Defeat In Detail: Troublemaker games crowdfunding 6mm plastics – FUNDED!

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**Apologist**

+++EDIT+++
Funded!

Into the stretch goals now.

DEFEAT IN DETAIL

Troublemaker games are looking for funding on a 6mm plastics sprue campaign – called DEFEAT IN DETAIL.

These would be good for games like Future War Commander and, of course, GW's Epic. With the plug finally pulled on my favourite 6mm line, this is good news to see a potential future.

http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/6mm-scale-armies
It's currently a dual army sprue of little army guys and axe-wielding brutes. With sufficient funds, Troublemaker want to split the sprue into two, one for each army.

Stretch goals will:

Ideally, as pledges grow, I'd like to start swapping figures. So three aliens will become little slaves, three will become leaders, two will aquire heavy guns, etc. Also, plastic scenery & metal tanks. :-)

...and there will be metal additions to increase the versatility of the vehicles on the sprue:

Oh, on additional turret options, that's definitely inline to happen - the human IFV has been designed so that other weapons (cast in metal) can be plugged on to it, so artillery versions, AA vehicles, flame tanks, etc, all are possible.

My idea was that if we hit the initial target, I'll unlock those metal addons, both as separate purchases, and as combined sets.
For example (prices plucked at random from the air, I've not run the numbers on them yet):
- £6 - 5x Artillery addons for the human IFV
- £15 - 3x Artillery addons for the human IFV & 3x Plastic Sprues
- 1 only - £40 - 5x Artillery addons for the human IFV & 5x Plastic sprues, plus you get naming rights for the Artillery vehicle.

A future stretch goal includes this rather spiffy tank:

...and another is a set of rules based on their fantastic Timeline 300 game, designed for their cool 10mm Steampunk range.

**Riquende**

Good to see people stepping up to the plate to serve the 6mm fans, who'd have thought there'd be a market for stuff like this?

**Eilif**

Very interesting. The base pledge is actually quite appealing.
140 infantry and 10 tanks for 35 bucks or so.

**Apologist**

From the discussion thread on Tactical Command (http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=126&t=25146), it looks like there's some exciting stuff coming up

Also, the campaign's been updated with stretch goal pathways.

Stretch Goals Pathway

Here's our current pathway for funding:

- £2250 - Initial Goal.
- £3500 - Plastic Terrain.
- £8000 - Create three separate new Sprues (one human, one alien, and a third sprue of just bases - we'll also keep the original combined sprue available too).
- £onwards - Extra model types.

If as we unlock further stretch goals, you want to change your pledge over from the early mixed sprue to a different plastic sprue, you'll be able to do that.

We'll probably be scattering in a few smaller goals as we go along, too.

And finally, if we get to at least the Plastic Terrain stage, we'll be releasing a boxed game set, with a rules system, dice, lots of models (including a few metal ones) & plastic scenery, all in one combined bundle.

Sounds great to me – and plastic scenery is a great surprise!

**scarletsquig**

This was already posted, but your OP is a lot better and you seem more interested in keeping the thread updated as the campaign progresses, so lets stick with this one.

I'll copy my post over from the other thread:

Wow, really cool kickstarter, and only £22 to get a decent little army pack.

Thanks for sharing, this is awesome.

Not often you see something with hard plastic sprues, especially at this scale!

I see from the description that these are the people who did all the 3d sculpts for Mantic lately (the deadzone terrain, men-at-arms, dreadball robots), which is awesome.. they're great sculptors.

This has over 40 days to run, so I'm pretty sure I'll be able to find at least £22 for this at some point.

The £150 pledges to name the human and alien factions have massive potential for trolling. :p

**Lansirill**

Interesting. I'm not entirely sure it's worth buying into for what you get, but it might be worth funding just to get more 6mm stuff being made. I'll have to keep an eye on it.

**Apologist**

This was already posted, but your OP is a lot better and you seem more interested in keeping the thread updated as the campaign progresses, so lets stick with this one.

(This one was up first – if only barely!

