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After some advice and thoughts about how these two match up please. I'm a nid player and am concerned that there is almost no way for me to get across the board and take on the firepower Tau can kick out. Happy to tweak the list slightly but want it to keep it reasonably balanced TAC.

Example lists @ 1500

2 tyrants, tl devs, old adversary and hive commander
Doom in spore
2 tervigons, 3 powers
2 x 10 gants
14 gargoyles
2 biovores
Skyshield (inv save can't be stripped by marker lights)

Commander, iridium, neuroweb, stim inj, fusion/missiles, drone cont, target lock, 2 marker drones
Ethereal
3 crisis, 2x missiles/plas, AFP/missiles/target lock, 4 gun drones
Riptide, ion, interceptor
2 x 9 fire warriors
6 fire warriors
12 kroot, snipers
6 pathfinders
4 marker drones
2 x 2 broadsides, hym, 2 missile drones
Skyray, Blacksun

I'm thinking of using hive commander so I can deep strike the tyrants and be fairly confident of getting them plus the doom in turn two and have three high threat targets in his face (possibly 4 if I outflank a troop)...but everything I start on the board will get mauled including the tervigons providing synapse. I'm really struggling to see how I can do much of anything except take models off the board! Tactics, tweaks and ideas all welcome.

Not enough gaunts. You need saturation, you need to drown the Tau in sheer numbers. The Tau are hurting for pieplates, so spam those gaunts to high heaven. Also Doom in a can still remains effective.

The 5 tervagon list has a shot, also doom can do dmg to tau as well. It's not auto loose but it's a real bad match up

I suggest to add Ymargls. They will work great as backfield disruption (as will doom). But don't deep strike your Flyrants. Keep your Tervigons and Flyrants out of LoS T1.

T2 get those gargoyles in screen position in front of Flyrants and get Endurance on the Flyrants.

Flyrants should typically have higher target priority than Tervigons so treat them the same way. Be super aggressive with them after T2 once your Ymargls come in and tie up a hard hitting unit.

Lastly, drop the skysheild....there's very little use for it an Tyranids. With it's requirement to being deployed in your own deployment zone, its a defensive strategy. Tyranids work much better when playing aggressively.

You have all you need to be able to give Tau a competitive game. Now all you have to do is to use some strategy. Also, it will help it you can get some favorable psychic powers, but you can't really count on that.

BTW, if you want to add anything, get more biovores. Biovores more than anything else will eat up his army. Dump the skyshield and get more biovores. Then hide them behind LOS-blocking terrain.

 jy2 wrote:
You have all you need to be able to give Tau a competitive game. Now all you have to do is to use some strategy. Also, it will help it you can get some favorable psychic powers, but you can't really count on that.

BTW, if you want to add anything, get more biovores. Biovores more than anything else will eat up his army.

People leave Firewarriors out in the open for your spore mines to blow up?

 Kain wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
You have all you need to be able to give Tau a competitive game. Now all you have to do is to use some strategy. Also, it will help it you can get some favorable psychic powers, but you can't really count on that.

BTW, if you want to add anything, get more biovores. Biovores more than anything else will eat up his army.

People leave Firewarriors out in the open for your spore mines to blow up?

Have you ever played against Tau before? They play similar to tyranids in that everyone wants to stay together. That means a massed amount of bodies in a small space, just ripe for large blasts. Do you think he can fit everyone into the same piece of area terrain?

Furthermore, with biovores, you are controlling his deployment and his movement. That is a huge bonus to tyranids. It keeps them away from objectives while you can just swarm the objectives. And if they split up, then they can't use support fire which makes it less deadly for your guys to charge them.

To charge headlong into Tau is a recipe for disaster for Tyranids. To control/limit their movement while you take objectives is how you beat Tau.

 jy2 wrote:


To charge headlong into Tau is a recipe for disaster for Tyranids. To control/limit their movement while you take objectives is how you beat Tau.

Which is fairly ironic, since fluid warfare is supposed to be the Tau way.

