Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
I really like the new Dark Apostle - even though the whole mechanic of "He knows prayer X and one prayer of the dark gods, the same prayer can only be chanted once per battle round regardless of how many Apostles your army contains" feels very similar to psychic powers - that can't be denied.
Not necessarily bad, but I don't get why they have a chance to fail in the first place. In the grim future where there is only war, Dark Apostles often suffer from bouts of sudden voicecracks?
The Khorne-chant seems very odd (read: bad) however. When is +2 Str a better pick than +3 A +3 AP? Meh.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/23 21:42:43
Not necessarily bad, but I don't get why they have a chance to fail in the first place. In the grim future where there is only war, Dark Apostles often suffer from bouts of sudden voicecracks?
Guess it's abou if the chant is heared by the gods or not. Not if he is actually capable of chanting.
Not necessarily bad, but I don't get why they have a chance to fail in the first place. In the grim future where there is only war, Dark Apostles often suffer from bouts of sudden voicecracks?
Guess it's abou if the chant is heared by the gods or not. Not if he is actually capable of chanting.
Khorne could be listening out for the microwave ping instead
The Khorne-chant seems very odd (read: bad) however. When is +2 Str a better pick than +3 A +3 AP? Meh.
new apostle seems to not carry a power maul now ... it has a new name instead and seems to be +1 ap-1 d2 ... so you hitting on s5 instead of s6 ... with khorne is s7
MinscS2 wrote: I really like the new Dark Apostle - even though the whole mechanic of "He knows prayer X and one prayer of the dark gods, the same prayer can only be chanted once per battle round regardless of how many Apostles your army contains" feels very similar to psychic powers - that can't be denied.
Not necessarily bad, but I don't get why they have a chance to fail in the first place. In the grim future where there is only war, Dark Apostles often suffer from bouts of sudden voicecracks?
The Khorne-chant seems very odd (read: bad) however. When is +2 Str a better pick than +3 A +3 AP? Meh.
Maybe there is a way of getting an extra prayer off, if only once or so?
Even then, the prayer that makes it easier to wound is pretty much the same functionally and applies to everybody so...uh...dunno
Not necessarily bad, but I don't get why they have a chance to fail in the first place. In the grim future where there is only war, Dark Apostles often suffer from bouts of sudden voicecracks?
Guess it's abou if the chant is heared by the gods or not. Not if he is actually capable of chanting.
Khorne could be listening out for the microwave ping instead
I go out on a limb and say khorne is probably the god that will listen the least.
Well since his prayer is fighting, in essence khorne does want to eat his khorneflakes undisturbed.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
The lore is about as bad as I expected. GW's studio writers are awful.
Super pleased about some of these rules though, even if I'm mildly concerned that Word Bearers will no longer be able to give their Cursed Crozius to an actual Dark Apostle as he no longer wields a power maul.
The Circle of Iniquity The Fourth Seal
2019/03/23 22:32:24
Subject: Re:Shadow Spear / New Chaos Space Marines
Sir Heckington wrote: I have to ask what this new codex is fixing? CSM 2.0 codex with Vigilus doesn't look anymore fun to play than the old codex.
The traits, even the new renegade ones, look largely unfun and or useless.
Base chaos space marines still suck, cultists have been kicked in the balls multiple times.
Havocs being T5 with Relentless and not having my bolter dudes just feels... off (Gonna have to find something to do with those guys)
What can take thunder hammers is weird, no champions or termie's for it?
Marks still do nothing (Although this is a personal thing, but I really want my marks of old, including one for undivided)
This just feels low effort, like GW didn't actually make an attempt to fix the codex and make it fun, granted the new rules are good, the codex just seems to be missing something.
Oh please, nobody was running Bolter Havocs. Also what's not fun about the Renegade Traits? Granted that Crimson Slaughter could've been better...
the crimson slaughter one is second only to red corsairs! they're not limited to 1cp per round, because the refund doesn't come from a stratagem or refund points from a stratagem, so they can potentially gain 1 cp each time they kill an enemy unit. Go face Tau with 10's of small units of drone and pathfinder, and you'll find the CS to be really good I think!
Sir Heckington wrote: I have to ask what this new codex is fixing? CSM 2.0 codex with Vigilus doesn't look anymore fun to play than the old codex.
The traits, even the new renegade ones, look largely unfun and or useless.
Base chaos space marines still suck, cultists have been kicked in the balls multiple times.
Havocs being T5 with Relentless and not having my bolter dudes just feels... off (Gonna have to find something to do with those guys)
What can take thunder hammers is weird, no champions or termie's for it?
