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Made in de
Rampaging Furioso Blood Angel Dreadnought






Germany

 Fan67 wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
Why give the Pink Horrors an Instrument?


You need 5pts spare, but It is insane: you deepstrike them, charge something, catch overwatch, one pink dies, and suddenly you require only 6” to charge, possibly locking multiple enemy units.
Works like charm against tau, eldars and imperial guard. You are paving highway for your letters.


I guess you refer to their split ability ? With 2 blue horrors (one pink can split into two blue) you can make that a 4" charge. Nice idea.
   
Made in gb
Huge Hierodule






Nottingham (yay!)

I can see the split trick getting FAQ’d away when it becomes instrumental in some big tournament wins


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Poxwalker shenanigans took a similar hit

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/23 10:14:25


   
Made in fr
Fresh-Faced New User





Hey guys, in your opinion, what God should I pick if I want to play a mono God daemon list?
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






 -Ekko- wrote:
Hey guys, in your opinion, what God should I pick if I want to play a mono God daemon list?


I am fairly sure the response you'll get will mainly be telling you to go Nurgle (Nurgle is the big competitive fad atm). My opinion though, with the current rate of Games Workshop changing things, is to find the God/Faction you identify most with and enjoy the models and the play style of that God/army.

Playing it will inform your decisions from there and things are likely to continue to be balanced/adjusted so things that seem worthless right now, may be good. I play mono Slaanesh and never took Exalted chariots because they were overpriced at 100+ points. Now they're considerably cheaper and I like to fit as many as I can in depending on the list I'm making. They've really proven themselves lately... but I love Slaanesh, love the models and the style. I really get immersed in my faction. If you're having fun with the army you'll find ways to play/win. That's my 2 cents on where to start in this hobby.

Maybe I am just not ultra-competitive enough.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/23 12:34:17


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






What's funny (and awesome?) is that competitive daemons now actually rewards those who go Chaos Undivided with their collections. Every god has some competitive picks at this point. The toughest mono-army to win a game with is probably Khorne, but if you're determined I'm sure it's doable.


Off the top of my head:

Nurgle
Competitive: Plaguebearers, nurglings, poxbringers, sloppity bilepiper, spoilpox scrivener, daemon princes
Semi-competitive: Plague drones, Great Unclean One

Khorne
Competitive: Bloodletters, bloodmaster, daemon princes
Semi-competitive: Blood throne, skulltaker

Tzeentch
Competitive: Pink horrors, changecasters, daemon princes
Semi-competitive: Blue horrors, brimstone horrors, exalted flamers, Lord of Change

Slaanesh
Competitive: Syll'Esske, contorted epitome, infernal enrapturess, daemon princes
Semi-competitive: daemonettes, masque of Slaanesh, heralds of Slaanesh

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2019/07/23 17:56:54


   
Made in it
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





 slave.entity wrote:
What's funny (and awesome?) is that competitive daemons now actually rewards those who go Chaos Undivided with their collections. Every god has some competitive picks at this point. The toughest mono-army to win a game with is probably Khorne, but if you're determined I'm sure it's doable.


Off the top of my head:

Nurgle
Competitive: Plaguebearers, nurglings, poxbringers, sloppity bilepiper, spoilpox scrivener, daemon princes
Semi-competitive: Plague drones, Great Unclean One

Khorne
Competitive: Bloodletters, bloodmaster, daemon princes
Semi-competitive: Blood throne, skulltaker

Tzeentch
Competitive: Pink horrors, changecasters, daemon princes
Semi-competitive: Blue horrors, brimstone horrors, exalted flamers, Lord of Change

Slaanesh
Competitive: Syll'Esske, contorted epitome, infernal enrapturess, daemon princes
Semi-competitive: daemonettes, masque of Slaanesh, heralds of Slaanesh


the only monogod who made good results is nurgle based, anyway if you go take a look at all high ranking demon armies they all play soup (nugle+korne (BL)+ Tz (horrors) )

3rd place league tournament
03-18-2018
2nd place league tournament
06-12-2018
3rd place league
tournament
12-09-2018
3rd place league tournament
01-13-2019
1st place league tournament
01-27-2019
1st place league
tournament
02-25-2019 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





hey guys, played vs a Daemon army for first time last week and was hit by Mortarian (souped up with psychic powers) that basically generated 54 attacks against my unit. Since I'm unfamiliar with this (it was a tournament, so wasn't going to bog it down by asking all how all the bonuses stacked) could someone enlighten me how this is done (so I'm better prepared next time). I believe it had to do with sweeping attacks, Death to the False Emperor on 5+ and those extra attacks spawning into 3 attacks, etc.
Cheers
   
