want to do any tournaments I have to drive 2 hours.....

I meant host the tournaments yourself

 juraigamer wrote:
The battleboxes are $50 USD, for reference.

Don't let the game fool you, I play warmachine and I've spent more money on just one of my armies than I have for 40k.

Seeing as the standard values are 11 to 35 points, you can run 11 points for $50, but for 35? That's dependent on what you wanna run. Sure you can run just jacks, adding something like 3 heavy jacks to your 11 points for a 35 point list, costing somewhere around $90 to get to that, but I wanted infantry, and oooh boy are they expensive. GW pricing looks tame by comparison.

My silly 5 metal horses were $100 USD, that's just for a 11 point unit of them.

Anyway, in terms of what to buy, how to upgrade and such, just pick what you like and run it. Don't worry too much about if it works, just keep an eye on synergies and use theme lists as guides for units to look at. You can do well with just about anything, including any caster, just remember some are easier to use than others.

Cavalry is essentially the only expensive WM/H infantry, even then they have begun making plastic which is cheaper than their current metal sets

While WM/H are getting cheaper, WH40k is getting inexplicably more expensive

Not to mention you still need more models WH40k, even if the price per model is roughly the same. You need at least 4 infantry groups as the very very base of the army in 40k, You need probably only 2 infantry groups in WM/H

 juraigamer wrote:

My silly 5 metal horses were $100 USD, that's just for a 11 point unit of them.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat720006a&prodId=prod1230135a

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440038a&prodId=prod1710040a

 juraigamer wrote:
The battleboxes are $50 USD, for reference.

Don't let the game fool you, I play warmachine and I've spent more money on just one of my armies than I have for 40k.

Seeing as the standard values are 11 to 35 points, you can run 11 points for $50, but for 35? That's dependent on what you wanna run. Sure you can run just jacks, adding something like 3 heavy jacks to your 11 points for a 35 point list, costing somewhere around $90 to get to that, but I wanted infantry, and oooh boy are they expensive. GW pricing looks tame by comparison.

My silly 5 metal horses were $100 USD, that's just for a 11 point unit of them.

Anyway, in terms of what to buy, how to upgrade and such, just pick what you like and run it. Don't worry too much about if it works, just keep an eye on synergies and use theme lists as guides for units to look at. You can do well with just about anything, including any caster, just remember some are easier to use than others.

Prices per model can get high. But GW has some pretty high prices as well on some things. It is easy to drop a chunk of change in either game. However, WM/H is a lot cheaper to get into and get started. A Battlebox and rulebook will be $60-70 if you look around for bargains. 2 player box for $80 is not hard to get. You can't even get close to starting 40K for that. The rulebook alone is what? $60+ then you need a codex ($30+?) and a bunch of units.

One thing PP does really well is make it relatively cheap and easy to get into the game. They know once you get hooked you will probably buy ALOT more.

When I was switching I did the math. My two 35 point WM armies were about $150-200 msrp each. And my two 1750 40K armies were $400-500 MSRP each. Each system I had an infantry heavy list (Cryx and Templar) and the other a Mech/Jack heavy (Cygnar and Eldar) list.

This was also a few years ago and GW has increased their prices while PP prices have stayed relatively even, or even gone down with the units that are plastic. For example the Cygnar Stormlances are about $100 MSRP for 5. The new Blazers (with plastic horses) are $60.

And I won't even bring up how much better written the WM/H rules are compared to 40K and how much more balanced the game is. Oh wait, I just did.

 juraigamer wrote:
The battleboxes are $50 USD, for reference.

Don't let the game fool you, I play warmachine and I've spent more money on just one of my armies than I have for 40k.

Seeing as the standard values are 11 to 35 points, you can run 11 points for $50, but for 35? That's dependent on what you wanna run. Sure you can run just jacks, adding something like 3 heavy jacks to your 11 points for a 35 point list, costing somewhere around $90 to get to that, but I wanted infantry, and oooh boy are they expensive. GW pricing looks tame by comparison.

My silly 5 metal horses were $100 USD, that's just for a 11 point unit of them.

Anyway, in terms of what to buy, how to upgrade and such, just pick what you like and run it. Don't worry too much about if it works, just keep an eye on synergies and use theme lists as guides for units to look at. You can do well with just about anything, including any caster, just remember some are easier to use than others.

The 5 metal horses are about the equivalent of the metal dreadnoughts.
Plus infantry is getting cheaper since they started releasing them in plastic.

There's also as I gather a matter of the mix-and-match factor with WM/H models. Models can be used beteen different lists wholesale really.

That said, over the course of playing this game I have spent over a grand on it, nearly two, easily. But that is over the course of about seven years now, and making a point to own all of a Faction. And with what I have I have been able to make dozens of lists of most any point level within Circle at this point, so YMMV on what you pick up and what variety you want.

And stuff.

Sining wrote:

 juraigamer wrote:
The battleboxes are $50 USD, for reference.

Don't let the game fool you, I play warmachine and I've spent more money on just one of my armies than I have for 40k.

