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2020/02/23 15:31:55
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
I may have to explain myself more. When I stated talons didn't need a rewrite, I was referring to the weapon themselves, not the bearer's stats.
Trygons always have fixed weapons, so if you believe they should have more attacks then change their attacks characteristics, not the talons.
Also talons being even better would quickly make every other melee weapon option irrelevant. What would be the point of boneswords which already give an additional attack? And crushing claws already struggle to justify themselves (the monstrous and massive versions need to drop that - 1 to hit).
2020/02/23 16:25:19
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Eihnlazer wrote: Crushing claws have always been -1/initiative 1 to hit so it never surprised me that they are now.
Horms should be 4 points apiece though, and genestealers/broodlord should get a 4++ againgst shooting attacks. Carnifex should have a 2+ save. Trygon Prime should have 14 wounds. Tervigon should have 16 and give gaunts full rerolls to hit or give one squad of gaunts +1 to wound.
This is with no points changes just to make us catch up with the rest of the armies.
Test some games with the above changes and you'll certainly feel slightly more balanced.
It's not a matter of surprise, it's just bad design that you look at pretty much any equivalent unit (walkers with CC options), and their X2 Strength ap-3 dam3 melee weapon option has no hit penalty, while monstrous/massive crushing claws do.
I don't know that I agree with buffing Genestealers to a 4++, that sounds more like creep than addressing actual balance issues to me, though I don't have a problem with it on the Broodlord. Carnifexes could use the option of a 2+ save but not just getting it flat out. Trygons, Prime or otherwise, have durability issues unrelated to their wound stack - they're a glass cannon that's not that much of a cannon at S7. T6 and a 3+ save on a height to rival Daemon Primarch models just dies, even if you added 2 wounds. Give them their FW invuln back and either a +1 strength boost so that when they manage to get to combat, they can actually threaten the vehicles that the D6 damage profile on massive talons implies they want to be after, or buff their toughness to 8 to that autocannons and plasma aren't just laughing them off the table.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/23 21:06:41
2020/02/24 03:20:09
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Tyran wrote: I may have to explain myself more. When I stated talons didn't need a rewrite, I was referring to the weapon themselves, not the bearer's stats.
Trygons always have fixed weapons, so if you believe they should have more attacks then change their attacks characteristics, not the talons.
Also talons being even better would quickly make every other melee weapon option irrelevant. What would be the point of boneswords which already give an additional attack? And crushing claws already struggle to justify themselves (the monstrous and massive versions need to drop that - 1 to hit).
Talons need a re-write because right now they have no purpose. Historically Scything Talons provided extra attacks, while Rending Claws gave you better armor penetration ability. This gave them each clear roles and utility, and a model could pair the weapons if they wanted. You had reasons to want Scything Talons on your models.
Now Scything Talons are nigh-worthless, and Rending Claws are mediocre because Boneswords give consistent APand more attacks. The only reason to ever take Scything Talons as secondaries to another melee weapon is to save on points, which in practice means they only show up on models that can't replace them.
Scything Talons should give a bonus attack, Rending Claws should keep their current rules, and Boneswords should do something different- maybe make them a D2 weapon so that your three choices are volume of attacks, high AP, or multi-damage. That gives each one a unique role.
Hormagaunts, Screamer-Killers, and Trygons all need some love. An extra attack per pair of Talons wouldn't break anything.
Emicrania wrote: Am I seeing double or next WD issue will feature new GSC/Tyranids formations?
I had an opportunity to go over the new White Dwarf issue and can confirm it was just a battle report (albeit a rather entertaining one). It did include the scenario they played which was a Free For All that seemed to work rather well. Each player was given a deck of playing cards and could "bid" for initiative each turn (person with the lowest number went first). The GSC/Tyranid force abused this somewhat in that they went early for the first few turns so they could dump everything on the central objective and deny everyone else's deepstrike from landing until lines thinned out. The mission also had everyone start with 12 command points (with +3 if they were battle forged) instead of having command points tied to the detachments, which was an interesting twist.
Spoiler:
Surprisingly, the GSC/Tyranids player won the battle.
