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Made in us
The New Miss Macross!





Deep Fryer of Mount Doom

Now, Star Wars has never been a massive hit in China but the downward trajectory of box office totals seems to have steepened in the mainline trilogy with ROS from the admittedly very early box office opening numbers. It's on track to do numbers closer to the spin off Solo... a movie whose box office take was so low (pun intended) that it was pulled from theaters in China after two weeks.


https://variety.com/2019/film/news/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-flops-debut-china-1203449672/

https://comicbook.com/starwars/2018/01/17/star-wars-the-last-jedi-dropped-china-movie-theaters/


Now I'm *really*really* interested to see the opening weekend and second weekend drop numbers in the US....


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/12/20 21:18:48


 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

We can’t see it until the second weekend. I hope by then that my expectations will be low enough that I’ll enjoy (some aspect of) the movie.

Somehow I’m more excited to see Cats for pure garbage fire value than the Final Star Wars Ever.

   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Dallas area, TX

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
…. the Final Star Wars Ever.
For now. But who knows, maybe the third time is the charm and this really will be the Final saga movie.

But I could easily see Disney delving into different eras, like the Old Republic, to get new trilogy material

-

   
Made in fi
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Dynas wrote:
After watching this film I felt JJ Abrams did what he had to do to fix the horror of Episode 8. I felt like you could watch 7 & 9 and still get a complete arc of this Sequel "Trilogy".

Much like the Force Awakens where JJ did what he had to do to put faith back in to the fan base, JJ once again is forced to try and build trust in the fan base, and I think he does that. He acknowledges and in my view, fixes/retcons? the errors and plot problems with Ep 8. Mainly the Holdo Light speed Maneuver, Reys lineage, and a lot less Rose.


Yeah see, for me this was a problem, plot 'reveals' were lame and hackneyed, basically fan fiction level and something which we have seen done before in old EU stories, and done better. Especially as JJ seemed hell-bent to reverse everything what happened in TLJ especially as not only there was no foreshadowing whatsoever for the plot, it flat out contradicted lots of what happened in Episodes 7 & 8.

Earlier I defended Kennedy for her role as a producer for the series, well now I have to take back much of what I said. Before I was under impression that there was some kind of overall plot arch for the series and Kennedy was only letting different directors have a go with it. But now it is obvious that they never made any kind of plot outline for the trilogy, Kennedy literally just hired different directors to write and direct a Star Wars movie and did nothing to coordinate the whole thing. Basically she was 'producing' the series in same way Mr Burns was 'coaching' his baseball team. "Hey you, go hit a home run!". It is true that Lucas made lots of stuff up as he went along and improvised a lot, however he did have overall vision in his mind all the time. KK never had anything like that, he just hired JJA for the series because he had done such a bang-up job with Star Trek Also, given how much RoS ripped off from EU stories, particularly Dark Empire, so much for "not having any source material" for the new movie!


Mr Vetock, give back my Multi-tracker! 
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority





 Galef wrote:
Going to see it tonight. Dressing up in my full Jedi garb.


I wish I had thought to bring a costume or some kind of disguise when I went to go see it. I was embarrassed and I think I may have been seen at the cinema.

Mob Rule is not a rule. 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





I've seen several reviews so far, and it seems to bear out what I expected. About half didn't like it with varying degrees of vehemence (Shad being the strongest so far), and the other half like it moderately well, but generally with some reservation over various plot holes.

Being liked moderately well by the people who DO like it generally doesn't bring in billion dollar sales. So I'm standing by my prediction of quite soft sales for a main sequence movie. More Solo than TFA.

It'll still be profitable, of course; lacking the extra expenses of reshoots Solo brought to the bottom line. But the profits will not be what Disney was hoping for when they coughed up several BILLION dollars for the property.

CHAOS! PANIC! DISORDER!
My job here is done. 
   
Made in us
Hangin' with Gork & Mork






Overall it was ok I suppose but also one of those films where after you see it the more things bug you. It felt like two movies plots mashed together, which I think goes to the bigger problem with these new movies as whole which is that there really wasn't a road map for the story. For example the revelation of Rey's heritage doesn't feel authentic or organic. It feels like when they made her character they wanted a mystery but didn't have a resolution for it and realized at the last minute they needed an answer and were like "oh I guess it is Palpatine?"