Anyway, perhaps the Tau will shift local metas enough for the competitive Tyranid list to include things that can start snacking on Tau in cover to further limit their movement. Ymgarls look like they were just designed to mess with cover-hopping fish people.

Kain wrote:Not enough gaunts. You need saturation, you need to drown the Tau in sheer numbers. The Tau are hurting for pieplates, so spam those gaunts to high heaven. Also Doom in a can still remains effective.

Good call, definitely worth a try but I'm worried about synapse. I don't think it's an issue for Tau to drop 2+ MC per turn.

krootman. wrote:The 5 tervagon list has a shot, also doom can do dmg to tau as well. It's not auto loose but it's a real bad match up

Thanks! But no thanks! Sound idea but dull, dull, dull!

roxor08 wrote:I suggest to add Ymargls. They will work great as backfield disruption (as will doom). But don't deep strike your Flyrants. Keep your Tervigons and Flyrants out of LoS T1.

T2 get those gargoyles in screen position in front of Flyrants and get Endurance on the Flyrants.

Flyrants should typically have higher target priority than Tervigons so treat them the same way. Be super aggressive with them after T2 once your Ymargls come in and tie up a hard hitting unit.

Lastly, drop the skysheild....there's very little use for it an Tyranids. With it's requirement to being deployed in your own deployment zone, its a defensive strategy. Tyranids work much better when playing aggressively.

Good call with ymargls but won't they get smoked by overwatch? Two min squads maybe so one can take the OW.

The problem is what if there's no Los blockers (not unusual at Warhammer World) and I'm going second? As above at least 2 MCs will be dropped a turn. It's difficult to get out of range as most threats are at 30 inch (markers) plus 6 movement and all the 36/42 inch missiles plus if I play the range game I'm going defensive and shafting myself anyway. That's when I thought about DS the tyrants...

jy2 wrote:You have all you need to be able to give Tau a competitive game. Now all you have to do is to use some strategy. Also, it will help it you can get some favorable psychic powers, but you can't really count on that.

BTW, if you want to add anything, get more biovores. Biovores more than anything else will eat up his army. Dump the skyshield and get more biovores. Then hide them behind LOS-blocking terrain.

I have thought about the extra biovores to target the troops but honestly I don't see it making the difference. Cheeky request; scale the Tau list up to take on your old Nids! I'd like to see how you'd play this as I got tabled turn 3 going second, 5 obj big guns book mission rules, no Los blockers (admittedly by myself playing proxy Tau for the first time ever!).

djn wrote:

Kain wrote:Not enough gaunts. You need saturation, you need to drown the Tau in sheer numbers. The Tau are hurting for pieplates, so spam those gaunts to high heaven. Also Doom in a can still remains effective.

Good call, definitely worth a try but I'm worried about synapse. I don't think it's an issue for Tau to drop 2+ MC per turn.

krootman. wrote:The 5 tervagon list has a shot, also doom can do dmg to tau as well. It's not auto loose but it's a real bad match up

Thanks! But no thanks! Sound idea but dull, dull, dull!

roxor08 wrote:I suggest to add Ymargls. They will work great as backfield disruption (as will doom). But don't deep strike your Flyrants. Keep your Tervigons and Flyrants out of LoS T1.

T2 get those gargoyles in screen position in front of Flyrants and get Endurance on the Flyrants.

Flyrants should typically have higher target priority than Tervigons so treat them the same way. Be super aggressive with them after T2 once your Ymargls come in and tie up a hard hitting unit.

Lastly, drop the skysheild....there's very little use for it an Tyranids. With it's requirement to being deployed in your own deployment zone, its a defensive strategy. Tyranids work much better when playing aggressively.

Good call with ymargls but won't they get smoked by overwatch? Two min squads maybe so one can take the OW.

