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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





60 plaguebearers is so meta right now. Probably the right pick in most instances.
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




 Elric Greywolf wrote:
I'm considering dropping my TSons detachment and taking a Slaanesh Supreme, for ITC scoring purposes.

Harp Lady
Prince/Herald wrestling tag team
Scary Mirror

Should I:
1. Take 7 Fiends as the elite option there to give the Slaanesh a real punch?
2. Take a second unit of 30x Plaguebearers?

If I took Fiends, they would be the ONLY multi-wound targetable unit in my list--the rest is purely infantry and characters. This makes me worry about giving my opponent's lascannons, railguns, and plasma a juicy target.


don't see why you would want syll'esse instead of a normal prince or another epitome. Pricier, footslogging, and comparatively limited attacks per phase for a substantial cost increase (choose one weapon profile then at another combat phase choose the other). If it were me the main reason i'd use the duo is if Im running lots of daemonettes otherwise a winged prince basically as choppy and more mobile in addition to being cheaper

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/06/30 04:06:59





 
   
Made in gb
Yellin' Yoof





operkoi wrote:
 Elric Greywolf wrote:
I'm considering dropping my TSons detachment and taking a Slaanesh Supreme, for ITC scoring purposes.

Harp Lady
Prince/Herald wrestling tag team
Scary Mirror

Should I:
1. Take 7 Fiends as the elite option there to give the Slaanesh a real punch?
2. Take a second unit of 30x Plaguebearers?

If I took Fiends, they would be the ONLY multi-wound targetable unit in my list--the rest is purely infantry and characters. This makes me worry about giving my opponent's lascannons, railguns, and plasma a juicy target.


don't see why you would want syll'esse instead of a normal prince or another epitome. Pricier, footslogging, and comparatively limited attacks per phase for a substantial cost increase (choose one weapon profile then at another combat phase choose the other). If it were me the main reason i'd use the duo is if Im running lots of daemonettes otherwise a winged prince basically as choppy and more mobile in addition to being cheaper


That's not how the new Prince's weapons work.

You get to use both in the same combat phase, and not just in your own, one initially and the other after consolidation. They even FAQ'd it recently that it doesn't have to actually move to get the second lot of attacks.


Q: If Syll’Esske cannot make a consolidation move because it is
in base contact with an enemy model, can it still resolve its close
combat attacks again as a result of the Deadly Symbiosis ability?
A: Yes.

Q: When Syll’Esske uses the Deadly Symbiosis ability, it says it
can choose a new target. Must I choose a new target, or can I
choose a unit that Syll’Esske targeted during this phase?
A: You can choose a unit that Syll’Esske targeted during
this phase.

Source: https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/40K_8th_ed_Slaanesh_Daemon_Datasheets_ver_1.0.pdf


Winged Prince is still cheaper and with the versatility of fly, Syll'Esske is more of a beatstick for supporting daemonettes.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/06/30 06:23:36


I hate children and parents. 
   
Made in it
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





syll'esske is a CaC beast compared bt Dp,only real limit is fly

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Tunneling Trygon






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Winged DP can also take Celerity for a fairly reliable T1 charge with a pack of Fiends, or be a CSM one for Intoxicating Elixir, Dark Hereticus, and a LEGION trait.

It’s a very different beast to Syll’eske, and both have a place in a large Slaaneshi army.

   
Made in us
Furious Raptor





I'm thinking that if I use my LOC and Kairos in my army, since the LOC is better than Kairos, I'll have Kairos on the field right away (with a healthy shield of cultists of course), and DS the LOC. With the perks that allow him to multiple saves plus all of his abilities, he could rip apart the enemy from behind and force the enemy to choose between which chicken to aim most of their firepower at.

What about Aetaos'rau'keres, is he good on the table? GW seriously needs to roll back his point level (why can't he be 999 points like the other FW greater daemons' points correspond to their gods's sacred number?). I've read that he's still nigh unkillable and can decimate enemy armies with all of his abilities.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






Aetaos was winning tournaments for a while at the beginning of 8th.

Running any of the big FW daemons now will be an uphill battle though. Point-wise it's a single model vs. like half the opponent's entire army.

   
Made in it
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





im testing a list with 2xKOS+epitome and Magnus plus 90 Pb's, i swapped Magnus for a LOC (pretty more durable), problem is damage output not even close to Magnus, IG/Tau has lot of problem deal with LOC less with Magnus but of course Magnus kills anything LOC not. not easy to choose.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 barboggo wrote:
60 plaguebearers is so meta right now. Probably the right pick in most instances.

depend what format you play, in ITC perhaps 60 are enough, in ETC not less than 90, ETC play CA 2018 missions so scoring on obj is critical.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/01 23:22:51


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Made in pl
Fresh-Faced New User




hi, is it make sense to play Khorne Chaos Daemons solo? I'm total newbie with Chaos Daemons.
   