Anyone else annoyed that only Rey gets to see and hear Force Ghosts but Ben Solo doesn't? I thought at the end Anakin's Force would make an appearance, especially once Kylo turned from the Dark Side, but nope only Rey gets that privilege.

Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





Spoiler:
As an addendum to that point about Rey hearing Force Ghosts, Anakin's quote wound me up.

He said something along the lines of "Rey, restore the balance, like I did!"

But... Palpatine's alive, with a seemingly BIGGER armada all armed with mini-Death Star lasers, and everything achieved by Anakin's sacrifice led to absolutely nothing, beyond bringing Han and Leia together, inspiring their son to commit mass atrocities in his name, and later have a change of heart. What balance did he restore, exactly?


They/them

 
   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Spoiler:
As an addendum to that point about Rey hearing Force Ghosts, Anakin's quote wound me up.

He said something along the lines of "Rey, restore the balance, like I did!"

But... Palpatine's alive, with a seemingly BIGGER armada all armed with mini-Death Star lasers, and everything achieved by Anakin's sacrifice led to absolutely nothing, beyond bringing Han and Leia together, inspiring their son to commit mass atrocities in his name, and later have a change of heart. What balance did he restore, exactly?


To be fair, Star Wars has been gaking on that concept of the films' plot since before the prequels XD

   
Made in us
Norn Queen






Spoiler:
well Anakin has always been a bitch with an over inflated sense of self worth.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Dallas area, TX

Just got back from seeing it and I have say....

...I was not disappointed.

Leaps and bounds more entertaining than TLJ while at the same time adding context to TLJ that makes me officially like that movie.

You can say I drink the koolaid if you want, but that was money well spent. And several people liked my custom too

-

   
Made in us
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver





4th Obelisk On The Right

I just saw it. And I like it. Its no End Game but it was fun and emotional and certainly worth the ticket price (honestly the only cost benefit analysis that should go into seeing a movie).

Spoiler:
I completely agree that it was two movies smashed together though. I feel like what was intended was for the 8th movie to have Rey and Kylo chasing each other and fighting. With Kylo becoming Ben again in the final act. Then ep.9 would have been the pair of them fighting to stop Palpatine. Instead this played out in a single movie.

I really would have liked to see Ben Solo more and that is my biggest issue with how it all finished.


With all that being said I am glad we are done with the Skywalker story. Disney should now move forward with making their own story. What that is? No idea. But with Feige moving in I'm sure it will at least be fun.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/21 05:26:53


 
   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




Personally I begrudge the time lost to a bad film more than the money. Well, that and having to endure a movie theater, with the uncomfortable seats, trash and the noisy audiences.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/21 05:42:32


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in ca
Rampaging Carnifex





Toronto, Ontario

That was literally one of the worst films I've ever seen. Stuff just happens because reasons, everything meant to be dramatic either falls flat or is hilarious or both, and the whole thing just comes off as this totally uninspired mess that only exists because apparently star wars is a thing that must go on forever.
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
We can’t see it until the second weekend. I hope by then that my expectations will be low enough that I’ll enjoy (some aspect of) the movie.

Somehow I’m more excited to see Cats for pure garbage fire value than the Final Star Wars Ever.


Final? As if. As long as it makes money disney will keep on making 'em. And sequels showed you can make money just copying previous movies.

Nothing in ix makes further sequels impossible either. Ending is same as vi so since vi didn't finish up neither does this. Empire can be restored same way, bad guys can come back again. Only lnconvenience might be palpatine actor dying of old age but hey recast is always option

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Nihilistic Necron Lord






I enjoyed it well enough. Didn’t have the same emotional response that Endgame did, but I found it nicely entertaining. Quite liked the spy reveal. Need to let it simmer a bit and decide how I feel about the story.

 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Chief Deputy Sub Assistant Trainee Squig Handling Intern






Only thing I found a bit disappointing?

Spoiler:
The final battle. It was really cool and tense up until Lando arrived with hundreds, if not thousands of reinforcements.

Then we, well, I, didn’t get to see enough of that brawl. And I’d have liked more screen time for the gathered fleet, so I could see what ships are there.