Marks still do nothing (Although this is a personal thing, but I really want my marks of old, including one for undivided)
This just feels low effort, like GW didn't actually make an attempt to fix the codex and make it fun, granted the new rules are good, the codex just seems to be missing something.
Oh please, nobody was running Bolter Havocs. Also what's not fun about the Renegade Traits? Granted that Crimson Slaughter could've been better...
the crimson slaughter one is second only to red corsairs! they're not limited to 1cp per round, because the refund doesn't come from a stratagem or refund points from a stratagem, so they can potentially gain 1 cp each time they kill an enemy unit. Go face Tau with 10's of small units of drone and pathfinder, and you'll find the CS to be really good I think!
A lot of Tactical Restraint sounds like you are right, but there is one sentence which imho disallows it:
In matched play games, each player can only gain or have refunded a total of one Command Point per battle round as the result of such rules, regardless of the source.
Edit: Okay its matched play only.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/23 23:03:11
2019/03/23 23:05:03
Subject: Re:Shadow Spear / New Chaos Space Marines
Kirasu wrote: i think the writers didnt do their research on what a Gloriana Class starship is...
Spoiler:
- Sure enough, the plan worked, with the Imperial Navy's remaining ships trying to open up a path for the Aeldari (there's a funny little bit here about how they dragged so many ships for this attack away from other planets that the Necrons, etc just took them) and the Eldar managed to ram the Vengeful spirit, ripping a whopping great big hole in it. The ship is very nearly dead, but manages to pull off an emergency warp translation (and therefore will probably be fixed up and fine by the time the writers need it as a plot device), but this hands naval superiority/equality at least back to the Imperium.
I know GW has to fit as many copywritten units/weapons into a story as possible, ut a deathstrike missile is a battlefield weapon, not a naval weapon and an Eldar ship is incredibly tiny. The Vengeful Spirit is something like ELEVEN miles long!
They also forget that those ships are equipped with powerful voidshields.
BFG rules: Ramming damage is not deflected by shields.
Any damage inflicted in BFG has a chance to cause critical hits, and some of those critical hits can inflict additional damage. Bulkhead Collapse for example inflicts an additiona +D6 damage. For comparison, an Emperor class battleship has 12 Damage points and losing half cripples a ship in BFG.
So can imagine the ram inflicting at least 1 point of damage, then a critical hit for 6 Damage. 7 total Damage at least. Unlikely? Yes, but not impossible. A Gloriana class might have more than 12 Damage points but even so, such a massive hit would be likely to lead to withdrawal, rather than risk its crippling or loss.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/23 23:22:46
2019/03/23 23:15:43
Subject: Re:Shadow Spear / New Chaos Space Marines
mortar_crew wrote: Oh boy that Emperor Children article was a let down!
Not even a word about Slaanesh deamon like they did
with the World Eaters and Khorne deamons,
nothing on sonic weapons?!
Just hoping for a codex later on the road with a proper Slaanesh release
but I sure feel disapointed.
What I don't understand is why they state you would need to stockpile the noise marine upgrade kits.
I assume they aren't going anywhere, anytime soon? Likely a marketing trick or just vehement article gusto. Oh look at that big pile of straws in my hand.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/23 23:19:13
MinscS2 wrote: The Khorne-chant seems very odd (read: bad) however. When is +2 Str a better pick than +3 A +3 AP? Meh.
You think Khorne cares for your chants? Ha! Khorne is a god of action not words! Most of his champions have never even prayed to him before. They have no tongue for it...
You use the (freebie) +2S one because, imagine, that you chose another prayer for your apostle: but oh no, he's the last guy standing and wants to wallop something! He woulda loved that +3A prayer, but he took +1 invuln one instead. That kinda thing.
Are the renagade traits in the codex?
Are the warlord traits/relics of the renagades in the codex?
Or is it just vigilus 2?
Just Vigilus 2. All the new models, detachments, and traits are in Vigilus not the new chaos marine dex. Unless you are starting the army fresh there is no reason to get the updated dex but every reason to get Vigilus 2.
Blog for the blood God made a fun combo with alpha legion a prayer and nurgle miasma you can fairly easily make a unit impossible to hit for the likes of guard and umbuffed tau on a -3 to hit
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/24 00:04:04
2019/03/24 00:19:17
Subject: Re:Shadow Spear / New Chaos Space Marines
Kirasu wrote: i think the writers didnt do their research on what a Gloriana Class starship is...
Spoiler:
- Sure enough, the plan worked, with the Imperial Navy's remaining ships trying to open up a path for the Aeldari (there's a funny little bit here about how they dragged so many ships for this attack away from other planets that the Necrons, etc just took them) and the Eldar managed to ram the Vengeful spirit, ripping a whopping great big hole in it. The ship is very nearly dead, but manages to pull off an emergency warp translation (and therefore will probably be fixed up and fine by the time the writers need it as a plot device), but this hands naval superiority/equality at least back to the Imperium.