Seeing as the standard values are 11 to 35 points, you can run 11 points for $50, but for 35? That's dependent on what you wanna run. Sure you can run just jacks, adding something like 3 heavy jacks to your 11 points for a 35 point list, costing somewhere around $90 to get to that, but I wanted infantry, and oooh boy are they expensive. GW pricing looks tame by comparison.

My silly 5 metal horses were $100 USD, that's just for a 11 point unit of them.

Anyway, in terms of what to buy, how to upgrade and such, just pick what you like and run it. Don't worry too much about if it works, just keep an eye on synergies and use theme lists as guides for units to look at. You can do well with just about anything, including any caster, just remember some are easier to use than others.

The 5 metal horses are about the equivalent of the metal dreadnoughts.
Plus infantry is getting cheaper since they started releasing them in plastic.

The medium infantry's been getting a lot cheaper in plastic, but light infantry's been staying mostly the same price.

The goal in part of the plastic stuff was to stabalize what they did produce in metal. So the fact that metal infantry is staying the same is in part due to trying to lower costs elsewhere, as PP seems pretty averse to price-adjustments (they've done them twice a few years back, but mostly make-up in costs of later models).

And stuff.

Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:Perhaps you could consider becoming a PG for the LGS? Unless by "doesn't do" you mean they refuse to stock or support.

Yeah I spoke with the owner of my LGS and he said he had tried stocking it a couple times, but stopped since no one was picking it up.

juraigamer wrote:The battleboxes are $50 USD, for reference.

Don't let the game fool you, I play warmachine and I've spent more money on just one of my armies than I have for 40k.

Seeing as the standard values are 11 to 35 points, you can run 11 points for $50, but for 35? That's dependent on what you wanna run. Sure you can run just jacks, adding something like 3 heavy jacks to your 11 points for a 35 point list, costing somewhere around $90 to get to that, but I wanted infantry, and oooh boy are they expensive. GW pricing looks tame by comparison.

My silly 5 metal horses were $100 USD, that's just for a 11 point unit of them.

Anyway, in terms of what to buy, how to upgrade and such, just pick what you like and run it. Don't worry too much about if it works, just keep an eye on synergies and use theme lists as guides for units to look at. You can do well with just about anything, including any caster, just remember some are easier to use than others.

As for cost, at least from what I've seen -- yes it can cost as much as 40k, but that cost gets me units/models that allow for a much greater list variation and flexibility. Whereas making an equivalent list in terms of points for 40k pretty much limits me to that single list. If I want to deviate AND stay balance, I have to get a lot more models.

I could be wrong, but even thus far, I've spent FAR less money getting into this than I would with GW. And a lot of the models I've looked at that I may get in the future are cheaper than what it would cost me to expand my 40k army.....the thought of spending $80 for a single Stormraven -- when I need 2 or even 3 of them to give my list flexibility AND remain effective makes me cringe.

It's also not entirely about cost. It's about business practice and GW's asinine marketing and logic (if any) -- the fact that they will stop at nothing to force customers to spend extra money is ridiculous. I get they are a business and need to make money, but there are much better ways to go about it. The last 2 months have been my line in the sand with the Death From The Skies compendium, to the NA trade policy and finally the cancelling of open play in GW stores. It's almost like they WANT to go out of business.... /rant

Talamare wrote:

 NickTheButcher wrote:

 Talamare wrote:
Dont use the Man o War and do a Starter Box Tournament

This means everyone picks up a ~$30 Starter and plays it against each other, everyone's starters are about ~12 points

This would put everyone on more or less equal footing which gives everyone incentive to start up, after a week or 2, raise it to a true 15 points, then a true 20 pts, then a true 25 pts

The slow progress will be very cheap for everyone that most people won't even notice the cost.

Unfortunately my LGS doesn't do Warmachine.....it's pretty stupid TBH. If I want to do any tournaments I have to drive 2 hours.....

I meant host the tournaments yourself

That's not a bad idea....I have the space and tables to do it too. Maybe I'll hit up craigslist and see how many people in my area are playing it.....

 NickTheButcher wrote:

Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:Perhaps you could consider becoming a PG for the LGS? Unless by "doesn't do" you mean they refuse to stock or support.

Yeah I spoke with the owner of my LGS and he said he had tried stocking it a couple times, but stopped since no one was picking it up.

juraigamer wrote:The battleboxes are $50 USD, for reference.

Don't let the game fool you, I play warmachine and I've spent more money on just one of my armies than I have for 40k.

Seeing as the standard values are 11 to 35 points, you can run 11 points for $50, but for 35? That's dependent on what you wanna run. Sure you can run just jacks, adding something like 3 heavy jacks to your 11 points for a 35 point list, costing somewhere around $90 to get to that, but I wanted infantry, and oooh boy are they expensive. GW pricing looks tame by comparison.

My silly 5 metal horses were $100 USD, that's just for a 11 point unit of them.