Made in de
Rampaging Furioso Blood Angel Dreadnought






Germany

 bullyboy wrote:
hey guys, played vs a Daemon army for first time last week and was hit by Mortarian (souped up with psychic powers) that basically generated 54 attacks against my unit. Since I'm unfamiliar with this (it was a tournament, so wasn't going to bog it down by asking all how all the bonuses stacked) could someone enlighten me how this is done (so I'm better prepared next time). I believe it had to do with sweeping attacks, Death to the False Emperor on 5+ and those extra attacks spawning into 3 attacks, etc.
Cheers


From what you say, it sounds illegal. Morty does have sweeping attacks, and he can generate bonus attacks from DTTFE on 5+, when he gets +1 to hit. But he doesnt get 3 additional attacks. Thats the warlord trait from CSM chapter ultimate confidence, morty cant use that, he is death guard. His warlord trait is fixed, its arch-contaminator.
   
Made in gb
Latest Wrack in the Pits





 p5freak wrote:
 Fan67 wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
Why give the Pink Horrors an Instrument?


You need 5pts spare, but It is insane: you deepstrike them, charge something, catch overwatch, one pink dies, and suddenly you require only 6” to charge, possibly locking multiple enemy units.
Works like charm against tau, eldars and imperial guard. You are paving highway for your letters.


I guess you refer to their split ability ? With 2 blue horrors (one pink can split into two blue) you can make that a 4" charge. Nice idea.


No because you have to place any new models within 2" of a model that was on the board at the start of the phase. It's in one of the FAQs. So the most you can reduce the charge by splitting is 3". 9.1" away, 2" + 25mm base (0.98") brings you down to 6.12" needing a 6 on the charge roll, 5 with an instrument.


 
   
Made in de
Rampaging Furioso Blood Angel Dreadnought






Germany

 Mushkilla wrote:


No because you have to place any new models within 2" of a model that was on the board at the start of the phase. It's in one of the FAQs. So the most you can reduce the charge by splitting is 3". 9.1" away, 2" + 25mm base (0.98") brings you down to 6.12" needing a 6 on the charge roll, 5 with an instrument.


I think you refer to this :

Q: Some rules allow me to add models to a unit during the battle
(e.g. the Poxwalker’s Curse of the Walking Pox ability). Where are
those models set up?
A: Unless otherwise stated, these new models are placed
anywhere that is more than 1" from any enemy model and
still within unit coherency of a model in its own unit that
was itself on the battlefield at the start of the phase in
which the new model was created. Note that if you cannot
set up a new model on the battlefield because there is no
room, it is simply not set up.


Note that it says unless otherwise stated. The split rule has specific instructions how to place the blue horrors. The FAQ above only applies if there are no specific instructions how to place new models. The blue horrors must still be placed within unit coherency, because they are added to the pink horror unit.

Split
Each time a Pink Horror is slain, you can add up to two Blue Horrors to this unit before you remove the slain model. Each time a Blue Horror is slain, you can add one pair of Brimstone Horrors to this unit before you remove the slain model. The replacement models cannot be placed within 1" of an enemy model. Note that Horrors that flee do not generate any extra models for their unit. Matched Play: In matched play you must pay reinforcement points for each and every Blue and Brimstone Horror model that you add to a unit of Horrors, but the additional models can take the unit above its starting strength.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




My understanding of "otherwise stated" is that the rule would have to specifically contradict the statement, and the split rule doesn't. In my opinion it doesn't work, but I guess that's something to ask in "You make the call".

Anyway, a 5" charge is already amazing.
   
Made in gb
Huge Hierodule






Nottingham (yay!)

Yeah, I’m absolutely reading that as the general rule on adding models to a unit still applies, and it’s a hell of a reach to assume that your opponent/TO will acquiesce to any other reading.

5” charge from deep strike/summon is still brilliant, especially on a unit with the endurance to take some nasty overwatch on behalf of a hammer unit. Honestly, you could do it for 53 Reinforcement Points (8 Brimstones, 1 sacrificial Pink, 1 Pink with Instrument, 1 Blue), and easily save that much in dead beatsticks (say, Berzerkers in a Chaos soup list). (Fringe benefit of potential Summoning VPs in a Maelstrom game as well)

Only issue is it does rely on your opponent hitting and wounding enough with OW to get past a 4++ and not wipe out the rest of the Horrors, which makes it null against the sort of massed 8” auto-hit that characterises your typical OW monster.