Also glad my suspicion was correct and the threat of ‘Action 3PO’ was a deliberate misdirection.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/21 11:41:35


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Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Dallas area, TX

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Spoiler:
Also glad my suspicion was correct and the threat of ‘Action 3PO’ was a deliberate misdirection.
Spoiler:
Indeed, but 3PO and never been funnier or more endearing than in this one.

I also found the chemistry between Fin, Poe and Rey to be awesome.

If I had to pin down anything I was disappointed by, it would be the lack of manifestations of Force Ghost Anakin and Obiwan. The final confrontation between Rey and Palps might have been just that much better if Hayden Christensen made a physical appearance to help finally take him down.


Otherwise this was a good, enjoyable Star Wars movie. Certainly the best of the sequel trilogy
I don't understand any of the comments saying that this was a piece of garbage "worst film ever waste of time".
Like seriously, did I watch the same movie? Sure some things were predictable, but how is that bad?

Sometimes I get the impression that people are missing the point and looking for some deeper meaning.
Star Wars is SUPPOSED to be a mythological type story of good v evil, full of tropes and archetypes. And space magic. Mostly for kids. Enjoy it for what it is and stop expecting Shakespeare.

-

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/12/21 12:06:30


   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

Well that was a waste of money, not TLJ bad granted but bloody awful, it fails on almost every level to be a coherent story and you can see the damage TLJ did to the series all over this train wreck.

at least mandalorian is passable so far.
   
Made in us
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver





4th Obelisk On The Right

Voss wrote:
Personally I begrudge the time lost to a bad film more than the money. Well, that and having to endure a movie theater, with the uncomfortable seats, trash and the noisy audiences.


You need to find a better theater. I watched it in a plush recliner with room to stretch my legs out to the fullest in a clean and completely silent theater.

 
   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




 BrotherGecko wrote:
Voss wrote:
Personally I begrudge the time lost to a bad film more than the money. Well, that and having to endure a movie theater, with the uncomfortable seats, trash and the noisy audiences.


You need to find a better theater. I watched it in a plush recliner with room to stretch my legs out to the fullest in a clean and completely silent theater.


My theater experiences haven't varied from when I was a kid, no matter the country, state or city: Dim, dingy, and muttering.
Biggest difference I've ever experienced was the presence of sugared popcorn and beer to vary the smells slightly.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/12/21 13:57:17


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in gb
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General




We'll find out soon enough eh.

 Galef wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Spoiler:
Also glad my suspicion was correct and the threat of ‘Action 3PO’ was a deliberate misdirection.
Spoiler:
Indeed, but 3PO and never been funnier or more endearing than in this one.

I also found the chemistry between Fin, Poe and Rey to be awesome.

If I had to pin down anything I was disappointed by, it would be the lack of manifestations of Force Ghost Anakin and Obiwan. The final confrontation between Rey and Palps might have been just that much better if Hayden Christensen made a physical appearance to help finally take him down.


Otherwise this was a good, enjoyable Star Wars movie. Certainly the best of the sequel trilogy
I don't understand any of the comments saying that this was a piece of garbage "worst film ever waste of time".
Like seriously, did I watch the same movie? Sure some things were predictable, but how is that bad?

Sometimes I get the impression that people are missing the point and looking for some deeper meaning.
Star Wars is SUPPOSED to be a mythological type story of good v evil, full of tropes and archetypes. And space magic. Mostly for kids. Enjoy it for what it is and stop expecting Shakespeare.

-


There's a pretty cavernous gap between "having some standards" and "expecting Shakespeare" man. And this "hurr durr s'for kids innit" line is getting really tiresome - do kids not deserve quality stories, well told? And just because a story is simple does not mean it cannot also have deeper meaning, as evidenced by, you know, Star Wars; the OT films were not complicated or intricate or "artsy", but there were themes and (very slightly)subtext beyond the surface level, that's why they're classics and people still enjoy watching them today.