I know GW has to fit as many copywritten units/weapons into a story as possible, ut a deathstrike missile is a battlefield weapon, not a naval weapon and an Eldar ship is incredibly tiny. The Vengeful Spirit is something like ELEVEN miles long!
They also forget that those ships are equipped with powerful voidshields.
BFG rules: Ramming damage is not deflected by shields.
Any damage inflicted in BFG has a chance to cause critical hits, and some of those critical hits can inflict additional damage. Bulkhead Collapse for example inflicts an additiona +D6 damage. For comparison, an Emperor class battleship has 12 Damage points and losing half cripples a ship in BFG.
So can imagine the ram inflicting at least 1 point of damage, then a critical hit for 6 Damage. 7 total Damage at least. Unlikely? Yes, but not impossible. A Gloriana class might have more than 12 Damage points but even so, such a massive hit would be likely to lead to withdrawal, rather than risk its crippling or loss.
In what way does BFG rules have anything to do with this? These games rarely reflect the fluff, however, a book CAN reflect the fluff accurately but GW is writing saturday morning cartoons lately. You don't seem like you know what a Gloriana class ship is either with the statement of "It might have".. It's orders of magnitudes more powerful and durable than any other ship ever constructed (Thats why only less than 2 dozen were ever constructed). One eldar ship isn't going to blow "huge holes" in it.. Again, deathstrike missiles are battlefield weapons and are a complete and utter joke in a void war.
But the fluff has been a disaster since the Ward Era anyway, unless you love G.I Joe style writing.
Keeper of the DomBox
Warhammer Armies - Click to see galleries of fully painted armies
32,000, 19,000, Renegades - 10,000 , 7,500,
MinscS2 wrote: I really like the new Dark Apostle - even though the whole mechanic of "He knows prayer X and one prayer of the dark gods, the same prayer can only be chanted once per battle round regardless of how many Apostles your army contains" feels very similar to psychic powers - that can't be denied.
Not necessarily bad, but I don't get why they have a chance to fail in the first place. In the grim future where there is only war, Dark Apostles often suffer from bouts of sudden voicecracks?
The Khorne-chant seems very odd (read: bad) however. When is +2 Str a better pick than +3 A +3 AP? Meh.
Maybe there is a way of getting an extra prayer off, if only once or so?
Even then, the prayer that makes it easier to wound is pretty much the same functionally and applies to everybody so...uh...dunno
Good point, that makes even less sense.
+2 Str on self is never a better choice than +1 to wound on self (or on a friendly unit within 6".)
At best it does the same thing but with restrictions. At worst it does nothing.
"But if you already have that prayer on a different Apostle?"
Then pick something else...
To some people's disappointment about it feeling like a Scooby Doo episode:
Spoiler:
Calgar couldn't have died, they just released a new model for him for $100. If he then died a month or 2 later I feel like that would be utterly hilariously ridiculous, so not sure what people were expecting.
If he hadn't had a new figure though then I would think he'd die.
Also, as a side note:
Spoiler:
With the war in Vigilus not over, that means the next campaign book could finally introduce the Blood Angels where Dante comes in Primarised or, my theory, Dante is killed by Horus' talon and is made into a rebirthed Sanguinius.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/03/24 00:35:50
There will be so much reeeeeeeee if Sanguinius comes back in any sort of physical capacity. Might as well bring back Ferrus, the original Alpharius, and Conrad too if they do though.
Tiberius501 wrote: To some people's disappointment about it feeling like a Scooby Doo episode:
Spoiler:
Calgar couldn't have died, they just released a new model for him for $100. If he then died a month or 2 later I feel like that would be utterly hilariously ridiculous, so not sure what people were expecting.
If he hadn't had a new figure though then I would think he'd die.
]
I actually addressed that in my post (and I'm the one who called it a Scooby Doo episode so I assume you're referring to me).
Spoiler:
They could have killed off a second or third tier character like Telion or Cassius for example to put some finality or gravitas on the situation.
I'm very annoyed by the rotor cannon thingy being pretty much as strong as 3 heavy bolter. WHY GW WHY? Between that and the Kellermorph pistols, stats power creep…
warboss wrote: think I'm just personally expecting too much from a supposedly mainstream wide age range targeted product debuting expensive brand new figures. I just keep hoping that just one of these main GW campaign ends up more like one of the (good) FW campaign books.
