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Like in the title...After reading a comment how "Brothers of the Snake was bad"; I'm interested
which HH 40k books did you literary closed and never opened again ??? Personally I closed "Fear to tread" after I fell asleep few times while reading

 DarthMarko wrote:
Personally I closed "Fear to tread" after I fell asleep few times while reading

Reported for dangerously terrible taste.

Not sure what I would pick. Cain sort of pushed my interest away, but it wasn't "bad". First and Only is pretty stale as well, Christ I hope GG gets better.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 DarthMarko wrote:
Personally I closed "Fear to tread" after I fell asleep few times while reading

Reported for dangerously terrible taste.

Well, my taste is my taste - thing is I don't like Swallow's style of writing and I find BA really boring, so 2 + 2 =

Fear to Tread was my first Swallow book, tbh.

It put him on the map for me. I'd put it up there with some of Abnett, McNeil, and ADB's best work. I was actually surprised. I am gonna try out his other books to see if that was just a fluke.

The Battle for the Abyss or whatever it is called is just wtf terrible.

I dont know what book it was but I picked up some crap by King about the SW read one page and then threw at some guy wearing a George Bush for president t-shirt.

JWhex wrote:
The Battle for the Abyss or whatever it is called is just wtf terrible.

Quoted for truth. The party of mixed marines from various legions are all neigh unstoppable, and the Word Bearer antagonists are 30% dumber than the worst B-movie villain you can imagine. The worst part is where the World eater destroys a Dreadnought just like that IIRC.

A total BS read. Avoid at all costs. And if you do read it anyway and need your faith in Word Bearer capabilities restored, the read Know no fear instead and watch the smurfs get some punishment.

To be honest I thought the Word Bearers kind of sucked in KNF, outside of the opening attack.

They're basically guardsmen. They only really pose a threat to the Ultramarines if they outnumber them.

 DarthMarko wrote:
Like in the title...After reading a comment how "Brothers of the Snake was bad"; I'm interested
which HH 40k books did you literary closed and never opened again ??? Personally I closed "Fear to tread" after I fell asleep few times while reading

Basically most of "Space Marines Battles" are almost unreadable and sub-par IMO (Rynn's World, Purging of Kadillus and Architect of Fate are exceptions to prove the rule), but i didn't even try to read any after "Architect of Fate" - i'm not mouse to "hurt and cry but continue to eat cactus".
As my personal tastes go - everything of H.Zou is far worse than despised C.S. Goto (oh, and so DoW2 - not by him). Also disliked Thorpe's Penal Legion series.

And special mention as "worst WH40k book ever" goes to "Redemption Corps" - like Zou's books, i'd even not looked up "how it all ended" - but unlike Zou's ones, this one is literally BAD writing.

Manned to finish that first Horus Heresy book with Gavriel in it, but it bored the crap out of me and there its no way I would waste my time on another... However, way way back there was a book called Space Marine that was brutal! Same time as a Warhammer Fantasy book called Drachenfel. They were fantastic.
I stole one of them from my school library actually, they were that good.

The Greater Good (most recent Cain book) was pretty much the definition of "phoning it in." Though the cover promises an Imperial/Tau alliance we're treated to Cain and Jurgen going against Tyranids almost single-handed...again. For those who haven't read the books, the idea is that they are Cain's memoirs being edited by Inquisitor Vail, who drops in footnotes here and there. It used to be that these footnotes were quite amusing, but now they just drop in completely irrelevant information that serves only as a pointless distraction and doesn't even attempt to be funny anymore. For example, Cain will say something about how he started firing las-shots at the Genestealers (you can't move for Genestealers in these books) and now a footnote will add some useless detail like "so clearly Cain had his laspistol with him, though as usual he doesn't bother to mention it." Jokes are just recycled endlessly...I fear the series may have jumped the shark with this book (probably jumped the Genestealer, more likely).

I thought Horus Rising and False Gods were brilliant... And then came Galaxy In Flames which was like pulling teeth which was dreadfully boring.

IMO Swallow did a good job with Flight of the Einstein.

 DarthMarko wrote:
Personally I closed "Fear to tread" after I fell asleep few times while reading

This explains a lot.

I were not amused when Ciaphas Cain chased a Greater Daemon who acted like a Giant of WHFB in how it actually battled things and proceeded to run away in abject terror.

I forgot about Rynn's World, I ended up skimming huge chunks of that and it never seemed to end. It felt like a single-page fluff piece from a Codex bloated to novel length. If ever a book urgently needed some editing...

I did not enjoy Fear to Tread either, although I'm not a fan of Swallows writing style it seems. I found Sanguinius came across as overly soft and whiny, and very heavy on the angelic imagery, whilst the Daemons were childlike and frustrating (possibly unsurprisingly).
The Word Bearers were pretty cool though.

I also second the criticism of the Space Wolf omnibi and 'Abyss.

Flicked through Legion the other day though: that books great.

The only Horus Heresy book I've not wanted to put down was Mechanicum.

The rest was just boring marine fanwank retelling of Paradise lost (within the framework of the 40k universe). Pretty much like EVERY other book about marines. I had some Ultramarine and Space Wolf novels but gave them away because they were sooo bad. The SW especially. If I want to read proper epic norse legendary stuff, I have copies of the Eddas.

Otherwise, only Dan Abnett's Eisenhorn/Ravenor books have stood up to repeated readings.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
To be honest I thought the Word Bearers kind of sucked in KNF, outside of the opening attack.

They're basically guardsmen. They only really pose a threat to the Ultramarines if they outnumber them.