Everything I'm hearing points to this being a standard issue JJ movie, but with all his usual problems(Ludicrous Speed pacing, everything except the big setpieces feeling like they were half-arsed chores that he just wanted out of the way so he could get to said setpieces, moments that are supposed to be emotional instead either come off as unearned or cloying, or else are neutered by the amphetamine-fuelled plotting speeding past without giving them room to breathe) turned up to eleven because he's trying to tell the story of two movies at once thanks to TLJ. Nothing in that says you're not allowed to enjoy the result, but neither does that enjoyment require you to defend or excuse the flaws with trite "pfff, it's just fiction bruh, stop taking stuff so seeeeeeeeeerious" nonsense.

I need to acquire plastic Skavenslaves, can you help?
I have a blog now, evidently. Featuring the Alternative Mordheim Model Megalist.

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-----
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Made in us
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver





4th Obelisk On The Right

I would agree as far as story goes that kids movie doesn't mean dumb movie. Endgame wasn't really all that complex but it was good (at least to me), Pixar makes movies primarily for kids but they are emotionally complex.

I've personally never found any Stars Wars movie to be great. I've found pretty much all of them fun and worth their time but never great. So RoS being kind of highlight reel of Star Wars was pretty acceptable.

I personally think the "final" trilogy for the Skywalker saga was something that had to be made in order for something new to be done with the IP. So hopefully something new gets done now.

Darth Revan needs his/her movie.....

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/21 15:26:03


 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Dallas area, TX

I do like the juxtapose of the messages between TLJ and RoS.
TLJ seemed to claim that even a nobody can be important
While RoS seems to claim that it doesn't matter where you come from, you can choose your path.

Both messages are good, but I think RoS is better/more powerful

And side note, rather saying Star Wars are kids movies, I should have said they are meant to be easily understood by kids. So archetypes are rarely overly complex. Some people might claim that to be lazy but I find it a good way to be timeless.

   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Chief Deputy Sub Assistant Trainee Squig Handling Intern






One other bug bear?

Spoiler:
This is more to do with my experience in X-Wing and the frankly superb Rogue Squadron series of games.

When Rey is piloting Luke’s X-Wing to go stab up Palpatine? Her S-Foils are deployed.

Also, Ben Solo ( for that is who arrives at that point) found a TIE in decent condition. Though it’s my understanding pre-First Order TIE’s didn’t have hyperdrive. If they’d just made it a TIE Defender, I’d have been stupid excite.

But minor issues. Nothing the average cinema goer is gonna know nor care about

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Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





The idea that a film for kids can't also be meaningful and have themes beyond "red light = bad" is opposed by plenty of amazing media for kids that transcend beyond "it's for kids".


They/them

 
   
Made in us
Stubborn Hammerer





 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Only thing I found a bit disappointing?

Spoiler:
The final battle. It was really cool and tense up until Lando arrived with hundreds, if not thousands of reinforcements.

Then we, well, I, didn’t get to see enough of that brawl. And I’d have liked more screen time for the gathered fleet, so I could see what ships are there.

Also glad my suspicion was correct and the threat of ‘Action 3PO’ was a deliberate misdirection.


The only thing I find disappointing about this post is I still don't understand what a petal is, or why you would call me one.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




I saw it yesterday, loved it. It did feel like a lot was shoved in due to 'issues' with the previous movie and i would have liked slightly longer runtime and more focus on some things, but it was really enjoyable. Its the first movie of the sequel trilogy I want to see again to take in more details.

I'm still a bit annoyed though with the general story direction they took with the sequels. I (like i think many others did) would have liked to see more jedi knights about, rather than having lukes jedi order ending in failure, and also would have liked to have seen more on the Republic and not have it swept away with one superweapon shot mid-first movie!
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba




The Great State of New Jersey

What exactly is wrong with fan service? People who’ve followed the respective series through thick and thin getting a cinematic thank-you for ultimately making it all possible?


Fan service is more or less the idea that a narrative is being derailed or interrupted explicitly and solely for the purpose of doing something that serves no real narrative purpose or is otherwise forced in in order to please fans. It speaks to a fundamental lack of artistic integrity as its a conscious decision to do something not because the story calls for it but because it will generate an artificial emotional response in the audience. A well written and made narrative/story has no need for fan service, because the natural development and conclusion of the narrative will be in and of itself satisfying without the introduction of outside elements designed to elicit that response.

SamusDrake wrote:
My hat off to JJ for not falling into the same trap as he did with The Force Awakens which was remaking A New Hope.