The problem with GW campaigns is that unlike Forge World, who understands right that 40k is a setting, one in which there are thousands of different chapters, regiments, and all. So Forge World creates bespoke characters and factions for their stories, work up to make us care for them, and give us a real ending that doesn't have to go back to the status quo. GW is really dumb (or really good at giving people what they want and most 40k fans have terrible ideas, idk) and think of 40k as a story (it's not, or at least not a good one) rather than a setting. So they take already established factions (easier, you don't have to work to make us care for them), existing characters (thousands of thousands of world but everyone is always the same, gakky smallworld stuff) and have to go back to the status quo. With extra added “story advancement” where they force those same smallworld stupid characters to make stuff that have galaxy-wide effects, which is anathema to the settings.
Bad GW!
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2019/03/24 00:47:14
Subject: Re:Shadow Spear / New Chaos Space Marines
Roknar wrote: I could see myself using the lord discordant as a replacement for a juggerlord.
maybe minus thje autocannon on the model, that thing looks a bit ridiculous.
zend wrote: There will be so much reeeeeeeee if Sanguinius comes back in any sort of physical capacity. Might as well bring back Ferrus, the original Alpharius, and Conrad too if they do though.
Imagine though if it was Horus' talon that strikes down Dante and rebirths Sanguinius' spirit or something. The same weapon that was used to kill Sanguinius brings him back in the wake of another dead Blood Angel hero. Dat drama tho. It won't happen haha, Dante will just get Primarised if anything, but I think it'd be cool.
But it would also spit in the face of other people who should get their primarchs over Sanguinius so I agree there. Definitely should be Russ or Lion or any of the others hinted to return over a legitimately dead one.
zend wrote: There will be so much reeeeeeeee if Sanguinius comes back in any sort of physical capacity. Might as well bring back Ferrus, the original Alpharius, and Conrad too if they do though.
Imagine though if it was Horus' talon that strikes down Dante and rebirths Sanguinius' spirit or something. The same weapon that was used to kill Sanguinius brings him back in the wake of another dead Blood Angel hero. Dat drama tho. It won't happen haha, Dante will just get Primarised if anything, but I think it'd be cool.
But it would also spit in the face of other people who should get their primarchs over Sanguinius so I agree there. Definitely should be Russ or Lion or any of the others hinted to return over a legitimately dead one.
It’d be kinda cool for a character to be reborn via soul transferral from the weapon that killed/mortally wounded them.
It’s been speculated that the sword Cypher carries is actually the sword Luther used to wound The Lion and it contains his soul.... you might be onto something.
zend wrote: There will be so much reeeeeeeee if Sanguinius comes back in any sort of physical capacity. Might as well bring back Ferrus, the original Alpharius, and Conrad too if they do though.
Imagine though if it was Horus' talon that strikes down Dante and rebirths Sanguinius' spirit or something. The same weapon that was used to kill Sanguinius brings him back in the wake of another dead Blood Angel hero. Dat drama tho. It won't happen haha, Dante will just get Primarised if anything, but I think it'd be cool.
But it would also spit in the face of other people who should get their primarchs over Sanguinius so I agree there. Definitely should be Russ or Lion or any of the others hinted to return over a legitimately dead one.
It’d be kinda cool for a character to be reborn via soul transferral from the weapon that killed/mortally wounded them.
It’s been speculated that the sword Cypher carries is actually the sword Luther used to wound The Lion and it contains his soul.... you might be onto something.
... I can already see it...
Dante comes from the other side of the rift onto the vengeful spirit, stuff happens, he gets impaled on one of the crystalline status and he basically dies... BUT WAIT, the blood of his son awakens the statue and basically supercharges dante and turns him into sanginius reborn, except he' still dante but now all superpowered and abaddon has to retreat into the warp, cursing that he'll get them next time !!
Tiberius501 wrote: To some people's disappointment about it feeling like a Scooby Doo episode:
Spoiler:
Calgar couldn't have died, they just released a new model for him for $100. If he then died a month or 2 later I feel like that would be utterly hilariously ridiculous, so not sure what people were expecting.
If he hadn't had a new figure though then I would think he'd die.
]
I actually addressed that in my post (and I'm the one who called it a Scooby Doo episode so I assume you're referring to me).
Spoiler:
They could have killed off a second or third tier character like Telion or Cassius for example to put some finality or gravitas on the situation.
Sorry, I wasn't referring purely to you, but yes that would've made it better, I agree.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/24 01:32:30
5500 pts 
6500 pts 
7000 pts 
9000 pts 
13.000 pts 
they're not limited to 1cp per round, because the refund doesn't come from a stratagem or refund points from a stratagem, so they can potentially gain 1 