Made in de
Rampaging Furioso Blood Angel Dreadnought






Germany

No, khorne daemons alone are really bad.
   
Made in pl
Fresh-Faced New User




So what's the best choice for them? And why, if you can describe.
   
Made in de
Rampaging Furioso Blood Angel Dreadnought






Germany

Khorne daemons have poor saves. They die really fast. They have no psykers. They are all about melee, any shooty army will remove most of them before they even get close, and charge. Good units are the bloodletter bomb, daemon princes, karanak. Thats pretty much it.
   
Made in ca
Eternally-Stimulated Slaanesh Dreadnought





Rzhev, Kronstaat IV

Ayuh. That's the answer, if you're the 1% who play in top-level tournaments on tables with no terrain.

If you play like the rest of us, the answer is it depends on your meta. You almost certainly won't make a super-killy TAC list and drive your enemies before you in every single game, but you absolutely can maintain a winning record in a casual/local tourney meta and have a lot of fun with a mono-Khorne Daemon army.

Or, you have options in the form of Renegades & Heretics and Heretic Astartes for ranged support of varying efficiency.

The Fall of Kronstaat IV - Daemonettes and Renegades and Heretics, Oh My
Война Народная | Voyna Narodnaya | The People's War - 2,854pts painted (updated 26/07/19)
Волшебная Сказка | Volshebnaya Skazka | A Fairy Tale (updated 08/05/19, ep8 - Звезда | Zvezda | The Star)
Kabal of The Violet Heart (updated 16/07/19)

Rather thought I'd get through the whole show. Go back to working at Pratt & Sons. Keep wicket for the Croydon Gentlemen. Marry Doris.

Made a note in my diary on the way here. Simply says "bugger".
 
   
Made in it
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





is not about terrain, is about army lists you face a decent Tau/Ig cancel you from the table also if you fill it up with Blos terrain, 9 mortars and 3 basilisk as lot of Ig plays in here , smart missiles and Tau high mobility and you doomed.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/07/02 20:55:15


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Made in ca
Eternally-Stimulated Slaanesh Dreadnought





Rzhev, Kronstaat IV

I know. I'm consistently told my Daemonettes will never make it into melee and am consistently surprised when they do. I'm consistently told my melee army will never win and am consistently surprised when it does.

As if the considerations of your meta aren't relevant to mine, or something.

The Fall of Kronstaat IV - Daemonettes and Renegades and Heretics, Oh My
Война Народная | Voyna Narodnaya | The People's War - 2,854pts painted (updated 26/07/19)
Волшебная Сказка | Volshebnaya Skazka | A Fairy Tale (updated 08/05/19, ep8 - Звезда | Zvezda | The Star)
Kabal of The Violet Heart (updated 16/07/19)

Rather thought I'd get through the whole show. Go back to working at Pratt & Sons. Keep wicket for the Croydon Gentlemen. Marry Doris.

Made a note in my diary on the way here. Simply says "bugger".
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






 Excommunicatus wrote:
I know. I'm consistently told my Daemonettes will never make it into melee and am consistently surprised when they do. I'm consistently told my melee army will never win and am consistently surprised when it does.

As if the considerations of your meta aren't relevant to mine, or something.




I pretty much have the same reaction. I was even told my Daemonettes would do poorly in combat even if they made it in... that has also been the opposite in my experience.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/03 12:45:47


 
   
Made in it
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





as i said many many times, anything depend at what level you play, in casual games many units are viable, at tournaments lot less, demonettes if get into melee they kill almost anything, who says different lies. I played a mono slaanesh at last ETC tournament and i won 2 and tie the last one with a Tau, demonettes+syll'eeske deleted almost anything they touch, ork mobs, battlewagons, killa kans, genestealers, hive tyrants and so on...90 attacks re rolling anything can deal with almost anything.
Slaanesh works great with new KOS, play a couple with epithome syll'esske and 12 fiends plus 90 demonettes and you have a fast hard hitting list.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/03 19:34:17


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Made in ca
Khorne Chosen Marine Riding a Juggernaut






Rafss wrote:
So what's the best choice for them? And why, if you can describe.


Bloodletters are really good at blowing up anything you deepstrike them at. Skull Cannons are the best long range gun in the codex, and Demon Prince of Khorne can be really nice with the axe relic to hunt knights. Otherwise yes, most of everything else is not incredibly good. If you DO go mono-Khorne, you most certainly want a FLOODS of Bloodletters.