Did you miss that its a remake of Return of the Jedi? No, its not a shot for shot remake like The Force Awakens was, and thats good (really good actually, parts of this film are perhaps the most compelling and high concept we've ever seen from Star Wars), but the part that matters most - the ending - is the same ending (in the meta sense at least) is the same ending we already had in Return of the Jedi.

Otherwise, a good star wars movie and end to the saga itself.


The Saga didn't need an ending, it already had one in Return of the Jedi. There really wasn't any further story that explicitly needed to be told in the saga, and The Force Awakens only (weakly) enabled a story in the sequel trilogy by ignoring narrative and character development from the Original and Prequel Trilogy, seemingly for the sole purpose of allowing the sequel trilogy to attain the ending that we *thought* we already had in Return of the Jedi.

Spoiler:
-The Rise of Skywalker gives us the same conclusion we alrady had in Return of the Jedi - the (same exact) evil Emperor and his dark cult is overthrown and killed (again), his evil Empire is militarily defeated (if not outright destroyed), the young Jedi disciple overcomes their inner demons to become a true Jedi Knight destined to train the next generation of new, presumably better, Jedi, and a new era of peace and prosperity is ushered in. Sure there are minor details that are different, particularly in terms of who that Jedi is, etc. but in the grand scheme of things those small details are ultimately irrelvant in the narrative sense. The Force Awakens reversed the character development and narrative progress made in Return of the Jedi seemingly so that The Rise of Skywalker could give us the same ending with different new and improved Disney-approved characters instead. We spent 5 years and 3 films essentially watching the narrative travel in a big circle to end up right back in the same status quo we had following the release of The Return of the Jedi in 1983. This is not the "satisfying conclusion to the Skywalker Saga" that was being advertised - the Skywalker Saga didn't need a satisfying conclusion because it already had that in Return of the Jedi that wrapped up everything that needed to be wrapped up from the previous 5 films (even if 3 of those films weren't made until years later) - instead this is the third film in a trilogy that served only to act as a soft reboot of the setting and the narrative. There will no doubt be sequels to this movie, perhaps they will not receive the honor of an episodic title, or maybe they will, but I have no doubt we will see many more EU/Legends stories brought forward and reimagined with Finn, Rey, Poe and others filling the same roles that Luke, Han, and Leia once did.

-On that note, I'm not sure that I can find anything satisfying about the implications involved in having a descendant of Sheev Palpatine outlive the Skywalker bloodline, even if she does take up their name and renounce her heritage. This is the "Doesn't matter, had sex" victory of the Star Wars saga, and Palpatine is exactly the kind of guy who would get his jollies knowing that the Skywalkers went extinct while his own bloodline gets to continue on, even if his granddaughter does pretend that he doesn't exist. To me, thats unsatisfying.

-The Rise of Skywalker solidifies Rey as a textbook "Mary Sue", not because shes "too powerful", not because she "never fails", but because she gets to do all the cool things, have all the cool character traits, possess all the cool gear and equipment, have the cool backstory, have all the coolest friends, have the cool legacy, etc. Just off the top of my head, she gets to keep the Millennium Falcon, she inherits Luke and Leias lightsabers (plus builds her own), she gets BB-8 from Poe apparently, presumably she also inherits R2 and C-3PO, she gets to fly Lukes X-Wing, she gets to kill Palpatine (for real this time, sorry Anakin), she's descended *from* Palpatine so she gets to claim descent from one of the most powerful and most evil force users in history while being an absolute good-hearted hero herself, she's apparently a second Chosen One, she gets to re-establish the Jedi Order and train the next generation of better Jedi, etc. In the process she completely upstages the protagonists of the previous two trilogies by accomplishing what they did not or could not (and in many cases, accomplishing what we thought they had accomplished but surprisingly found out that they didn't). Rey is basically the character that I - and every other kid on the block - pretended to be when we were kids playing pretend or writing our gakky fanfic, the character that is equal parts Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, Princess Leia, Lando Calrissian, etc, the character that gets mentored by your heroes and is best friends with them and wins their admiration and respsect. She is the ultimate wish-fulfillment character, and literally everything that Paula Smith railed against when she created the concept of Mary Sue. An important distinction needs to be made here - this is not the characters fault, its the writers.