   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle




In My Lab

 p5freak wrote:
 bullyboy wrote:
hey guys, played vs a Daemon army for first time last week and was hit by Mortarian (souped up with psychic powers) that basically generated 54 attacks against my unit. Since I'm unfamiliar with this (it was a tournament, so wasn't going to bog it down by asking all how all the bonuses stacked) could someone enlighten me how this is done (so I'm better prepared next time). I believe it had to do with sweeping attacks, Death to the False Emperor on 5+ and those extra attacks spawning into 3 attacks, etc.
Cheers


From what you say, it sounds illegal. Morty does have sweeping attacks, and he can generate bonus attacks from DTTFE on 5+, when he gets +1 to hit. But he doesnt get 3 additional attacks. Thats the warlord trait from CSM chapter ultimate confidence, morty cant use that, he is death guard. His warlord trait is fixed, its arch-contaminator.
He gets one extra attack, which turns into three hit rolls from Sweeping Attacks.

That being said, he has, what? 6 Attacks?

So that's 18 hit rolls with sweeping blows. Even proccing DttFE on a 5+, he should get an average of 36 attacks. The odds of getting 54 are pretty damn slim, requiring 12 5+ on 18 dice.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in ca
Eternally-Stimulated Slaanesh Dreadnought





Rzhev, Kronstaat IV

Anyone else kinda PO'd that we don't get Commanders or Elites in KT?

The Fall of Kronstaat IV - Daemonettes and Renegades and Heretics, Oh My
Война Народная | Voyna Narodnaya | The People's War - 2,854pts painted (updated 26/07/19)
Волшебная Сказка | Volshebnaya Skazka | A Fairy Tale (updated 08/05/19, ep8 - Звезда | Zvezda | The Star)
Kabal of The Violet Heart (updated 16/07/19)

I was killed at Rzhev, in a nameless alley
In Fifth Battalion, on the left flank, in a cruel ambush
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 JNAProductions wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
 bullyboy wrote:
hey guys, played vs a Daemon army for first time last week and was hit by Mortarian (souped up with psychic powers) that basically generated 54 attacks against my unit. Since I'm unfamiliar with this (it was a tournament, so wasn't going to bog it down by asking all how all the bonuses stacked) could someone enlighten me how this is done (so I'm better prepared next time). I believe it had to do with sweeping attacks, Death to the False Emperor on 5+ and those extra attacks spawning into 3 attacks, etc.
Cheers


From what you say, it sounds illegal. Morty does have sweeping attacks, and he can generate bonus attacks from DTTFE on 5+, when he gets +1 to hit. But he doesnt get 3 additional attacks. Thats the warlord trait from CSM chapter ultimate confidence, morty cant use that, he is death guard. His warlord trait is fixed, its arch-contaminator.
He gets one extra attack, which turns into three hit rolls from Sweeping Attacks.

That being said, he has, what? 6 Attacks?

So that's 18 hit rolls with sweeping blows. Even proccing DttFE on a 5+, he should get an average of 36 attacks. The odds of getting 54 are pretty damn slim, requiring 12 5+ on 18 dice.

I think he was given additional attacks maybe? But he definitely rolled 10 or 11 5+, it was ugly. So Prescience for the increased DTTFE, not sure what else. He had a lot of psykers. Very similar to this
[Thumb - austin-atc.jpg]

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/07/24 17:08:32


 
   
Made in gb
Huge Hierodule






Nottingham (yay!)

 JNAProductions wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
 bullyboy wrote:
hey guys, played vs a Daemon army for first time last week and was hit by Mortarian (souped up with psychic powers) that basically generated 54 attacks against my unit. Since I'm unfamiliar with this (it was a tournament, so wasn't going to bog it down by asking all how all the bonuses stacked) could someone enlighten me how this is done (so I'm better prepared next time). I believe it had to do with sweeping attacks, Death to the False Emperor on 5+ and those extra attacks spawning into 3 attacks, etc.
Cheers


From what you say, it sounds illegal. Morty does have sweeping attacks, and he can generate bonus attacks from DTTFE on 5+, when he gets +1 to hit. But he doesnt get 3 additional attacks. Thats the warlord trait from CSM chapter ultimate confidence, morty cant use that, he is death guard. His warlord trait is fixed, its arch-contaminator.
He gets one extra attack, which turns into three hit rolls from Sweeping Attacks.

That being said, he has, what? 6 Attacks?

So that's 18 hit rolls with sweeping blows. Even proccing DttFE on a 5+, he should get an average of 36 attacks. The odds of getting 54 are pretty damn slim, requiring 12 5+ on 18 dice.