14,000 points!
 
   
Made in it
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





you need hounds or you are too slow you can not DS all the letters you need something on the table, so i would go for lot of hounds and bloodletters bomb(s) 2-3 Dp's, fact is if you want a fast full melee army, slaanesh do anything better. I would go for a triple or at least double battalion
more or less a thing like this

Spoiler:


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Daemons) [64 PL, -1CP, 1,147pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Chaos Allegiance: Khorne

Rewards of Chaos (1 Relic) [-1CP]

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Chaos [9 PL, 180pts]: 1. Legendary Fighter, Daemonic axe, Khorne, Skullreaver, Warlord, Wings

Karanak [4 PL, 70pts]

+ Troops +

Bloodletters [4 PL, 95pts]: 9x Bloodletter, Bloodreaper, Daemonic Icon, Instrument of Chaos

Bloodletters [4 PL, 95pts]: 9x Bloodletter, Bloodreaper, Daemonic Icon, Instrument of Chaos

Bloodletters [4 PL, 95pts]: 9x Bloodletter, Bloodreaper, Daemonic Icon, Instrument of Chaos

+ Fast Attack +

Flesh Hounds [8 PL, 114pts]: 6x Flesh Hound, Gorehound

Flesh Hounds [8 PL, 114pts]: 6x Flesh Hound, Gorehound

Flesh Hounds [8 PL, 114pts]: 6x Flesh Hound, Gorehound

+ Heavy Support +

Skull Cannon [5 PL, 90pts]

Skull Cannon [5 PL, 90pts]

Skull Cannon [5 PL, 90pts]

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Daemons) [42 PL, 855pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Chaos Allegiance: Khorne

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Chaos [9 PL, 180pts]: Khorne, Malefic talon, Wings

Daemon Prince of Chaos [9 PL, 180pts]: Armour of Scorn, Khorne, Malefic talon, Wings

+ Troops +

Bloodletters [8 PL, 165pts]: 19x Bloodletter, Bloodreaper, Daemonic Icon, Instrument of Chaos

Bloodletters [8 PL, 165pts]: 19x Bloodletter, Bloodreaper, Daemonic Icon, Instrument of Chaos

Bloodletters [8 PL, 165pts]: 19x Bloodletter, Bloodreaper, Daemonic Icon, Instrument of Chaos

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/07/04 11:22:11


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Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




One thing worth keeping in mind is if you pick a theme and stick to it, like going mono-god, you can almost always put something together over time that will put up a fight even for top table lists. It will be an uphill battle against the hottest meta, but you can actually throw people off a lot of times since you are bringing an army "no one would use" which means a lot of folks just won't know how to deal with it, where their target priority should be, what you can do, etc. This has been the case for me several times since I have gone pure Slaanesh since the beginning of 8th and, until recently, Slaanesh has pretty much been at the bottom of the pack with a few obvious exceptions (CSM allies shooting twice, for example). I came out on top at a local league with some regular tournament goers and pulled out 2nd in a nearby tournament well before we got some of our nice new toys like the epitome or Biggie-Smalls (Syll'Esske).

To be fair, I mostly picked a mono-god just to keep my spending and hobby impulse under control, but it has been a lot of fun for me and I very rarely run in to a list I can't give a run for its money and my local meta is super competitive with guys who regularly go to the big events like LVO and Adepticon. Even when I have hit a wall (which has only really happened once when the Castellen Meta started), I could go back to the list building and come up with a solution. So odds are if you want to play mono-Khorne, you can make it happen. I honestly believe every codex in 8th has a list or 3 that can hold its own against the most cheddar of tournament cheese with the right play style (just look at that guy who just won a tourny with pure Blood Angels).

Skull Cannons seem pretty solid for a Khorne daemon army but I never see them used. At 90 points you get a T7, W7, 3+/5++ battle cannon that ignores cover, isn't useless in close combat, and does mortal wounds on a charge. Having that 3+ on a daemon unit is pretty handy. Soul Grinders are still a little pricey but they are good units (though if you are willing to ally in Khorne CSM Daemon Engines, those are usually better and still benefit from daemon buffs). Mixing those in with some cannons give your army flexibility that most daemon armies lack and may surprise folks who just expect the usual blind Khorne charge. The new hounds would be handy as well since you will need to clear screens to make sure the blood letter bomb can actually get to a prime target. The Bloodcrushers look super cool but they are the only real stinker I can think of since they are just so expensive.

