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Or like our group, we like MKIII and have no interest in the MK IV rules changes or esthetics changes so we will just use our large collections to continue playing MK III.

I thought the obsession in this thread about 3d print quality was far less important than a discussion of the beta rules.

I hope this reset helps the company, any competition to GW is fine by me, however, exactly like i feel about 9th ed 40K, MKIV is not the kind of game i am interested in, they are removing things i like about the game and adding things i hate about other game systems. i am fine playing an older edition.

 Waaagh_Gonads wrote:


I have large armies of COC, Grymkin, Cygnar, Skorne, Menoth and Circle.

My Cygnar and Circle are going to do some heavy lifting at Counts-As's, at least for a while.

Wonder will tournaments adopt prime only or go for unlimited

Why not both? Some may go one way and others another. Let economics determine the winner.

tneva82 wrote:
Wonder will tournaments adopt prime only or go for unlimited

Depends on what turny it is and how tied with PP the turny is.

" While we will hold Unlimited arena events in the future and support this mode of play, it won’t be the competitive arena because, as we’ve established, the back catalog of models is unmanageably large and every new addition makes it less viable to balance for competitive play. "

So clubs who has no partnership with PP or dont run PP events will run local turnys in prolly both settings, or only Unlimited if they have lots of members with mk1-mk3 models. My guess is that big events like Steamroller might only do Primal, but that is something they have to comment on their own.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Why not both?

Because there aren't enough players left?

Could see non-official ones run unlimited to keep old players. Lot depend on how much old models get legended and how players react to it.

Yeah, it will depend on whether factions have their Legacy armies playable or if Prime tournaments will effectively be just Cygnar or Khador affairs. A bit like WFB 7th ed where, unless you played Demons or Vampure Counts, there was little reason to participate in non-comped events.

Played a 50 beta game last night and overall pretty happy with the results. Ended up proxying my Khador as Menoth against an opponent proxying some Circle/Ret as Cryx:



Overall.... it works. It's definitely Warmachine and it plays a little quicker with more manageable army sizes. How much quicker remains to be seen. We kind of had an audience and spent a lot of time talking through rules changes and seeing what we could exploit with the new units.

For the most part, units worked pretty well. They still effectively tie things up, in some ways better than before, but its more of a cloud of area control than the lines of previous editions. In multiple instances though the existence of a couple models stopped an effective charge on my backline and screening jacks was as important as its always been.

I think the thing I noticed most was that there is a lot more back and forth. Wiping something out entirely didn't happen very often, so effects like Bane regeneration mattered more, and there were more instances of things taking some damage and getting a turn to respond before being finished off.

The back and forth actually makes the extra threat on ranged units less powerful than I expected. You still need to end your movement in retaliation for the most part, so its mostly that you get to attack first which was always the case. I do think that more terrain is likely in order. I intentionally put a lot of rough terrain in the middle and while it was impactful, it didn't cripple things like it did in previous editions. Dare say it, I actually kind of want to try a game with some GW forests to see if things that big work with the new rules.

Game ended very close. I won on scenario with just my caster alive at the end of turn 7. Overall it was a lot of fun, though I'm eager to try it again with a mindset of playing a game rather than focusing on seeing what mechanics could be exploited.



Pretty excited to pick up a new battlegroup and see the models for myself. I'm sure there's a lot to iron out but I'm pretty happy with what I played.

Schmapdi wrote:

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 Monkeysloth wrote:
The recent primecast listed out what legacy armies would get ported over to MK4. This list is from Reddit.

Mercenaries will have four seperate prime armies: Steelheads, Talion Charter, Rhul, Cephalyx

No Llaelese Resistance? Boooo

They only ever had like- 2-3 models for it? Kinda hard to make that into a standalone army. Maybe they'll flesh it out as a new army now. It seems like this new system will encourage them to produce a lot of one-off smaller factions rather than worrying about pumping out constant releases for the big 4 factions.

I just can't see which faction/army Ashlynn will be part of now. She wasn't part of any of those mercenary charters listed there.

 Shakalooloo wrote:

I just can't see which faction/army Ashlynn will be part of now. She wasn't part of any of those mercenary charters listed there.

She may not be in Prime at all and may end up as an unlimited mode only model.

@LunarSol. Thanks for the report. That does sound promising.

tneva82 wrote:
@LunarSol. Thanks for the report. That does sound promising.

Glad to answer any questions! Definitely been rolling the game in my mind. Made the decision to buy a preview battle box today a lot easier.

Jerram wrote:

 Shakalooloo wrote:

I just can't see which faction/army Ashlynn will be part of now. She wasn't part of any of those mercenary charters listed there.

She may not be in Prime at all and may end up as an unlimited mode only model.

They said Unlimited will have rules for unthemed armies, so its entirely possible she ends up there. Llael ended up in such a weird place in mk3 both in a gameplay and fluff sense. They've got some models, including a brand new version of Ashlynn herself, but the army itself is mostly just a weird collection of a few character solos that depends on importing units from other factions and has no real units of its own. If I was to do anything with her, I'd probably port her and the Thorn Gun Mages over to Crucible Guard.

 LunarSol wrote:

Jerram wrote:

 Shakalooloo wrote:

I just can't see which faction/army Ashlynn will be part of now. She wasn't part of any of those mercenary charters listed there.

She may not be in Prime at all and may end up as an unlimited mode only model.