Throw in Diabolic Strength for +1A and Blades of Putrefaction for MW galore and his damage output reaches terrifying heights

Also, don’t forget that he can advance - twice, with Warptime - and still shoot & charge if he starts his turn next to a Gnarlmaw

   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought






 p5freak wrote:
 Mushkilla wrote:


No because you have to place any new models within 2" of a model that was on the board at the start of the phase. It's in one of the FAQs. So the most you can reduce the charge by splitting is 3". 9.1" away, 2" + 25mm base (0.98") brings you down to 6.12" needing a 6 on the charge roll, 5 with an instrument.


I think you refer to this :

Q: Some rules allow me to add models to a unit during the battle
(e.g. the Poxwalker’s Curse of the Walking Pox ability). Where are
those models set up?
A: Unless otherwise stated, these new models are placed
anywhere that is more than 1" from any enemy model and
still within unit coherency of a model in its own unit that
was itself on the battlefield at the start of the phase in
which the new model was created. Note that if you cannot
set up a new model on the battlefield because there is no
room, it is simply not set up.


Note that it says unless otherwise stated. The split rule has specific instructions how to place the blue horrors. The FAQ above only applies if there are no specific instructions how to place new models. The blue horrors must still be placed within unit coherency, because they are added to the pink horror unit.

Split
Each time a Pink Horror is slain, you can add up to two Blue Horrors to this unit before you remove the slain model. Each time a Blue Horror is slain, you can add one pair of Brimstone Horrors to this unit before you remove the slain model. The replacement models cannot be placed within 1" of an enemy model. Note that Horrors that flee do not generate any extra models for their unit. Matched Play: In matched play you must pay reinforcement points for each and every Blue and Brimstone Horror model that you add to a unit of Horrors, but the additional models can take the unit above its starting strength.


1 dead pink can split into 2 blues bringing it down to 3.14" without an instrument. It's a hell of a gimmick but easily countered by not shooting overwatch into them.

Chaos isn’t a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail, and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some are given a chance to climb, but refuse. They cling to the realm, or love, or the gods…illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is, but they’ll never know this. Not until it’s too late.


 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle




In My Lab

Don't you HAVE to shoot Overwatch?

And also, don't you have to place both Blues in coherency with an already-existing model?

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in de
Rampaging Furioso Blood Angel Dreadnought






Germany

 JNAProductions wrote:
Don't you HAVE to shoot Overwatch?


Well, the rules say you can attempt to fire overwatch. Which means you dont have to. So this trick can work if your opponent doesnt know the split rule.

 JNAProductions wrote:

And also, don't you have to place both Blues in coherency with an already-existing model?


I dont think so. The split rule has specific instructions how to place new models. Which means the FAQ answer from the poxwalkers dont apply to horrors.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 p5freak wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
Don't you HAVE to shoot Overwatch?


Well, the rules say you can attempt to fire overwatch. Which means you dont have to. So this trick can work if your opponent doesnt know the split rule.

 JNAProductions wrote:

And also, don't you have to place both Blues in coherency with an already-existing model?


I dont think so. The split rule has specific instructions how to place new models. Which means the FAQ answer from the poxwalkers dont apply to horrors.


While fun to have another RAW vs RAI argument, the practical answer is if you are planning to do this in a tournament setting run it by the TO beforehand. I can easily see many TO giving you a tableside ruling that this isn't possible.

Similarly in a fun/casual game it would be good to give your opponent a heads up.
   
Made in gb
Latest Wrack in the Pits





 p5freak wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

And also, don't you have to place both Blues in coherency with an already-existing model?


I dont think so. The split rule has specific instructions how to place new models. Which means the FAQ answer from the poxwalkers dont apply to horrors.


That's not a FAQ specific to poxwalkers it just uses poxwalkers as an example. It's part of the main rule book FAQ. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a TO that rules that this FAQ doesn't affect horrors. Especially cause I recall that FAQ was a direct result of the Death Blossom list which combined splitting horrors with hordes of poxwalkers.

But maybe I'm wrong?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/07/25 16:38:18



 
   
Made in se
Regular Dakkanaut




Yeah, it was FAQ. Poxwalkers was the example in the question. But if you got an instrument it will only be something like 5-6”.

Thinking on testing a 20man unit with 4-10blue horrors and instrument. Hopefully a few pinks will die so I can place blue ones here and there and make a multi charge simply to tie up as many units I can. Only thing I need to take care of is killing units that deny my conga line.
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought






I'm thinking of dusting off my deamons. Supreme command of 3 renegade commanders to summon. Tzeench heralds, flamers, and exalted flamers in a vanguard. Nurgle battalion with 120 plague bearers. Break the rule of 3 with summoning for more flamers and exalted flamers. The exhausted should be safe behind everything else. I have 21 flamer models from 6th ed when they were stupid OP.