-Palpatines return is out of left field - there is no real hint, lead-up, or build-up to it in the previous two films (mainly because, per JJs own admission, they didn't entirely figure that part out until later), or for that matter any of the other films beforehand. Thats not to say it doesn't work (actually I found the Palpatine segments to be the most compelling, dark, and sinister looks at the setting thus far in the franchise - if JJ/RJ had given us this from the get-go then I think this would have made for a masterwork trilogy that would have been far less divisive and far more intereting than the one we received), but it needed more of a connection than just repeating the "The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural..." quote from Revenge of the Sith. Its actually ironic that this is the path they chose to go down considering Kathleen Kennedy tried to tell us that they didn't have any source material to work from, its a riff on a classic EU/Legends narrative, one which many EU fans explicitly hated and were glad to see gone.

From a narrative standpoint, Palpatines return has many problems. At the time those EU novels were published, before the prequels and the introduction of Anakin Skywalkers character arc, the Chosen One prophecy, and the idea of his redemption, etc. bringing Palpatine back made some sense, it was actually an idea spawned from George Lucas's own notes and outline for one of the possible story arcs for the sequel trilogy (say what you will about The Maker, but I owe the man much of my childhood and early youth. Maintaining the integrity of his vision will always be of paramount importance to me and one of the key measures of the quality of any narrative for me), and would have served as a reasonable continuation of Lukes own character arc - some people like to dispute this, as overcoming his inner darkness was a key part of the his character arc in the OT, however his temporary fall to the dark side in the EU was a result of his hubris, he intentionally chose to serve the Clone Emperor thinking that he could remain pure and destroy the dark side from within, but was overcome by it regardless because its corrupting influence was more than what he was able to handle. In any case, after the prequel trilogy, a "return of Palpatine" arc becomes problematic as Anakin is the Chosen One who restored balance by killing Palpatine (and in turn Lukes narrative arc also takes on slightly different importance, as his overcoming his inner darkness becomes Anakins legacy in atonement for "the sins of the father" - that isn't entirely relevant to *this* film, but it is relevant to other films in the trilogy).

Beyond that, the decision to bring Palpatine back also has implications for the prequels - it was long understod that Palpatine was using the story of Darth Plagueis as bait to lure Anakin to the dark side with the promise that he would be able to save others, specifically Padme, from death. It was also long understood that on some level, it was a lie. Palpatine tells Anakin, "Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, then his apprentice killed him in his sleep." - the apprentice, of course, is Palpatine himself (confirmed within canon) - but later on he tells him "To cheat death is a power only one has achieved, but if we work together, I know we can discover the secret." Clearly both statements cannot be true, which means one of them is a lie, and it has been long understood that the lie was that Sidious did *not* know how to cheat death (and there is a possible argument that Plagueis was likewise unable to do so, hence why Sidious was able to kill him), which is why he needed Anakin in the first place - as he was basically force-jesus, he would be able to accomplish what Sidious could not. Anakins defeat at the hands of Obi-Wan robbed Palpatine of this asset, as Vader would never be as strong in the force as he was before, which is why Palpatine needed to turn Luke to the dark side as Vaders replacement - Luke was strong enough to accomplish what Vader could not, but Luke never turned, so Palpatine would have been completely denied the means to achieve his goal.

Bringing Palpatine back from the dead, therefore, continues the complaint that many fans (myself included) had in that the sequel films (primarily The Force Awakens, but also The Rise of Skywalker) do not honor or respect the legacy of the original and prequel trilogies by reversing or ignring both plot/narrative and character development. I suspect the reason George didn't appear at the Rise of Skywalker premier is precisely because Palpatine was brought back in the film, which was something we know George was vehemently against per his own statements. Ian Mcdiarmid has also mentioned in interviews that he approached George on the subject on at least one occasion, and he wouldn't even entertain the topic, saying Palpatine was very very dead and would not be coming back. Thus, my take on it is that any restoration of Palpatine is, in essence, a direct violation of the established narrative and weakens (if not outright destroys) the significance of many of the events in the previous two trilogies.

