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I have Marneus Calgar in terminator armor and with honor guard if 6-7 power fist/sword attacks he is pretty un-defeatable even against a squad of 30 ork boyz if he is lucky with the armor saves. He also has epic shooting 24" assault 2 S4 AP2 - And has re roll to wound with ranged and cc attacks. I play him in multiple character bashes and even against gazghull? (spelling)??? in cc he usually wins by about 1 wound. Is there an HQ which can defeat him? NOte he is good against all the high power hqs with power swords etc like draigo, vulkan, sicarius,etc because they cant pierce his armor.

What are the stats of a swarmlord and abbadon???

There are many HQs that could beat Marneus, he's really not all that good

The Swarmlord would tear him a new one fairly easily

 Explosivo111 wrote:
There are many HQs that could beat Marneus, he's really not all that good

The Swarmlord would tear him a new one fairly easily

Abbadon would rip him a new one

In combat? Maybe.

In "general"? There are many better than him. The best HQ in my opinion isn't a giant cc beatstick, they should be able to buff the rest of the army in some way. In that respect Coteaz is a better HQ than Calgar.

He is good, but think about this. Yes, he beat a 30 man boy's squad with ease, but the squad he was in was most likely around 600 points, much of that purely on calgar. The boy's squad was maybe 180ish points?

Calgar and some honour guard vs 90 boy's, is a more fair comparison, and in that case, he would almost certainly lose.

Monstrous creature HQ's have a good chance of crushing him. Draigo, with terminators, definitely would.

In short, yes, he is good when you pile points into him, But in doing so, you make the rest of your army weaker, so people will most likely simply tarpit, bait, or avoid his squad,and concentrate on the rest of your army.

I think with mathhammer Abbadon will take anyone in a 1v1.

xdras wrote:
I have Marneus Calgar in terminator armor and with honor guard if 6-7 power fist/sword attacks he is pretty un-defeatable even against a squad of 30 ork boyz if he is lucky with the armor saves. He also has epic shooting 24" assault 2 S4 AP2 - And has re roll to wound with ranged and cc attacks. I play him in multiple character bashes and even against gazghull? (spelling)??? in cc he usually wins by about 1 wound. Is there an HQ which can defeat him?

Can kill him 1v1 in CC: Swarmlord, Abaddon, possibly Darnath Lysander, Bloodthirster

Can out-shoot him: Almost anything.

Are better at buffing the army: (Debatably) Pedro Kantor, Darnath Lysander, Abaddon, (Some Tau HQ's?)

More points-efficient: Several

Cheaper: Most HQ's.

He's got some nice army wide special rules. He's a giant beatstick in CC. He costs the same as a land raider.

I'm a firm believer in boys before toys. I'd rather have more boots on the ground, or treads churning up turf, then a few tricked out characters. Too many eggs is one basket. Take a bare-bones generic HQ, give him just enough wargear to get the job done, and save the points.

"Best" is very subjective. Different HQs shine in various situations. I think Calgar is good enough to throw his hat into the ring to claim to be one of the best, but you are never going to get a consensus on who holds the top spot.

In close combat? Guys like Abaddon and the Swarmlord take his lunch money, in shooting Shas'O'ra'lai and the Doom of Malan'tai makes him look like a wuss, in sheer difficulty to get rid of Trazyn and Lysander are comfortably above him, in generalship Creed and Aun'Va have him beat hands down. But the thing is, Marneus can do all that at once. He can buff your army pretty well, he can be that beat stick, he is kind of a pain to keep down, he can be kind of shooty with that silly AP value on his gun. Like the marine army itself, he's essentially the mario of super expensive special characters, he can do pretty much anything but can't measure up to the specialists in their fields.

In my opinion the best HQ is a chaos lord. For 65 points you get a fearless squad, a moderately tough fighter and a your HQ choice filled.

Then you can spend all your other points on men who will actually do things.

Sure, sometimes a strong HQ is a great thing. But I think the strength of a HQ lies in what they can bring to your army. If the answer is 'not much' then just spend as little as possible and buy more bodies!

 lunarman wrote:
In my opinion the best HQ is a chaos lord. For 65 points you get a fearless squad, a moderately tough fighter and a your HQ choice filled.

Then you can spend all your other points on men who will actually do things.

Sure, sometimes a strong HQ is a great thing. But I think the strength of a HQ lies in what they can bring to your army. If the answer is 'not much' then just spend as little as possible and buy more bodies!

When most players see Abaddon or the Swarmlord (especially when Swarmy is hopped up on Iron Arm and Warp speed/TK shield/Endurance) they tend to go into the "oh god kill it now" mindset and alter their tactics to try and stop the beat stick from getting to something important and reducing it to mulch.

Best HQ?
Company Command Squad with Master of Ordinance.

Selym wrote:

xdras wrote:
I have Marneus Calgar in terminator armor and with honor guard if 6-7 power fist/sword attacks he is pretty un-defeatable even against a squad of 30 ork boyz if he is lucky with the armor saves. He also has epic shooting 24" assault 2 S4 AP2 - And has re roll to wound with ranged and cc attacks. I play him in multiple character bashes and even against gazghull? (spelling)??? in cc he usually wins by about 1 wound. Is there an HQ which can defeat him?

