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Oh boy that Emperor Children article was a let down!
Not even a word about Slaanesh deamon like they did
with the World Eaters and Khorne deamons,
nothing on sonic weapons?!
Just hoping for a codex later on the road with a proper Slaanesh release
but I sure feel disapointed.
I have to ask what this new codex is fixing? CSM 2.0 codex with Vigilus doesn't look anymore fun to play than the old codex.
The traits, even the new renegade ones, look largely unfun and or useless.
Base chaos space marines still suck, cultists have been kicked in the balls multiple times.
Havocs being T5 with Relentless and not having my bolter dudes just feels... off (Gonna have to find something to do with those guys)
What can take thunder hammers is weird, no champions or termie's for it?
Marks still do nothing (Although this is a personal thing, but I really want my marks of old, including one for undivided)
This just feels low effort, like GW didn't actually make an attempt to fix the codex and make it fun, granted the new rules are good, the codex just seems to be missing something.
"For the dark gods!" - A traitor guardsmen, probably before being killed.
Eldenfirefly wrote: Well, to be fair, if we want shooty CSM, its basically slanaash CSM, and Emperor's children are the poster boy for slanaash CSM.
eh. Previously, just the noise marines, and maybe not even then. EC are better as close combat specialists thanks to always fight first, as it lets you effectively 'cheat' every combat phase. Like most marine armies, you want to dump the basics for the Effective-at-killing stuff, but it can be quite effective.
The new havocs wont care if they're emperors children or not. It has no meaningful effect
Did ya just forget about Endless Cacophony or
Just don't care very much, there are lots of ways to spend CP.
Juggling 5 man squads so that losing 1 wound models doesn't cost you 16 shots each doesn't seem worthwhile. T5 or not, the firepower people would be building around for that stratagem is easy to simply erase from the board, especially since they have be within 24".
Sir Heckington wrote: I have to ask what this new codex is fixing? CSM 2.0 codex with Vigilus doesn't look anymore fun to play than the old codex.
The traits, even the new renegade ones, look largely unfun and or useless.
Base chaos space marines still suck, cultists have been kicked in the balls multiple times.
Havocs being T5 with Relentless and not having my bolter dudes just feels... off (Gonna have to find something to do with those guys)
What can take thunder hammers is weird, no champions or termie's for it?
Marks still do nothing (Although this is a personal thing, but I really want my marks of old, including one for undivided)
This just feels low effort, like GW didn't actually make an attempt to fix the codex and make it fun, granted the new rules are good, the codex just seems to be missing something.
They gave the army 4 or 5 distinct ways to build using new characters and multiple avenues of buffs that can be combined.
2019/03/23 19:12:13
Subject: Re:Shadow Spear / New Chaos Space Marines
So if I'm reading this right we get the following for the dark apostle ( and other future priests)?
default = re-roll all hits in the fight phase
1: -1 to hit a unit with ranged
2: 2d6 , keep highest for morale checks within 6"
3: +3A, -4 AP for all melee on the priest
4: +1 to hit for a friendly unit with ranged attacks
5: +1 to wound with melee attacks for a friendly unit
6: 5++ within 6"
Khorne: +2S for the priest
Tzeentch: Priest regains D3 lost wounds?
Nurgle: +2T for priest
Slaanesh: priest can advance and charge
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/23 19:12:46
Here's a summary of the fluff in the Vigilus book, for anyone interested. Any complaints should probably be in spoiler brackets, since not everyone wants to know what happens just yet.
2019/03/23 19:29:34
Subject: Re:Shadow Spear / New Chaos Space Marines
mortar_crew wrote: Oh boy that Emperor Children article was a let down!
Not even a word about Slaanesh deamon like they did
with the World Eaters and Khorne deamons,
nothing on sonic weapons?!
Just hoping for a codex later on the road with a proper Slaanesh release
but I sure feel disapointed.
I'm honestly long past the point of being disappointed when it comes to Emperor's Children. But...hey, they did confirm that the old resin Noise Marine upgrade kit is still compatible with the new CSM kit. As a lover of all things Slaaneshi I'm happy that at least the Flawless Host got some nice characterful rules. However, they should have kept Advance and Charge; not the Red Corsairs. Since all their unique rules revolve around melee! Also Vigilus Ablaze apparently mention at least two named Keeper's of Secrets owning Sororitas and Drukari; so hopefully the new model is on its way with a plastic Herald or two.
"Fear the cute ones."