They said Unlimited will have rules for unthemed armies, so its entirely possible she ends up there. Llael ended up in such a weird place in mk3 both in a gameplay and fluff sense. They've got some models, including a brand new version of Ashlynn herself, but the army itself is mostly just a weird collection of a few character solos that depends on importing units from other factions and has no real units of its own. If I was to do anything with her, I'd probably port her and the Thorn Gun Mages over to Crucible Guard.

Not just possible, she will be there, everyone will be there. The question is whether or not she has a prime role. Yeah given the current lore I could see her and the gun mages and maybe Taryn becoming a CG cadre.

Jerram wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

Jerram wrote:

 Shakalooloo wrote:

I just can't see which faction/army Ashlynn will be part of now. She wasn't part of any of those mercenary charters listed there.

She may not be in Prime at all and may end up as an unlimited mode only model.

They said Unlimited will have rules for unthemed armies, so its entirely possible she ends up there. Llael ended up in such a weird place in mk3 both in a gameplay and fluff sense. They've got some models, including a brand new version of Ashlynn herself, but the army itself is mostly just a weird collection of a few character solos that depends on importing units from other factions and has no real units of its own. If I was to do anything with her, I'd probably port her and the Thorn Gun Mages over to Crucible Guard.

Not just possible, she will be there, everyone will be there. The question is whether or not she has a prime role. Yeah given the current lore I could see her and the gun mages and maybe Taryn becoming a CG cadre.

What I mean is that there are going to be armies for Unlimited that aren't Prime, but still basically theme forces. Iron Fangs being the obvious example in my mind. I'm curious if there's just no Unlimited Llael and she just gets left as a loose option.

Can't believe colossals and battle engines aren't gonna have rules day one. Seems like a slap in the face to people that paid all that money.

It's a bold move porting your biggest, most expensive models over last, which is what it sounds like will happen. Those models are the whole reason I like WMH the first time around. Telling me I might get to use them at some undefined date in the future is not encouraging me to spend $200 starting this game.

As a huge base aficionado… I kind of understand. I love love love them, but they were also a big part of what bloated the game in mk2 and with as scaled back as mk4 is looking to be, I think it’s for the best. I think they’ll work better if they’re redesigned once there’s been time to see how the rest of the changes play out.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Can't believe colossals and battle engines aren't gonna have rules day one. Seems like a slap in the face to people that paid all that money.

The main focus for MkIV is on the 'Primal' lists, and it seems unlikely that those will include Colossals given the switch to 3D printing.

 insaniak wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Can't believe colossals and battle engines aren't gonna have rules day one. Seems like a slap in the face to people that paid all that money.

The main focus for MkIV is on the 'Primal' lists, and it seems unlikely that those will include Colossals given the switch to 3D printing.

Except there are old models in prime lists. 2 per factions. It feels odd not to have colossal in at least one.

That's very expensive model people are told are worthless now.

Part of the reasons they delayed working on Colossals unti later in the schedule is that they're restricted to 100 point games. This new edition is focused on bringing new players into the game.

That advocating aside... they should have had this setup for much longer time than this. People were clamoring for this for a long, long time, and it's their problem if they took too long to listen.

tneva82 wrote:
Except there are old models in prime lists. 2 per factions. It feels odd not to have colossal in at least one.

That's very expensive model people are told are worthless now.

Sure... But if old models are included in Prime lists, they're presumably going to need to be models that people will still be able to buy. So models that PP will still be able to produce with their printers when existing cast stocks run out. And I can't see that being economically viable for the colossals.

In the meantime, the models aren't 'worthless' ... you can still use them in whatever version of the rules you were previously using them in, and they'll (allegedly) get Unlimited rules at some point in the future. I don't see that their individual price point should make them more of a priority than the masses of other models that people have in their collections.

And they can keep producing other pre-iv models but not colossals then?

And legends rasely viable option. Is there game whese legends actually viable and not just abandoned.

Ask 40k players how often they get to use their legend models. Might just as well not have rules.

tneva82 wrote:
And they can keep producing other pre-iv models but not colossals then?
.

They can potentially keep producing any existing models that were digitally sculpted. I have no idea if that would include the Colossals or not. But their 3D printing strategy seems to be revolving auround making the models as simple as possible. Colossals are large, complex models with multiple parts, and would, I suspect, wind up being inordinately costly in both materials and printer time.

Colossals are expensive and a centrepiece for sure but I dont see why would they be any different to the guy who has loads of infantry armies that are also discontinued.

At the end of the day the majority of the old range is going to be discontinued... Which sucks.

Unlike Warhammer old hammer collectors that can find a market of minis still alive etc I think warmachine minis will just vanish for good after stock is depleted.

So they finally pulled the pin on the Orgoth showing up. That only leaves Ord remaining of the nations without a faction/force in the game.

 Shakalooloo wrote:

I just can't see which faction/army Ashlynn will be part of now. She wasn't part of any of those mercenary charters listed there.

Unlimited, of course,but in the lore, Ashlynn is now a centrally placed military commander in Llael. Llael is in a dynastic alliance with Ord. So we might see her in a brand new future faction as well.

I think PP said in their latest Orimecast that they won’t be making any more of the existing models. Once their current stock is empty they won’t be available.

Just noticed starter sets on preorders announced on one store

Retail price £174.99 but online store has it at £148.75

I guess that's maybe to make up for a lack of free shipping (at least for the US customers)?

but it's still not going to encourage other stores to stock this if they're 'officially' undercut by the PP store