Chaos isn’t a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail, and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some are given a chance to climb, but refuse. They cling to the realm, or love, or the gods…illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is, but they’ll never know this. Not until it’s too late.


 
   
Made in de
Rampaging Furioso Blood Angel Dreadnought






Germany

You are not breaking the rule of 3 with summoning. And there is no rule of 3. Its a suggestion for organised play.
   
Made in ca
Eternally-Stimulated Slaanesh Dreadnought





Rzhev, Kronstaat IV

In my experience, while the Rule of Three is not a de facto rule, it is treated as if it is by the community at large. Trying to simply ignore it would not work out well, I'd wager.

That said, yeah, the RoT is a list-building restriction. Summoning sidesteps the RoT, it doesn't 'break' it.

The Fall of Kronstaat IV - Daemonettes and Renegades and Heretics, Oh My
Война Народная | Voyna Narodnaya | The People's War - 2,854pts painted (updated 26/07/19)
Волшебная Сказка | Volshebnaya Skazka | A Fairy Tale (updated 08/05/19, ep8 - Звезда | Zvezda | The Star)
Kabal of The Violet Heart (updated 16/07/19)

I was killed at Rzhev, in a nameless alley
In Fifth Battalion, on the left flank, in a cruel ambush
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






I have been having some interesting success with a new list I am trying out. It consists of:

+++ Wednesday Game (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [109 PL, 1,995pts] +++

++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Daemons) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Chaos Allegiance: Slaanesh

+ HQ +

Keeper of Secrets: Delightful Agonies, Sinistrous hand, Symphony of Pain

Keeper of Secrets: Cacophonic Choir, Living whip, Phantasmagoria

Shalaxi Helbane: Hysterical Frenzy, Shining aegis

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Daemons) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Chaos Allegiance: Slaanesh

+ HQ +

The Contorted Epitome

+ Elites +

Fiends: Blissbringer, 2x Fiend

Fiends: Blissbringer, 2x Fiend

Fiends: Blissbringer, 2x Fiend

+ Fast Attack +

Seekers: Daemonic Icon, Heartseeker, Instrument of Chaos, 9x Seeker

Seekers: Daemonic Icon, Heartseeker, Instrument of Chaos, 9x Seeker

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Daemons) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Chaos Allegiance: Slaanesh

+ HQ +

Herald of Slaanesh on Steed

+ Heavy Support +

Exalted Seeker Chariot

Exalted Seeker Chariot

Exalted Seeker Chariot

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

I do not deep strike anything so far. I'm able to grab a lot of board control and react where needed. I have managed to pull off some fun flanking maneuvers with the Seekers/Exalted chariots as well.

So far I've tested the list against Genestealer Cults and a mix of Tzeentch Daemons/Thousand Sons and it's held up fairly well and it's fun to use.
   
Made in gb
Huge Hierodule






Nottingham (yay!)

Hmm. That looks like quite the exciting rushdown list. I should imagine that, whether you go first or not, you’ll get quite a few units drawn into some spiky tarpits. What’s your approach to Warlord and Relic selection?

   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






 lindsay40k wrote:
Hmm. That looks like quite the exciting rushdown list. I should imagine that, whether you go first or not, you’ll get quite a few units drawn into some spiky tarpits. What’s your approach to Warlord and Relic selection?


It's definitely fun to use with the amount of the speed it has haha. I've definitely gotten into someones lines a lot quicker with this list, and it's the entire force instead of piece meal so that helps. (or everyone is dead, which also helps shorten the game LOL).

My approach to warlord and relic selection has been pretty simple. I want the +1 to str buff on the Keepers so I make the Epitome the Warlord and give it Celerity of Slaanesh to make sure it can keep up with them. It also makes sure nothing can run from them if they get stuck in on something (fiends make double sure of that). For relics I just give one of the keepers the soulstealer, usually the one with the sinostrous hand just to double up on it but I'm gonna try giving it to the lady with the whip to spread the healing out. Haven't tested out using the gem or anything yet... I want to save the CP.

   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Guys stupid question but I must be stupid cause i cant find an answer. Can units be summoned in using Demonic Summoning Turn 1? I am afraid i cant find where it says you cant, but my opponent says due to the April FAQ that they cant be summoned due to reserves. I looked through the FAQ but i guess the stupid in me is winning out cause I am understanding that the demonic summoning would be except . Can anyone give an opinion. I have attached the faq if that helps at all.
[Thumb - faq.JPG]

   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle




In My Lab

You can indeed summon Turn 1.

They're not in Tactical Reserves at all.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
 
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