The problem is what if there's no Los blockers (not unusual at Warhammer World) and I'm going second? As above at least 2 MCs will be dropped a turn. It's difficult to get out of range as most threats are at 30 inch (markers) plus 6 movement and all the 36/42 inch missiles plus if I play the range game I'm going defensive and shafting myself anyway. That's when I thought about DS the tyrants...

jy2 wrote:You have all you need to be able to give Tau a competitive game. Now all you have to do is to use some strategy. Also, it will help it you can get some favorable psychic powers, but you can't really count on that.

BTW, if you want to add anything, get more biovores. Biovores more than anything else will eat up his army. Dump the skyshield and get more biovores. Then hide them behind LOS-blocking terrain.

I have thought about the extra biovores to target the troops but honestly I don't see it making the difference. Cheeky request; scale the Tau list up to take on your old Nids! I'd like to see how you'd play this as I got tabled turn 3 going second, 5 obj big guns book mission rules, no Los blockers (admittedly by myself playing proxy Tau for the first time ever!).

So far my most reliable anti-tau list spams the hell out of Tervigons and gaunts, even if some of the victories were ragequits because resolving all the new Termie broods took forever and a half.

 jy2 wrote:
You have all you need to be able to give Tau a competitive game. Now all you have to do is to use some strategy. Also, it will help it you can get some favorable psychic powers, but you can't really count on that.

BTW, if you want to add anything, get more biovores. Biovores more than anything else will eat up his army. Dump the skyshield and get more biovores. Then hide them behind LOS-blocking terrain.

He makes a good point.

I would say drop old adversary, hive commander, and skyshield. This frees up 125 points. You can either take more biovores, or even a zoanthrope for better chances of getting endurance. also I assume the hive tyrants are flying. Or you can take a biovore and more gargoyles, round out your sqaud of 14 to say 20ish?

Yes Tau's shooting is nasty, but its not beatable. Biovores rain death, and the Flyrant 12 shots each twinlinked with precision shot so on a 6 to wound you can dictate where the wound goes. All these little things will help you, Bubble wrap your big bugs, line of gants, line of gargoyles, line of gants etc.. and if you get a endurance on the gargoyles they do become rather hard to kill.

The skyshield i feel is pointless, yes it gives you a invuln save, but only while in/on it. Do you plan to sit downfield and not advance?

Kain wrote:
So far my most reliable anti-tau list spams the hell out of Tervigons and gaunts, even if some of the victories were ragequits because resolving all the new Termie broods took forever and a half.

All those models just doesn't appeal to me, it's a lot of spawning and moving. Not for me.

BigTTeamawesome wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
You have all you need to be able to give Tau a competitive game. Now all you have to do is to use some strategy. Also, it will help it you can get some favorable psychic powers, but you can't really count on that.

BTW, if you want to add anything, get more biovores. Biovores more than anything else will eat up his army. Dump the skyshield and get more biovores. Then hide them behind LOS-blocking terrain.

He makes a good point.

I would say drop old adversary, hive commander, and skyshield. This frees up 125 points. You can either take more biovores, or even a zoanthrope for better chances of getting endurance. also I assume the hive tyrants are flying. Or you can take a biovore and more gargoyles, round out your sqaud of 14 to say 20ish?

Yes Tau's shooting is nasty, but its not beatable. Biovores rain death, and the Flyrant 12 shots each twinlinked with precision shot so on a 6 to wound you can dictate where the wound goes. All these little things will help you, Bubble wrap your big bugs, line of gants, line of gargoyles, line of gants etc.. and if you get a endurance on the gargoyles they do become rather hard to kill.

The skyshield i feel is pointless, yes it gives you a invuln save, but only while in/on it. Do you plan to sit downfield and not advance?

My pre-skyshield list had two zoans which help with synapse and additional psychic powers as you say. Not totally sold on the skyshield to be honest, but it does give a guaranteed 4 up for a turn on two on the MCs. It can be deployed upto the half way line so isn't as totally defensive as you might think. However I've realised that S7 missiles are the real hurt Tau put out rather than low volume, high strength, low AP shots...

How do you we deal with a bubble wrapped, 12 x S7 4x S5 on a 2+ platform with twin linkage and marker light support? two turns of that plus the crisis suits, riptide and seekers is horrific. Not to mention sniping kroot and S5 small arms fire.