Khorne also got some love with the Vigilus Ablaze book, so be sure to check that out. I don't really like fortifications but the Skull Altar has a lot of tricks and can be summoned, so not sure if it is worth the points for those extra attacks and bonuses or not though. I feel like there is likely some play to be had there. The Legion of Skulls formation gets dumped on a lot, but if you have all Khorne on the table, it seems like the red tide can make one succesful charge pay off for several units if you position well. A short range, 1cp smite is situational but nice to have in your pocket.

   
Made in it
Lurking Gaunt




Dublin

 blackmage wrote:
I played a mono slaanesh at last ETC tournament and i won 2 and tie the last


ETC rules tournament.

People might think you have been to the actual ETC.

Anyway you are a good player but sometimes you are too negative on some things.

By the way I think that a mono slaanesh at the moment is not bad and very good.

But you need to spend a lot of command points for keeping a couple of units out and overwhelme the opponent's on T2 with multiple targets.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/06 08:38:12


The Hive Mind hungers... 
   
Made in it
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





@Tiberio
I said ETC cause it's a well know format, just to make it clear im NOT playing ITC. You can easily get 2 battalions and a supreme command,14Cp's might be enough, usually turn 1-2 you have 2 KoS 12 fiends and epithome/Dp ready to charge.
I bring real tournament experiences, i can often sound "negative" but if a thing don't work, i wont say "it's ok" "it's great" "you are gonna crush your opponent face with it".
Anyway i played ETC format too in past, so i know what i mean.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/06 09:26:23


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Furious Raptor





 vaklor4 wrote:
Rafss wrote:
So what's the best choice for them? And why, if you can describe.


Bloodletters are really good at blowing up anything you deepstrike them at. Skull Cannons are the best long range gun in the codex, and Demon Prince of Khorne can be really nice with the axe relic to hunt knights. Otherwise yes, most of everything else is not incredibly good. If you DO go mono-Khorne, you most certainly want a FLOODS of Bloodletters.


First time I played my Khorne daemon army (it was against Drukhari), I steamrolled my opponent and would have won had he not gotten the objectives. Play them right, and that kind of army can be an engine of destruction.
   
Made in ch
Fresh-Faced New User




 ArcaneHorror wrote:
 vaklor4 wrote:
Rafss wrote:
So what's the best choice for them? And why, if you can describe.


Bloodletters are really good at blowing up anything you deepstrike them at. Skull Cannons are the best long range gun in the codex, and Demon Prince of Khorne can be really nice with the axe relic to hunt knights. Otherwise yes, most of everything else is not incredibly good. If you DO go mono-Khorne, you most certainly want a FLOODS of Bloodletters.


First time I played my Khorne daemon army (it was against Drukhari), I steamrolled my opponent and would have won had he not gotten the objectives. Play them right, and that kind of army can be an engine of destruction.


Would you mind sharing your list ?
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Dont suppose anyone would be willing to give hints to a newbie. Played 2 games so far and each time I lose 500-1000pts turn 1 before I get to activate anything(So as you imagine playing 500-1000pts down has been anything but fun). My demons are getting mulched by Chaos Marines/Thousand suns with Havocs with 64 shots along with 3 rockets for anything big. Ahriman and 3 demon princes are spelling the gak out of my units (plaguebears and demonettes)with death hex and doombolt. At this point I am feeling like I have wasted money with a demon army that seems knee capped super hard.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/07/10 14:56:32


 
   
Made in gb
Tunneling Trygon






Nottingham (yay!)

Azarin wrote:
Dont suppose anyone would be willing to give hints to a newbie. Played 2 games so far and each time I lose 500-1000pts turn 1 before I get to activate anything(So as you imagine playing 500-1000pts down has been anything but fun). My demons are getting mulched by Chaos Marines/Thousand suns with Havocs with 64 shots along with 3 rockets for anything big. Ahriman and 3 demon princes are spelling the gak out of my units (plaguebears and demonettes)with death hex and doombolt. At this point I am feeling like I have wasted money with a demon army that seems knee capped super hard.

Hmm, sounds like you’ve built a perfectly good collection of Paper and have the misfortune to usually play Scissors. If you’re taking Daemonettes and get hit hard by psychics, I’d try bringing an Infernal Rapturess and Contorted Epitome. That gives you a large aura of common Perils of the Warp, which in turn opens up the chance for Possession - whilst CE brings two buffed DTW, and some situational Smite absorption.

