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So, before you blast, let me clarify.

I have been taking a look comparing models from different places, and while GW prices seem high to me initially, after some consideration they don't seem that bad as a whole.

std troops
-Lets take a simple box of space marines for example...37.50...call it 40 bucks...is $4/per model...

-Compare to mantic enforcers...you get them at 2.30/model..almost half the price...

-Now compare them to Dark potential...standard unit box of 7 is 60 bucks... 8.60/model!!

------>When you factor in the quality vs cost factor...does not seem too bad...maybe I'm wrong. Lets continue.



Large size
GW model, say hive tyrant is around $50....land raider at $75......so..................................$50-75

-take on of the similar sized dragons off of reapers site and he is anywhere between $40-70....

-Banelegion banebeast Ophius, Gorgon Lord the war store................................. .............. $50

-Although I cannot speak for the pathfinder quality, I know GWs models are very nice.

Single std size models

Here I will say theyre gak cra because they can be wanting you to pay $15-20 for a single std size model just because he is 'speshal' or something........not even worth comparison.

Also, a couple of the certain units they have seem high based on lower number need in an army,,,,,,as if they take advantage of unit power to jack price....(terminators at $10 a piece) and then turn around and not give the opposite courtesy (such as making gaunts a little cheaper because you need more)

So I make the challenge that the overwhelming thought that GW products, while a little pricey, are not as bad as they seem. The condition that changes the opinion is that people want giant armies, in which to play the games, which makes sense. So it's not that their product is too crazy overpriced....but that the price of a collection.....army certainly adds up.


Thoughts?


Lets not talk about forge world.

Actually it's getting to the point that FW is barely more expensive, and generally better looking.

I'm looking at placing a hefty FW order for my Nurgle force, and if we forget the shipping the price would be near identical for the 'standard' models...

As to standard GW, they are spendy. I still buy them, as they haven't yet become too spendy to justify (though like you said the single figure prices are a touch much ) but there will come a point where it is no longer worth it, which will be sad since i've been with 40K since its inception..

I have more expensive hobbies. As long as the price is still justifiable by the return i have no huge problem.

I would, of course, like to see a price drop though Wouldn't we all

It is true, I think of models like scourges and other things that ar 25-30 dollers, that is potentiall 5-6$ a model with left over toys. If these came in blisters, people would be applaoding their cheapness.

*cough*

Hi, 40k player in Japan here. Prices are higher here than anywhere in the world which is too say... very expensive

 n0t_u wrote:
*cough*

*ahem*

But are they worth it?

If they are, the prices are not yet insane.

YMMV of course My wife thinks i'm insane for spending what i do on robot components, and they are FAR spendier than models in the main..

OP lives in the US, his point is invalid.

I'd like to make a challenge of my own. Change your GW webstore to be "Australia", spend a year buying models at our prices, then post how you feel about GW pricing then.

 AesSedai wrote:
Hi, 40k player in Japan here. Prices are higher here than anywhere in the world which is too say... very expensive

Yep just like down under, but strangely Dust tactics is very cheap here on the Japanese Amazon!

The biggest problem with GW's prices is the total cost of an army. Sure, Infinity models might cost as much per model, but I only need 10-15 of them compared to 50-100+ and multiple vehicles for a 40k army. If you want to get started in a GW game you're spending $500+ before you can even play a single game, and that's a big barrier to entry for new players.

 bolo wrote:
OP lives in the US, his point is invalid.

I'd like to make a challenge of my own. Change your GW webstore to be "Australia", spend a year buying models at our prices, then post how you feel about GW pricing then.

Just checked.


I apologize for you.

Why is dark vengeance 165$? Is there something that can be done to help you guys ?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ascalam wrote:
But are they worth it?

If they are, the prices are not yet insane.

YMMV of course My wife thinks i'm insane for spending what i do on robot components, and they are FAR spendier than models in the main..

You build robots!?

jcrone2 wrote:

 bolo wrote:
OP lives in the US, his point is invalid.