Doom messes up Tau if you can survive interceptor. Two tips for Doom, a standard "Plasma Hatcher" spore will bloc LoS so Railsides can't ID him. Second, place him near enemy models so Blasts can't be fired at him. The Riptide, for example is great for interceptor, so deploy at 1" of a Tau unit so he can't place the blast on your Doom model. If you can get within 6" of Broadsides he can do major pain. Then, Ymgarls are also good, as most enemy's will spread out to avoid the Doom. If an opponent bunches up so that he gets lots of overwatch vs Ymgarls, then Biovores and the Doom will ruin his day.

Play style preference, but I would drop one of the flyrants for ymgral and more termigaunts. Only the Riptide has interceptor so that will be the one unit you have to worry about on arrival, and since there are no markerlights you should be getting cover saves.

jifel wrote:Doom messes up Tau if you can survive interceptor. Two tips for Doom, a standard "Plasma Hatcher" spore will bloc LoS so Railsides can't ID him. Second, place him near enemy models so Blasts can't be fired at him. The Riptide, for example is great for interceptor, so deploy at 1" of a Tau unit so he can't place the blast on your Doom model. If you can get within 6" of Broadsides he can do major pain. Then, Ymgarls are also good, as most enemy's will spread out to avoid the Doom. If an opponent bunches up so that he gets lots of overwatch vs Ymgarls, then Biovores and the Doom will ruin his day.

Thanks for tip, the tl fusion especially overcharged could definitely be harsh on the doom.

barnowl wrote:Play style preference, but I would drop one of the flyrants for ymgral and more termigaunts. Only the Riptide has interceptor so that will be the one unit you have to worry about on arrival, and since there are no markerlights you should be getting cover saves.

I see where you're going with that but I like the tyrants too much. I know the gargoyles are useful for screening and tying up threats but I wonder if I dropped them plus old adversary for 2 x 5 ymgarls I'd have a better chance?

djn wrote:

jifel wrote:Doom messes up Tau if you can survive interceptor. Two tips for Doom, a standard "Plasma Hatcher" spore will bloc LoS so Railsides can't ID him. Second, place him near enemy models so Blasts can't be fired at him. The Riptide, for example is great for interceptor, so deploy at 1" of a Tau unit so he can't place the blast on your Doom model. If you can get within 6" of Broadsides he can do major pain. Then, Ymgarls are also good, as most enemy's will spread out to avoid the Doom. If an opponent bunches up so that he gets lots of overwatch vs Ymgarls, then Biovores and the Doom will ruin his day.

Thanks for tip, the tl fusion especially overcharged could definitely be harsh on the doom.

barnowl wrote:Play style preference, but I would drop one of the flyrants for ymgral and more termigaunts. Only the Riptide has interceptor so that will be the one unit you have to worry about on arrival, and since there are no markerlights you should be getting cover saves.

I see where you're going with that but I like the tyrants too much. I know the gargoyles are useful for screening and tying up threats but I wonder if I dropped them plus old adversary for 2 x 5 ymgarls I'd have a better chance?

I am not sold Ymgarls. They get eaten by Tau's big overwatch. If your opponents is smart when deploying he would block your terrian or deploy far enough away that your charge wont make it. By the time turn 2 rolls around you wont have any back-up for the ymgarls.

Keep the gargs, try throwing an endurance on them, they do marvelous things lol. Also play to the objective not just trying to table your opponent. Line of sight blocking terrian is your friend, so if premeasuring.

 BigTTeamawesome wrote:


I am not sold Ymgarls. They get eaten by Tau's big overwatch. If your opponents is smart when deploying he would block your terrian or deploy far enough away that your charge wont make it. By the time turn 2 rolls around you wont have any back-up for the ymgarls.

Keep the gargs, try throwing an endurance on them, they do marvelous things lol. Also play to the objective not just trying to table your opponent. Line of sight blocking terrian is your friend, so if premeasuring.

