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So, apparently President Obama is spreading his deep insight and vast wisdom to the world - starting with digging at old wounds of the Catholic/Protestant strife in Northern Ireland. Yep, peace and understanding should start kicking in any day now.

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2013/06/19/obama-offends-catholics-in-the-uk-says-religious-schools-are-divisive-78053

The Catholic media is up in arms over comments President Obama made during a speech while in Northern Ireland for the G8 summit. Obama made what is described as “an alarming call for an end to Catholic education,” in spite of the fact that it is considered “a critical component of the Church.”

In front of an audience of about 2,000 young people, including many Catholics, Obama claimed that Catholic education divides people and blocks peace, according to the Scottish Catholic Observer.

“If towns remain divided—if Catholics have their schools and buildings and Protestants have theirs, if we can’t see ourselves in one another and fear or resentment are allowed to harden—that too encourages division and discourages cooperation,” Obama said.

Catholic World News noted:

Ironically, President Obama made his comments just as Archbishop Gerhard Müller, the prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, told a crowd in Scotland that religious education upholds the dignity of the human person. Archbishop Müller said that Catholic schools should promote “all that is good in the philosophies of societies and human culture.”

Fr. John Zuhlsdorf quoted the Observer’s article on Fr. Z’s blog and added:

Another example of what this man wants: total isolation of any religious values in the private sphere alone. Pres. Obama is working either to intimidate or legislate or even TAX religious freedom out of the public square.

Off the top of my head, I can’t think of a foreign visit to a Islamic nation where he told people on his arrival that they shouldn’t have madrasas. Can you?

Did he when visiting, say, Israel, say “You Jews shouldn’t have synagogue schools and you Muslims shouldn’t have mosque schools.” I can’t remember. Did he?

Each of the articles drew numerous public comments, most suggesting that Obama be more concerned about the public schools in the United States than their parochial schools, which are working just fine.

Then again, I had Irish nuns teaching at my school in Warner Robins, GA. Not a shred of maternal instinct amongst the lot of them.

If you dont grow up interacting with and getting to know different people, it is much harder to break down the walls between factions and reach understanding.

It isnt exactly rocket science. But then i guess one shouldnt expect any other reaction from institutions desperate to get their claws into children in an attempt to "bring them into the fold" and keep up their flagging membership numbers in the face of someone pushing for secular learnimg.

Stop screwing around with Religion Obama. People are touchy as all heck on that. If Islam haven't clue you in yet I've two hints with 99.9% of Dakka going to agreed with why not. Left the .01% for fudge factor because there's going to be "That Guy"

Anyone find any irony in his saying their devisive after the hearing some of the stuff coming from the church he spent years and years attending?

 djones520 wrote:
Anyone find any irony in his saying their devisive after the hearing some of the stuff coming from the church he spent years and years attending?

Better to work with first hand knowledge

'History's Greatest Monster' says 'if we don't mix and remain secular/ghettoized, we risk developing distrust of the people we're not mixing with'.


I agree with this outrageous statement 100%.

I too obviously set out to offend the Catholic church, did I succeed?

“If towns remain divided—if Catholics have their schools and buildings and Protestants have theirs..."

Sounds accurate to me. The reaction to this seems like more evidence of the divide reinforced by the way they keep each other seperate.

Why is he even in Ireland again?

Really shouldnt start talking about religion in ireland, your pretty much painting a target on yourself to some people.

Yet another reason i dont follow a religion

He's right, religious schools are divisive because they discourage people of different backgrounds mixing/integrating. If he'd said this about islamic schools people would be nodding in agreement, but he said it about christian schools, so that's *different*.

Who cares? He should be saying how many IRS people he fired over the recent scandal, that Eric Holder has been fired for signing off on blanket wiretaps of reporters, and why he's resigning in favor of Frazzled and his Manifest Destiny II This Time Its Vertical foreign policy agenda.

'History's Greatest Monster'

I counter back with

"Da Chosen One"

which someone in a bit going throw in

"Change we can believe in"

Isn't he on tour...like a vacation tour or something? Heard he was suppose to hitting Africa soon to. Decided not to go on the Safari tour due to the amount of money it would cost to keep him safe from the wildlife. Secret Service do not need an opportunity to nail a cheetah, lion, panther, or some natural predator that gets within a mile of the POTUS to ensure his kid and wife safety. We have Safari parks here in the US that are much more safer

 Jihadin wrote:
Stop screwing around with Religion Obama. People are touchy as all heck on that. If Islam haven't clue you in yet I've two hints with 99.9% of Dakka going to agreed with why not. Left the .01% for fudge factor because there's going to be "That Guy"

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I read your post and I honest to God cannot figure out what you are trying to say.

 Icarusthepilot wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
Stop screwing around with Religion Obama. People are touchy as all heck on that. If Islam haven't clue you in yet I've two hints with 99.9% of Dakka going to agreed with why not. Left the .01% for fudge factor because there's going to be "That Guy"

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I read your post and I honest to God cannot figure out what you are trying to say.

I think that means you're "THAT GUY."

Why are Catholics worldwide supposed to be offended by this again?

Iraq and Afghanistan. Its the "Benchmark" policy that was impose on them. Now that I remember I brought this up before with Shuma and not many people understood what I was talking about

I'm struggling by his "Catholic education divides people and blocks peace"...

What does he really mean by that? That all schools should be secular?

 whembly wrote:
I'm struggling by his "Catholic education divides people and blocks peace"...

What does he really mean by that? That all schools should be secular?

Well, according to the blockquote in the OP, he didn't say that.

Please please please tell me he didn't boast about the US School System.

 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:

 whembly wrote:
I'm struggling by his "Catholic education divides people and blocks peace"...