)

+++

Interesting. I'm not entirely sure it's worth buying into for what you get, but it might be worth funding just to get more 6mm stuff being made. I'll have to keep an eye on it.

That's very much my view of it at the moment.

I like the models, but I'm mainly pledging to show my support for the concept. Current discussion on the TacComms thread (and the Indiegogo site) seems to imply that if the target is met, the first stretch will be for a separate base sprue.

This will mean that the space on the model sprue will be replaced with many more models. Judging from the space there, it'll double the models you receive, which will go a long way to improving the value of the initial buy-in.

What I'm more excited by are the bolt-ons – Troublemaker are talking about small metal sprues with different sculpts on. These'll be available as add-ons to pledges, but with sufficient funding, might find themselves on the main sprue.

Apparently, it's £600 to get a single sculpt on to the sprue; but then free to duplicate it as many times as you wish – hence the monopose models. If sufficient stretches are reached, additional sculpts – like small alien slaves, heavy weapons and the like – will find themselves on the sprue. The potential value's great, and I've got a lot of good experience in buying from Troublemaker.

As scarletsquig says:

I see from the description that these are the people who did all the 3d sculpts for Mantic lately (the deadzone terrain, men-at-arms, dreadball robots), which is awesome.. they're great sculptors.

+++Edit+++
From the horse's mouth:

We’ll have info on splitting off the bases from the sprue on the page tonight, but the short version is that if we hit £3500 funding, the Defeat In Detail box will contain more infantry & tanks, plus separate bases, for no extra cost to you.

**nkelsch**

I like the idea.

I am not sure how it costs 'more' to add a sculpt to a sprue. Tooling a sprue should cost the same regardless of how varied the design is it seems. Machining a sprue off a 3D design should care how varied the computer model is.

**Apologist**

I was a bit confused by that, too. Here's the explanation from Ben at Troublemaker, replying to the same query on the TacComms forum:

Quote:
Really!? What's the reason for that initial cost? Just tooling the mould? Does it involve addition to the 14 already there or simply replacing some of them with the new pose?

Allow me to clarify- £600 to setup the machine to cut the tool with a particular sculpt, and then you can cut that sculpt into the tool as many times as you like. So £600 (after paypal fees etc.) would let us do 7x pose A & 7x pose B, instead of 14x pose A.

We could also cut that sculpt onto a completely different sprue tool, and it wouldn't cost anything above and beyond what the basic tool costs. So we could do a tool of 40x Pose A and 40x Pose B at some point down the line for a (relatively) low setup cost.

Or indeed, a tool of 20x Pose A, 25x Pose B, & 4x IFV's... and that's the point at which we invest in a totally separate sprue of bases.

But yeah, after a while you definitely get diminishing returns and you're better off setting up a new tool than you are trying to add one more infantry pose type onto a sprue that already has 10 poses on it.

**nkelsch**

So I guess it isn't machine time or wear, but the cost of programming the machine to do complex cutting into the metal.

Still seems odd to me. But I may get a few for my orks.

**Evil & Chaos**

So I guess it isn't machine time or wear, but the cost of programming the machine to do complex cutting into the metal.

Yup - it's all about setting the machine up to do the complex micro-surgery-like motions to cut the steel.
Once that's been done once, we can tell the machine to do it as many times as we want until we run out of metal to cut... then it's only a few thousand more to get an entirely new piece of metal treated & prepared and we can cut it again...

...we have our Stretch Goal #1 sorted out now - At £3500 we can do both the separate bases sprue, and this improved infantry & tanks sprue:

Meaning everyone who pledges for the basic sprue, will get 20% more miniatures for no extra cost if we pass £3500.

**Apologist**

Two thirds of the way to the target now.

Hopefully the weekend will see £2250 reached, so we can see the stretch goals

**Pacific**

Very cool, will definitely be behind this one!

It's hard to tell exactly, but the human troopers look perhaps something similar to a scaled down Mantic Corporation trooper (or by extension, the old Epic IG, and Rogue Trooper-era IG)?