The key to using Ymgarls successfully is subtlety in deployment. Depends on your table, but there should be a fair amount of area terrain, at least 3-4 in their zone and 2-3 more in threat range. Ymgarls deploy, then move (5-6 inches probably) and get a fleet charge, so reliably at least 7 inches, usually more. Try to find a space on the table not within 12" of a terrain peice... You can't I hope, or you need more terrain. Don't pick the single most obvious spot, but something in the middle is usually great, or on an edge or back. The dead center of your opponents deployment isn't always good, remember you choose after BOTH sides deploy. Ymgarls do depend on your army though, they don't fit every list. You need something to discourage enemies from grouping up a lot, which yes, in Taus case, would hurt Ymgarls. The Doom is the ultimate in this, but otherwise what helps is Biovores and Mawlocs. Hit an outlier unit with the Ymgarls, after a +1 T. If you are successful at breaking up their deployment, then only 1-2 will die to overwatch, not too shabby reall, the rest should be enough to beat them in CC. I run 2 broods of 5 , and they're all around very useful to me. Just don't throw them into an entire Tau army, they have to simply be a part of a reserve wave. For example, I use the Doom in SPod, 2x 5 Ymgarls and 2 Flyrants, enough to overwhelm most gunlines. Tau aren't IG, they have more interceptor, but it should be enough that you can wreck their lines. Biovores softening them up looks crucial to beating Tau though.

Have Doom ride with a second friend... the classic DISTRACTION CARNIFEX! Spore pod in your favorite 'Fex loadout with Doom. Now they either have to kill the gross psychic thing that'll eat their brains.... or the T6 thing that will straight just EAT them.

Also, ensure you drop the doom close enough so that he CANNOT intercept with any S8 pieplates... IE make sure the Doom gets a full 6" away from his pod and within 1" of an enemy squad. If he stays near the pod, the Tau player can target the pod such that the blast covers the Doom and two T4 dudes go "split" potentially.

Make him work for it!

Thanks for all the replies and ideas. I had another test game today with the same Tau list vs my Nids sans skyshield, gargoyles and old adversary. Replaced with 2 x 5 ymargls. DoW, kill points, Tau got first turn blew away a tervigon and took another down to one wound, was fortunate to get iron arm off at plus 3 for both tervigon and non warlord tyrant. The ymargls came in and took out the pathfinders and kroot but both squads got blown away by the broadsides on overwatch which is just savage. Doom came in turn 3 unfortunately and did some damage to the castle but I think I was playing it wrong as I used Ld 10 from the Ethereal on all squads within 12. I see how Doom is brutal to a Tau castle at base Ld.

Anyway big win to the Tau again...

Going to stick with the ymargls for a bit as I've always loved stealers since playing space hulk as a youngster.

You need more speed and less MC spam.

djn wrote:
Thanks for all the replies and ideas. I had another test game today with the same Tau list vs my Nids sans skyshield, gargoyles and old adversary. Replaced with 2 x 5 ymargls. DoW, kill points, Tau got first turn blew away a tervigon and took another down to one wound, was fortunate to get iron arm off at plus 3 for both tervigon and non warlord tyrant. The ymargls came in and took out the pathfinders and kroot but both squads got blown away by the broadsides on overwatch which is just savage. Doom came in turn 3 unfortunately and did some damage to the castle but I think I was playing it wrong as I used Ld 10 from the Ethereal on all squads within 12. I see how Doom is brutal to a Tau castle at base Ld.

Anyway big win to the Tau again...

Going to stick with the ymargls for a bit as I've always loved stealers since playing space hulk as a youngster.

Charging missilesides is going to be bad. TL just makes hitting to easy. Also be sure to remind any Tau player you face that the multi-tracker does not work for overwatch as RAW, since it is not a Shooting phase. This should ave you some bodies on the charge.

Hi Djn,

I think your list is fine (you could tweak here and there, but largely ok).

I've only played one game against the new Tau so far (see: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/521904.page#5557644) but I still learnt a lot from that game.