Anyway, in terms of what to buy, how to upgrade and such, just pick what you like and run it. Don't worry too much about if it works, just keep an eye on synergies and use theme lists as guides for units to look at. You can do well with just about anything, including any caster, just remember some are easier to use than others.

As for cost, at least from what I've seen -- yes it can cost as much as 40k, but that cost gets me units/models that allow for a much greater list variation and flexibility. Whereas making an equivalent list in terms of points for 40k pretty much limits me to that single list. If I want to deviate AND stay balance, I have to get a lot more models.

I could be wrong, but even thus far, I've spent FAR less money getting into this than I would with GW. And a lot of the models I've looked at that I may get in the future are cheaper than what it would cost me to expand my 40k army.....the thought of spending $80 for a single Stormraven -- when I need 2 or even 3 of them to give my list flexibility AND remain effective makes me cringe.

It's also not entirely about cost. It's about business practice and GW's asinine marketing and logic (if any) -- the fact that they will stop at nothing to force customers to spend extra money is ridiculous. I get they are a business and need to make money, but there are much better ways to go about it. The last 2 months have been my line in the sand with the Death From The Skies compendium, to the NA trade policy and finally the cancelling of open play in GW stores. It's almost like they WANT to go out of business.... /rant

Talamare wrote:

 NickTheButcher wrote:

 Talamare wrote:
Dont use the Man o War and do a Starter Box Tournament

This means everyone picks up a ~$30 Starter and plays it against each other, everyone's starters are about ~12 points

This would put everyone on more or less equal footing which gives everyone incentive to start up, after a week or 2, raise it to a true 15 points, then a true 20 pts, then a true 25 pts

The slow progress will be very cheap for everyone that most people won't even notice the cost.

Unfortunately my LGS doesn't do Warmachine.....it's pretty stupid TBH. If I want to do any tournaments I have to drive 2 hours.....

I meant host the tournaments yourself

That's not a bad idea....I have the space and tables to do it too. Maybe I'll hit up craigslist and see how many people in my area are playing it.....

Sounds like a good time to have a PG or 2 come in and start doing some demo days..... The PG's should be able to point you the right direction for other gaming groups, tournaments, leagues, ect.

Here is the link to search your area for who is around. All of their PP Forum names are listed for easy contact.

http://volunteers.privateerpress.com/location/users

 NickTheButcher wrote:

Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:Perhaps you could consider becoming a PG for the LGS? Unless by "doesn't do" you mean they refuse to stock or support.

Yeah I spoke with the owner of my LGS and he said he had tried stocking it a couple times, but stopped since no one was picking it up.

From my experiences most game stores are willing to make special orders if they get paid in advance or know they are going to get paid.

If you really want to suck people in get a couple armies and then meet up with a buddy at the local store. Once people start seeing others playing they will want to check it out. Have them put in an order with the LGS to get started. Having actual battleboxes and stock on hand would be better, but get people hooked and get the LGS interested in supporting it as they see the player base grow.

Again, the nice thing is getting started is cheap and easy (from a tabletop gaming perspective). And really you can play 40K or Fantasy and play WM/H, too. I started WM/H with the intention of playing that to take a break from 40K. I ended up never going back, but others switch back and forth all the time. They really are different enough games that you can enjoy aspects of both.

Welcome. My friend and I just got into WM as well, like you we ran from 40k. He has a small Gk army, I almost bought into Tau...but our displeasure at the game unbalance, and the rising cost sent us looking at WM. We are both quite happy.

I have definitely noticed a lot more list flexibility in terms of cost with WM. I actually sold all of my GW armies and picked up WM simply because I was becoming extremely frustrated with the lack of clarity in GW rules and the fact that you basically take the best units from each section and that is your army.

Warmachine does an excellent job of making many units in a book good especially if taken with other units that increase their capabilities. I have noticed that Warmachine is much more a game of tactics, placement and synergy than 40k and that is what I love about it.

A quick bit of a advice on the Khador front. get Winterguard Infanty + Officer and Standard + 3 Rocketeers and Kovnik Josef *Last name that I cannot spell without the book*

It is a staple unit in Khador and is an absolutely monster to deal with.

 NickTheButcher wrote:

It's also not entirely about cost. It's about business practice and GW's asinine marketing and logic (if any) -- the fact that they will stop at nothing to force customers to spend extra money is ridiculous. I get they are a business and need to make money, but there are much better ways to go about it. The last 2 months have been my line in the sand with the Death From The Skies compendium, to the NA trade policy and finally the cancelling of open play in GW stores. It's almost like they WANT to go out of business.... /rant

I'm glad I'm not the only one leaving the game because of their business practices. The prices were part of what got me to look at Warmahordes, but what really did it in for me was their new trade policies restricting online sellers and hurting local stores. That, combined with their low standard for their rules, the rising costs, and the a rampant imbalance were the death blow to GW for me. Also, if I may ask, when did they cancel open play in their stores? I admit I haven't payed any attention to GW since February, but still that is quite surprising that they don't let people play their games in their stores (if I'm interpreting that correctly).