So Kor Phaeron almost destroying Rowboat Girlyman with a psychic attack doesn't count in your opinion then?
Damn, you're not the forgiving type I reckon

 Void__Dragon wrote:
To be honest I thought the Word Bearers kind of sucked in KNF, outside of the opening attack.

They're basically guardsmen. They only really pose a threat to the Ultramarines if they outnumber them.

FWIW, it was noted at at least one point during the novel that the Word Bearers were using pretty weak tactics; because they were too eager to engage and rip apart the Ultramarines in hand-to-hand etc. (think zealousness and fervour). I recall the narration describing how the Word Bearers appeared to eschew ranged weaponry and conventional tactics and this cost them, particularly as the Ultras are the opposite.

Edit: I think this idea may also be because of the Ultramarines viewpoint? It was pretty clear that the Word Bearers were kicking ass all over the planet and the Ultras were suffering heavy losses; it just may have been less overt (although it wasn't really a problem for me) because of the Ventanus-perspective.

Read Betrayer.

It goes out of its way to give context to Battle for the Abyss in a meaningful, and in my opinion, satisfying way as well as explains why the Word Bearers were dying in droves in KNF.

The Swallow BA books all feel like cheap fanfiction and not actual novels.

I did not like the HH Dark Angels books as they felt to diconected to the main story and no one in them grabbed me.

Not keen on the Soul Drinkers as they seemed to deviate from my view of the 40k universe too much.

Battle for the Abyss seemed pointless and dull

I were not amused when Ciaphas Cain chased a Greater Daemon who acted like a Giant of WHFB in how it actually battled things and proceeded to run away in abject terror

Which one was this - was this the Greater Daemon of Slaanesh who he still has dreams / nightmares about until he dies and only defeated due to Jurgans abilities?

Outside HH, Goto's books are the absolute low point. Even BL is now ashamed of him.

Having just finished Horus Rising I don't think I'll rush to read any more HH books. As usual for Abnett the scene-setting is great, as are the descriptions of fancy technology and alien cultures, but as for the characters...I prefer to see Space Marines acting like professional fighters, not like a bunch of squabbling moody teenagers. I particularly disliked the scene where a diplomatic mission turns into all-out war (a situation which would never have happened if both sides had engaged their brains for a second) and Horus whines about his job being too hard.

 Just Dave wrote:
I did not enjoy Fear to Tread either, although I'm not a fan of Swallows writing style it seems. I found Sanguinius came across as overly soft and whiny, and very heavy on the angelic imagery, whilst the Daemons were childlike and frustrating (possibly unsurprisingly).
The Word Bearers were pretty cool though.

I don't really recall Sanguinius whining, tbh. He was terrified that if the genetic flaw of the Legion were to become public knowledge, his Legion might suffer sanction, which to be fair there is precedence for (Hints regarding two missing Legions, talks of destroying the Thousand Sons Legion before Magnus came).

Soft?



Though he is certainly in touch with his sensitive side, which I felt fit his character well.

The Daemons coming off as sort of immature was deliberate, the Word Bearer actually notes that they weren't really any different from humans, perhaps even less.

Ka'Bhanda basically didn't give a gak about anything though. Kyriss was just a punk, lol.

 Just Dave wrote:
I did not enjoy Fear to Tread either, although I'm not a fan of Swallows writing style it seems. I found Sanguinius came across as overly soft and whiny, and very heavy on the angelic imagery, whilst the Daemons were childlike and frustrating (possibly unsurprisingly).

Thousand time THIS^....Opening of the book was epic though, and then yada, yada, yada...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 dreamakuma wrote:
The Swallow BA books all feel like cheap fanfiction and not actual novels.

 DarthMarko wrote:
Like in the title...After reading a comment how "Brothers of the Snake was bad"; I'm interested
which HH 40k books did you literary closed and never opened again ??? Personally I closed "Fear to tread" after I fell asleep few times while reading

For me that would have to be "Battle for the Abyss"

I just couldn't get into it.

Blakman wrote:
So Kor Phaeron almost destroying Rowboat Girlyman with a psychic attack doesn't count in your opinion then?
Damn, you're not the forgiving type I reckon

I wasn't counting Kor Phaeron or Sorot Tchure in my analysis, frankly. They were both pretty legit.

But this is the same book where we see an Ultramarine get shot in the visor by a bolter... And then he proceeds to blow the Word Bearer's head and helmet off, suffering only superficial injury.

Abnett-grade plot armour is strong.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
To be honest I thought the Word Bearers kind of sucked in KNF, outside of the opening attack.

They're basically guardsmen. They only really pose a threat to the Ultramarines if they outnumber them.

 Just Dave wrote:
FWIW, it was noted at at least one point during the novel that the Word Bearers were using pretty weak tactics; because they were too eager to engage and rip apart the Ultramarines in hand-to-hand etc. (think zealousness and fervour). I recall the narration describing how the Word Bearers appeared to eschew ranged weaponry and conventional tactics and this cost them, particularly as the Ultras are the opposite.

Edit: I think this idea may also be because of the Ultramarines viewpoint? It was pretty clear that the Word Bearers were kicking ass all over the planet and the Ultras were suffering heavy losses; it just may have been less overt (although it wasn't really a problem for me) because of the Ventanus-perspective.

What is happening across the planet, aka, that we do not see, means exactly nothing to me. What is written is all that matters.

As written, Ultramarines can take bolter shots to the face (This is actually accurate to the fluff), but Word Bearers do not have the same protection on their friggin' chest plate lol.

Also, this is the same book where we see a Daemon Prince throw a 316 ton Shadowsword with enough force to destroy it, then with a push it destroys the fortified walls of a bunker. Then Ventanus jumps on its head and stabs it. One dead Daemon Prince.

Anything by C.S. Goto, as cliche as that sounds.