1. Supporting fire + overwatch is deadly. this means you want to try and hit the Tau on the flanks, where supporting fire will be limited rather then going up the centre. Also, try and have a throw away squad to charge in first and remove at least one lot of overwatch fire (particularly path finders if you can reach them!)

2. Don't get too concerned about the brutal beating your army will take on the trek over - this is inevitable, but you don't need many guys to make it into his troops to start carving them up whole sale.

3. Ethereals and Pathfinders are top priority, I would suggest ignoring most other elements in favour of these two at the start of the game.

4. Ignore the Riptide, you won't have anything to deal with him really except in CC. If you get into CC, your opponent is doing it wrong (as he should be using his nova gen to boost away 4d6)

Also - Ymgarls are good, but expensive, so you need to use them to their full ability. One of the best things I use them for is simply area denial for my opponent. They tend to avoid area terrain when they know these guys are going to pop up. This ties in well with Biovores (if you try them) - as their barrage weapon status means they will draw line of site from the blast, ignoring terrain that those fire warriors are behind. If they don't ignore the area terrain, select terrain where there is limited 'Support Fire' available, don't try to appear in the midst of his army, always pick off units on the flanks (I charged into 6 fire warriors with a Sniper drone team and Riptide in Support range, only lost 2 stealers as no marker lights hit and wiped the fire warriors. Opponent then needed to spend a turn firing at them rather then my more important units, allowing a Trygon/gant to charge and wipe the sniper drones the turn after).

Obviously all these comments are situational, so take them or leave them as you will.

barnowl wrote:

djn wrote:
Thanks for all the replies and ideas. I had another test game today with the same Tau list vs my Nids sans skyshield, gargoyles and old adversary. Replaced with 2 x 5 ymargls. DoW, kill points, Tau got first turn blew away a tervigon and took another down to one wound, was fortunate to get iron arm off at plus 3 for both tervigon and non warlord tyrant. The ymargls came in and took out the pathfinders and kroot but both squads got blown away by the broadsides on overwatch which is just savage. Doom came in turn 3 unfortunately and did some damage to the castle but I think I was playing it wrong as I used Ld 10 from the Ethereal on all squads within 12. I see how Doom is brutal to a Tau castle at base Ld.

Anyway big win to the Tau again...

Going to stick with the ymargls for a bit as I've always loved stealers since playing space hulk as a youngster.

Charging missilesides is going to be bad. TL just makes hitting to easy. Also be sure to remind any Tau player you face that the multi-tracker does not work for overwatch as RAW, since it is not a Shooting phase. This should ave you some bodies on the charge.

Remind anyone who tries this that the limit on firing only 1 weapons also only applies in the shooting phase (pg51 I believe). Therefore you can (RAW) fire 10 weapons in the assault or movement phase (if you're given the option to via overwatch or interceptor).

barnowl wrote:

djn wrote:
Thanks for all the replies and ideas. I had another test game today with the same Tau list vs my Nids sans skyshield, gargoyles and old adversary. Replaced with 2 x 5 ymargls. DoW, kill points, Tau got first turn blew away a tervigon and took another down to one wound, was fortunate to get iron arm off at plus 3 for both tervigon and non warlord tyrant. The ymargls came in and took out the pathfinders and kroot but both squads got blown away by the broadsides on overwatch which is just savage. Doom came in turn 3 unfortunately and did some damage to the castle but I think I was playing it wrong as I used Ld 10 from the Ethereal on all squads within 12. I see how Doom is brutal to a Tau castle at base Ld.

Anyway big win to the Tau again...

Going to stick with the ymargls for a bit as I've always loved stealers since playing space hulk as a youngster.

Charging missilesides is going to be bad. TL just makes hitting to easy. Also be sure to remind any Tau player you face that the multi-tracker does not work for overwatch as RAW, since it is not a Shooting phase. This should ave you some bodies on the charge.

It's not even directly charging the missilesides it's anything within within 6 ie everything else in the army probably.

slice'n'dice wrote:Hi Djn,

I think your list is fine (you could tweak here and there, but largely ok).