-By extension, in some ways the events of The Rise of Skywalker has implications for Anakins story - I'm still not sure if those implications are good or bad, but in essence Ben giving his life force over to her to bring her back from the dead raises some questions about Anakin's own fall to the dark side. Is it made more tragic, because he didn't have to slaughter a temple full of younglings to save Padme if he was willing to make the ultimate sacrifice for her instead? Or is it made pointless, because as it turns out Sidious was wrong and any Jedi could gain the knowledge to save the ones he loves from dying without turning to the dark side?

​-As a quick aside, it really sucks for Qui-Gon that Obi-Wan apparently didnt know how to use the force to heal people.

-The film also continues JJ Abrams "shrinking" of the Star Wars galaxy through his abuses of hyperspace (sidenote: a "People for the Ethical Treatment of Hyperspace" type meme campaign might be fun). Early on in A New Hope we are told "Traveling through hyperspace isn't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?" Early on in The Rise of Skywalker we are treated to the concept of "hyperspace-skipping" which is basically just random jumps in random directions for random distances, which sees the Falcon hop through a bunch of random environments, often in far-too-close proximity to something that should destroy them. For a long time one of the tents of hyperspace travel was that you can't jump too close to a planet because it casts a "mass shadow" into hyperspace which will cause a hyperspace collision destroying one or both objects. this is still suppsed to be technically true in canon (and was in fact a rule established by George Lucas early on because he realized that it would lead to a potential can of worms in the narrative sense to allow it to be used freely from anywhere at any time), yet JJ Abrams continues to ignore it. What then, was the point of running the Trade Federation blockade in The Phantom Menace if Amidala and co could have jumped to lightspeed from Naboos atmosphere? What was the point of those Rebel Transports having to risk destruction by Star Destroyers while escaping from Hoth if they could have just jumped from Hoths atmosphere? What was the point of the countless other canonical intances where a ship has to run the gauntlet through space to make it to or from a planet while under fire when they could just as easily jump to/from a planets atmosphere. Everyone complains about The Holdo Maneuver from TLJ making other stories problematic (which JJ Abrams thankfully addresses in TROS with a "Thats a one in one million probability of success" throwaway line), maybe they should be complaining about this one too.

-That being said, everything about the Emperor and Exogol was amazing both visually and thematically. I hate that the Emperors reanimation presents a narrative challenge to the rest of the saga (maybe it would have worked better if it was Plagueis?), and I hate that it was a last minute insert into the trilogy. If only this is what they had lead off with in The Force Awakens. I definitely wanted to explore this planet and the idea of a broken Sith corpse on alchemical life support further.

-The main duel on the Death Star ruins is incredible. Its the most realistic sword fight in the entire franchise, lacking the flashiness and unnecessary embellishment of the prequel duels, and instead opting for the slower paced battles of the original trilogy, with better choreography and better trained actors in an incredible snd dramatic environment.


For example, we were expecting to see the 2nd Death Star to start flying around the galaxy wiping out crusiers and planets, but instead it serves a different purpose.


Spoiler:
Thats exactly what we got though. Instead of one really big ship though we get hundreds (if not thousands) of smaller ones (fun fact, they are "Xyston-class Star Destroyers, that look almost exactly like Imperial I-class Star Destroyers but are about 800 meters longer) capable of doing the same thing. Its basically the distributed/cloud computing equivalent of the Death Star.


After watching this film I felt JJ Abrams did what he had to do to fix the horror of Episode 8.


Funny, watching The Last Jedi I felt like Rian Johnson did what he had to do to fix the horror of Episode 7.Even if The Last Jedi sucked, its a shame that the direction he took the narrative didn't stick, it would have been way more interesting if JJ Abrams had concluded *that* film instead of his gakky OT reboot.

JJ also answers the key questions he posed for Episode 7 that Ep 8 ignores/changed.


Episode 8 did answer them. Per JJ Abrams own admission he didnt have a strong sense of where the story was going to go at the time he wrote and filmed The Force Awakens. He literally threw out a bunch of mystery boxes for the sole purpose of someone else answering them. Rian Johnson was smart not to have them open up to reveal the obvious answers that fans expected - it would have been a gakky movie and everyone would have hated it anyway (because the truth is people don't know what they want, and what they think they want is often not what they actually want), unfortunately this fanbase spent too much time drinking its own gakky-fan-theory-kool-aid and was disappointed when their expectations didn't match reality.