Quite funny reading the Tactical Command thread, about people having spent all of their hobby money this month on buying the last of the officially sold Epic stuff. If true, a good move making it a slightly longer running time for the campaign, and you would have to expect pledges to jump up dramatically towards the end of June!

**Apologist**

The campaign passed 80% funding this morning, and the (as-yet-unnamed) alien vehicle has received a facelift to make it look a bit more rough-and-ready.

Troublemaker games have also shuffled around the perks, so have a look and see if there's one that catches your fancy:

£22/$34 – One box (remember that the number of figures for everyone jumps up once the first stretch goal is reached)
£42/$63 – Two boxes
£63/$94 – One box and three resin copies of a custom human or alien figure, that you design in consultation with Troublemaker.
£82/$125 – Four boxes
£122/$186 – Six Boxes
£125/$190 – Four boxes, and you get to name either the human or alien vehicle.
£150/$228 – Four boxes, and you get to name either the human or alien faction, plus three resin copies of a custom human or alien figure, as in the £63/$94 pledge.

+++
There are currently 49 funders. If Troublemaker can find around a dozen more to go in at the lowest pledge level, then the community will get its first plastic 6mm sprue since the mid-90s. Go on – help out

**Apologist**

News from the front!
Latest update from the campaign:

Last night we passed £2000 in funding, and as I write this missive we’re currently sitting at slightly over 92% funding for our initial project goal!

To celebrate, we’re unlocking the “Alien Slaves” for purchase with two new Perks – one that simply gives you 80 metal Alien Slaves, and another that gives you 80 metal Alien Slaves, a custom-sculpted Alien Slave Leader, and naming rights for the Alien Slaves’ species… if pre-orders continue to rise high enough, we hope to be able to add an Alien Slave or three to the plastic sprue, too.

Thanks for your continued support, everyone!

You can get these as a perk already – £12 ($18) for eighty of them including UK P&P (+£3 [$4.50] for international postage.)

Really looking forward to seeing what the other perks are. I've seen some very cool previews of this Lanky bomber:

**Necros**

The plane looks good overall, but I feel like the fuselage / body needs more detail to match the tons 'o detail on the wings

**Lansirill**

Necros wrote:
The plane looks good overall, but I feel like the fuselage / body needs more detail to match the tons 'o detail on the wings

My initial reaction was 'Holy crap, are they actually going to be able to fit all those details onto a 6mm scale figure?' I suppose it depends on how big the actual miniature is though. Now that you've pointed out the lack of detail on the fuselage, though, that does stand out as a bit odd on contrast to the wings. If they're dealing with a limited number of triangles for their model (I'm not sure what kind of limitations you have with turning 3d models into actual sculpts,) it'd probably be worth shifting some. Then again, it's just a preview. They're probably planning on working on the thing some more.

**Apologist**

Here's a more up to date version, with some additional detail on the fuselage:

Having bought some of Troublemaker games' sutff before, I can vouch for their ability to retain the detail of the 3D images. Not quite sure how big this aeroplane is, but looks pretty cool

**Evil & Chaos**

Lansirill wrote:
Necros wrote:
The plane looks good overall, but I feel like the fuselage / body needs more detail to match the tons 'o detail on the wings

... it's just a preview. They're probably planning on working on the thing some more.

Yep, we are planning on adding more detail. In fact we've added extra detail even since the new preview shot that Apologist has posted above.

Not quite sure how big this aeroplane is, but looks pretty cool

Currently it has a length of 7.3cm and a wingspan of 9cm.

**Riquende**

Just gone in on this for a box. The one thing that was making me hold off was the fact that I've got no interest in the 'humanoid aliens', but I do really want some human stuff to finally start putting together my Epic IG (had the tanks for years). Is there any word on whether the humans and humanoid aliens will be split onto their own sprues?

**scarletsquig**

Really glad this has funded already, looking forward to seeing what comes next.

Also happy that it has another month to run since I'm totally spent out on other stuff currently.

I might try doing some games of mini-Warpath with the models just for fun. The humans look a *lot* like warpath corporation.

**Apologist**

Riquende wrote:
Is there any word on whether the humans and humanoid aliens will be split onto their own sprues?