I've only played one game against the new Tau so far (see: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/521904.page#5557644) but I still learnt a lot from that game.

1. Supporting fire + overwatch is deadly. this means you want to try and hit the Tau on the flanks, where supporting fire will be limited rather then going up the centre. Also, try and have a throw away squad to charge in first and remove at least one lot of overwatch fire (particularly path finders if you can reach them!)

2. Don't get too concerned about the brutal beating your army will take on the trek over - this is inevitable, but you don't need many guys to make it into his troops to start carving them up whole sale.

3. Ethereals and Pathfinders are top priority, I would suggest ignoring most other elements in favour of these two at the start of the game.

4. Ignore the Riptide, you won't have anything to deal with him really except in CC. If you get into CC, your opponent is doing it wrong (as he should be using his nova gen to boost away 4d6)

Also - Ymgarls are good, but expensive, so you need to use them to their full ability. One of the best things I use them for is simply area denial for my opponent. They tend to avoid area terrain when they know these guys are going to pop up. This ties in well with Biovores (if you try them) - as their barrage weapon status means they will draw line of site from the blast, ignoring terrain that those fire warriors are behind. If they don't ignore the area terrain, select terrain where there is limited 'Support Fire' available, don't try to appear in the midst of his army, always pick off units on the flanks (I charged into 6 fire warriors with a Sniper drone team and Riptide in Support range, only lost 2 stealers as no marker lights hit and wiped the fire warriors. Opponent then needed to spend a turn firing at them rather then my more important units, allowing a Trygon/gant to charge and wipe the sniper drones the turn after).

Obviously all these comments are situational, so take them or leave them as you will.

Thanks for the advice.

1. Agreed! I managed to get one ymargl squad into both a kroot and pathfinder squad, lost one on the way in but the kroot ran and the pathfinders stuck. Only a couple of squads provided supporting fire as it was on a flank. My other squad got totally chewed up after failing an 8 inch charge.

2. I thought this but I lost too much on the way in. The brutality of the missilesides really has to be seen to be believed.

3. I think targeting the marker lights will be my priority next game to see if I can reduce the shooting effectiveness indirectly. Unfortunately it won't impact twin-linked missiles much.

4. Fair point I'm not too worried about the riptide, it needs three or four marker lights to really be effective.

I do like the ymargls for the prospect of messing with people's deployment and movement, I'll stick with two squads for now while I get used to using them. May drop one of them for a couple more biovores though at some point.

djn wrote:

barnowl wrote:

djn wrote:
Thanks for all the replies and ideas. I had another test game today with the same Tau list vs my Nids sans skyshield, gargoyles and old adversary. Replaced with 2 x 5 ymargls. DoW, kill points, Tau got first turn blew away a tervigon and took another down to one wound, was fortunate to get iron arm off at plus 3 for both tervigon and non warlord tyrant. The ymargls came in and took out the pathfinders and kroot but both squads got blown away by the broadsides on overwatch which is just savage. Doom came in turn 3 unfortunately and did some damage to the castle but I think I was playing it wrong as I used Ld 10 from the Ethereal on all squads within 12. I see how Doom is brutal to a Tau castle at base Ld.

Anyway big win to the Tau again...

Going to stick with the ymargls for a bit as I've always loved stealers since playing space hulk as a youngster.

Charging missilesides is going to be bad. TL just makes hitting to easy. Also be sure to remind any Tau player you face that the multi-tracker does not work for overwatch as RAW, since it is not a Shooting phase. This should ave you some bodies on the charge.

It's not even directly charging the missilesides it's anything within within 6 ie everything else in the army probably.

Broadsides are one of the few unit you can have much expectation of catching hung out alone.

9 biovores, plenty of terrain and an objective mission. What could possibly go wrong?

 ruminator wrote:
9 biovores, plenty of terrain and an objective mission. What could possibly go wrong?

"Oh god the Tau are sniping all our biovores like balloons! This was the worst idea!"

djn wrote:I'm not too worried about the riptide, it needs three or four marker lights to really be effective.