2019/03/23 19:38:00
Subject: Re:Shadow Spear / New Chaos Space Marines
Sir Heckington wrote: I have to ask what this new codex is fixing? CSM 2.0 codex with Vigilus doesn't look anymore fun to play than the old codex.
The traits, even the new renegade ones, look largely unfun and or useless.
Base chaos space marines still suck, cultists have been kicked in the balls multiple times.
Havocs being T5 with Relentless and not having my bolter dudes just feels... off (Gonna have to find something to do with those guys)
What can take thunder hammers is weird, no champions or termie's for it?
Marks still do nothing (Although this is a personal thing, but I really want my marks of old, including one for undivided)
This just feels low effort, like GW didn't actually make an attempt to fix the codex and make it fun, granted the new rules are good, the codex just seems to be missing something.
Oh please, nobody was running Bolter Havocs. Also what's not fun about the Renegade Traits? Granted that Crimson Slaughter could've been better...
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2019/03/23 19:40:33
Subject: Re:Shadow Spear / New Chaos Space Marines
Sir Heckington wrote: I have to ask what this new codex is fixing? CSM 2.0 codex with Vigilus doesn't look anymore fun to play than the old codex.
The traits, even the new renegade ones, look largely unfun and or useless.
Base chaos space marines still suck, cultists have been kicked in the balls multiple times.
Havocs being T5 with Relentless and not having my bolter dudes just feels... off (Gonna have to find something to do with those guys)
What can take thunder hammers is weird, no champions or termie's for it?
Marks still do nothing (Although this is a personal thing, but I really want my marks of old, including one for undivided)
This just feels low effort, like GW didn't actually make an attempt to fix the codex and make it fun, granted the new rules are good, the codex just seems to be missing something.
Oh please, nobody was running Bolter Havocs. Also what's not fun about the Renegade Traits? Granted that Crimson Slaughter could've been better...
Ah well, gonna have to put my bolter havocs away then... Not all of us play the game competitively you know.
They just don't seem all that fun to play with, but I might be wrong there, though I'm mostly going off the CSM one.
"For the dark gods!" - A traitor guardsmen, probably before being killed.
So... does anyone think that running something like Huron's new "traitor 17" or whatever but with one bulked out Marine squad is going to be really obnoxious esp. at any small game size but potentially at large ones? 'Cause, it's the first thing I thought of when seeing that.
I mean, I know larger squads is out of fashion these days, but 15-20 Marines that you need to wipe out or they can be recycled, with a detachment that can recycle them up to 4 times, seems pretty strong. Even a basic 10 man unit with triple plasma, that you can redeploy wherever and it can hold objectives, seems like a way bigger thorn for 3 CP than a one-time cultist blob respawn for 2, in the context of a faction that provides extra CP.
People need o stop making claims that nobody plays a certain way. It's just false. Havocs were never hyper competitive and when I did see them, I saw plenty of players taking ablative wounds.
That said, gaining a point of toughness and being able to redeploy from hidden deployment and fire to full affect more then makes up for it and you get to save points. If it really bugs you that much just take normal CSM units that are 10 strong with 2 heavys.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
spiralingcadaver wrote: So... does anyone think that running something like Huron's new "traitor 17" or whatever but with one bulked out Marine squad is going to be really obnoxious esp. at any small game size but potentially at large ones? 'Cause, it's the first thing I thought of when seeing that.
I mean, I know larger squads is out of fashion these days, but 15-20 Marines that you need to wipe out or they can be recycled, with a detachment that can recycle them up to 4 times, seems pretty strong. Even a basic 10 man unit with triple plasma, that you can redeploy wherever and it can hold objectives, seems like a way bigger thorn for 3 CP than a one-time cultist blob respawn for 2, in the context of a faction that provides extra CP.
It's not even remotely broken, marines still die pretty easily and the strat is 3cp. It's situationally a big deal, and it forces your opponent to really think before targeting that unit, since he is going to want to finish it off. But, even if he fails your looking at 2 CP to auto pass and another 3 to come back.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/23 19:55:52
yea i'm not complaining owning many havocs it does not 'feel' right they are t5 but if they are 14pts each that is only 2 off a plague marine who has a 5fnp
the chain guns are nasty.... 2 units of 5 jumping out a rhino with EC thats 96 heavy bolter shots! crazy
Brutus_Apex wrote: I don’t want to complain about a buff, especially for Chaos Marines, but does it bother anyone else immensely that havocs are now toughness 5?
Like, can I just have a small amount of consistency across the board here. I hate it when GW does this.
Sure but then if there is one thing GW is consistent at, it's being inconsistent...
What bothers me about the havoc is their champion.