I'd like to make a challenge of my own. Change your GW webstore to be "Australia", spend a year buying models at our prices, then post how you feel about GW pricing then.

Just checked.


I apologize for you.

Why is dark vengeance 165$?

Because that's how much GW thinks Australians should pay for it.

jcrone2 wrote:
Is there something that can be done to help you guys ?

Not unless you can change the pricings structure of a multi million dollar international organisation.

We're not that bad off - we can still order from the US from stores that sell bits and sell boxes of stuff stripped from their packaging like Dicebucket.

Is GW pricing insane?

Mostly... yes, for me at the least.

I have not bought any GW in quite some time, so it becomes obvious that for me at least, no, I am not getting what I see as value for money.

Your mileage may vary... but, yeah... no.

One thing that I have noticed - as I have grown away from buying GW miniatures I have grown away from the GW rules. So congruently that I really cannot say which is the chicken, which is the egg.

So... I am going to guess that it was a price increase on top of a dissatisfaction with the rules, on top of growing dissatisfaction with the sculpts.

There are still some wonderful GW sculpts, but it seems like the sculpts that I am dissatisfied with are growing ever larger in proportion.

The Auld Grump

jcrone2 wrote:

 bolo wrote:
OP lives in the US, his point is invalid.

I'd like to make a challenge of my own. Change your GW webstore to be "Australia", spend a year buying models at our prices, then post how you feel about GW pricing then.

Just checked.


I apologize for you.

Why is dark vengeance 165$? Is there something that can be done to help you guys ?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ascalam wrote:
But are they worth it?

If they are, the prices are not yet insane.

YMMV of course My wife thinks i'm insane for spending what i do on robot components, and they are FAR spendier than models in the main..

You build robots!?

To quote A-team's 'you speak swahili??' line ...

'you don't??'

Robots are my spendy-as-gak hobby that occasionally has me teetering on the edge of sleeping on the couch/porch/park bench (depending on the severity of the credit card bill) when the wife sees it.

By comparison sneaking a box of plaguebearers or whatever past the audit is easy

I build combat robots (think battlebots/Robotwars et al) and they often get vaped in fights. Right now the only one i have on the boil is a bipedal (my first) superheavy (450-500 lbs when complete approx), but that's a year or more away. The control board and remote are the first part of any robot i build, and the components run to thousands of bucks, though the remote can be reused and modified for each bot rather than starting from scratch.

I'll do a P and M blog on the guy, when i start doing his body. Right now he's mostly piles of wire and gizmos



edit: can't spell for gak on a 7'' tablet

GW just seem expensive in themselves, pointing out other miniatures companies that might cost more doesn't negate that, the majority cost less. GW ceased being value for money to me, simply, there isn't enough plastic in the box to warrant the price they put on it.

Their single figures have some of the stupidest prices. A single piece casting of a 28mm figure is not a complex thing, the majority of companies I buy from would charge £3-4 for such a thing, others charge perhaps £5-6. Companies I like are Hasslefree, Reaper, Heresy, Crooked Dice, etc.

GW regularly charge over £20 for single piece minis, see their Hobbit Whit council where one piece castings are four for £45. That's a joke. That box shouldn't be half that.

What I don't like about GW is their business practices, the way they mess independent retailers around and their hostile approach to protecting their IP which I feel is toxic to the wider hobby. On their prices, well GW can charge what they like. As I don't buy their stuff I'm not so bothered, I think they are stupid but they only harm themselves ultimately.

Totally redundant discussion, this topic has been milked to death.*

For the sake of forum hygene, you might want to have a look at the top of the forum, one of the features reads "Forum Tools", there you will find "Search". Try it.




*Mind you, that won't keep half the dakkanauts from unloading the same opinions again.

jcrone2 wrote:
So, before you blast, let me clarify.

I have been taking a look comparing models from different places, and while GW prices seem high to me initially, after some consideration they don't seem that bad as a whole.

std troops
-Lets take a simple box of space marines for example...37.50...call it 40 bucks...is $4/per model...