I will say, I really liked how the GSC/Tyranid army was painted. The owner noted that they tried to mirror the color schemes used by the 2nd edition incarnations and the end result looks very nice.
2020/02/24 09:13:16
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
What do you guys think about a 9 man Shrike bomb in a kraken list?
The problem I have with my stealers is they get screened out. Shrikes have fly.
So t1 you get them moving a minimum of 26" (1 to advance roll and hive commander), or a maximum of... 52" (6 on advance, double advance strat, adrenal glands, hive commander). Obviously they'll need onslaught as well.
Following that if you use Synaptic Lure you'll get a rerollable charge +1 for the glands.
That should safely get you anything you want, maybe even hold a unit hostage--or if nothing else bad-touch their entire backfield.
Maybe give them lashwips to ensure better RoI in the subsequent turn.
I just think this is a major disruptive force on t1, for an army that otherwise lacks range or could be screened heavily.
Thoughts?
2020/02/24 10:07:24
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
How are they screening out your stealers? Other than orks or nids I have never been screened out, and honestly against those armies you want your stealers killing their troops anyway.
If your bringing swarmlord with kraken stealers there should literally never be anywhere on the table one unit of stealers cant get too.
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2020/02/24 12:59:18
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
I have tryed carnifexes with heavy venom cannons. I do not like them. I have tryed the walreant with the new venom cannon relic. I liked that a lott.
I need good anti tank in 2000 points. 6 hiveguards is not near enough. How is the rupture canon? I am considering comverting my tervigon into one. I have not used my two tetvigons since 5th/6th edition. I do not own an exorshrine, and I do not play enough to justefy buying one.
convert the tervi in something usable as both tyrannofex and exocrine. With the new strata (1CP, exocrine count as not moved), in combo with the kronos psychic power from PA, the exocrine is a killer .
Dakka is the ork word for shooting, but the ork concept of shooting is saturation fire. Just as there is no such thing as a "miss" in a target-rich environment, there is no such thing as a "dodge" in a bullet rich one
2020/02/24 14:12:08
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
I need good anti tank in 2000 points. 6 hiveguards is not near enough. How is the rupture canon? I am considering comverting my tervigon into one. I have not used my two tetvigons since 5th/6th edition. I do not own an exorshrine, and I do not play enough to justefy buying one.
The Rupture Cannon is acceptable against T8 or higher but is otherwise out performed by the Exocrine against lighter vehicles. Main issue is the BS 4+ and variable damage.
For what limited worth it is, I've been using my Tervigons in the last couple games I played with decent performance. I've been doing a T8 monster mash with a swarm of Termagants for screening and a Malceptor in the middle cycling the Encephalic Diffusion stratagem to keep everything ticking. T8 is much tougher to crack when you can drop Lascannons to wounding on a 4+ and plasma to a 5+. The Termagants also hold on a bit better when mass S4 needs a 4+ to wound (and S3 needs a 5+) which gives the Tervigons more opportunities to replenish.
I'm not sure I'd take said list to anything more than a local tournament, but it is rather fun to play if nothing else.
2020/02/24 14:57:14
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Talons need a re-write because right now they have no purpose. Historically Scything Talons provided extra attacks, while Rending Claws gave you better armor penetration ability. This gave them each clear roles and utility, and a model could pair the weapons if they wanted. You had reasons to want Scything Talons on your models.
Now Scything Talons are nigh-worthless, and Rending Claws are mediocre because Boneswords give consistent APand more attacks. The only reason to ever take Scything Talons as secondaries to another melee weapon is to save on points, which in practice means they only show up on models that can't replace them.
Scything Talons should give a bonus attack, Rending Claws should keep their current rules, and Boneswords should do something different- maybe make them a D2 weapon so that your three choices are volume of attacks, high AP, or multi-damage. That gives each one a unique role.
Hormagaunts, Screamer-Killers, and Trygons all need some love. An extra attack per pair of Talons wouldn't break anything.
And now you have to redesign basically all the melee weapons rather than only one. Which is fair, but far more work.