To me that is one of the coolest new models and a painful reminder that we STILL don't have chosen models.
That dude looks way more badass than he as any right to be lol.
Also, and correct me if I'm wrong, but if cultists loose the the legion keyword , you can't even use stratagems anymore as the detachment you add them to is no longer comprised of only <legion> models.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/23 20:20:05
Here's a summary of the fluff in the Vigilus book, for anyone interested. Any complaints should probably be in spoiler brackets, since not everyone wants to know what happens just yet.
Thanks for the link. It's very predictable in that plot armor reigns supreme and ultimately disappointing as it's no more definitive than an episode of Scooby Doo. I've spoilered the post below for the link click adverse.
Spoiler:
The Chaos invasion is at first overwhelming, but clever use of ceding ground to the orks, genestealers, etc means that Calgar is able to pit his foes against one another and slow them down, at the cost of the planet being less salvageable should they somehow win.
- The Vengeful spirit and accompanying chaos fleet are absolutely decimating the Imperial navy, but it's still not quite enough. As a result Abaddon makes a deal with the Fallen (who are hiding in the swirl, as they have a fortress city in there, hence why the Dark Angels were always looking at it in book 1) and they activate a gravity weapon-esque thing called the voidclaw that messes with all the ships in orbit. The chaos navy knew it was coming and had positioned themselves accordingly, but the Imperials are shredded by it and Chaos now has overwhelming naval superiority.
- Calgar realises that he's stuffed and his promise to Guilliman will be unfulfilled if things keep progressing at this rate, so he hatches a plan. Thing is, he ideally needs some eldar friends if this plan is going to work, so he goes to the angry Saim Hann lot and after fighting his way through to them and surrounding them, manages to hold a successful parlay.
- The plan is basically "Take an aeldari ship, because they're stealthy to avoid radar, and have psykers to avoid the black legion's sorcerers' "psychic radar", fill it with a bunch of deathstrike missiles and ram the vengeful spirit like a fire ship, making Francis Drake proud."
- While this plan is going on, Abaddon and Calgar + their respective bodyguards have their duel. Calgar is trying to draw it out, and this is ok at the start, but eventually the superiority of Abaddon's wargear is really what does it, and Calgar gets sliced open, with his primary heart completely caput and his secondary one with a big dent in it. Just as Abaddon is about to finish him, Haarken gets word that the Vengeful Spirit is in trouble, and Abaddon falls back, which really pisses off his very thirsty sword.
- Sure enough, the plan worked, with the Imperial Navy's remaining ships trying to open up a path for the Aeldari (there's a funny little bit here about how they dragged so many ships for this attack away from other planets that the Necrons, etc just took them) and the Eldar managed to ram the Vengeful spirit, ripping a whopping great big hole in it. The ship is very nearly dead, but manages to pull off an emergency warp translation (and therefore will probably be fixed up and fine by the time the writers need it as a plot device), but this hands naval superiority/equality at least back to the Imperium.
- Calgar survives his grevious wounds, but is no longer able to fight on the front, instead directing everything from his apothecarion bed. Vigilus is still absolutely boned, but it's not quite over yet.
ScarletRose wrote: So status quo, nothing really gets accomplished and Abby wastes a bunch more resources?
Why not just call it 14th Black Crusade at this point?
Because
Spoiler:
It sounds like it's leading up to a third book from the reddit post where RobbyG comes back like a dad trying to find the bully that beat up his son. That's just my opinion though as I don't have any inside sources nor have I even read the actual book but rather just the post. Salt as needed to taste.
The Necrons being referenced as conquering planets off screen is both very funny and kinda sad considering the faction has been left out of the Vigilus story completely.
"And thus the Eldar holdings fell to the conquering Overlord, the great and terrible Nemesor Not-Appearing-In-This-Adventure."
The Necrons being referenced as conquering planets off screen is both very funny and kinda sad considering the faction has been left out of the Vigilus story completely.
"And thus the Eldar holdings fell to the conquering Overlord, the great and terrible Nemesor Not-Appearing-In-This-Adventure."
feels bad man.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
2019/03/23 20:56:03
Subject: Re:Shadow Spear / New Chaos Space Marines
i think the writers didnt do their research on what a Gloriana Class starship is...
Spoiler:
- Sure enough, the plan worked, with the Imperial Navy's remaining ships trying to open up a path for the Aeldari (there's a funny little bit here about how they dragged so many ships for this attack away from other planets that the Necrons, etc just took them) and the Eldar managed to ram the Vengeful spirit, ripping a whopping great big hole in it. The ship is very nearly dead, but manages to pull off an emergency warp translation (and therefore will probably be fixed up and fine by the time the writers need it as a plot device), but this hands naval superiority/equality at least back to the Imperium.