-Compare to mantic enforcers...you get them at 2.30/model..almost half the price...

-Now compare them to Dark potential...standard unit box of 7 is 60 bucks... 8.60/model!!

Large size
GW model, say hive tyrant is around $50....land raider at $75......so..................................$50-75

-take on of the similar sized dragons off of reapers site and he is anywhere between $40-70....

-Banelegion banebeast Ophius, Gorgon Lord the war store................................. .............. $50

-Although I cannot speak for the pathfinder quality, I know GWs models are very nice.

first off, GW quality is not as great as you'd think. There are terrible scale problems, their models have lots of flash and their finecast is well...a misnomer in the worst way possible. And their overall model quality is pretty much inferior to just about any other model company out there. Hell the worst examples are the fine details like faces and such, where you can get horrible warping in GW models with the same heads, while stuff like reaper is drastically more repeatable.

Next, you're comparing monopoly luxury items, not a truly competative market. Considering the cost of mold making, plastic purchasing, boxing, and printing, they're making quite a large markup in profit. To give you an idea:

today, a Citadel Leman Russ (a 95-part kit entirely cast in plastic) costs about the same as a Dragon M1A2 Abrams (an 817-part multimedia kit including 98 in etched brass and a turned metal gun barrel).

Thus, your arguement is invalid. There is absolutely no justification beyond greed (and poor economic monetary decisions in that they're aiming for a greater profit per model rather than greater sales profits) for the price of Citadel Miniatures.

Do not think this is a mistake exclusive to Citadel either, they, like any model company that produces minatures for their exclusive game system, hold a monopoly and are exploiting it.

Slaughtebeast, 2 sprues of plastic, $85

Ork Stompa, 16 sprues of plastic, $115.50

WTF?

That's all I have to say.

I stopped buying GW Stuff more than 4 years ago. I spent about £900 to buy all the Orks I’d ever need, and no more. I really wanted to invest in a new Dark Eldar Army, but no. Their ridiculous pricing just does not justify the models. That being said……

It’s not just the cost of the models, it’s the cost to buy into it that’s prohibitive. Let’s say I want to field an Ork Army with a couple of FW models. I now need the rulebook, the codex, and the FW rulebook, and now I’m close to £130 into the hobby, just before I can put my army onto the table. Compare that to other Games Systems I’ve recently started playing, Firestorm Armada, DUST Tactics, Relic Knights. All the rule sets, army specific codex are all available FREE to download. Within the Firestorm Armada book there is even a section for creating rules so you can use other companies models!

£9.50 for a tin of GW Black Undercoat spray. £7.50 for a tin of Army Painter black that does exactly the same job (actually better for FW models due to the increased adhesive quality in the paint). And I could go on with hobby related products………….

One of the reasons GW gets so expensive so quickly is the *amount* of models you need to buy.

A decently sized game in 40k is above 1000pts - most people play between 1500-2000. (I know, you can play 5pt games of one Termagant each, but that's not going to happen and isn't relevant to the discussion). Fantasy goes even higher, where 3000pts isn't uncommon.

Lets say I play Tau, and want a unit of broadsides in my army. One broadside runs 50 USD, and is reasonably comparable to a PP heavy warjack for $35. Except I actually need 3 broadsides, which costs $150 and represents somewhere between 13-20% of a 1500pt army. 1500pts of 40k is roughly equivalent to 35(40)pts of Warmachine. That $50 warjack will be Conversely, a $35 warjack from PP is between 7-12 pts, or 18-30% of your army.
To summarise:
40k: $150 buys you one unit worth about 15% of your army., or 0.1% per dollar spent
Warmachine: $35 buys you one model worth about 22% of your army., or 0.6% per dollar spent.
Dollars spent in Warmachine get you SIX TIMES MORE ARMY than dollars spent on warhammer.