2020/02/24 15:17:18
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Eihnlazer wrote: How are they screening out your stealers? Other than orks or nids I have never been screened out, and honestly against those armies you want your stealers killing their troops anyway.
If your bringing swarmlord with kraken stealers there should literally never be anywhere on the table one unit of stealers cant get too.
Guard for example. My stealers are able to crash into the enemy frontline, but rarely is the frontline the key thing to kill.
With the fly keyword they could tie up artillary,effectively disabling a backline.
2020/02/24 17:37:49
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
I need good anti tank in 2000 points. 6 hiveguards is not near enough. How is the rupture canon? I am considering comverting my tervigon into one. I have not used my two tetvigons since 5th/6th edition. I do not own an exorshrine, and I do not play enough to justefy buying one.
The Rupture Cannon is acceptable against T8 or higher but is otherwise out performed by the Exocrine against lighter vehicles. Main issue is the BS 4+ and variable damage.
For what limited worth it is, I've been using my Tervigons in the last couple games I played with decent performance. I've been doing a T8 monster mash with a swarm of Termagants for screening and a Malceptor in the middle cycling the Encephalic Diffusion stratagem to keep everything ticking. T8 is much tougher to crack when you can drop Lascannons to wounding on a 4+ and plasma to a 5+. The Termagants also hold on a bit better when mass S4 needs a 4+ to wound (and S3 needs a 5+) which gives the Tervigons more opportunities to replenish.
I'm not sure I'd take said list to anything more than a local tournament, but it is rather fun to play if nothing else.
Yeah thanks. My friend who plays play Orks. And while we are a bit evenly matched I feel like he is better then me in close combat.
Huge groups of 30 boys with Da Jump is much more effective them my stuff in melee. He also have those 'hidden powerclaws' that can threaten my big stuff. He usualy run a T8 walker and a T8 card, that always gets a charge turn 2. I reallly need to way to deal with T8 and shooting seems to be it. Old one Eye does descent damage, and of course the ocational smite. Last game my tyranofex with the acid spray and the pathogen strat did well when I rolled high in the number of shots.
So mayby another Tfex could be good. I have a hard time seeing me take 2 tevrigons. But I have so fond memories of them.
How are hive guard tazers? They came out very well when the codex first came out. Short range though.
I also found screening with tervigons, mines and gargoyles was very well vs Orks. It certanly makes 'da jump' a lot worse.
How are hive guard tazers? They came out very well when the codex first came out. Short range though.
They are better against targets that have invulnerable saves, since their main damage is through their haywire mortal wounds effect which doesn't care one iota about most defensive tricks. The range isn't too bad actually (24'' is "average" range for quite a few weapons). I'd argue their main failing is just the variable number of shots coupled with not being as good against heavy infantry as the Impalers are. That being said, I have had some good results with a squad of 6 in a Tyrannocyte dropping in and nuking stuff.
And yeah, if T8 is your main problem the Rupture Cannon should be fine. I'd just caution you that it is a very specific tool so you may want to magnetize the arms to give some flexibility.
2020/02/25 03:49:06
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
My army has a Tyrannocyte, but also has a Meleceptor, Toxicrene and Tyrannofex w/Acid Spray.
Which one goes into the 'Cyte?
Thankfully you don't have to decide until set-up, but my first choice would probably be the Toxicrene. With Blood of Baal, you really want the Malceptor to be in the middle of your army (or ideally around your most important components) to keep Encephalic Diffusion up and running. Now between the Toxicrene and Tyrannofex, I'd be more comfortable with the Tyrannofex starting on the table since it is a bit tougher (T8 works better with Encephalic Diffusion, extra wounds) and it isn't as concerned with its damage table since the primary gun hits automatically. The Toxicrene has a rough table in comparison and the more wounds it has going into a combat the more opportunities it has for acid blood to spike some damage back at the opponent (keep Catalyst on it if at all possible - the interaction is funny).
Admittedly I do have a bit of bias. One of my favorite melee-centric builds had a pair of Toxicrenes in Tyrannocytes. They are fairly cheap compared to monsters of the same size class and have a good toolbox.