New Havocs are really nasty, especially with those rotor cannons. Deploying Plaguebearers in large enough blobs to get -1 to be hit is one way to mitigate them; a Sloppity Bilepiper will give you better odds on a decimated unit not all vanishing to Morale. 24” range on their dakka means that Fiends of Slaanesh, terrain willing, can sometimes get inside their guard; lock them in combat and they’re toast (though I accept that an opposing army able to pump out smites is a pretty good counter; don’t forget Fiends’ reduction to enemy Psychic tests). Or, a flying Daemon Prince can just eat them. Not an efficient way to do it, though - ideally, you’d have more things going on in the same area.

40k 8ed is a game of high bodycounts, a typical victory entails your five shellshocked survivors planting a flag whilst your opponent’s two shellshocked survivors wave their fists in frustration. Try to play the mission, and remember that the whole purpose of lesser Daemons is to be disposable pawns.

   
Made in us
Furious Raptor





Chaos_Lord_Tom wrote:
 ArcaneHorror wrote:
 vaklor4 wrote:
Rafss wrote:
So what's the best choice for them? And why, if you can describe.


Bloodletters are really good at blowing up anything you deepstrike them at. Skull Cannons are the best long range gun in the codex, and Demon Prince of Khorne can be really nice with the axe relic to hunt knights. Otherwise yes, most of everything else is not incredibly good. If you DO go mono-Khorne, you most certainly want a FLOODS of Bloodletters.


First time I played my Khorne daemon army (it was against Drukhari), I steamrolled my opponent and would have won had he not gotten the objectives. Play them right, and that kind of army can be an engine of destruction.


Would you mind sharing your list ?


I'm having a hard time finding the original. I think that this is it. You'll have to replace one prince with something else as GW now says that you can only have three in a matched play army.

Daemon Prince of Chaos with Malefic talons [HQ] [Warlord] (Mark of Khorne) (Trait: Oblivious to Pain)
Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury [HQ]
Blood Throne [HQ] (Artefact – Crimson Crown)
1 x 30 Bloodletters (with Banner of Blood/Icon and Instrument of Chaos)
1 x 10 Bloodletters
1 x 10 Bloodletters

Karanak Outrider Detachment:
Karanak [HQ]
Daemon Prince with Wings, Daemonic axe, and one set of talons [HQ] (Mark of Khorne)
(Artefact – Skull Reaver)
1 x 5 Flesh Hounds
1 x 5 Flesh Hounds
1 x 5 Flesh Hounds

Skulltaker Battalion:
Skulltaker [HQ]
Daemon Prince of Chaos with Malefic talons [HQ] (Mark of Khorne)
Daemon Prince with wings, Hellforged sword, and one set of talons [HQ] (Mark of Khorne) (Artefact – King of Blades)
1 x 10 Bloodletters (with Instrument of Chaos)
1 x 10 Bloodletters
1 x 10 Bloodletters

Total points: 1991
Command points (original): 14
Command points (remaining after artefacts and Blood Banner): 10

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/10 19:51:35


 
   
Made in ch
Fresh-Faced New User




Thanks,

That's a hefty number of bloodletters, Blood must have shed. Khorne was certainly pleased !
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






Azarin wrote:
Dont suppose anyone would be willing to give hints to a newbie. Played 2 games so far and each time I lose 500-1000pts turn 1 before I get to activate anything(So as you imagine playing 500-1000pts down has been anything but fun). My demons are getting mulched by Chaos Marines/Thousand suns with Havocs with 64 shots along with 3 rockets for anything big. Ahriman and 3 demon princes are spelling the gak out of my units (plaguebears and demonettes)with death hex and doombolt. At this point I am feeling like I have wasted money with a demon army that seems knee capped super hard.


It might also be helpful to post your list so we can give some suggestions? If you have both plague bearers and Daemonettes it sounds like you're heavy on infantry as both of those are units you want to take in big blobs of at least 20. Though you can MSU the Daemonettes a bit more... but only to hold objectives out of LOS IMO.

It also sounds like you might not be playing with enough terrain. That is the bane of all melee armies in this edition IMO, is people not playing with enough terrain. You should know whether you're likely getting first turn or not before you deploy and you should be deploying accordingly. Don't put everything on the front line in plane sight if you're not going first. Ask your enemy what their ranges on their weapons are and counter-deploy accordingly. A lot of the game, in my opinion, is won in the movement/deployment phase (assuming dice gods don't betray you).

Again though, posting your list would help! Particularly with the mixed non-mono god army as I'm not sure where you're getting your bigger punch from. A KOS and a LOC will have very different strategies/recommendations for instance.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Agreed. Your list and a list of avalible models would be helpful. Also the mission your playing, if you guys are just playing 1vp per killed unit you are probably going to lose, that game style always favors small elite forces over large squishy armies.
   
 
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