Fantasy has it even worse, where a full box of troops can contribute as little as 30 pts to your army (Goblins, Skaven).


Its the repetition of buying that frustrates me. Per model, Broadsides aren't bad. Per unit, they're getting worse. And the play style of 40k means that you are always doubling up on particular units - taking 9 broadsides per army wasn't uncommon last edition. Other games might be comparable per model (though most of the time they still come out a lot better) but you can field just a single one of those models.
Look at something like Malifaux, where an entire force costs less than a box of space marines - and if you double your investment, you're maxing out on that faction and won't need to buy any more for them ever again.

jcrone2 wrote:
...
-take on of the similar sized dragons off of reapers site and he is anywhere between $40-70....

Reaper will shortly be launching a new range of figures in a new resin material ("Bones") which should drop the price by about half. When GW went to resin the prices went up.

That said, you'll always be able to find someone selling figures for more than GW, but as has been said the cost of figures isn't as important as the cost of entry. I don't mind paying $10 for a figure if I only need 5-10 of them for a game, but I don't want to be paying anything like that much when I need 50 of them.

Trasvi wrote:
A decently sized game in 40k is above 1000pts - most people play between 1500-2000.

I actually feel the biggest "price rise" for me was the change from 2nd to 3rd edition. In 2nd edition, a 40-50 model army was huge and would take a decent time to play a game. 3rd edition, 40-50 models pretty much became a minimum for a decent game. The fact that plastic models now cost slightly more than metal models in 2nd edition isn't a big deal in isolation until you consider how many more models you need now to play an average to large sized game.

WE have 1500 points of Orks; all paid for by old metal LOTR elves and Xbox games we sold off, or swaps; about £160, including two battlewagons, biker warboss conversion courtesy of hoardobits, boyz and gretchen, all new items coming from Dark Sphere at 25% off.

That's a bargain, in terms of the use you get from them, especially the fact you can turn up and get an afternoon's entertainment in any GW shop across the UK. There still are a lot of great GW staff out there.

But if I was in Oz then yes, I'd want to burn down that HQ in Nottingham. If it weren't so far away.

Another way to save cash is to pain other peoples models for money or models.

My roommate is paying me $5 a Daemonette right now and hes got 20 of them.

I finished 5 in two days. So this weekend I'll make myself $75. Time to get those chariots.

Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:
That's a bargain, in terms of the use you get from them, especially the fact you can turn up and get an afternoon's entertainment in any GW shop across the UK .

Until GW put a stop to gaming in their stores.

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:
That's a bargain, in terms of the use you get from them, especially the fact you can turn up and get an afternoon's entertainment in any GW shop across the UK .

Until GW put a stop to gaming in their stores.

They were playing games in the store in Hull three weeks ago, Truro a fortnight ago, and Bluewater last week.

(I've read about that memo on here, plainly however drew it up is a moron, but every store i know is ignoring it).

I wouldn't go as far as insane... more like a screw loose perhaps, a few bricks short of a chimney or however you want to phrase it

Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:
That's a bargain, in terms of the use you get from them, especially the fact you can turn up and get an afternoon's entertainment in any GW shop across the UK .

Until GW put a stop to gaming in their stores.

They were playing games in the store in Hull three weeks ago, Truro a fortnight ago, and Bluewater last week.

(I've read about that memo on here, plainly however drew it up is a moron, but every store i know is ignoring it).

Doesn't mean that its never going to happen though. May take a while, but they'll do it eventually "table are for demo games only".

What people always forget in these discussions is that small companies make less profit on their miniature runs than larger companies (like GW) the more you produce the cheaper the product gets, but it seems that GW doesn't get basic economics.

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

Doesn't mean that its never going to happen though. May take a while, but they'll do it eventually "table are for demo games only".

Always look on the bright side of death!

(I recall, on dakka, there was a statement that individual store managers have discretion. And as four out of four stores (I forgot to mention Cambridge) we visited in the last month still have instore games, it looks like the policy has been quietly dropped).