Umm, with nova charge giving his fusion gun an extra shot, a riptide can nearly take down a monstrous creature per turn of shooting. They do not need markerlights to beat up your dudes. Of course, that's assuming your monstrous creatures are even surviving against missile spam broadsides or the mass wight of S5 firepower thrown at them by small arms.

I wouldn't bother with the little critters either. With a handful of markerlights, you're talking about eating BS4 S5 weapons that ignore all your saves. And lots of them. And you've got to survive army-wide overwatch when you get there. Tau have always done unkind things to horde armies, and now it's basically pointless in a world where they ignore night fight and cover saves.

Tyranid CAN mass deepstrike with monstrous creatures, though. If you really packed in those malwocks, etc, you'd probably survive all the interceptor. Whether you'd also survive the rest of the shooting is rather more dubious. Otherwise, tyranid can also play the lost of mid-strength shots on durable platform game. Having dakkafexes get into a slug-fest against riptides and broadsides seems less than ideal, though.

 Ailaros wrote:

djn wrote:I'm not too worried about the riptide, it needs three or four marker lights to really be effective.

Umm, with nova charge giving his fusion gun an extra shot, a riptide can nearly take down a monstrous creature per turn of shooting. They do not need markerlights to beat up your dudes. Of course, that's assuming your monstrous creatures are even surviving against missile spam broadsides or the mass wight of S5 firepower thrown at them by small arms.

3 S7 shots at BS3 and 2 S8 at BS3 twin linked when you're in cover isn't going to nearly kill a tervigon or a flying tyrant. Being generous against a tervigon; 4 hits, 3 wounds and 1 save made is 2 wounds gone. Against a flyrant 1 hit and 2 wounds from grounding and the weapon, again being very generous.

Missilesides are indeed the issue...a well run and bubble wrapped core of those is just about impossible to shift for Nids in my opinion. Unless you spam biovores as already mentioned then you may have a chance. Nearly a third of an army in biovores isn't really very balanced though.

djn wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:

djn wrote:I'm not too worried about the riptide, it needs three or four marker lights to really be effective.

Umm, with nova charge giving his fusion gun an extra shot, a riptide can nearly take down a monstrous creature per turn of shooting. They do not need markerlights to beat up your dudes. Of course, that's assuming your monstrous creatures are even surviving against missile spam broadsides or the mass wight of S5 firepower thrown at them by small arms.

3 S7 shots at BS3 and 2 S8 at BS3 twin linked when you're in cover isn't going to nearly kill a tervigon or a flying tyrant. Being generous against a tervigon; 4 hits, 3 wounds and 1 save made is 2 wounds gone. Against a flyrant 1 hit and 2 wounds from grounding and the weapon, again being very generous.

Missilesides are indeed the issue...a well run and bubble wrapped core of those is just about impossible to shift for Nids in my opinion. Unless you spam biovores as already mentioned then you may have a chance. Nearly a third of an army in biovores isn't really very balanced though.

The S7 and S8 shots are AP 2 and 1, using Markerlights' scour, you will have no save (save for invulnerable). If there are more than 2 Markerlights he will be able to up the BS, and if you have Shadowsun/Support Commander (who can also grant ignore cover,) you can TL all the weapons.
With the 2 slots open for Support System, you can give the Riptide Interceptor and Skyfire. It will be hitting the Flyrant just like anything else.

The Tau are built around synergy between units, especially Markerlights.

EDIT: I would have to say a bigger threat to the Flyrant would be the Sky Ray Missile Defence Gunship. With its Networked Markerlights, ability to fire its Seeker Missiles at its own BS, and Skyfire, it could down any flyer it one volley. If another squad gets a Markerlight hit on the flyer, the Sky Ray can boost its BS to 5, and fire its 2 Networked Markerlights. If both hit, it can remove the cover of what it is shooting and fire all 6 BS5 S8 AP3 missile with Ignore Cover and 4 BS5 S5 AP5 TL Ignore Cover.