Can kill him 1v1 in CC: Swarmlord, Abaddon, possibly Darnath Lysander, Bloodthirster

Can out-shoot him: Almost anything.

Are better at buffing the army: (Debatably) Pedro Kantor, Darnath Lysander, Abaddon, (Some Tau HQ's?)

More points-efficient: Several

Cheaper: Most HQ's.

Shrike's also got a good buff- infiltrate for his squad, fleet for everyone!
and yeah, Lysander would take him in a fight- the 3++ storm shield and S10 hammer will come in damn useful.

Swarmlord with good psychic rolls is way better.

An Ork warboss in a speedo is better than Marneus Calgar, because ORKS IZ GREEN AN' GREEN IZ BEST!

Ghazzkull in a Greentide to do waagh's all the game 2+ inv for him :3

Now datz how you do a punch!

Marneus isn't worth the points, in my opinion. There are decent army wide buffs and he's fairly good in combat, but it's such a high pointsink and he's still very killable. Like phatonic said, Ghazkull would just kick Marneus Calgar and his entire honor guard so hard that he trips back to last tuesday, where Ghazkull is waiting to beat him up again.

The best HQ in the SM codex is without a doubt......MOTF with conversion beamer.

The "Best HQ" is the one you hate to see the most. Therefore, we have Eldrad, Coteaz, Draigo, Flyrants, and Rune Priests. Of these, Eldrad is in my mind the best characterin the game, end of the line. He's not broken due to the army he's in, but 1 on 1 he is a beast. Coteaz is second, third is Rune Priests.

 jifel wrote:
The "Best HQ" is the one you hate to see the most. Therefore, we have Eldrad, Coteaz, Draigo, Flyrants, and Rune Priests. Of these, Eldrad is in my mind the best characterin the game, end of the line. He's not broken due to the army he's in, but 1 on 1 he is a beast. Coteaz is second, third is Rune Priests.

I'd put Abaddon on the list - opponents happily dump half their entire army's firepower onto him just to make sure he never gets into combat.

My two cents: Coteaz.
I hate that little golden fether with a burning passion. He takes an army that's already good (but aging now, I suppose) and makes it way more efficient.

If we're taking into consideration the buffs they apply to your army (and it sounds as though we are) then my money has to go on Vulkan. I probably get more mileage out of my twin-linked weapons than out of any other commander I've used. If you breakdown his wargear, then it's clear that you're getting this buff for a remarkably small points premium. And he still comes in under 200 points!

In 1v1 you can't forget a Necron Overlord with mindshackle scarabs. As soon as Calgar starts punching himself in the face with those powerfists, it's gonna be ugly. If he somehow survives he is still getting hit with STR7 warscythe attacks.

He's a pretty poor HQ choice when you take into account his points cost. The SM codex is full of great special characters: Vulkan and Pedro are awesome and Lysander isn't terrible.
Other codices put the SM HQs to shame though.

 Griddlelol wrote:
He's a pretty poor HQ choice when you take into account his points cost. The SM codex is full of great special characters: Vulkan and Pedro are awesome and Lysander isn't terrible.
Other codices put the SM HQs to shame though.

Most notably from the SM's polar opposite, the CSM. They're army-making HQ's there.

Since we're ignoring points: full Farsight bomb with 6x dual fusion suits, support suit making it all twin-linked/tank hunters/ignore cover, a giant blob of gun drones, and Shadowsun for the 2++. That should remove Calgar and his entire honor guard from the table in a single shooting phase.

For space marines, he is certainly the best as an All Rounder.

He is an excellent buffer, but not up to the standards of Vulkan.
He is an excellent beatstick, though not to the same degree as Lysander.
He is an excellent support character but not to the same degrees as Tiguirius, Khan, or even Sicarius who gives buffs whilst retaining army wide combat tactics, allowing for other characters to buff further.
He is an excellent character to build an army (of Honour Guard) around, though not as fluff, strong or entirely useful as
Kantor Sternguard or Cassius Tyranid fighters.


He does however excel in leadership with his God of War, and a combination of Orbital Bombardment, AP stormbolter and TDA means he can rack up a fair killcount before dying, and paired with a Chapter Banner Squad he can dish out a lot of pain in CC, whilst having the Chapter Champion gobble or be gobbled up by challengers. His Teleport homer allows those Lysander lead Assault Terminator Squads to land within striking distance. He can be paired with Sicarius, Tiguirius and/or Cassius and culminate the effects, unlike the Chapter Specifics who override each other generally. Overall I feel he is the best as an all rounder.

He moves 6" a turn.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
He moves 6" a turn.

As does everything else in the game without a bike, wings or a jump pack.

I couldn't say for sure if he's the best, but I've always like Typhus a lot. A real tough guy and a psyker to boot. Not to mention plague zombies, excellent units and hilarious to throw at people.

 Peregrine wrote:
Since we're ignoring points: full Farsight bomb with 6x dual fusion suits, support suit making it all twin-linked/tank hunters/ignore cover, a giant blob of gun drones, and Shadowsun for the 2++. That should remove Calgar and his entire honor guard from the table in a single shooting phase.

Make it dual plasma rifles and I think you can kill him and his honor guard twice over @ 12".