One of the later stretches, apparently – though what that stretch goal actually is, is not yet known. Hopefully there'll be an update over the next day or two; I think breaking £3000 (£3184, as I'm posting) deserves an update

Personally, I'm hoping for metal human sprue variants to pop up as buy-ins like the alien slaves – some command figures or alternative riflemen poses, or something. What would you like to see?

**Apologist**

http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/6mm-scale-armies
+++EDIT+++
Stretch goals reached and announced

Separate base sprue, so if you've ever wanted round plastic bases for 6mm figures, you can get 80 for £15.

Alien bikers

Alien slaves

Updated alien vehicle

Human tanks – £22 for 10!

Human bomber

Advanced sprue
Three of these to a box

**Evil & Chaos**

New stuff!

£22 gets you 8x AA vehicles, plus 22x bases of plastic infantry. Cool huh?

**Lansirill**

I feel like I'm going to be adding a bit more to my pledge at some point. I just wish you didn't have to select individual pledges each time with Indiegogo. I bought a single infantry box, and now I'd feel silly buying a second one for another 22 pounds (so total of 44) when there's a 2 for 42 combo. It creates an awkward inertia where I'm reluctant to pledge early, because something better might come along.

**Evil & Chaos**

Hey Lansirill, let us know if you plump for a second box - and we'll refund you the £2 extra, as if you'd bought the £42 pledge level in the first place. :-)

**BobtheInquisitor**

Are they still planning to make separate human and ork sprues as a stretch goal? It looks like they've stopped mentioning that idea in favor of metal vehicle add ons.

I really don't want to pledge if half of my money is going to be wasted on a faction I don't want.

**Evil & Chaos**

Are they still planning to make separate human and ork sprues as a stretch goal?

If we get enough pledges, yes.
We'd need to get to about £10k to afford that. If we keep up the average daily pledge to the same level we've achieved so far, we would hit that mark.

We're also planning on offering a (slightly more expensive) Pledge option where we cut up the sprues and send you just 6x the halves you want (rather than 3x complete sprues), if it looks like we're not going to make it to the "split the sprues" funding level.

**Evil & Chaos**

From the latest Campaign Update:

INCOMING!

Here comes our biggest campaign update to date!

First of all, we’d just like to say thankyou for your continued support, without your financial backing this project would have failed at the first hurdle, and for that vote of confidence we can only be grateful.

Well, I suppose we could send you some toy soldiers, too…

Speaking of toy soldiers, here are our latest Product Additions, all of which are now available as Pledges:

Product Addition: Lancastrian Medium Bomber
They have a length of 7.3cm, and a wingspan of 9.1cm.

Product Addition: Beast Class Superheavy Mobile Bastion
They have a length of 6.1cm, and come with multiple configuration options of Transport, Laser Cannon, and Macro-Howitzer.

Product Addition: Heavy Guns Set
This set will contain two Infantry and IFV plastic sprues, 22x plastic bases, four Braveheart Artillery upgrades, two Alien Laser Cannons, and two Alien Macro-Howitzers.

All in all, a huge update, I think you’d have to agree!

As a final little tidbit, we’ve attached concept art for the “Ultimate” version of the Alien half of the plastic sprue. If we get enough funding, we’d like to add the extra sculpts and poses that can be seen on this sample sprue layout… indeed, we could think up a few more sculpt types we’d like to add too!

As ever, the final variety of figures found on the plastic Infantry & Vehicles sprue will be dependent on the level of funding we receive in this crowdfunding campaign.

Thanks for your time, your consideration, and your continued support.

- The Team @ Troublemaker Games

2x Lancastrians for £18

2x Beast Class Superheavies for £16 (includes one of each superheavy weapon type)

4x Braveheart artillery, 2x Laser Cannon Flatbeds, 2x Macro-Howitzer Flatbeds, and 22x bases of plastic infantry, for £22

**chris_valera**

Hm... this looks interesting. You could order some vehicles, and then switch the turrets with some Epic Ork stuff from the various generations and have a truly unique Kult of Speed...

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com