What does he really mean by that? That all schools should be secular?

Well, according to the blockquote in the OP, he didn't say that.

Not talking about Obama, but the writer....

EDIT: As much as I dislike Obama... I think that article is reading too much into O's statements. I reserve my right to change my mind if I can see a youtube of his speech.

I'd prefer to see/read what he said in full rather than just an excerpt that could very easily be taken out of context. Northern Ireland has had very good historical reason for the segregation of it's population. When the Troubles flared up mixed housing estates became single religion only overnight, others took longer and with encouragement from unsavory elements. As recently as a few years ago Catholic children going to school near Loyalist areas were harassed.

Sectarianism aside some of the best schools in Northern Ireland are the religious based ones.

 whembly wrote:
EDIT: As much as I dislike Obama... I think that article is reading too much into O's statements. I reserve my right to change my mind if I can see a youtube of his speech.

It also seems to ignore that the cultural context for a Catholic/protestant divide in the UK is a little different than in the US, and tries to make it sound like a universal condemnation when really it is addressing a specific manifestation of division that has been harmful in the past.

I guess my take on this is, going to Northern Ireland and pontificating about... well, pretty much anything... is a good way to start a fight, not build a path to a brighter future.

 Breotan wrote:
I guess my take on this is, going to Northern Ireland and pontificating about... well, pretty much anything... is a good way to start a fight, not build a path to a brighter future.

Especially when it looks like (from the quote above which may not be wholly representative) Obama may be ignorant of current and historical events. Along interface areas there is still violence and intimidation today, it's even worse during the marching season.

 Breotan wrote:
I guess my take on this is, going to Northern Ireland and pontificating about... well, pretty much anything... is a good way to start a fight, not build a path to a brighter future.

He wasn't talking about...pretty much anything, he was talking about the divide between Catholics and Protestants, which could be said to be a salient point when in Northern Ireland, especially from the leader of the free world.

He did not 'pontificate', he suggested that more integration between the communities was liable to bring about greater understanding and tolerance. Why would that start a fight, unless it was taken and warped beyond recognition by the sort of people who cannot allow him to even choose a tie without it being a stupid move, a sinister move or a move that they're going to find any way possible to stretch into something they can hate.

This article is flimsy partisan bollocks.


And your take was made pretty clear in your opening sentence in your first post, 'deep insight and vast wisdom - digging at old wounds'... So please avoid attempts at 'Hey I'm just innocently commenting', when even Whembly, who thinks Obama eats babies, said 'yeah, not much juice in this'.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

And your take was made pretty clear in your opening sentence in your first post, 'deep insight and vast wisdom - digging at old wounds'... So please avoid attempts at 'Hey I'm just innocently commenting', when even Whembly, who thinks Obama eats babies, said 'yeah, not much juice in this'.

He eat dogs... babies don't have the flavor...

Um... how does:

“If towns remain divided—if Catholics have their schools and buildings and Protestants have theirs, if we can’t see ourselves in one another and fear or resentment are allowed to harden—that too encourages division and discourages cooperation,” Obama said.

Equal "ban Catholic schools"?

It is possible to have religious schools that mix and mingle different groups. If nothing else through cooperative community programs.

Here in TT I met a Christian girl with Hindu parents who goes to a Muslim school, and that's pretty normal.

In the good ole US of A I know a town where the Mosque, Synagog and Church are all next to each other and share a parking a lot since they use it on different days.

In the normally toxic environment of Israel and Palestine after Jewish settlers burned a Mosque a local Synagog donated new Korans to them.

So there's a lot more that can be done to bring people together and saying

“If towns remain divided—if Catholics have their schools and buildings and Protestants have theirs, if we can’t see ourselves in one another and fear or resentment are allowed to harden—that too encourages division and discourages cooperation,” Obama said.

Does not mean 'ban religious schools'.

But far be it for me to introduce moderation and sanity to a good politics and religion thread.

Good god (no pun intended, of course), this is stupid. He said schools separated by religion encourage division along religious lines, a perfectly logical statement.

if Catholics have their schools and buildings and Protestants have theirs

He wasn't attacking Catholic schools or Catholicism, he was pointing out an easily observable fact: kids raised in Catholic schools aren't going to be associating much with kids raised in Protestant schools, and both are going to grow up to be relatively unsympathetic towards one another as a result. It's not rocket science.

 rubiksnoob wrote:
Good god (no pun intended, of course), this is stupid. He said schools separated by religion encourage division along religious lines, a perfectly logical statement.

if Catholics have their schools and buildings and Protestants have theirs

He wasn't attacking Catholic schools or Catholicism, he was pointing out an easily observable fact: kids raised in Catholic schools aren't going to be associating much with kids raised in Protestant schools, and both are going to grow up to be relatively unsympathetic towards one another as a result. It's not rocket science.

Do we really have evidence of that?

I think it's just donkey-caves in the past using religion to justify their actions.

*shrugs*

 whembly wrote:

 rubiksnoob wrote:
Good god (no pun intended, of course), this is stupid. He said schools separated by religion encourage division along religious lines, a perfectly logical statement.

if Catholics have their schools and buildings and Protestants have theirs

He wasn't attacking Catholic schools or Catholicism, he was pointing out an easily observable fact: kids raised in Catholic schools aren't going to be associating much with kids raised in Protestant schools, and both are going to grow up to be relatively unsympathetic towards one another as a result. It's not rocket science.

Do we really have evidence of that?

I think it's just donkey-caves in the past using religion to justify their actions.

*shrugs*

I mean, it's not too hard to imagine.

I went to a catholic high school for 2 years, and the whole experience was incredibly anti-semitic. Just my anecdotal 2 cents.