I know GW has to fit as many copywritten units/weapons into a story as possible, ut a deathstrike missile is a battlefield weapon, not a naval weapon and an Eldar ship is incredibly tiny. The Vengeful Spirit is something like ELEVEN miles long!
Keeper of the DomBox
Warhammer Armies - Click to see galleries of fully painted armies
32,000, 19,000, Renegades - 10,000 , 7,500,
Thanks for the link. It's very predictable in that plot armor reigns supreme and ultimately disappointing as it's no more definitive than an episode of Scooby Doo.
Not sure why you're surprised that 40K plot development follows Saturday morning cartoon rules. They have to reset the story at the end of the episode in order to keep selling the same action figures.
The Necrons being referenced as conquering planets off screen is both very funny and kinda sad considering the faction has been left out of the Vigilus story completely.
"And thus the Eldar holdings fell to the conquering Overlord, the great and terrible Nemesor Not-Appearing-In-This-Adventure."
Yeah, it does feel like a cheap sitcom cameo where the Fonz just shows up, gives the main characters the double thumbs up and an "eeeeeeyyyyy...", the crowd cheers, and he leaves after minor unimportant plot point #6 is resolved. The battle described basically reads to me like an 80's under the table holiday action figure fight where your Lion-O is just about to defeat He Man and his temporary ally Cobra Commander (who ended up in the toy bag brought over by accident) but Voltron came in to save the day and maintain the status quo. I think I'm just personally expecting too much from a supposedly mainstream wide age range targeted product debuting expensive brand new figures. I just keep hoping that just one of these main GW campaign ends up more like one of the (good) FW campaign books. Those are instead aimed towards an older even more niche crowd that doesn't expect or mind if their new character/fig bites suffers real consequences in the same book as he or she is introduced. Would it kill GW to take an old 2nd tier special character that they don't currently plan on updating for the next 5 years and actually kill them off on screen/page? Does every hero have to survive the century surrounding the great cataclysm that supposedly rendered the Great Imperium of Man in twain? I know some are just missing like iirc Sicarius with their fates unknown because they don't have room in the codex or in the production queue for a new model but that doesn't count.
Thanks for the link. It's very predictable in that plot armor reigns supreme and ultimately disappointing as it's no more definitive than an episode of Scooby Doo.
Not sure why you're surprised that 40K plot development follows Saturday morning cartoon rules. They have to reset the story at the end of the episode in order to keep selling the same action figures.
I was typing pretty much the same thing simultaneously (see above).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/23 21:05:30
2019/03/23 21:12:35
Subject: Re:Shadow Spear / New Chaos Space Marines
Kirasu wrote: i think the writers didnt do their research on what a Gloriana Class starship is...
Spoiler:
- Sure enough, the plan worked, with the Imperial Navy's remaining ships trying to open up a path for the Aeldari (there's a funny little bit here about how they dragged so many ships for this attack away from other planets that the Necrons, etc just took them) and the Eldar managed to ram the Vengeful spirit, ripping a whopping great big hole in it. The ship is very nearly dead, but manages to pull off an emergency warp translation (and therefore will probably be fixed up and fine by the time the writers need it as a plot device), but this hands naval superiority/equality at least back to the Imperium.
I know GW has to fit as many copywritten units/weapons into a story as possible, ut a deathstrike missile is a battlefield weapon, not a naval weapon and an Eldar ship is incredibly tiny. The Vengeful Spirit is something like ELEVEN miles long!
They also forget that those ships are equipped with powerful voidshields.
Thanks for the link. It's very predictable in that plot armor reigns supreme and ultimately disappointing as it's no more definitive than an episode of Scooby Doo.
Not sure why you're surprised that 40K plot development follows Saturday morning cartoon rules. They have to reset the story at the end of the episode in order to keep selling the same action figures.
You just got to read the introductions to the various legions, they're not exactly nuanced.
The Necrons being referenced as conquering planets off screen is both very funny and kinda sad considering the faction has been left out of the Vigilus story completely.
"And thus the Eldar holdings fell to the conquering Overlord, the great and terrible Nemesor Not-Appearing-In-This-Adventure."
It'd be so easy to just say "oh yeah and Vigilus system's 8th planet was a tomb world or whatever, so yeah. Necrons!!!!"
Still salty GW, give us a Specialist Detachment.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/23 21:20:33
Renegades - 