Togusa - a lot of your criticisms are explained in the film or elsewhere -
Spoiler:
First Order TIE fighters have had hyperdrives since The Force Awakens, non-film canon makes it clear that this was because The First Order identified it as a military shortcoming of The Empire.
The planet the Death Star wreckage ends up on is in the Endor system (this is explained in the film), its one of the other 9 or 10 moons around the gas giant Endor, makes perfect sense in that case that wreckage and debris would have ended up there - while the piece of the Death Star that ended up on the planet was by my estimation far too large, the station was far from "vaporized". And Kylo absolutely was beating Rey in that duel, he forced her saber down to the ground with his on top, she was in the position of weakness and at that point in the film I was like "how the feth does he not end up killing Rey right here, right now" - thats when Leia comes in and he drops his guard and she gets up and stabs him. Its actually, in my opinion, the best and most realistic lightsaber duel in the entire saga.


Earlier I defended Kennedy for her role as a producer for the series, well now I have to take back much of what I said. Before I was under impression that there was some kind of overall plot arch for the series and Kennedy was only letting different directors have a go with it. But now it is obvious that they never made any kind of plot outline for the trilogy, Kennedy literally just hired different directors to write and direct a Star Wars movie and did nothing to coordinate the whole thing. Basically she was 'producing' the series in same way Mr Burns was 'coaching' his baseball team. "Hey you, go hit a home run!". It is true that Lucas made lots of stuff up as he went along and improvised a lot, however he did have overall vision in his mind all the time. KK never had anything like that, he just hired JJA for the series because he had done such a bang-up job with Star Trek Also, given how much RoS ripped off from EU stories, particularly Dark Empire, so much for "not having any source material" for the new movie!


This. The other possibility is that there was a plan, which Rian faithfully executed on, but the backlash resulted in them scrapping those plans and changing them to deliver something seemingly more palatable.

lacking the extra expenses of reshoots Solo brought to the bottom line.


The Rise of Skywalker also had reshoots.

But the profits will not be what Disney was hoping for when they coughed up several BILLION dollars for the property.


Eh, the purchase has already paid for itself. Disney paid $4.05 billion, between Solo, Rogue One, The Force Awakens, and The Last Jedi they have made $4.8 billion. The Rise of Skywalker is going to more than pay for itself (as have all the films), even if it "flops", so at this point it doesn't really matter because TRoS will push it even further into the black.

It feels like when they made her character they wanted a mystery but didn't have a resolution for it and realized at the last minute they needed an answer and were like "oh I guess it is Palpatine?"


They did have an answer to it - she was descended from nobody important. I don't understand the fanbases insistence that the characters relationships must be incestuous (not in the literal sense, but in the sense that outside characters not related to the established characters within the setting cannot be introduced), you may have not liked it, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't there.

Sgt_Smudge:
Spoiler:
He said something along the lines of "Rey, restore the balance, like I did!"

But... Palpatine's alive, with a seemingly BIGGER armada all armed with mini-Death Star lasers, and everything achieved by Anakin's sacrifice led to absolutely nothing, beyond bringing Han and Leia together, inspiring their son to commit mass atrocities in his name, and later have a change of heart. What balance did he restore, exactly?


"The prophecy never said that the balance would be restored permanently, herp derp" seems to be the general response from its defenders.

Disney should now move forward with making their own story. What that is? No idea.


Given the way things go in TRoS, Im betting that the stories moving forward are going to look a lot like the old EU stories that Disney binned (and totally didn't crib from with TRoS, because yknow according to Kathleen Kennedy there wasn't any source material to work from for this movie...), just replace Han/Luke/Leia with the new younger cast of this trilogy. In terms of the broader setting, its now in the same place that it was when Return of the Jedi ended, so plenty of room for stories about rogue First Order warlords, dark side cults, establishing a new Republic, etc.

TLJ seemed to claim that even a nobody can be important
While RoS seems to claim that it doesn't matter where you come from, you can choose your path.

Both messages are good, but I think RoS is better/more powerful


Maybe I'm being cynical, but ROS message seems to be more than you can choose your own path as long as you're important enough for it to matter.

CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
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*double post, delete*

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/21 18:54:14


CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
 
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