2020/02/26 19:31:30
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
You know, this whole discussion is making me wonder, but other than some FW models...is there any monster that the Tyrannocyte can't transport (excepting other Tyrannocyte/Sporocysts)?
Strat_N8 wrote: The Toxicrene has a rough table in comparison and the more wounds it has going into a combat the more opportunities it has for acid blood to spike some damage back at the opponent (keep Catalyst on it if at all possible - the interaction is funny).
Let's also factor in that the Toxicrene has Dermic Symbiosis.
Eihnlazer wrote: It cant transport anything with more than 20 wounds, as far as monsterous creatures go.
It can't transport anything with more than 14 wounds actually. Although I don't think there's any difference, as we don't have anything in-between 14 and 20 wounds.
2020/03/01 11:41:41
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
TL;DR
Missions were based on adepticon and only went 5 rounds. Somehow this guy managed to dodge all the Marine list, but played against a Lot of chaos.
Unique thing is taking the Behemoth for +1 to wound power on GS to get rend on 5s. Also, put Murderous Size adapation and Syches of Tyran Relic on Flyrant.
Unstoppable hunger +1 to wound
Murderous size Adaptaion +1 st +1 dmg, +1 ap WLT Monsteround Hunger, 6s to wound do +1 damagae
Toxin sacs explode 6s damage
Relic: Sythes of Tyran +1s +1 A, AP-3 Dmg 3
A: 6 attacks reroll 1, S8 -4 APDMG 4, 6's to wound do 6 dmg (5s with unstoppable hunger)
Thoughts?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/03 15:37:43
10000+
10000+
8500+
3000+
8000+
3500+ IK Plus 1x Warhound, Reaver, Warlord Titans
TL;DR
Missions were based on adepticon and only went 5 rounds. Somehow this guy managed to dodge all the Marine list, but played against a Lot of chaos.
Unique thing is taking the Behemoth for +1 to wound power on GS to get rend on 5s. Also, put Murderous Size adapation and Syches of Tyran Relic on Flyrant.
Unstoppable hunger +1 to wound
Murderous size Adaptaion +1 st +1 dmg, +1 ap WLT Monsteround Hunger, 6s to wound do +1 damagae
Toxin sacs explode 6s damage
Relic: Sythes of Tyran +1s +1 A, AP-3 Dmg 3
A: 6 attacks reroll 1, S8 -4 APDMG 4, 6's to wound do 6 dmg (5s with unstoppable hunger)
Thoughts?
That youtube channel is very messy. Where can I find the list that won?
TL;DR
Missions were based on adepticon and only went 5 rounds. Somehow this guy managed to dodge all the Marine list, but played against a Lot of chaos.
Unique thing is taking the Behemoth for +1 to wound power on GS to get rend on 5s. Also, put Murderous Size adapation and Syches of Tyran Relic on Flyrant.
Unstoppable hunger +1 to wound
Murderous size Adaptaion +1 st +1 dmg, +1 ap WLT Monsteround Hunger, 6s to wound do +1 damagae
Toxin sacs explode 6s damage
Relic: Sythes of Tyran +1s +1 A, AP-3 Dmg 3
A: 6 attacks reroll 1, S8 -4 APDMG 4, 6's to wound do 6 dmg (5s with unstoppable hunger)
Thoughts?
That youtube channel is very messy. Where can I find the list that won?
Its in the video, like a minute in.
10000+
10000+
8500+
3000+
8000+
3500+ IK Plus 1x Warhound, Reaver, Warlord Titans
Fisheyes wrote: Is it necessary to combine different <have fleets> to stay competitive? Or can you mono faction with reasonable success.
How are you guys managing to keep everything organized? Colored bases I assume
Unless you're looking to go undefeated at a major, you don't need to combine hive fleets. Gauge your local meta or where you intend to compete and decide. Only the top level needs this type of efficiency - you should be able to get away with some level of inefficiency locally.
2020/03/04 03:27:07
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
.
8000 points fully painted
1k sons killteam
10000+
8500+
3000+
8000+
3500+ IK Plus 1x Warhound, Reaver, Warlord Titans
